The Artisan
Member
yes it does.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Does a game with bad story but perfect gameplay deserve 10/10 Reviews?
- Thread starter Arnie7
- Start date
A game with a bad story can easily get a 10/10 in my book. That's what I'd give for Bayonetta 1 and 2 and their stories are terrible.
Granted I'm one of those people that doesn't think a 10/10 means a game is flawless, it should just mean that the game is a paragon of the genre. I mean, no game is really flawless, right?
Granted I'm one of those people that doesn't think a 10/10 means a game is flawless, it should just mean that the game is a paragon of the genre. I mean, no game is really flawless, right?
Devilgunman
Member
No. It doesn't. The meaning of 10/10 is defined differently by reviewers but none of them has ever categorized 10/10 as a perfect game because there is no such thing. From IGN, for example
http://www.ign.com/wikis/ign/Game_Reviews
That's why games with bad story can still get 10/10 if they do other aspect so well because the game doesn't have to be perfect to receive such praise.
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
Yes. The game sold 7+ million by the end of 2014 for its utter mediocrity. Those gamers and their low standards!
The Albatross
Member
Sure, if the other factors pick it up. For me, a 10/10 game doesn't have to be perfect in every way... Just means, this is the best example of a great game for this period.
GTAV, IMO, has a pretty lousy story, good voice acting, clever writing, but a lousy story. The gameplay is fine for an open world game but not stellar in any way. But, when you bring the open world, the variety of options, the freedom of the character, incredible detail, excellent immersion, great sound, impressive graphics, and all of those "Pretty good but not the best" mechanics together, it deserves a 10/10.
I would give Guacamelee! (STCE) a 10/10, but that game had zero voice acting, but a solid, overtly ridiculous story.
GTAV, IMO, has a pretty lousy story, good voice acting, clever writing, but a lousy story. The gameplay is fine for an open world game but not stellar in any way. But, when you bring the open world, the variety of options, the freedom of the character, incredible detail, excellent immersion, great sound, impressive graphics, and all of those "Pretty good but not the best" mechanics together, it deserves a 10/10.
I would give Guacamelee! (STCE) a 10/10, but that game had zero voice acting, but a solid, overtly ridiculous story.
MajinSweet4
Member
I find this inherently an odd question that seems to miss the point. Games don't need a story to begin with. Most Mario games for example don't really have a story. They simply give you objectives to give the adventure flavor. "A person was kidnapped and you need to save them" is a plot structure, not a story line in of itself. If you don't get what I mean, imagine the Taken movies, take out all the dialogue, all the plot points and all the characters except like 3. It's not exactly a story anymore. So I guess if you think a story is required for a game to get a perfect score, a traditional Mario game can never achieve that. No matter how good the platforming feels, or how expertly crafted the level design, or how perfect the challenge and difficulty curve is presented. Then you have to ask yourself, would an involved plot make a traditional Mario game better? Or does that type of game have a inherent "quality ceiling" that prevents it from reaching the highest level of greatness?
Bioshocker
Member
Some games doesn't need a good story to be amazing. Rayman Legends is one example.
The Artisan
Member
More_Badass
Member
Maybe it's because the ways reviews have been structured for years now, but I have some people tend to divide games into individual parts rather then judging it as a whole. Story in a game isn't just words characters say, or text boxes, item descriptions, and cutscenes. It's the character design, and the animations, and the design of the weapons, and what weapons are there, and the enemies, the pacing, the level design, the art style, the music and sound design, and so on
Story doesn't exist in a vacuum. Gameplay is part of the storytelling. All the different elements of a game coalesce to provide that experience.
Story doesn't exist in a vacuum. Gameplay is part of the storytelling. All the different elements of a game coalesce to provide that experience.
If the critic thinks it deserves 10/10, then it's a 10/10 for him and maybe he doesn't care much for the story. You can't define what's more important in a game because it varies between people - some may think a certain game with an awful story deserves 10/10 because it's the perfect game for them and the "bad" story doesn't affect the game for them at all.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Pretty much this. If the game isn't really meant to have a story, or a very minor story (Mario Galaxy for example) then it really shouldn't factor much into a final score. If it's something like Metal Gear or Final Fantasy where the story is an integral part of the game, then yes, it should be counted.
Bloodporne
Member
Depends completely on what the game sets out to be, do or say. It's the reviewer's job to kind of feel that out and judge it based on that in my opinion.
That's reviewers, my personal opinion differs greatly however. I've never been a fan of interactive movie games of the 90s and their seeming extension that is the 'walking simulator' genre. To me, it's almost the antithesis of videogaming and I just don't get it. That being said, it's a good fucking thing I'm not a reviewer ha.
That's reviewers, my personal opinion differs greatly however. I've never been a fan of interactive movie games of the 90s and their seeming extension that is the 'walking simulator' genre. To me, it's almost the antithesis of videogaming and I just don't get it. That being said, it's a good fucking thing I'm not a reviewer ha.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
Absolutely, why not? If the story takes up a lot of the experience and it's a bad story, then giving it a 10 might be a bad idea, but if it's not getting in the way of the gameplay or doesn't occupy too much of your time, then it could absolutely be good enough to get a 10.
I mean there's games that simply don't have or need any kind of story, and they should not be rated down because they lack one. Nobody thinks Tetris needs a plot. I think this is more about games that try to have a good story and fail at it.
MGS5 is a perfect example of people shitting on a game with amazing gameplay because they didn't like the story part. To me that's completely insane, but if it genuinely ruined your experience then I suppose it has to reflect your personal rating of the game. This is honestly a big reason why I put very little faith in review scores - even if I don't agree with it I recognize that many, if not most, other people prioritize story in games more than I do. Don't get me wrong, I like a good story in a game. It's just that bad mechanics might make a game with a good story hard to endure but a bad story won't tarnish good mechanics.
I keep thinking about Other M in this context. Now I've never played that game myself, but I can tell you that in all the threads hating on the game I hardly ever see complaints about the gameplay. And yet from the reaction to the game you'd think it was the singular worst thing that has ever happened in all of video game history. I'm actually curious about the game to see if my philosophy holds up.
MGS5 is a perfect example of people shitting on a game with amazing gameplay because they didn't like the story part. To me that's completely insane, but if it genuinely ruined your experience then I suppose it has to reflect your personal rating of the game. This is honestly a big reason why I put very little faith in review scores - even if I don't agree with it I recognize that many, if not most, other people prioritize story in games more than I do. Don't get me wrong, I like a good story in a game. It's just that bad mechanics might make a game with a good story hard to endure but a bad story won't tarnish good mechanics.
I keep thinking about Other M in this context. Now I've never played that game myself, but I can tell you that in all the threads hating on the game I hardly ever see complaints about the gameplay. And yet from the reaction to the game you'd think it was the singular worst thing that has ever happened in all of video game history. I'm actually curious about the game to see if my philosophy holds up.
Always-honest
Banned
Yes. Some games don't even need a story. And most stories.. well.. not that great anyway.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Nope. This is not how real life works.
Reviewers in all fields give "perfect" scores all the time. It doesn't mean the item in question is literally perfect.
StrangeTaco
Member
If you are objectively reviewing a game? Then no, a 10/10 needs to be for a game that executes everything perfectly (or as well as can be realistically expected at least).
Subjectively a game can be your personal 10/10 depending on what aspects of gaming are more important to you. Life is Strange for example is a 10/10 for me because well written stories override almost anything when it comes to single player games.
Subjectively a game can be your personal 10/10 depending on what aspects of gaming are more important to you. Life is Strange for example is a 10/10 for me because well written stories override almost anything when it comes to single player games.
WrenchNinja
Member
When a story is so shit that it damages the experience of playing the game, then no, it doesn't.
Thabass
Member
Yeah, I agree with this. My personal opinion is that stories are part of the experience of the game, but shouldn't be factored into the final score.
However, I agree with the above where if the reviewer feels like the story is worth putting a score on it, then that's the way it is.
10/10 is a perfect for me so no if the story is one of the game's central pillars. Tetris does not have a story (as far as I am aware) so that sort of game is exempt.
However, the caveat is that review scores should be subjective but backed with objective information/facts about the game. So a 10 for someone is fine as long as they can justify it to at least themselves, I'm not here to take that away from someone.
However, the caveat is that review scores should be subjective but backed with objective information/facts about the game. So a 10 for someone is fine as long as they can justify it to at least themselves, I'm not here to take that away from someone.
Depends on if the game is heavily centered around story or the story gets in the way of the gameplay. IMO If the game is trying to make you care about the story and it absolutely sucks, then the game doesn't deserve a 10. But reviews being a subjective thing, I'm sure there are people that could completely ignore a story sucking in that instance and focus entirely on the gameplay and believe it's a 10.
So long story short, yes, you can give a game with a bad story but great gameplay a 10, or you can dock points for it, neither is wrong. As long as the review mentions the story being bad, it's all good.
So long story short, yes, you can give a game with a bad story but great gameplay a 10, or you can dock points for it, neither is wrong. As long as the review mentions the story being bad, it's all good.
More_Badass
Member
Not exactly. Stories for games like Super Hexagon, Tetris, Geometry Wars would only dilute and bog down the gameplay
I was wondering the same thing. Maybe it's a representation of the mind's struggle to compartmentalise, organise, and survive daily living
I care when it's bad, but that may just be the method of delivery rather than the story itself. I don't think any of my favourite games have anything more than a serviceable story, it's just that they are presented in a more palatable way than others
dragonfart28
Banned
I can see many JRPGs falling into this category.
This is pretty much it.
Mario Galaxy isn't meant to have a riveting storyline, and instead is really just meant to be a means to engaging gameplay (though does give you feels with Rosalina's story), and that gameplay is amazing. 10/10
But if the game's story is a large part of the experience and it's terrible, but the gameplay is still very good, then it should lose some points. I can't really think of a game off the top of my head where I've had this thought though.
No, because that makes up part of the whole. If a game wants 10/10 scores it needs to excel at whatever content it releases. I don't care if its a multiplayer game with a shoehorned in story or vice versa. If a developer releases a feature for their game and it doesn't live up to the standard set in the other areas of the game, it doesn't deserve that kind of score. 10s are supposed to show that a dev team put a lot of love and effort in to their game, so if there's parts that don't feel tended to, that has an adverse effect on the quality of the package as a whole. I'd rank a single player game with no multiplayer higher than the same single player game but with an additional, bad multiplayer mode thrown in.
I'd rather have my sundae without the cherry on top if it's just going to be rotten.
I'd rather have my sundae without the cherry on top if it's just going to be rotten.
More_Badass
Member
It's never as simple as that. Gameplay is a tool. For games where gameplay and action on screen is the core aspect, a simple framework or even just a bad story is fine. But gameplay is also the means used to push the narrative forward in story-driven games. The gameplay and story are linked. A good story can overcome weak gameplay (i.e. Alpha Protocol)
AmuroChan
Member
I think gameplay should definitely take precedent over story. I don't have the stats in front of me, but IIRC most gamers don't finish games. And then there are games like COD or Battlefield where a large chunk of the user base play just the multiplayer and not even bother with the campaign.
That depends entirely on how the story is told. Not every story requires cutscenes.
Depends what makes or how the story is bad; and its role in the larger make up of the game. I care way more about gameplay, but some of Bayonettas story short comings aren't easily excused. And I think that game is sublime.
Mario the story isn't bad, it's just paper thin and simple, and it works for what Mario is. Metal gears story has always been a series of bullshit with moments of brilliance here or there, and said story is overbearing over the entire experience. Go straight up ignore how dumb it can be, would come off a bit dishonest.
Narrative context also has its place in gameplay loops as well. Like anything else it's a game by game thing. I will say though that exceptional story telling will not make up for poor game design for me. To me a game failing the interactive aspects as too big of a sin.
Mario the story isn't bad, it's just paper thin and simple, and it works for what Mario is. Metal gears story has always been a series of bullshit with moments of brilliance here or there, and said story is overbearing over the entire experience. Go straight up ignore how dumb it can be, would come off a bit dishonest.
Narrative context also has its place in gameplay loops as well. Like anything else it's a game by game thing. I will say though that exceptional story telling will not make up for poor game design for me. To me a game failing the interactive aspects as too big of a sin.
mrmickfran
Member
Hell yeah.
"Game"play is the most important thing about a game.
Bayonetta
Mario Galaxy
"Game"play is the most important thing about a game.
Bayonetta
Mario Galaxy
More_Badass
Member
Of course not. But even still, would knowing the plight of the L block or that the act of matching blocks is a metaphor for a person fixing their broken psyche actually add something meaningful to the experience? Context matters. Super Hexagon, Geometry Wars, and others in that vein are all about that one-more-go, moment-to-moment, mastery of skill drive to get better and better. A story would only distract from that focused mechanics-driven experience. In those cases, it's what you're doing, not why you're doing it, that matters.
Gunslinger
Member
Depends on the genre imo. If it's a RPG sure story matters or a heavily story driven game. But if it's likes a fighting game or action game like beyonetta or from software games then I don't think story is important. Gameplay is king there. I usually skip most cutscene anyway when the gameplay is as good as sfv, DMC games or souls game. I just wanna play the damn game instead of watching movie.
I have always believed that the scoring system is flawed, since it never encapsulates all the details that effect the game. So there is that.
On the subject at hand, it really depends on if the game hangs it's entertainment value on the narrative or not. That said, no game should get a "10/10" but that should effect the scoring if the narrative is central to the game. If not, story is a non-factor.
On the subject at hand, it really depends on if the game hangs it's entertainment value on the narrative or not. That said, no game should get a "10/10" but that should effect the scoring if the narrative is central to the game. If not, story is a non-factor.
Not...the best example, unless you were just speaking personally. Alpha Protocol received poor reviews from critics and aside from a minority of RPG fans, players as well. I don't dispute the general point, though, if the Witcher 3's reception is any indication.
More_Badass
Member
Wasn't talking about scores there, but the nature of a game itself. The vast majority of reviews praised the story a lot, how it was the narrative and choices that keep them playing, despite the weaker gameplay. So in that sense, a good story can overcome poor gameplay.