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[Durante]

Coming back to the smoothness/stutter discussion of the previous page, I was still surprised how many people experience stutter in this game (in DX11) given that it's one of the most fluid high-end titles for me in recent memory in terms of consistent frametimes.

I think a recent Computerbase article sheds some light on this.
Basically, 6 GB of GPU memory are required for "Very High" textures, and 8 GB are required for "Ultra" textures, even at 1080p. Anything else will cause frametime spikes, while frametimes are perfectly smooth with enough memory.

 

[flipswitch]

I see. Well I have 980Ti which is 6gb and I get some mild stutter in Prague playing on Ultra. Other locations are fine, such as Golem.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

We have DOOM, albeit with Vulkan, has a very good implementation.

Nope. Vulkan works for AMD in DOOM only because their DX11 and OpenGL performance sux.

You guys still need the beta branch.

Okay then.

 

[SimplexPL]

I see. Well I have 980Ti which is 6gb and I get some mild stutter in Prague playing on Ultra. Other locations are fine, such as Golem.

Considering there is very little visual difference between ultra and very high textures, dropping down to very high seems like an obvious choice without big sacrifice.

 

[KainXVIII]

Coming back to the smoothness/stutter discussion of the previous page, I was still surprised how many people experience stutter in this game (in DX11) given that it's one of the most fluid high-end titles for me in recent memory in terms of consistent frametimes.

I think a recent Computerbase article sheds some light on this.
Basically, 6 GB of GPU memory are required for "Very High" textures, and 8 GB are required for "Ultra" textures, even at 1080p. Anything else will cause frametime spikes, while frametimes are perfectly smooth with enough memory.

Not everyone have GTX Titans you know.

 

[Durante]

Not everyone have GTX Titans you know.

What is your point? I don't have one either.

I was simply providing information which clarifies the reason for the differences in experiences -- and shows that if you want to play the game smoothly you have to choose a texture setting fitting your VRAM budget.

 

[DarKshodaN]

What is your point? I don't have one either.

I was simply providing information which clarifies the reason for the differences in experiences -- and shows that if you want to play the game smoothly you have to choose a texture setting fitting your VRAM budget.

well i have a i7 6700k with a gtx 1070 and still get some stuttering here and there, i guess you are just lucky

 

[KainXVIII]

What is your point? I don't have one either.

I was simply providing information which clarifies the reason for the differences in experiences -- and shows that if you want to play the game smoothly you have to choose a texture setting fitting your VRAM budget.

Because this not help much, see above answer. Game is not very well optimized as you want to tell everybody.

 

[Durante]

well i have a i7 6700k with a gtx 1070 and still get some stuttering here and there, i guess you are just lucky

There's no such thing as luck with computers, just a combination of factors not yet fully understood.

Because this not help much, see above answer. Game is not very well optimized as you want to tell everybody.

So basically you have a hangup about our (imagined? I never claimed it to be "very well optimized") differences in opinion regarding the technical state of this game. Which caused you to reply to one of my unrelated posts with a non-sequitur. Ok.

 

[flipswitch]

I thought system memory was a factor as well? Uses up nearly 16GB apparently.

 

[lordfuzzybutt]

Nope. Vulkan works for AMD in DOOM only because their DX11 and OpenGL performance sux.

Exactly my point. ID Software, being a technically proficient dev, managed to extract more performance on the same hardware using a lower level API than what was possible before.

Not sure what you are trying to dispute here.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Exactly my point. ID Software, being a technically proficient dev, managed to extract more performance on the same hardware using a lower level API than what was possible before.

And on NVIDIA's hardware there's zero improvement, so maybe they are not as proficient as you think?

Not sure what you are trying to dispute here.

What I'm trying to say is - if not for the bad DX11 and OpenGL performance from the AMD's side, Vulkan would work exactly the same (if not worse) on AMD's hardware just like it it did on NVIDIA's. So it's not that Vulkan is so great or ID is so proficient (more like idTech 6 is a much better engine than the last one - RAGE, WOLF TNO), it's because AMD is not great at what NVIDIA is great - DX11 and OpenGL.

 

[lordfuzzybutt]

And on NVIDIA's hardware there's zero improvement, so maybe they are not as proficient as you think?


What I'm trying to say is - if not for the bad DX11 and OpenGL performance from the AMD's side, Vulkan would work exactly the same (if not worse) on AMD's hardware just like it it did on NVIDIA's. So it's not that Vulkan is so great or ID is so proficient (more like idTech 5 is a much better engine than the last one - RAGE, WOLF TNO), it's because AMD is not great at what NVIDIA is great - DX11 and OpenGL.

Um, you know that idTech 6 is developed by id Software right?

I never disputed the fact that NVIDIA is better than AMD at DX11 and OGL.

My original post that quoted you (#2610) was simply to point out that we have a successful implementation of a low level API, Vulkan, for DOOM.

They managed to get way better performance for AMD, because of how inefficient their OGL driver is.

They haven't managed to do the same for nVidia, because of how efficient their OGL driver already is.

If you still disagree with me that DOOM is an example of a low level API done right then let's agree to disagree. I find this pointless to continue.

 

[leng jai]

I have a 6600k, 1070 and 16gb of Ram and I still get stuttering in the hub cities.

 

[dr_rus]

They're obviously never going to fix the "bug" which reduces the performance of "certain high-end cards" because gimping Nvidia isn't a bug, it's a feature amirite

Who cares about Nvidia cards when you have to fix dat superior DX12 h/w performance first?

Deus Ex Benchmark : Patch für mehr Leistung im CPU-Limit unter DirectX 12

 

[C-Jo]

I have a 6600k, 1070 and 16gb of Ram and I still get stuttering in the hub cities.

Same CPU/RAM for me, but with a 1080, and I do too.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Um, you know that idTech 6 is developed by id Software right?

Nah, how the hell should I know? I don't even find it so obvious even though the name of the engine kinda screaming that's it is developed by id Software)))))))

I never disputed the fact that NVIDIA is better than AMD at DX11 and OGL.

My original post that quoted you (#2610) was simply to point out that we have a successful implementation of a low level API, Vulkan, for DOOM.

They managed to get way better performance for AMD, because of how inefficient their OGL driver is.

They haven't managed to do the same for nVidia, because of how efficient their OGL driver already is.

If you still disagree with me that DOOM is an example of a low level API done right then let's agree to disagree. I find this pointless to continue.

Oh, I completely agree (cuz it's pointless to disagree (^___^) ), I'm just saying that it's only because of how bad the performance on AMD's side in said API's.

 

[Freshmaker]

I've now updated my machine and with everything cranked up I now get 15fps! Hooray! (see below)

I turned off a few of the settings as per above and managed to get a steady 49.1 fps.

Is this benchmark accurate in terms of in game performance? What do I turn off to hit 60fps? Volumetric lighting only had 3 options (off, on & Ultra)

The benchmark is far rougher on performance than the actual game is. I get about 45fps in the benchmark, and average around 70 in game on my 1070 with everything cranked except MSAA which I have on 2x.

 

[Dec]

Dota 2 runs better on Vulkan on Nvidia GPUs. Doom does if you're ever bottlenecked by CPU (i7 860 + 970 here and I see large improvements in open areas).

It's possible to have a good Vulkan/DX12 implementation on Nvidia, just seems very difficult for many developers. Valve is instrumental in Vulkan development and took their time with Dota's Vulkan renderer.

AMD will of course have more improvement for the reasons already mentioned.

 

[Locuza]

DX10 in Crysis 1 was used to improve graphical effects, not performance.

Up until DX12, all successive DX versions were to improve graphics capability. DX12 is the first version of DX ever which is focused on changing the underlying API design and offers no graphical improvements nor is it meant to.
[...]

The DX10 effects in Crysis 1 (Very High Setting) were artificially hold back from the DX9-Path but could be activated, which I did back then on my old XP-System.
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgameshardware.de%2FCrysis-Spiel-20597%2FTests%2FCrysis-So-haben-Sie-DX10-Effekte-unter-XP-Update-neue-Bilder-Erkenntnisse-619005%2F&edit-text=

DX10 brought no major features to the table in regards of new rendering features.
It improved the state handling to increase the CPU efficiency and cleaned up the mess what the old driver and API model was.

DX12 brings actually a bit from everything, it changes the whole threading-system, the resource-binding and is offering new rendering features like Rasterizer Ordered Views and Conservative Rasterization.
There is also a new Tier for Tiled Resources.

 

[ss_lemonade]

DX10 in Crysis 1 was used to improve graphical effects, not performance.

I remember being able to force a lot of the higher end settings in dx9 mode. I believe the only effect forced that was a bit wonky was object blur.

 

[dr_rus]

DX12 brings actually a bit from everything, it changes the whole threading-system, the resource-binding and is offering new rendering features like Rasterizer Ordered Views and Conservative Rasterization.
There is also a new Tier for Tiled Resources.

The new options for resource binding as well as new features like ROVs and CRs can be used in DX11.3+ as well as in DX12.

 

[Dictator93]

Found some areas and assets that have tessellation. It is not just character faces, kerchiefs, hoods or hats.

With:

Without:

With:

Without:

 

[heringer]

Coming back to the smoothness/stutter discussion of the previous page, I was still surprised how many people experience stutter in this game (in DX11) given that it's one of the most fluid high-end titles for me in recent memory in terms of consistent frametimes.

I think a recent Computerbase article sheds some light on this.
Basically, 6 GB of GPU memory are required for "Very High" textures, and 8 GB are required for "Ultra" textures, even at 1080p. Anything else will cause frametime spikes, while frametimes are perfectly smooth with enough memory.

I still have a ton of stuttering even with textures set to High though.

 

[lordfuzzybutt]

Found some areas and assets that have tessellation. It is not just character faces, kerchiefs, hoods or hats.

Look at them fruits too man.

Most often seen is the bowl of oranges in apartment.

 

[RamaTheVoice]

Found some areas and assets that have tessellation. It is not just character faces, kerchiefs, hoods or hats.

I can barely tell the difference...

VVV Apart from the garbage bags and rolled-up comforter being slightly more rounded and less polygonal-looking, but what's the point if it's only going to apply to minuscule details you have to look at every scene under a microscope to even notice?

 

[Dec]

I can barely tell the difference...

It's pretty clear on the garbage bags.

 

[Patchy]

Gotta say that I am really disappointed with the PC port.

It should not run so badly on my machine, or anyone else's with a similar setup and above.

The game does not look anywhere near *that* good that would warrant the current performance IMO.

This and Rise of the Tomb Raider had really weird performance issues when the last games in those respective series were absolutely rock solid.

Square need to sort themselves out. And I really hope there are a couple of additional patches coming to improve things.

My setup:

3570K
980 TI OC
16 GB RAM
512 SSD

 

[leng jai]

Gotta say that I am really disappointed with the PC port.

It should not run so badly on my machine, or anyone else's with a similar setup and above.

The game does not look anywhere near *that* good that would warrant the current performance IMO.

This and Rise of the Tomb Raider had really weird performance issues when the last games in those respective series were absolutely rock solid.

Square need to sort themselves out.

ROTR was a better port than this.

 

[Patchy]

ROTR was a better port than this.

Yeah and still had weird issues.

Square add these. Lovely additional features in but majority of gamers turn these off and in general performance is not up to snuff.

Haven't played Hitman but a friend tells me the same thing about that one.

 

[leng jai]

Ywsh and still had weird issues.

Square add these. Lovely additional features in but majority of gamers turn these off and in general performance is not up to snuff.

Haven't played Hitman but a friend tells me the same thing about that one.

Hitman uses the same engine as this I think.

 

[Dictator93]

VVV Apart from the garbage bags and rolled-up comforter being slightly more rounded and less polygonal-looking, but what's the point if it's only going to apply to minuscule details you have to look at every scene under a microscope to even notice?

That is quite honestly what you imagine would happen with tessellation. That it subdivides detail into smaller detail.

That is the point.

 

[RamaTheVoice]

That is quite honestly what you imagine would happen with tessellation. That it subdivides detail into smaller detail.

That is the point.

OK, I will rephrase that: what's the point if it's only applied to things 99% of people aren't even going to look at?

 

[Dictator93]

OK, I will rephrase that: what's the point if it's only applied to things 99% of people aren't even going to look at?

To be a nice performance non-intensive addition to a game's graphical options? Notice the emphasis on the word "options" there as it is an optional effect.
The point of options, no matter how small, is to allow users greater control or better visuals, no matter how small, should they care to. In the same vein one could ask:
What is the point of a 16 sample motion blur vs. one with 8? Or a a half resolution bokeh DOF vs. a full resolution?

These are additive effects selected on an optional basis. They allow you to have your game scale better over time and offer quality improvements that show up under scrutiny. Asking about the point of something optional is not a great question IMO; because the value of that option, and thus the point of it, differs from user to user and case to case. IMO; it existing at all as a metavalue is its point.

 

[dr_rus]

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided – test kart graficznych / DirectX 12 wciąż zawodzi

 

[mosdl]

The benchmark is far rougher on performance than the actual game is. I get about 45fps in the benchmark, and average around 70 in game on my 1070 with everything cranked except MSAA which I have on 2x.

I have a 1070 and no msaa and I can dip to 45 walking around Prague. Might be CPU perhaps

 

[SimplexPL]

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided – test kart graficznych / DirectX 12 wciąż zawodzi

I'm Polish - the title means "DirectX 12 still disappoints"

 

[Gareth Bale]

Is that the beta build for DX12?

i.e. are they just confirming what was already said about DX12 performance?

 

[SimplexPL]

I think they played on dx12_preview branch:
http://pclab.pl/art69931-11.html

 

[CybernatonEvolution]

Obviously, I am not saying all early DX11 games were like that.

We have DOOM, albeit with Vulkan, has a very good implementation.
Then we have Rise of the Tomb Raider, which as far as I read, is now performing better than DX11.

My point is we just need to wait for it.


You guys still need the beta branch.

I had a good experience with Vulkan/DX12 in Doom and RoTR (higher average and lowest frame rate) using the gtx 1080. My old 780 didn't benifit from DX12 at all.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Not only do I get worse performance on DX12, my game takes double the time to load off my SSD for some reason. Makes no sense, but it is what it is and I turned that shit off.

Anyway, I upgraded my PC from:

i3-2100 to i5-6500
960 GTX 2GB to 1060 GTX 6GB
16GB 1333MHz RAM to 16GB 2133MHz RAM


And my goodness what a difference. Albeit I'm playing at 1050p (one upgrade at a time ), but at ultra settings with shadows turned down to high and contact shadows set to on, I got 45fps average in the benchmark and a generally locked 60fps in-game with triple buffering enabled (DX11). The game only dips in those really specific hot spots around the train stations in Prague, but not by more than 10fps.

 

[jorimt]

"v1.7 build 551.7_P7" patch is out:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/337000/discussions/0/343787283752172067/

We have just released another PC patch for Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, v1.7 build 551.7_P7. This patch focusses on DLC and critical issues that were reported by users during the last weeks after the awaited DirectX 12 Graphics API release.

This patch will be applied by Steam automatically when you next start the game. If your game does not update, please restart the Steam client.

The following fixes are in this patch:

• Added support for the Jensen Story: System Rift DLC mission. Re-unite with Frank Pritchard, Adam’s friend and former colleague at Sarif Industries, and assist him in hunting down information on the mysterious Santeau Group. Desperate to get more information, Pritchard targets one of the most secure data banks ever created – the Palisade Blade. In agreeing to help, Adam may also be able to uncover hints as to who the Illuminati really are.
• Added Lens Flare option.
• Improvement of Tobii EyeTracking's cover at gaze: Better responsiveness. Separate the responsiveness setting from Extended View. Filter the gaze point harder to get better snapping.
• Tobii EyeTracking's gun arm at gaze (new feature). When using Nanoblade, P.E.P.S or Tesla augmentations, the gun arm will aim in the direction of your gaze, quick shoot by releasing the trigger early or hold for continued aiming.
• Fixed an issue where Extended view is enabled when shopping.
• Fixed an issue where Extended view - Gun arm weapon reticles are moving.
• Various crash and bug fixes.
• UPDATE: Fixed issue with Tessellation and some cables in Prague.

Release of DirectX 12 support in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided:
Users are able to utilize the awaited DirectX 12 Graphics API. To activate this you are required to do the following:

• Within your Steam Library, right-click on Deus Ex: Mankind Divided.
• Select ‘properties’ from the context menu and navigate to the Beta tab.
• From the dropdown menu, select dx12_preview then close the window.

After the game has downloaded the DirectX 12 supported build you can then toggle DirectX 12 from either the launcher window or from the Display options within the game.
Note that DirectX 12 requires a restart of the game if (de-)activated from within a running Deus Ex: Mankind Divided game session.

o WARNING: Using the DirectX 12 API can offer better performance on some systems, however, it will not be beneficial on all.
o Multi-GPU is not yet supported in this patch.
o If you encounter problems with DirectX 12, we recommend turning it off again. There are no visual or gameplay differences between the two DirectX versions.
o Stereoscopic 3D with DX12 is supported on AMD, but on new windows versions “3D display mode” must be enabled through the Windows “Advanced display settings” menu.
o As always, make sure that your drivers are up to date.

The following fixes are in this patch for DX12:

• Fixed an issue where some object would appear black.
• Fixed a shadow issue.
• Improved DirectX 12 CPU usage.
• Various performance improvements and bug fixes.

Known DX12 issue:

• There is a known bug that causes some very high end cards to regress relative to DirectX11. Improvements have been made but this is being further investigated by the development team.

 

[mosdl]

With my 1070 the performance is a bit better in Prague, but I still see dips into 46fps walking around in certain spots.

DX12 hits 60 much more but the problem spots still see major dips.

 

[jorimt]

I can confirm Lens Flare is now working in the PC version, as of the latest patch:

In the instances they apply, Contact Hardening Shadows now seem to be working correctly, and no longer omit distant shadow maps (as was originally happening, visible here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=214763970&postcount=783).

CHS Off

CHS Ultra

Very High Shadows are still broken in Adam's apartment:

High Shadows

Very High Shadows

Finally, It's hard to say, but Very High Ambient Occlusion w/TAA appears to have much less flicker than it did in previous builds (though the lack of viewmodel coverage remains unchanged when compared to the High AO), and the smearing issued caused by Tessellation on affected NPC faces seems to be reduced, but not entirely eliminated. Tessellation also seems to apply to more objects (and more correctly) than it did before the patch.

@Dictator93, you've analyzed the AO and Tessellation issues more than I, so perhaps you'll be able to pick out the differences in more detail, if there are truly any to be had.

 

[Lister]

I can confirm Lens Flare is now working in the PC version, as of the latest patch:









In the instances they apply, Contact Hardening Shadows now seem to be working correctly, and no longer omit distant shadow maps (as was originally happening, visible here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=214763970&postcount=783).





Very High Shadows are still broken in Adam's apartment:





Finally, It's hard to say, but Very High Ambient Occlusion w/TAA appears to have much less flicker than it did in previous builds (though the lack of viewmodel coverage remains unchanged when compared to the High AO), and the smearing issued caused by Tessellation on affected NPC faces seems to be reduced, but not entirely eliminated. Tessellation also seems to apply to more objects (and more correctly) than it did before the patch.

@Dictator93, you've analyzed the AO and Tessellation issues more than I, so perhaps you'll be able to pick out the differences in more detail, if there are truly any to be had.

Is this on DX11 or 12?

 

[jorimt]

^ DX11.

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

With my 1070 the performance is a bit better in Prague, but I still see dips into 46fps walking around in certain spots.

DX12 hits 60 much more but the problem spots still see major dips.

Get the same thing in Prague. Nearly locked 60fps except for a couple spots that without fail bring the fps down to the 40s. Don't think there's anything they can or will do about that.

 

[SliChillax]

Two crashes for me after the update in system rift. After I booted the game for the third time, game was running at what felt like lower than 20fps.

 

[dr_rus]

Known DX12 issue:

There is a known bug that causes some very high end cards to regress relative to DirectX11. Improvements have been made but this is being further investigated by the development team.

Fixing Tobii EyeTracking is more important obviously.

 

[seph1roth]

Wait what? Is this game working ok on Nvidia with DX12?