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[qa_engineer]

some devs don't want it or care either way. Some consumers don't want it, some do, some care, some don't, and some can't afford it. What are you doing Sony (and every other consumer electronics company)?

Fixed it for you

 

[Darryl M R]

His source was probably CliffyB who knows all developers and their opinions about everything.

But I don't see how third party devs would care when they are use to dealing with different systems?

It seems like it would be first party and I don't know why Cliffy would be talking with first party studios in Sony.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Apparently

What specifically is beong forced?

For all we know you buold games the same and submit. Adding Neo features is optional

Yes you have to submit the Neo profile but you could opt to just subit the same code as the Ps4 version

 

[davepoobond]

I'm not liking the move Sony. By the time it's out it will only be 3 or so years before the PS5 is released. Why not just wait? Or will this delay the release of the PS5? If so, fuck Sony.

Why do you think there needs to be a PS5 in this situation?


And this should be good for people who actually want guaranteed backwards compatibility. Do iphone 5s become unusable when the iPhone 7 is released? No they are still supported. They don't even call it an iPhone 7. They call it iphone SE

 

[MisterR]

Yep same here. Either they want one (enthusiasts) or don't care (play mostly on other plattforms). Nobody I know is angry ... But GAF is raging like always

Yep. Your average consumer will continue buying the cheaper PS4, as it plenty good for them. The enthusiast will trade in their PS4's for Neo and nobody outside gaming message boards is outraged.

 

[Jennipeg]

Has anyone here actually listened to the latest Gamescast, Colin spends the entire time overreacting, complaining, and failing to see how this could benefit anyone. His primary reason for concern: old PS4 owners insecurity complexes.

I really enjoy the guys and their commentary but this is one of those times where I have to cringe a little.

Listening to Colin talking about it, made me agree with Greg, I really don't care. I don't care if someone has a better PS4 than me, I don't want to buy the new one. I'm an early adopter too, Colin seems to be getting enraged on my behalf. I'm a big fan of both of them, but i'm not agreeing with Colin on this one.

 

[Kralamoonard]

Just going to repost what someone said in another thread -- he raises an interesting point.

I think some people get developers and publishers mixed up often - that is, I think there might be cases where a publisher is super excited for new hardware so they can push their games - but a developer who's actually coding the game might be groaning about the extra headaches/time/costs to get that game working on the two iterative consoles (OG PS4 and PS4K).

 

[Bl4ckSunsh1n3]

you should see the other threads.

apparently all coding is done using high level playstation apis where you just pass your "settings" and magically the game is optimized.
also I learnt that nobody writes hardware specific low level code(aka coding to metal) anymore. It's actually a myth they say, so I wonder what that makes me(most I do is low level stuff that often targets specific hardware)? a mythical programmer? ^_~
It wouldn't surprise me if these people think exclusives like uncharted 4 are made using ruby, javascript and the html 5 canvas tag.

We were able to do a FP 3D maze game using canvas and JS. It's close to Uncharted 4, isn't it?

Spoiler

SMDH

 

[michaelius]

Right I guess they must be new to whole innovative concept of varied graphic setting pc gamers use for last 30+ years.

Seriously just slap additional AA and AF level into game and let the better hardware remove any drops below 30 fps normal ps4 would have.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I googled that and all I got was brain freeze. What is the Ice Cream effect?

This:

This thread is this:

but full of people who want to do this:

 

[Resident_UA]

That'll have a different install base and won't be restrained by its previous console so no.

I really don't understand you logic. So a whole new system is not a problem to developers, but a slight update to the system they already working on is a huge problem? Do you even realize that NX install base will be significantly lower than PS4 for a long time?

 

[Ravidrath]

Seeing that the leak indicates that using Neo features is entirely optional, I'm not sure why devs would be against this. And since most console games now

While I'm sure a lot of Neo owners will try to pressure devs into patching old games or supporting it on future ones, no one has to do that.

But I'd also imagine some devs would be happy to if the process is simple enough. I could see CD Projekt Red happily supporting the Neo to get performance up, as well as Bethesda.

I guess our game might actually be able to run in 4K since it's primarily 2D, which is interesting. But otherwise most indie devs won't see a lot of benefit from this.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Colin admitted on PS I loveu that he could very well be on the wrong side of this argument

Hes just being raw and honest in public about his stance

I get it. Plenty of GAF feels the same even though i disagree with it entirely

I want this system

 

[Kralamoonard]

Right I guess they must be new to whole innovative concept of varied graphic setting pc gamers use for last 30+ years.

Seriously just slap additional AA and AF level into game and let the better hardware remove any drops below 30 fps normal ps4 would have.

Yeah because it's that easy /s

Tbf, it's all about how Song is going about it and whether they're providing any of their internal support for the devs.

 

[Vinc]

You don't say at your console launch btw guys in 3~4 years we'll have something better, please wait.

For what it is worth anyway, from October 2015 probably 1 year+ before this launches - http://ps4daily.com/2015/10/sony-is-considering-giving-ps4-a-performance-boost/

The rumours started a while back for a reason, Sony said they were considering it. I think that's a decent amount of a heads up to possibly expect something on the horizon.

Let's emphasize the "through software updates" in your link.

 

[GinoFelino]

Damned if they do (devs have to develop an additional version) and damned if they don't (devs have to downgrade their game more due to relatively underpowered tech).

I don't really see a problem here, anyway. It's more work, sure, but it's not like Sony is going to sell a slightly LESS powerful version. I'd understand why that'd be a hassle.

 

[Equanimity]

I am kind of baffled by how this thread is over 700 post long over a single tweet that has absolutely no confirmation. It's just hearsay.

 

[RazielCuts]

So who do we think will have consulted with more Devs over this? Sony or Colins source?

Colin's source that has multiple sources, it's like third/ fourth hand information at this point. 'I heard that someone else said that they didn't like it to my friends neighbours dog.' Sources on sauces. But I mean is anyone really surprised? Some developers are like yay for the bump, some are like nay for the possible extra work, this could literally be said about anything ever.

I heard from a reliable source that some people don't like Marmite.

Spoiler

And those people are heathens.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Just going to repost what someone said in another read -- he raises an interesting point.

I think some people get developers and publishers mixed up often - that is, I think there might be cases where a publisher is super excited for new hardware so they can push their games - but a developer who's actually coding the game might be groaning about the extra headaches/time/costs to get that game working on the two iterative consoles (OG PS4 and PS4K).

A decent publisher would increase the resources available to get the job done. And if an iterative console future means a better sustained and longer lasting business, and increases the installed base, opportunities to continue making games and staying employed grows. These are good things.

 

[Clockwork5]

I really don't understand you logic. So a whole new system is not a problem to developers, but a slight update to the system they already working on is a huge problem? Do you even realize that NX install base will be significantly lower than PS4 for a long time?

I think you mean forever.

 

[Wagram]

devs don't want it, consumers don't want it, what are you doing Sony ?

Uhh. I know of several people in reality that own a PS4 and want this. Don't speak for everyone.

 

[AstroNut325]

This:

Wow. That is on the money.

 

[Mooreberg]

The less happy developers are with it, the less worried customers will have to be about shitty ports on the regular hardware.

 

[Resident_UA]

I think you mean forever.

I'm trying to be objective here

 

[OneUh8]

Doesn't matter if you want to support it, you have to test on both. If you submit a game to Sony and it crashes on a PS Neo but runs perfectly on a PS4 they will still kick the game back to you and it will still cost $30,000 for each submission.

It cost $30k to submit a game to cert? holy shit. Is that less or more than Xbox? Seems insane to me. I thought the whole thing this gen was making it easier for devs to get their games on the platform and patches.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Sounds like a lot of work. As a consumer, and for Sony, i understand now there are reasons for making this thing, but its still going to be some work for devs regardless, over what they had to do previously. And if MS follows their lead, that's 4 SKU's to test...and then there's the developers who are still pushing PS3 and 360 as well nonsensically

I would expect most ports to neo to be basic upgrades to FPS and res just to make it as easy as possible

 

[family_guy]

That'll have a different install base and won't be restrained by its previous console so no.

Restrained how?

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Guys, its like 2006 all over again.

Ninja Theory is making a game with a red haired woman as the protagonist that will likely be there .
Final Fantasy is going to be there.
Gran Turismo is going to be there.
if Namco announces a new Ridge Racer I will prepare myself for the Giant Enemy Crab and 599$ .

 

[Deleted member 284]

+$20 for NEO Soul patch…

I'm sorry. I'll see my way out.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Let's emphasize the "through software updates" in your link.

Or we can ignore this...

Another thing that Ito said could be added in the future to the PS4 was Ultra HD Blu-ray, i.e. 4K Blu-ray. That would mean a new version of the PS4 console with updated Blu-ray hardware that play the new, high-density discs.

We’ll have to wait and see what the future holds. So far the PS4 has been a huge success for Sony, it’s unlikely that they will do anything drastic anytime soon.

 

[Vinc]

It's a statement I've made earlier in the thread as well, I'd really like to know who these devs are. When PS3 came out, Valve lashed out, we all knew it was Gabe, the Oddworld guys had some nasty things to say too, but guess what, Valve gave the PS3 the best versions of portal 1 and 2 on consoles. It's doubly hard for me to conceptualize the logic behind talk that "devs are not happy" because the NEO is clearly not exotic hardware, it's pretty much scaling your assets and code to take advantage of the beefier hardware or if you don't give a damn like these devs, just let the NEO brute force it, I guess in the end better NEO efforts will just outshine their offerings.

On the flip, when I hear devs cry because their games didn't do too well because of sloppy code or lacklustre efforts, I can't feel sorry for them either.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

[QaaQer]

I think sony is over estimating people's ability to understand the difference between optional iterative and new gen.

marketing will be earning their money, good luck greg twoface.

 

[Resident_UA]

Doesn't matter if you want to support it, you have to test on both. If you submit a game to Sony and it crashes on a PS Neo but runs perfectly on a PS4 they will still kick the game back to you and it will still cost $30,000 for each submission.

Judging by the crap that was released over the past 2 years I think they might as well increase the price of submission. If Fallout 4 was allowed to release in the shape it came out (yes, I'm going to keep mentioning this) I think any game will not have an issue passing cert.

 

[Audioboxer]

Let's emphasize the "through software updates" in your link.

It's a Japanese translated article, but even if you stick it through Google Translate

Ito said:
　currently, corresponding policies for Ultra HD Blu-ray is of a currently under consideration.
　This is the only want to hear as a story of "For example," but (laughs), and the corresponding ways of setting the Ultra HD Blu-ray can be accommodated top model is considered.

　When it comes to the anxious, whether performance enhancement is carried out in the future of the PS4, as it is done, but the point of how done to go to. The author he forecasted that the "" PS4.1 "possibilities of the introduction of performance enhanced version of PS4 is" at the time of the 2013 ( related article , what is actually a wonder. Ito said: 　"Specifically, If you answer a thing in terms of was the prelude and I would like to be not ", greater than or equal to the adoption of the x86 architecture, and performance enhancement" is considered in the "necessary timing you do. in other words, the possibility there is that. thought rather I guess we must have. 　in PS3, unlike the original speculation, from the result, it has adopted the Cell architecture that generational change has become difficult, and say product variant, the "capacity amount of HDD" only it could not be deployed. However, if the PS4 which adopted the conventional x86 architecture, while inheriting the past of the game assets, it is easy to achieve flexible performance enhancement. 　but is, for example, Standard performance version of PS4 and high to provide a performance version of PS4 , the possibility of such variations deployment, is the idea that can be considered.

when the performance enhanced version "PS4.1" specific machine came out, was 30fps in the current PS4 ones might be able to play at 60fps. in terms of "PS4.1" specific machine has been enhanced performance, might be to be able to play in 4K native if corresponding to the HDMI 2.0. in addition, if in response to the HDMI 2.0a, that the patch that is provided, re-buy the remake like .HD Remastered that might be able to play the hand of the game in the HDR corresponding at full price not even, in is provided at a low cost "PS4.x corresponding patch", it may be way, such as can be upgraded to the evolution version of the better image representation will be provided.

Plz excuse Engrish, but this article was quoted all over the place last year.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

I'll hold judgement until actual developer commentary is made available.

Took me two pages but finally. I agree

 

[family_guy]

Why do you think there needs to be a PS5 in this situation?


And this should be good for people who actually want guaranteed backwards compatibility. Do iphone 5s become unusable when the iPhone 7 is released? No they are still supported. They don't even call it an iPhone 7. They call it iphone SE

If anything it's better for developers financially not have to deal with the problems that come with developing for a new system that also has to build its consumer base.

 

[QaaQer]

I have a feeling that it's part of the long game for them if this is the first step towards a future where userbases are no longer fragmented with each new console release. The big win for them is no longer having to start from scratch with each "generation" in terms of user bases where games that are released early on in a cycle have lower sales potential.


.

Hope so. I never want to see a clean new/next gen break again.

 

[JordanN]

devs don't want it, consumers don't want it, what are you doing Sony ?

I do worry this has all the makings of a 32x.

The arguments for wanting a PS4k sound the same as Genesis

Consumer: "Hey SEGA, why is the Genesis so underpowered? Where's the polygons? Why does the Genesis have such a weak colors? Why are Arcade versions so much superior?"

SEGA:"Ok, here's an upgrade for it instead."

Consumers: Naw it sucks. Don't want it anymore."

Developers: Same, we don't need it either.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'll hold judgement until actual developer commentary is made available.

Took me two pages but finally. I agree

Yep, the most rational way to approach this.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Everyone loves it, everyone hates it. It's a big deal, it's not a big deal. Some devs are unhappy, some are happy, some people want one, some people don't want one. It's a good thing, it's a bad thing. Ice cream, popsicles.

I do worry this has all the makings of a 32x.

You should read more about it then. Not at all similar.

Yep, the most rational way to approach this.

This is no time to be rational!

 

[onQ123]

How many of these devs have even make a game using this method though?


they probably just don't like the idea of it & don't even know what it will take to put out a game that work on both consoles.

 

[MogCakes]

This:

Maybe they don't agree with the flavor!

 

[NHarmonic.]

Why should i pay another $400+ to play the best version of a game that's being released for a console so young in it's life-cycle?

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

The funniest thing about this, is that people have been complaining about wanting better graphics and framerates (60fps) from day one, now Sony are offering an option to solve that issue and people still complain lol.

It's not like it's a new idea either, PC components and Apple have been releasing new upgrades every 6-12 months for a long long time now and it works for them.

 

[Tagyhag]

We could ask this question instead.

Why would third party devs BE happy about the PS4.5?

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Or we can ignore this...

On top of that, while the documentation says that the hard drive will remain the same (Sony has several in circulation, so we assume it means 2.5-inch laptop drives generally) there are no indications of any changes to the Blu-ray drive.

In our original piece on PS4K, we suggested that Sony may be looking to add support for higher colour gamuts and high-dynamic range - part and parcel of the new UHD 4K spec and definitely supported in upcoming Radeon hardware from AMD. It is not mentioned at all in Sony's documentation, though the support should be there as the platform holder will be using AMD's display blocks. The omission says to us that it's simply not a priority at this time.

According to this, it doesn't seem like UHD is really the focus here. Of course, we'll learn more hopefully at this DevCon Sony is holding in May, but I'd hold off on using UHD as a justification for the PSNeo4K right now.

 

[Plinko]

I am kind of baffled by how this thread is over 700 post long over a single tweet that has absolutely no confirmation. It's just hearsay.

The original PS4K thread from OsirisBlack had his report only and ended being thousands of posts long. That's how these things work. Get a trusted source saying something and it catches fire.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Why should i pay another $400+ to play the best version of a game that's being released for a console so young in it's life-cycle?

If you don't think you should, then you shouldn't.

You're already not playing the best version of most games by being a console gamer.

 

[Audioboxer]

We could ask this question instead.

Why would third party devs BE happy about the PS4.5?

VR devs probably would, making their VR experiences closer to PC. Other devs, maybe if it helps a locked 30FPS, or locked 60FPS.

 

[CosmicQueso]

We could ask this question instead.

Why would third party devs BE happy about the PS4.5?

More sales, bigger audience, delayed move to PS5 and the increased development costs that go along with a new generation.