Mikey Jr.
Member
Their cameras were better when they were streaming out of that little room.
It never looked as bad as EZA's.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Easy Allies |EZOT2| Love & Respect
- Thread starter Auctopus
- Start date
- Status
Their cameras were better when they were streaming out of that little room.
It never looked as bad as EZA's.
Is there seriously anyone who thinks otherwise?
Bloodworth
Member
I don't know how much perspective I can provide and I don't want to make things any muddier, but two thoughts.
First is that since our Patreon level has remained roughly consistent through the past few months without any giant leap post-launch, to me it doesn't seem like it should be that much of a surprise that our output has also remained in the same steady pace as well. Plus some things like Game Sleuth and the Retrospectives were challenging at GT so they're even more difficult to put together now.
Second is that I think people either forget or brush aside the fact that most of us are only part time still. That doesn't mean much for some of us that are working full time hours or more anyways, but that shouldn't be expected of anyone when their rent checks are on the line. If we could get to a place where Don and Ian could feel comfortable with doing Easy Allies full time, it would make a huge difference.
That said, I'm entirely grateful for any amount that you've given to let us keep doing this work. If you feel like the content doesn't match what you want to watch, I totally understand even if it's not always easy to hear.
First is that since our Patreon level has remained roughly consistent through the past few months without any giant leap post-launch, to me it doesn't seem like it should be that much of a surprise that our output has also remained in the same steady pace as well. Plus some things like Game Sleuth and the Retrospectives were challenging at GT so they're even more difficult to put together now.
Second is that I think people either forget or brush aside the fact that most of us are only part time still. That doesn't mean much for some of us that are working full time hours or more anyways, but that shouldn't be expected of anyone when their rent checks are on the line. If we could get to a place where Don and Ian could feel comfortable with doing Easy Allies full time, it would make a huge difference.
That said, I'm entirely grateful for any amount that you've given to let us keep doing this work. If you feel like the content doesn't match what you want to watch, I totally understand even if it's not always easy to hear.
They do but they're paying 9 people, not 5. Also KF gets more revenue from outside patreon with hosting sponsored events and stuff. They definitely have a lot more cash in their pockets.
Brian_FETO
Banned
They were also (probably) making more money from IGN and left the company on their own terms, allowing themselves to prepare financially
It makes sense to compare two similar Patreons but the situations are pretty different
Elfforkusu
Member
Weighing in on the neverending stars vs 1-10 review score debate:
I'd like to see it stay as is, it's fine.
I'd like to see it stay as is, it's fine.
Isn't the stars and the 1-10 system exactly the same? They give half star anyway.
Elfforkusu
Member
Correct, just semantics.
From what I gathered, basically everyone* Not that they would think II is bad, but many are in love with recruiting and building your army, which I personally fou nd to be a distraction. Maybe I exaggerate a bit tho.
*everyone being GAF I guess lol
Huber's also right in regards to ACII's mansion. Amazing hang-out hub. Man, the promise and mystery of its story/setting back then was truly engaging... :-/
I agree. Reviews are not that helpful when they come out after the game. Also, those reviews are mostly just a brief introduction followed by a scroe. People can get reviews from everywhere and they are not doing anything special. It's also the only part of their repertoire that doesn't have any personality, their biggest strength, involved. It also seems to take up too much resources.
I like what Frametrap is doing: just some guys sitting down talking about what games they've been playing. I want to hear personal opinions, how do they feel about a certain game instead of things I can read from the official site. Make it a weekly thing, talk more about new releases. It's more efficient, informative, and entertaining than the reviews we've got.
I think some people want the review just because that's what makes them "professional". Professional journalists don't jump up and down during press conference. I'm not criticizing though, I appreciate their enthusiasm and their opinions - as gamers, not journalists. They feel like that friend of yours who's also very into videogames, something many people don't have in real life. Reviews keep them away, not bring them closer.
Labrynian Rebel
Member
My patreon money is going in simply because Tabletop Escapades is the best part of my week. So long as that stays you don't have to worry about me canceling.
Mikey Jr.
Member
For reviews, I think it expands their audience. It gets people who have never heard of eza to check them out.
Having said that, I'd have no problem ditching them. A review a week after the game releases is kinda useless to me.
I'd rather have a few of them on the couch discussing what they think of the game before it releases, rather than a super polished review a week later. Just my 2 cents.
Having said that, I'd have no problem ditching them. A review a week after the game releases is kinda useless to me.
I'd rather have a few of them on the couch discussing what they think of the game before it releases, rather than a super polished review a week later. Just my 2 cents.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Down with reviews up with a new segment of Ben gushing over RPGs
Brad Grenz
Member
No kidding. KF obviously had significant sponsors lined up day one. All those brand new Origin PCs didn't materialize out of thin air. And they had been building up their non-gaming audience on YouTube and Patreon for a year before they left IGN.
It's unreasonable to expect EZA to be in the same place with 1/4 the time and 1/6th the money. The comparisons to Giant Bomb are even sillier. GB is backed by a multinational corporation, has offices on two coasts, employs three full time video produces plus four personalities, a community guy and who knows how many engineers.
AcademicSaucer
Member
I like their reviews tho, I wish they had animations like in the gametrailers days tho
Roberto Larcos
Member
I also love reviews. The only problem is with getting them out at the same time everyone else is - because if you miss that window, realistic, no-one is watching.
Hate how this thread is always filled with backseat managers. Really brings out the worst in people.
Hate how this thread is always filled with backseat managers. Really brings out the worst in people.
I remember Jason Schreier always mentioning - at least in Kotaku's case - they never saw a drop in readers, when there review would come out weeks after release.
Edit: Not saying this is a comparable situation per se, but I have suspicions it's not that bad after all. Maybe for the controversial game once in a while like No Man's Sky, but eh... (and of course, that one didn't even have pre-release copies)
brotkasten
Member
As someone who doesn't like reviews in general or find them particularly helpful, I wouldn't want them gone. While they're a holdover from the time at GT, they always bring exposure to the brand. I'm sure it makes a difference whether you show up on OpenCritic or not. When you say that it takes too much work, because they have to capture the footage, then you also have to understand that they might need that footage for a different project. They don't have that big archive anymore that they had at GT. Not to mention that having someone like Ben on the team and not let him write things, would be kind of a waste.
They had a show like this at GameTrailers. It's called Just Played. It was a usually a 1-on-1 conversation, with someone who had played a new game and another one interviewing that person. I really loved it and always thought it was more insightful than the reviews. But because of the different run-time, I also think that they complemented each other well. Just Played also covered games that didn't seem worthy of a full review, so that was great, too.
I get what you're saying, but I think it's a hard balance to strike. When does open, well-meant and valid criticism cross the line and become backseat managing? I think a little more transparency would help. But that's what the Cup of Jones is for. Or was? I stopped watching, after the episodes got longer and longer and then it wasn't even on a regular schedule anymore.
I could be wrong, but to me it seems that one of the issues in this thread is a Twitch vs. Produced Content sentiment. Some seem to be perfectly happy if they'd just stream all day, every day, for the rest of their lives. Others want them to go back to the glory days of GT, which is not going to happen anytime soon, if ever.
e: On a different note, I'd like to give a thumbs up to whoever brought up Twitch/stream highlights again. I'd absolutely love it. For example, I often feel completely left out of this community, because whenever great moments in streams come up, I have absolutely no idea what's going on. Now I understand that not everything has to cater to everyone, but I think it would be a good opportunity to get the different audiences to overlap a little more. In theory, you could even have the highlights send in by the fans, as they'd probably know best what moments stood out the most. But this is just some rambling (or maybe even fits the perfect definition of backseat managing).
They had a show like this at GameTrailers. It's called Just Played. It was a usually a 1-on-1 conversation, with someone who had played a new game and another one interviewing that person. I really loved it and always thought it was more insightful than the reviews. But because of the different run-time, I also think that they complemented each other well. Just Played also covered games that didn't seem worthy of a full review, so that was great, too.
I get what you're saying, but I think it's a hard balance to strike. When does open, well-meant and valid criticism cross the line and become backseat managing? I think a little more transparency would help. But that's what the Cup of Jones is for. Or was? I stopped watching, after the episodes got longer and longer and then it wasn't even on a regular schedule anymore.
I could be wrong, but to me it seems that one of the issues in this thread is a Twitch vs. Produced Content sentiment. Some seem to be perfectly happy if they'd just stream all day, every day, for the rest of their lives. Others want them to go back to the glory days of GT, which is not going to happen anytime soon, if ever.
e: On a different note, I'd like to give a thumbs up to whoever brought up Twitch/stream highlights again. I'd absolutely love it. For example, I often feel completely left out of this community, because whenever great moments in streams come up, I have absolutely no idea what's going on. Now I understand that not everything has to cater to everyone, but I think it would be a good opportunity to get the different audiences to overlap a little more. In theory, you could even have the highlights send in by the fans, as they'd probably know best what moments stood out the most. But this is just some rambling (or maybe even fits the perfect definition of backseat managing).
Bloodworth
Member
From what I've seen both here and at GT is that yes, hitting that first moment of embargo will make a big difference. However, the late reviews still don't do that bad in the overall scheme of things. They do just as well or better than many episodes of our shows. There's definitely an audience out there that will watch a review whenever it's made, and quite a few who will watch any review we put out even if they're not interested in the game.
Bloodworth we appreciate you and understand your circumstances. I need to emphasize that such discussions do not take into account that you guys are reading and is mainly meant for the community.
That's the third "watch people play games" channel that I subscribe to, although mostly only for fighting game coverage.
brotkasten
Member
As a wise man once said, "A delayed review is eventually good, but a rushed review is forever bad." I think his name was Franklin D. Roosevelt or something.
I really appreciate that you guys don't buckle down to the pressure and get the reviews out whenever you can. Is Brandon still the only one who edits them?
Bloodworth
Member
Brandon still edits most of them, but Don and Ian will step in when they can. Don cut the Battlefield review this week, and will most likely cut World of Final Fantasy. Hoping Ian might be able to help with Civ VI.
Keep doing the reviews. You guys are the best in the biz when it comes to video reviews, it's been like that since the GT days.
And like Blood says above, even if the review is "late", or of a game genre I'm not interested in, I still enjoy watching it. I'm not alone on this.
And like Blood says above, even if the review is "late", or of a game genre I'm not interested in, I still enjoy watching it. I'm not alone on this.
Yeah I wouldn't personally mind if they didn't stream on Twitch but instead used that little time for something more productive. They mostly stream from their homes to my knowlegde so it's easy for them to create content that way, since they don't share a studio. So it still makes sense to do that. And it's not about me anyway, what I want them to do. I would still support the Patreon and watch their content even if they went more to "Let's play" and "reaction youtuber" category, but I wouldn't be very happy about it. They are better than that and I want them to fully utilize their skillsets. So that includes reviews, retros and such. Just like you said about Ben and his writing talent going to waste if they would drop the reviews for example. As you said not everything has to directly cater to you or me. I would still get the podcasts for example and someone else gets to see what they enjoy. Win Win situation! I don't usually tell people what they shouldn't do regarding what they produce, since it's their own choice to do. But I like to share my own ideas and hopes in case they have time, resources and especially interest to do something like it.
I agree on the appreciation and understanding part. But I think everyone is well aware that some of EZA are reading and participating in this thread. That's exactly why I asked the person dropping their pledge to give specific criticism. To give feedback, I think that's one reason why creators follow youtube comments, forum discussions and such. I also hope that this thread would be better (it is) than Youtube comments and people share their opinions in respectful and more helpful manner than what might happen in tube comments. I mean, what's the point to drop into the thread and tell us that they aren't gonna support in Patreon anymore without telling why they don't feel it's worth it. Do we need to know when someone does or doesn't support them through Patreon, not really. Could it be helpful and informative to EZA crew explain why, yes. We are yet to see if the Tales from the East get's it name changed. But if it does, it was directly a reaction to comment in this thread that went further than "I don't like the name."
Edit: And really thanks Blood for all the work you guys do for us and also you, Damiani and Ben participating in this thread too! It's all appreciated.
Strongly disagree with the bolded, not everyone wants to or can buy a game on day one.
No, it's not semantics. The argument was (pretty sure it's settled now) between a 10 point scale and GT's old 100 point scale.
GT used scores like 9.6 which means there are 100 points to the scale. EZA uses 5 stars with half stars which is a 10 point scale.
It's worked out fine though, only with moments like Ratchet & Clank where it cause any controversy.
Ratchet & Clank should've been a flat 3/5 anyway.
brotkasten
Member
The review came out Friday and already sits on 13k views. The other reviews are usually at least over 20k. To say that people don't care is just wrong.
People might watch them, but that doesn't mean they care.
After the universal meh that game got, was Ben's review really needed over a month after release?
As I said, they're good when the embargo lifts, but I think it's a waste of time when you're putting out a review of a month old game.
Potentially yes. If i find an outlet or reviewer with similar tastes to me i'd rather wait to see what they say.
It's like films, I'd rather wait for a few post release reviews (unless I'm really excited about something) than go with the empire magazine, tabloids etc reviews that almost always appear first.
I can understand the finding a reviewer you like point, but having to wait over a month for it is far too long. Especially when Ben is one of the full-timers.
Grayfox341
Member
I'm not happy the ReCore review is so late either, but there are valid reasons why it was delayed. Timeliness is something we're all working on, and I think it will continue to improve. The Titanfall 2 review is coming out today, a day before release because we were given it well ahead of time in order to put things together.
I didn't get access to the full version of Civ VI until the day it came out. I can't get a full review of it out by release for obvious reasons.
People don't always understand the circumstances behind situations and it's frustrating to see them assume everything. We don't have the same benefits as a big outlet like IGN. Not anymore.
I was about to mention that Bloodworth has mentioned several times on podcasts that despite a large following, EZA doesn't swing the same weight as its contemporaries and doesn't always receive the same games as other outlets either at the same time or at all.
Try not to make an assumption about ~13k people at once. There are some people out there who aren't as switched on as the average Gaffer and still turn to YouTube reviews for the majority of their gaming opinion. There's still worth in the critique of a game and the use of gaming reviews as exposure.
Also, this thread is dangerously close to becoming an echo chamber where people consider the dozen or so people who post in here's opinion as the mindset of the entire EZA fanbase. I donate/give the money to EZA each month so they can do what they feel is best with it. A horse by committee is a camel.
Try not to make an assumption about ~13k people at once. There are some people out there who aren't as switched on as the average Gaffer and still turn to YouTube reviews for the majority of their gaming opinion. There's still worth in the critique of a game and the use of gaming reviews as exposure.
Also, this thread is dangerously close to becoming an echo chamber where people consider the dozen or so people who post in here's opinion as the mindset of the entire EZA fanbase. I donate/give the money to EZA each month so they can do what they feel is best with it. A horse by committee is a camel.
I review games myself Ben so I completely understand the frustration of receiving a game on its day of release for review.
It's great that the Titanfall 2 review is hitting embargo, that'll do well. Let's hope the ReCore review was just an outlier as the team works on getting content pushed out quicker.
Grayfox341
Member
In an effort to get things out more quickly, I've been trying to stream games on or around launch day, such as what I did with Paper Mario and Gears. I know not everyone likes streaming and I know my streams are often plauged with tech issues, but it's me trying to have something as opposed to nothing.
I want to get reviews out more quickly. Very, very badly. It's something I'm really striving for throughout November.
Anyway, I appreciate the critical discussion. It's helpful. Knowing what you want and what's bothering you is important. The fact that you're all generally pretty civil is helpful as well.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Your streams are excellent, don't feel discouraged.
Those numbers to me say Patreons mostly checking it out rather than the new/casual viewers from the fishing trip reviews are there for.
Those numbers to me say Patreons mostly checking it out rather than the new/casual viewers from the fishing trip reviews are there for.
I think simply streaming some games and offering your thoughts instead of doing a full on review would be good enough for a lot of titles, especially in busier months. That should allow some of you to identify a select few games you really want to dive in to and give the full works to.
Bloodworth
Member
Because "past broadcasts" get auto-deleted after a period of time, I create "highlights" to save them permanently. Now Twitch has redone their videos section so that it shows all videos by default, which puts the original "past broadcast" and the trimmed "highlight" side by side.
I'll add my vote for the traditional video reviews we have been getting so far. I think they are the flagship videos besides the podcasts. Those are also great way for me to spread EZA to people who don't follow their content regularly. They are high quality in writing, editing and narrating. Also not as long as discussion videos could be so they are easy to digest. Glad to see them being uploaded so close to games release. I also wouldn't mind the just played format coming back in some fashion when and if you guys have time for them. Altough Frame Trap usually covers that, which is fine too.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Frame Trap
when
when
Bloodworth
Member
I mean, that's more than double the number of patrons to begin with, but yes there are definitely new people finding us even through the ReCore review. Saying reviews are there for "fishing" isn't really fair to begin with, although they do seem to be the most effective in those regards.
For the review discussion in general, yes they benefit us in multiple ways across the board from publisher relations to reaching a new audience, but they're also something we absolutely love to do. I can certainly have a valuable conversation with Ben about a game, but it's particularly satisfying to get the right shots, make that shot log, write a script, and craft a video that specifically says and shows everything I have to say about that game. With Brandon's brilliant voice driving it, I know my words are what's being heard, not my own awkwardness fumbling to read over a script or my saying "like, you know" a hundred times while trying to formulate an idea while on camera. And I'd still contend that very few outlets put in the type of detailed footage that we do. There's no way that I personally would stop doing reviews.
Exactly, keep doing what you love to do. Don't mind the few naysayers here. We appreciate the reviews you put out! Even the late ones. Best in the biz.
Scrotum Phillips
Member
I'll throw my 2 cents in here as well:
- I really think there should be a general podcast thread on the main board for the main podcast/Frame Trap, similar to how the Kinda Funny/Giant Bomb one operate. I think having conversation only in this thread causes it to fall under the radar and not get the "boost" that people seeing "Easy Allies" on the general gaming board might bring. Plus, there's always like 6 separate conversations going on at once here so it would be less jumbled.
-Probably not going to get it's own thread, but I actively avoid this thread when i'm not up to date with TTE. I've been pretty bummed the few times i've gotten things spoiled when i nonchalantly check out this thread to read about anything else EZA might be up to.
-On reviews: I love them and think they're the best, but i'd really either prioritize them to get done closer to release date or just upload a "quicklook" type of thing if you want your thoughts out there on something without going through the extensive process of making a review.
- I really think there should be a general podcast thread on the main board for the main podcast/Frame Trap, similar to how the Kinda Funny/Giant Bomb one operate. I think having conversation only in this thread causes it to fall under the radar and not get the "boost" that people seeing "Easy Allies" on the general gaming board might bring. Plus, there's always like 6 separate conversations going on at once here so it would be less jumbled.
-Probably not going to get it's own thread, but I actively avoid this thread when i'm not up to date with TTE. I've been pretty bummed the few times i've gotten things spoiled when i nonchalantly check out this thread to read about anything else EZA might be up to.
-On reviews: I love them and think they're the best, but i'd really either prioritize them to get done closer to release date or just upload a "quicklook" type of thing if you want your thoughts out there on something without going through the extensive process of making a review.
Grayfox341
Member
I got a late start on FT because of Titanfall. It will be today, but will probably drop in the early evening. Usually takes 4-6 hours to fully upload.
The_Original_Snitch
Neo Member
That is a fan-made shirt. I don't remember who made it, but I do remember him receiving it as a gift on one of the Tuesday night group streams. Surely someone on here will remember exactly who made it.
- Status