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Because it sounds utterly impossible to flatly apply to all companies and all age workers

Like I'm pretty sure I've read Wal Mart for example makes something like $1300 profit per employee and with the jump to $15 they would be losing over $4000 per employee

Surely there will be less jobs if every worker costs the company 30%+ more? Not that many companies are rolling in profits that could absorb that without reducing the work force

So if I understand correctly that people want a minimum $15 per hour for everyone, help me understand how that much more money goes into paychecks and gets balanced out with number of jobs available and company revenues

If there's a way, of course it would be good. I just don't see the way.

 

[kirblar]

On a national level it'd be a horrific disaster which would decimate regions w low cost of living. We dont even have much data yet on the effects in high cost of living areas.

So why is it pushed? Because it benefits those bankrolling the campaign.

 

[MTE]

If a business can't support paying its employees a living wage, does it still deserve to exist?

 

[klonere]

Robots.

 

[SMattera]

If a business can't support paying its employees a living wage, does it still deserve to exist?

Yes without question

 

[Galava]

If a business can't support paying its employees a living wage, does it still deserve to exist?

If the minimum living wage gets raised to $15 companies will fire half the working force. Enjoy your extra millions of unemployed people. (And therefore an economic crisis).

 

[x-Lundz-x]

If a business can't support paying its employees a living wage, does it still deserve to exist?

For the employees that work at these said businesses that don't deserve to exist how many dollars an hour is more, 8 dollar an hour or 0 dollars an hour?

 

[teruterubozu]

If a business can't support paying its employees a living wage, does it still deserve to exist?

Is this a Draconian law you are proposing?

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Robots.

Productivity.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Yes without question

I will never comprehend the logic behind treating corporations better than people

 

[Dr_Boris_Goltz]

If the minimum living wage gets raised to $15 companies will fire half the working force. Enjoy your extra millions of unemployed people. (And therefore an economic crisis).

If a business can fire half of its workforce and continue just fine it's not exactly running efficiently.

 

[kirblar]

If a business can't support paying its employees a living wage, does it still deserve to exist?

A living wage is less than $15 in many/most parts of the country.

A living wage should not count children. We have welfare for that.

 

[JaggedSac]

I entered the workforce at 15 years old at a twin cinema in a very small town. Would have been nice to get a living wage then, lol.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Walmart makes about $7,500 per employee. Average hourly wages are currently $13.38. An increase to $15 (i.e. +$1.62 an hour), assuming 34 hours worked a week and 48 weeks worked a year, is a reduction in $2643.84, leaving them still making about $5,000 per employee in profit. This is also a worst-case scenario. Walmart's $7,500 per employee is after tax and the minimum wage increase occurs before tax, so Walmart's tax liability would not be as high, and additionally minimum wage increases tend to be associated with higher productivity, which increases output per worker at the same cost and so increase profit per worker. You'd also raise consumption in the economy, which means Walmart makes more sales, which you'd expect to mean an increase in profit.

This is really, really not a problem for Walmart.

 

[Galava]

I will never comprehend the logic behind treating corporations better than people

People run these corporations, not robots or invisible entities. And they provide jobs, if you treat companies like shit, you will lose them and your country will go to shit.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I will never comprehend the logic behind treating corporations better than people

Yea because every single business is a giant corporation.

 

[Dennis]

Companies should pay people a living wage that does not require you to work an extra 8 hour job.

What that living wage comes to in hourly minimum wage I don't know and will presumably vary a lot across regions.

 

[milanbaros]

The idea is to shift the return on capital from the owners to the labour applying work to the capital.

A higher minimum wage would shift the burden of welfare from the state to the employers.

A higher minimum wage would increase consumption which would further increase demand for labour.

The price of goods would rise but not anywhere near 1:1 because the cost of goods sold is not made up entirely of US minimum wage labour.

 

[Adam_Roman]

If the minimum living wage gets raised to $15 companies will fire half the working force. Enjoy your extra millions of unemployed people.

The theory is that employees won't be fired because the lower and middle class spend most their money without saving it, so all that extra money will be recirculated back into the businesses. I'm not sure if I believe that, but the places that have been raising minimum wage like Seattle seem to be advocating the benefits so who knows. That could be chalked up to just a case of a place with a higher cost of living raising the minimum wage to be more proportional though.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Raising it to 7.50 didn't kill all businesses.


The point is moot. It has never harmed them before. 15$ is what it should be at already if they never halted the increases.

 

[Brinbe]

Oh, poor big business.

Truly have my sympathies.

Anyway, continuing down the line of argument, the real answer is a basic income for people. But that's a line of thinking America won't be comfortable grappling with for who knows how many decades.

 

[Fox Mulder]

It's dumb.

Retail slashed hours when they had to bump everyone to $9. I worked at Target and made less when I left than when I walked in off the street just because of losing hours.

 

[shiftplusone]

I don't think flat 15 is THE answer but it's a better answer than "no minimum wage at all let the states decide"

People run these corporations, not robots or invisible entities. And they provide jobs, if you treat companies like shit, you will lose them and your country will go to shit.

and if you treat the employees like shit, well, they're used to it already so fuck them

 

[Valtýr]

Pay the executives less then shift the money downward all the way to the lowest employee. Trickle down, if you will.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

If a business can't support paying its employees a living wage, does it still deserve to exist?

Nope, some businesses just need part time employees. If the whole system is fucked that experienced adults need to take younger people's jobs and then ask for a career wage from that. Well, business are not social security.

 

[Ensoul]

I am not opposed to this because minim wage isn't close to a livable salary. What will end up happening is that there will be more self check out lines and less cashiers at stores. In fast food places there will be more of the kiosks when you can order your own food. Mom and pop businesses will probably not be able to afford many, if any employees as well. More or less the custom service aspect will suffer.

 

[jay]

People run these corporations, not robots or invisible entities. And they provide jobs, if you treat companies like shit, you will lose them and your country will go to shit.

It's a race to the bottom.

 

[kirblar]

I don't think flat 15 is THE answer but it's a better answer than "no minimum wage at all let the states decide"

Luckily, that isnt the alternative. We have a national min wage. You just have to be cautious with it because it is the lowest common denominator. Individual states cities and counties can set theirs higher as they see fit.

 

[massoluk]

$15 should be enacted in big cities, anywhere else would just ensure the death of (totally not sarcasm) job creators.

 

[Nosgotham]

15/hr is way more than a living wage in my city. 9 bucks an hour should be the sweet spot, at least where i live...in a decent sized city.

 

[Abounder]

Because even if it passed it wouldn't happen for a few years

It'd make more sense if there was free health/mental/dental care

 

[Maxim726X]

If a business can fire half of its workforce and continue just fine it's not exactly running efficiently.

Well, it won't run as well... That's the point.

Either the company in question passes the cost on to the consumer, or the business takes a hit. I don't really see any other way.

These corporations are going to get their pound of flesh- This is what people seem to neglect when they support someone like Sanders.

 

[Dennis]

Is $15/hour even a living wage in SF?

 

[milanbaros]

The national minimum wage was just raised in the UK to £7.20 (a 50p rise from October and 70p from 12 months ago) and is set to increase by 45p a year for the next 4 years to £9.

Inflation is basically nil and employment rate is at an all time high. Will be interesting to see if it has a damaging effect.

 

[xxracerxx]

More small businesses will shut down.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Because it sounds utterly impossible to flatly apply to all companies and all age workers

Like I'm pretty sure I've read Wal Mart for example makes something like $1300 profit per employee and with the jump to $15 they would be losing over $4000 per employee

Surely there will be less jobs if every worker costs the company 30%+ more? Not that many companies are rolling in profits that could absorb that without reducing the work force

So if I understand correctly that people want a minimum $15 per hour for everyone, help me understand how that much more money goes into paychecks and gets balanced out with number of jobs available and company revenues

If there's a way, of course it would be good. I just don't see the way.

Where's your math on the $5300 swing per employee because it doesn't make sense.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Living wage is hard to define because of regional variations in cost of living. Look at New York, Texas or California. Really large states with very huge swings in COL. So while $15 can be pretty good in Idaho or Iowa, it might just barely make a dent in parts of those bigger states.

 

[CloudyTuba]

In some areas it makes sense, in other areas it may not. Depends on cost of living. A raise to 15 across the board in the whole country all at once would cause major issues. I do support raising the minimum wage, but not to a single high number nationally. It needs to have a more nuanced implementation.

The idea is that minimum wage was supposed to be a minimum livable wage for one person working full time to afford basic food and shelter. This has managed to get abused up to the point that companies entire business models rely on fucking over their employees to operate.

So yes, raising minimum wage so significantly would fuck companies up, but mainly because the system is already fucked and many businesses treat their employees like slaves. The problem is that because industry is already reliant on this scummy method, flipping a switch to fix it now would wreck the economy.

Nothing trickled down, the little guy just got fucked and now it's not easy to fix it because the slimy suits already won a long time ago.

For the employees that work at these said businesses that don't deserve to exist how many dollars an hour is more, 8 dollar an hour or 0 dollars an hour?

By that logic, minimum wage should be abolished and they should be thankful for 50 cents an hour and a pat on the back. This isn't a simple black and white issue, and I hate the "fuck you I've got mine" mentality. I'm assuming you feel fine about Walmart workers getting exploited because you're not a Walmart worker.

People really like to put down fast food and retail workers as if they deserve to treated like shit and accept that it is either exploited or be unemployed.

Yeah, those shouldn't be the only two options for a lot of people.

 

[FStop7]

People need to be able to earn a living wage.

$15 an hour is the minimum threshold as defined by our society.

It's pretty straightforward.

 

[Maxim726X]

The national minimum wage was just raised in the UK to £7.20 (a 50p rise from October and 70p from 12 months ago) and is set to increase by 45p a year for the next 4 years to £9.

Inflation is basically nil and employment rate is at an all time high. Will be interesting to see if it has a damaging effect.

Wages need to be increased, on that I agree.

As much as I hate to sound like a conservative here... It should be a state issue. For as many have echoed, $15 is a lot of money depending on where you live, or isn't much at all depending on where you live.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

More small businesses will shut down.

They are shutting down faster than ever before.

Hint, it's not the minimum wage that's doing it.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

People really like to put down fast food and retail workers as if they deserve to treated like shit and accept that it is either exploited or be unemployed.

 

[VistraNorrez]

So for everyone opposing any sort of increase in minimum wage, how do you expect any local business to grow if the citizens have no money to spend on them?

 

[Armaros]

People need to be able to earn a living wage.

$15 an hour is the minimum threshold as defined by our society.

It's pretty straightforward.

The minimum? by what measure? for the entire country on a federal level?

So Idaho needs 15 dollar minimum wage just like how NYC does?

So for everyone opposing any sort of increase in minimum wage, how do you expect any local business to grow if the citizens have no money to spend on them?

Being against 15 dollar federal minimum wage is not being against increasing minimum wage, stop with the false dichotomies.

 

[gaugebozo]

Walmart makes about $7,500 per employee. Average hourly wages are currently $13.38. An increase to $15 (i.e. +$1.62 an hour), assuming 34 hours worked a week and 48 weeks worked a year, is a reduction in $2643.84, leaving them still making about $5,000 per employee in profit. This is also a worst-case scenario. Walmart's $7,500 per employee is after tax and the minimum wage increase occurs before tax, so Walmart's tax liability would not be as high, and additionally minimum wage increases tend to be associated with higher productivity, which increases output per worker at the same cost and so increase profit per worker. You'd also raise consumption in the economy, which means Walmart makes more sales, which you'd expect to mean an increase in profit.

This is really, really not a problem for Walmart.

Your math is wrong. $13.38 is the average, some make more, some make less. $15 would be the minimum. Presumably, they have employees who earn more then $15 an hour. This means that a minimum wage of $15 an hour would lead to an average that is above $15 an hour. We can't say how much they would lose without knowing the distribution of employee wages.

It would likely be more than just raising the wages of people who make below $15 up to $15, because employees further up the ladder who now make the same as the day one trainee people will also want a raise.

 

[kirblar]

People need to be able to earn a living wage.

$15 an hour is the minimum threshold as defined by our society.

It's pretty straightforward.

Its the minimum threshold as defined by an advertising campaign bankrolled by unions who automatically benefit from a raise and who aren't concerned about effects on nonmembers.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Wages need to be increased, on that I agree.

As much as I hate to sound like a conservative here... It should be a state issue. For as many have echoed, $15 is a lot of money depending on where you live, or isn't much at all depending on where you live.

If it is left to the states, the Republican ones won't do anything.

 

[Par Score]

The idea is to shift the return on capital from the owners to the labour applying work to the capital.

A higher minimum wage would shift the burden of welfare from the state to the employers.

A higher minimum wage would increase consumption which would further increase demand for labour.

The price of goods would rise but not anywhere near 1:1 because the cost of goods sold is not made up entirely of US minimum wage labour.

A good, succinct, post.

 

[brettski2024]

If a business can't support paying its employees a living wage, does it still deserve to exist?

This is a scary road to go down. In what world does this make any sense?

Business owners are taking a huge risk and if they have zero responsibility to pay entry level workers a "living" wage.

Min wage isn't meant to be a living wage. It's a starter job to gain skills. Skills equals more money.

 

[milanbaros]

They are shutting down faster than ever before.

Hint, it's not the minimum wage that's doing it.

Really? Got any stats on that? I thought the small business rate closure rate had been declining since the 70s (barring recession periods).