Considering all the things Star Citizen is doing in its current form and what it intends to do, then comparing to Cyberpunk 2077 and Death Stranding - both of which barely demonstrate anything other than a concept and don't seem likely to be going for anywhere near the scope and scale of Star Citizen - I wouldn't say "yikes" at all. Besides, S42 is due out first iirc
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Kotaku's 7 month investigation into Star Citizen's development
- Thread starter Widge
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Considering all the things Star Citizen is doing in its current form and what it intends to do, then comparing to Cyberpunk 2077 and Death Stranding - both of which barely demonstrate anything other than a concept and don't seem likely to be going for anywhere near the scope and scale of Star Citizen - I wouldn't say "yikes" at all. Besides, S42 is due out first iirc
moffattron9000
Member
A bit off topic here, but when do projects with extended, protracted development ever live up to the hype? Duke Nukem Forever was a dud, Gran Turismo 5 was a dud, Aliens: Colonial Marines was a dud, No Man's Sky is most likely a dud, and Metal Gear Solid V while being great, certainly didn't stand up to the expectations. Even if we expand this scope out of games, the same pattern emerges (Chinese Democracy, Smile, Alien vs. Predator, Atlas Shrugged).
So why do people keep this hype alive when everything says that this will blow up in their face?
So why do people keep this hype alive when everything says that this will blow up in their face?
The Last Guardian is never coming out, neither is FFXV.
They've shown really early snippets but wait for October to see more.
Hari Seldon
Member
Just finish the single player wing commander game lol. Just do that and worry about the rest later.
People want to believe the things they like, and in this case, have spent a lot of money on is 'good'/has been worth their time. If it's not, they've wasted time/money.
Sometimes you feel bad about all the hard work done to bring out this detailed reporting. All for it to just be used in forum wars without people actually reading it through.
Halo CE was originally going to be an RTS. It was released and exceeded hype. If you want something more recent, Persona 5 was delayed multiple times and is living up to the hype so far in Japan. I can't honestly think of a game that isn't a yearly release that doesn't have some type of development hell.
Really.
Maintenance
Member
Kojima will release his game before they finish this.
Dictator93
Member
Yes! A number of big named projects have gone beyond the expectations of reception, even after long troubled developments: the recent DOOM (2016) is a key example of this.
Nearly every single PC veteran and and anyone watching the marketing for DOOM would have imagined the game could be a mediocre, consolised first person shooter aping all the wrong cultural memes about the doom legacy.
Instead of that we got one of the best single player FPS in years in terms of gameplay and design. One that actually respected the legacy of doom as a cutlrual phenomenon and ends up being pretty funny and thoughtful about that in general.
Squadron 42's first game will definitely release before Death's Stranding. I honestly do not think Star Citizen will ever be feature complete in an objective usage of that term. Like most MMOs it will keep expanding and expanding into its original design doc if the community stands by the game during that time.
WoW 1.0 probably did not match the intended design doc of the game. The "mounts", the world interconenctedness , and the amount of available classes and races of vanilla WoW make this point obvious, IMO.
You have that correct... you can pre-order the single-player SQ42 campaign for $45US, or if you are not interested in the single-player and just want access to the MMO then there is a package for that, which is also $45US... or for $60US there is the combo package that gets you both. These are the base "starter" packages, but there are also other higher priced packages with bigger and better ships if those suit your style.
I thought this was a great article. It doesn't get into a lot of the meta-drama surrounding it and it lets Chris respond to his detractors right in the article, so you kind of get a nice look at both sides.
That said, I think Chris is the reason this whole thing gained so much momentum, and also the reason this whole thing will crash and burn. I don't know about you, but based on what those sources said and his responses to them, it sounds like CIG would be hellish to work for.
That said, I think Chris is the reason this whole thing gained so much momentum, and also the reason this whole thing will crash and burn. I don't know about you, but based on what those sources said and his responses to them, it sounds like CIG would be hellish to work for.
Dictator93
Member
It comes accros that way from those sources in the article, and I do not doubt that they came away from teh project feeling that way. There are also seemingly large number of people in the article and out of it that only have expressed their joy about working on the game. PCGH Germany wrote about how positively energetic the staff at Foundry 42 Germany is, for example. While I am no blind man and can recognise the game's development has had its share of troubles and problems at various steps (technical or otherwise), I also think there is a personality dynamic going on. If you honestly share the idea / vision that Chris Roberts has... and it gels with his aesthetic senses and design imperatives... then you are basically being given a nigh unlimited amount of money to work on your personal dream project. People like Tony Zurovek or a lot of the tech guys like F42 Germany or Sean Tracy, have been dying to make these game systems and technical advanacments for years... but seemingly never got the chance to make them with traditional develpment models.
LyleLanley
Banned
Man, I can't imagine spending even a fraction of that amount on in-game content for a game that probably won't even be out for years. That being said there's something kind of funny and amazing about locking the ability to purchase a $2,500 ship behind the purchase of an $18,000 package.
UpUpDownDown
Member
The moment I heard Roberts bragging about 'real elevators' and having to wait for them I realized the man was fuckin delusional.
Zalusithix
Member
It's a balance thing to keep from there being too many of them in the PU in the beginning. It's the largest capital class ship that's not persistent (as in it doesn't stay vulnerable on the server when you log off). The cap ships are all behind a large paywall for this reason.
Mind you, these are ships that can't be used by a single person. There's no point to them unless you're part of an organization large enough to man one.
How is it delusional? It's meant to illustrate that everything in the universe is connected. You don't load into another level when you get into an elevator.
MasterOfPastures
Banned
Pretty good article. I dont think I ever want to work there, but CIG is pushing the technical envelope on what games can do, beyond what any other project has ever done.
The gods bless 125 mil in funding, I suppose.
The gods bless 125 mil in funding, I suppose.
Santerestil
Banned
Wings of Saint Nazaire is what you need, my friend!
I read the article. And I still think CIG have an huge problem with feature creep.
Throwing money at them can work (like Rockstar), but at some point you must say stop and deliver.
...aaaand I wasn't 100% serious about my post, did you know? 
The only reason this game is probably going to get made is that they have an essentially endless well of money that doesn't come from a source that can easily cut them off.
That doesn't mean it's the right way to make this video game. It means they are in a unique position where their mistakes aren't punished all that harshly in relative terms.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Squadron 42 will be the actual measuring stick, as it is the first complete thing to be delivered from the project.
If it is crap, the project will fall apart. If it is good, it will prove Roberts right. Simple as that.
If it is crap, the project will fall apart. If it is good, it will prove Roberts right. Simple as that.
CyberPunked
Member
I love how people act as if a 4 year development is a sign of disaster, when this game has been in development for 9 years, and yet everyone on Gaf obsesses with how great of a game it will be.
The same can be said of FFXV. 10 years of development for a singleplayer game!
But hey ho, I guess that's what you get for being a PC only title.
Comandr
Member
Here are my thoughts on Star Citizen. I backed about 2 years ago for $40. That bought me a basic ship, and gave me access to Star Citizen and eventually, Squadron 42. I could load up the game at that point, and walk around in my virtual hangar. I could climb into my ship, sit in the flight chair, or lay down in the ship'a tiny little bed. That ship was the Aurora, and I thought it was the coolest thing. My imagination ran wild.
Fast forward some amount of time later. The dogfighting module is out. I can actually take my ship out, fly it around and fight against enemy drones. Flying what was up to this point a model ship was surreal. The controls were heavy and sluggish, but in a good way! My shitty little ship felt like what I imagined a shitty little ship to feel like flying. Flying the ship felt realistic. I could see all of the navigational thrusters on the bottom firing realistically to position me how I wanted to be, real physics simulation in full effect. It felt good. More importantly, it felt cool. Even in my space tub, I felt badass.
Later on, the Cutlass Black got a super slick trailer, and I knew that was the ship I had to have. A multi-crew space pirate ship. Max crew of 3 including pilot, co-pilot, and gunner. The ship included a large cargo bay and loading ramp for ample plunder. I knew I wanted to play with friends, and I knew this ship was going to let me have my own crew. I was stoked.
Flying the Cutlass was another eye opener. This ship is HUGE! It wasn't nearly as agile as I imagined it would be, (apparently something that is currently undergoing revision). I fought against my buddy and future shipmate in single combat in the updated Dogfighting Module, which now supported multiplayer. He was flying one of the new single person starter ships, and his superior speed and handling gave him the upper hand.
My ship started to explode, but unlike in my Aurora, it exploded in different pieces. An engine blew off, but I could still fly. Part of a wing got destroyed, but I was still in my ship, and could struggle against him! I mean, I was a dead duck, but this revelation was incredible to me. My ship was being destroyed in individual pieces, but I was still somehow alive inside the preserved portion. I guess I'd never played a game like that.
Fast forward again and multiplayer dogfighting has been expanded again. You can actually land your ship, get out, and join other players on THEIR ships. The very VERY first flickers of multi-crew ship gameplay was sparking to life.
Months later, the first online player hub, ArcCorp became available. I now had the ability to walk around in a simulated environment and interact with other players. There wasn't a lot to do, but the map was incredibly detailed for a first iteration, and it really felt like the "MMO" part of the game was starting to come together.
More time passes and now Port Olisar is available. An even larger hub area with more people to interact with, a star port that you can call your ship from, get in, and then fly around in space. A small glimpse into what the future was holding.
The game now today, has even more locations, on foot FPS elements implemented, working multi-crew components where you can join someone on their ship, and take on a role at a computer station beyond that of the pilot. To my knowledge, the only one available right now may be "power systems management," but still a worthy role to have filled in a fight.
I remember being shot from behind in early dogfighting and trying to desperately fly away while shifting shields to the rear. It's a challenge; especially on a controller. Having a dedicated person to do that would certainly have made my life easier. Knowing that I can be that person now, it's an empowering feeling.
Star Citizen has a long way to go. But it's also come a very long way. It may not seem like that from the outside looking in, but as someone who's played the game, and having come from what you could barely call a game, almost no features, to the breadth that it is today, it's pretty astonishing. Hundreds of people have worked for thousands of hours to make this game what it is now, and I'm impressed by how far it's come.
I think you see videos like Mass Effect Andromeda's PS4 Pro trailer, and there's the cute tag at the bottom of the screen that says "Footage of alpha build" or whatever. Alpha my ass. The game itself may technically be in alpha, as in all of the assets aren't in and the game in its current state cannot be completed, but the demo they showed was polished to hell. Having worked in the game development industry, our games that were in alpha were missing sounds, textures, models, tons of shit. Most games in an alpha state, you would not want to show off.
Star Citizen is a shining example of why. They are unpolished, unfinished messes. Things are constantly, constantly changing. If Joe Consumer watched ME:A's "alpha" video, and then watched any gameplay segment of SC, they'd be like, holy shit, both of these games are in the same stage of development? ME:A is supposed to come out in like what, Q1 sometime? So 6ish months, and we've seen a 2 minute clip of one tiny part of the game. The game is probably an ugly, unfun, primordial mess still. That said, as it enters beta and Release Candidate phases before going gold, I fully expect it to mature into the game we are all looking forward to playing.
For anyone that thinks Star Citizen is never coming out, please refer to The Last Guardian, and Final Fantasy XV. Two games that have been in development for the better part of a decade, still haven't been released, and have probably both have blown a shit ton of cash getting to where they are today. This isn't unprecedented. What IS unprecedented is the in depth look we are getting to the day in day out development of the game.
If you have any doubts, play it yourself. The game frequently features "Fly Free" weekends around conventions where you can download the game and play around in all the current features.
tl;dr the game is fun, errybody chill it'll be fine.
Fast forward some amount of time later. The dogfighting module is out. I can actually take my ship out, fly it around and fight against enemy drones. Flying what was up to this point a model ship was surreal. The controls were heavy and sluggish, but in a good way! My shitty little ship felt like what I imagined a shitty little ship to feel like flying. Flying the ship felt realistic. I could see all of the navigational thrusters on the bottom firing realistically to position me how I wanted to be, real physics simulation in full effect. It felt good. More importantly, it felt cool. Even in my space tub, I felt badass.
Later on, the Cutlass Black got a super slick trailer, and I knew that was the ship I had to have. A multi-crew space pirate ship. Max crew of 3 including pilot, co-pilot, and gunner. The ship included a large cargo bay and loading ramp for ample plunder. I knew I wanted to play with friends, and I knew this ship was going to let me have my own crew. I was stoked.
Flying the Cutlass was another eye opener. This ship is HUGE! It wasn't nearly as agile as I imagined it would be, (apparently something that is currently undergoing revision). I fought against my buddy and future shipmate in single combat in the updated Dogfighting Module, which now supported multiplayer. He was flying one of the new single person starter ships, and his superior speed and handling gave him the upper hand.
My ship started to explode, but unlike in my Aurora, it exploded in different pieces. An engine blew off, but I could still fly. Part of a wing got destroyed, but I was still in my ship, and could struggle against him! I mean, I was a dead duck, but this revelation was incredible to me. My ship was being destroyed in individual pieces, but I was still somehow alive inside the preserved portion. I guess I'd never played a game like that.
Fast forward again and multiplayer dogfighting has been expanded again. You can actually land your ship, get out, and join other players on THEIR ships. The very VERY first flickers of multi-crew ship gameplay was sparking to life.
Months later, the first online player hub, ArcCorp became available. I now had the ability to walk around in a simulated environment and interact with other players. There wasn't a lot to do, but the map was incredibly detailed for a first iteration, and it really felt like the "MMO" part of the game was starting to come together.
More time passes and now Port Olisar is available. An even larger hub area with more people to interact with, a star port that you can call your ship from, get in, and then fly around in space. A small glimpse into what the future was holding.
The game now today, has even more locations, on foot FPS elements implemented, working multi-crew components where you can join someone on their ship, and take on a role at a computer station beyond that of the pilot. To my knowledge, the only one available right now may be "power systems management," but still a worthy role to have filled in a fight.
I remember being shot from behind in early dogfighting and trying to desperately fly away while shifting shields to the rear. It's a challenge; especially on a controller. Having a dedicated person to do that would certainly have made my life easier. Knowing that I can be that person now, it's an empowering feeling.
Star Citizen has a long way to go. But it's also come a very long way. It may not seem like that from the outside looking in, but as someone who's played the game, and having come from what you could barely call a game, almost no features, to the breadth that it is today, it's pretty astonishing. Hundreds of people have worked for thousands of hours to make this game what it is now, and I'm impressed by how far it's come.
I think you see videos like Mass Effect Andromeda's PS4 Pro trailer, and there's the cute tag at the bottom of the screen that says "Footage of alpha build" or whatever. Alpha my ass. The game itself may technically be in alpha, as in all of the assets aren't in and the game in its current state cannot be completed, but the demo they showed was polished to hell. Having worked in the game development industry, our games that were in alpha were missing sounds, textures, models, tons of shit. Most games in an alpha state, you would not want to show off.
Star Citizen is a shining example of why. They are unpolished, unfinished messes. Things are constantly, constantly changing. If Joe Consumer watched ME:A's "alpha" video, and then watched any gameplay segment of SC, they'd be like, holy shit, both of these games are in the same stage of development? ME:A is supposed to come out in like what, Q1 sometime? So 6ish months, and we've seen a 2 minute clip of one tiny part of the game. The game is probably an ugly, unfun, primordial mess still. That said, as it enters beta and Release Candidate phases before going gold, I fully expect it to mature into the game we are all looking forward to playing.
For anyone that thinks Star Citizen is never coming out, please refer to The Last Guardian, and Final Fantasy XV. Two games that have been in development for the better part of a decade, still haven't been released, and have probably both have blown a shit ton of cash getting to where they are today. This isn't unprecedented. What IS unprecedented is the in depth look we are getting to the day in day out development of the game.
If you have any doubts, play it yourself. The game frequently features "Fly Free" weekends around conventions where you can download the game and play around in all the current features.
tl;dr the game is fun, errybody chill it'll be fine.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Starcraft 2
Diablo 3
Team Fortress 2
LA Noire
Dragon Age Origins
Morrowind
Resident Evil 4
It happens
I love how people act as if a 4 year development is a sign of disaster, when this game has been in development for 9 years, and yet everyone on Gaf obsesses with how great of a game it will be. But hey ho, I guess that's what you get for being a PC only title.
Plus it's only singleplayer published by Soony. Reminds me of PS2 games. FFXV has been going on for 10 years now.
I love how people act as if a 4 year development is a sign of disaster, when this game has been in development for 9 years, and yet everyone on Gaf obsesses with how great of a game it will be. But hey ho, I guess that's what you get for being a PC only title.
People want to be the ones to say I told you so.
That and stupid people are stupid.
I can't understand this comparison at all, Duke Nukem went through 15 years of development and multiple studios before it was finished, Aliens was in development since 2001 and also went through multiple hands before it released. Star Citizen is about to reach it's 4th year of development (5 if you count before the kickstarter, but none of that was even used), and progress is shown everyday.
I wouldn't care if it was just you, but I seem those comparisons all the time. Like, wtf?
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I own a ship and I have no plans on even attempting to play the game until well after Cloud Imperium files for bankruptcy
Dreams-Visions
Member
"The problems were inherent from the beginning. It's just not a wise decision to attempt everything at once." - CIG source
I think most people outside of the die hards who have invested hundreds into buying the promise of ships would agree.
I think most people outside of the die hards who have invested hundreds into buying the promise of ships would agree.
SolidSnakex
Member
I love how people act as if a 4 year development is a sign of disaster, when this game has been in development for 9 years, and yet everyone on Gaf obsesses with how great of a game it will be.
Pop into TLG threads and you won't have any problems finding people that think it's going to suck because it's been in development for so long. With that said, one of the reassuring things about TLG is that it's the exact same game that they were making on the PS3. It's not like they came back with it and have suddenly bolted on a bunch popular aspects in current gaming. It's still a single player game about a boy and a giant AI creature.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
I think one of the problems with Kickstarter is that you see the development of the entire game. Normally games are worked on for years sometimes before they are unveiled and then aren't released for even longer. With Kickstarter you pretty much know about the game from the moment of conception, almost before any real work is even done on it.
LyleLanley
Banned
They couldn't include that ship in the $18,000 package?
I love how people act as if a 4 year development is a sign of disaster, when this game has been in development for 9 years, and yet everyone on Gaf obsesses with how great of a game it will be.
The same can be said of FFXV. 10 years of development for a singleplayer game!
But hey ho, I guess that's what you get for being a PC only title.
The difference is that no one here paid money for both games in advance. If both of them suck, no one really cares except for Sony and Square Enix. If SC sucks, there will be more tears than we had with Mighty No. 9. A lot more.
It seems that within the last year things have really leveled out in terms of staffing, getting all of the management in place and really organizing how the development will be split amongst the different studios.
Hopefully that means whatever work is left will be relatively smooth and we can see a final product in 1-2 years.
Hopefully that means whatever work is left will be relatively smooth and we can see a final product in 1-2 years.
Besthelboy
Banned
Well, the games development progress is clearly documented by the own teams. Each week the SC YouTube channel goes to a studio and interview team members from one of their 4 studios and show off what they've been working on, they also show off a new or old ship getting reworked and then some extras. Every month there's a written studio report, there's interviews from community managers done by independent YouTubers where more information comes out, it's not like they're developing this behind closed doors. Everyone who's backed who've followed the development of the games knows all the difficulties of developing this game, knows the issue, but choose to believe that the teams are good enough to get this game done based on what they show.
That's a big if, only time will tell. Plus plenty of people have pre-ordered TLG and FFXV, they'll probably end up as decent games but the development has been hell for those two.
Weltall Zero
Member
Hopefully there will also be a lot of lessons learned this time alongside Mighty No. 9 and No Man's Sky. Honestly at this point I'm finding it harder and harder to care for people burned by crowdfunding, any more than for people bankrupting themselves at a casino. If you're too uninformed to make some basic risk assessment before parting with your money, you have nobody to blame but yourself.
The Dear Leader
Banned
But there's a lot of people who just paid $45-$60 just like any other game so there isn't really a difference for a lot backers.
I have been lead on some development stuff and experienced this same thing. You have an idea on how to make things better and others are doing it, but your team has never tried it before and does not want to fail. I understand there are time and budget restraints but having to push your team to make them realize they are capable of more.
Besthelboy
Banned
You'll be able to buy ships with in game currency, that's how they want you to buy ships. Outside of the game packages, the ships are basically bought by people who want to play with their new toys right now and not wait. However they'll be bringing in the ability to buy ships with aUEC (the test currency currently implemented) well before the game is released. It's not really outrageous since a normal person will never buy these thousands of dollars ships, those are for huge clans with hundreds of people online at once.
Are people dumb enough to purchase this? I'd really like to meet the person who bought this.
The game's budget is over $100 million though. What other game has that kind of budget? Metal Gear Solid V was close with $80 million. I'm sure Grand Theft Auto V is up there too, but Rockstar has delivered & then some.
Buggy Loop
Member
Who thought it would be a good idea to split developement into all those satellite studios? Honestly, does that ever work out "ok" in any industries? Im not talking about buying standard parts from a supplier, but to R&D simutaneously by distance? Its a clusterfuck waiting to happen.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Everyone's L becomes another win for Elite: Dangerous.
No man's sky was crowdfunded now?
A lot of large games are made by multiple studios. You should check out how many studios make Call of Duty, they cycle between main studios but work gets assigned everywhere. Same goes for the typical Ubisoft game.
Thanks for this.
I was backer of pCARS, and you impressions are very close to mine. Big games start to look polished very late in development, but crowdfunded project are always visible to public and years of such constant visibility can cause a lot of outside people to start thinking that game is doomed.
IMO, SC is on a right track, lots of systems are being built and slowley put together into sinlgle package, and devs aim at very ambitious things. Thankfully, they are very connected to the community, offer progress reports, etc. This is far from doomed project.
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