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[Trojita]

I wonder how a Panasonic or Sony OLED consumer TV if made (rumors are Sony might reveal one at CES 2017) will improve over the LG's. We know that Quantum Dots type technology + OLED panel is supposed to be the best hypothetically you could get. Right now LG's sit at a top tier level because of OLED, but everyone that has followed TV's for a long time knows that while they have been a supplier for a lot of companies, their TV outputs have been B or C tier at best.

I've always appreciated Sony's high end TV picture quality and wonder if they'd hit one out of the park with an OLED that looks even better than the LG offerings. Same with Panasonic.

 

[Kyoufu]

I wonder how a Panasonic or Sony OLED consumer TV if made (rumors are Sony might reveal one at CES 2017) will improve over the LG's. We know that Quantum Dots type technology + OLED panel is supposed to be the best hypothetically you could get. Right now LG's sit at a top tier level because of OLED, but everyone that has followed TV's for a long time knows that while they have been a supplier for a lot of companies, their TV outputs have been B or C tier at best.

I've always appreciated Sony's high end TV picture quality and wonder if they'd hit one out of the park with an OLED that looks even better than the LG offerings. Same with Panasonic.

Well so far, Panasonic failed to beat LG with their first OLED. All eyes on Sony next month!

 

[jotun?]

The KS8000 looks almost perfect.. except for that stand. Wish they would give an option between the 4-legs thing and a normal base that can rotate and actually fit on my TV stand.

 

[dallow_bg]

I thought the Panasonic OLED was better?
At least from the one review I read. However it is several times more expensive than LG's model. (premium leather wrapped back tho)

We have no doubt that CZ950 offers reference-class picture quality and in several areas it is superior to LG EG960

While previous OLED TVs have showed promise, Panasonic’s TX-65CZ952 represents a turning point, because it’s the first time that we’ve been able to appreciate a big-screen Ultra HD OLED display without being discouraged by colour accuracy issues, greyscale contouring artefacts, or obvious luminance non-uniformity errors in dark scenes. Panasonic’s video processing and panel driver combined with LG Display’s OLED is the combination we’ve been waiting for, and while the CZ952/ CZ950 is not a perfect product, it still produces the overall best image we’ve seen from a TV.

 

[Kyoufu]

I thought the Panasonic OLED was better?
At least from the one review I read. However it is several times more expensive than LG's model. (premium leather wrapped back tho)

Price matters a lot here because this TV still costs more than LG's 2016 OLEDs. lol

It's not even available in flat form. I can't accept this from Panasonic.

 

[The Beard]

Me neither, but if true, i will preorder the minute they are announced.

I would at least wait until it gets reviewed first.

 

[jstevenson]

So Sony is pretty much confirmed to be launching OLEDs in 2017.
2000$/3000$ for the 55-/65-inch model sounds really low.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1481099273

prices seem low, but I mean, look at what LG has been selling their OLEDs for recently.

The E6 was a 6000 dollar TV 6 months ago that can be found for 3k-ish now.

I would expect it to start more like 3k and 4k for Sony, but rapidly lowering OLED prices can't be a big surprise

 

[dallow_bg]

prices seem low, but I mean, look at what LG has been selling their OLEDs for recently.

The E6 was a 6000 dollar TV 6 months ago that can be found for 3k-ish now.

I would expect it to start more like 3k and 4k for Sony, but rapidly lowering OLED prices can't be a big surprise

I heard the profit margin was huge for LG so there is definitely room.

 

[Kyoufu]

Someone please make a 75" OLED for 4 digits.

 

[jstevenson]

I heard the profit margin was huge for LG so there is definitely room.

yeah, LG wouldn't be selling these now at the prices they are if they were losing money.

LG was making a toooooooooon on them early on. And why note, they had the best TV and people were willing to pay.

But now OLED is about to go mass market, hence LG selling panels to Panny / Sony to make their own TVs.

I'm assuming though, LG will manage to stay cheaper than those two, with a TV that's nearly as good (or still better) - and probably with minimal difference after calibration (and even less scaling disadvantages if you get an amp with a good scaler)

 

[GametimeUK]

I'm after a new TV, but I have no idea what I'm looking for. I'm kind of stuck because I have to buy it from Argos since I get discount there and 12 months buy now pay later. Can anyone give me a hand? I just want a decent 4k TV that doesn't have too much blur and input lag. Looking to spend as little as possible, but 600 to 900 is a sweet spot.

 

[Theonik]

Especially after the price they put on the ZD9.

OLED isn't Sony's flagship. They are rolling at Z9E next year or rather a replacement.

 

[The Beard]

yeah, LG wouldn't be selling these now at the prices they are if they were losing money.

LG was making a toooooooooon on them early on. And why note, they had the best TV and people were willing to pay.

But now OLED is about to go mass market, hence LG selling panels to Panny / Sony to make their own TVs.

I'm assuming though, LG will manage to stay cheaper than those two, with a TV that's nearly as good (or still better) - and probably with minimal difference after calibration (and even less scaling disadvantages if you get an amp with a good scaler)

They weren't making a ton of money off them though.

When you factor in R&D and the all of the manufacturing issues (initial panel yields were around 30%), it's a miracle OLED consumer TV's are even still around.

 

[BumRush]

This thread always makes me so excited about CES. It's going to be insane this year.

 

[Kyoufu]

This thread always makes me so excited about CES. It's going to be insane this year.

This is going to be a pivotal year for HDR. Should see the tech not only improve at the high-end but also low end budget TVs should have respectable performance. Maybe we'll even see 4K HDR monitors as well.

I'm pretty excited.

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

So I returned the LG 43UH6030 last night and picked up the 43" x800d. What a night and day difference between the two sets. Titanfall 2 absolutely blew my mind when I got the settings down for it.

I did see though that the Samsung ku6500 55" curved tv was on sale for 699 though and that was very tempting as well...how does that TV stack up against the x800d or really any other 4k TV in that price range?

I'm thinking about returning this Vizio E-Series I bought on Monday for this one. On Rtings.com it got about a 7.4 but at least this TV supports HDR. I'm definitely returning the TV I bought monday for something with HDR.

Pretty disappointed in that E-Series Vizio 4K TV I bought. It seems like the brightness goes in and out and i don't have auto brightness on. Lots of issues with it.

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

Someone please make a 75" OLED for 4 digits.

LG will release a 77 this year

I'm sure it will be 6k or less by Christmas

 

[BumRush]

This is going to be a pivotal year for HDR. Should see the tech not only improve at the high-end but also low end budget TVs should have respectable performance. Maybe we'll even see 4K HDR monitors as well.

I'm pretty excited.

Agreed.

 

[dallow_bg]

LG will release a 77 this year

I'm sure it will be 6k or less by Christmas

They released the 77" version earlier this year.
It hasn't budged from it's $20k price though.

 

[jstevenson]

They released the 77" version earlier this year.
It hasn't budged from it's $20k price though.

yeah the complexity on the panels means the cost hits the exponential curve after 65

 

[spwolf]

prices seem low, but I mean, look at what LG has been selling their OLEDs for recently.

The E6 was a 6000 dollar TV 6 months ago that can be found for 3k-ish now.

I would expect it to start more like 3k and 4k for Sony, but rapidly lowering OLED prices can't be a big surprise

rumored price and number of units anticipated to be sold dont match... i expect them to be 2x the price and maybe cheaper model to be available mid-late year.

 

[BumRush]

Need your help GAF...

I'm in the process of buying a house. The builder of the house wired 2x HDMI (1.4) behind the wall - since the TV will be above a gas fireplace (this is where the TV is staying) - and the only way to get at them is to open the wall. The electrician is doing a walk through soon, and I was thinking about asking him to open the wall up to rewire, replacing the 2x 1.4s with 3x 2.0s.

Do I really need HDMI 2.0?

Is there any reason to expect a major revision above 2.0 in the next 3-4 years?

 

[Geneijin]

I accidentally stumbled upon a revelation recalibrating my OLED55C6P, but I didn't realize the yellowy whites people complain about with a Warm2 color temperature could be because Red tends to be overly saturated in the high end. And when you typically track the out of box performance of Warm2 for any TV, the grayscale will show this. Warm1 and cooler color temperatures is part marketing and partly because it's a cheaper, inaccurate way to present whites as white without spending the necessary R&D costs like what Panasonic did for its Kuros to maintaining a low avg (very low) dE of 1 instead of 3-5 right out of the box. People don't realize how good budget TVs are nowadays when you have something like the Sony X800D and the Samsung KS8000 access 2 and 10 point white balance user controls without using the service menus.

 

[III-V]

Need your help GAF...

I'm in the process of buying a house. The builder of the house wired 2x HDMI (1.4) behind the wall - since the TV will be above a gas fireplace (this is where the TV is staying) - and the only way to get at them is to open the wall. The electrician is doing a walk through soon, and I was thinking about asking him to open the wall up to rewire, replacing the 2x 1.4s with 3x 2.0s.

Do I really need HDMI 2.0?

Is there any reason to expect a major revision above 2.0 in the next 3-4 years?

That's a tough question, but I do expect a revision to 2.0 soon. That being said, I think the current HDMI 2.0 cable should be able to handle the added bandwidth of dynamic metadata.

You need 2.0 to reliably get 4K/60hz, like what the Pro puts out.

That being said, you can also come across high quality 1.4 cables at shorter lengths that can handle current 2.0 bandwidths.

Now, when HDMI 2.0 gets revved, I expect the main changes to come from the input/output ports, and hopefully in most cases can be updated with a firmware revision.

I would probably put some new certified (or tested by you) cables back there. He may be able to just replace without ripping the wall out by stringing it thru.

I accidentally stumbled upon a revelation recalibrating my OLED55C6P, but I didn't realize the yellowy whites people complain about with a Warm2 color temperature could be because Red tends to be overly saturated in the high end. And when you typically track the out of box performance of Warm2 for any TV, the grayscale will show this. Warm1 and cooler color temperatures is part marketing and partly because it's a cheaper, inaccurate way to present whites as white without spending the necessary R&D costs like what Panasonic did for its Kuros to maintaining a low avg (very low) dE of 1 instead of 3-5 right out of the box. People don't realize how good budget TVs are nowadays when you have something like the Sony X800D and the Samsung KS8000 access 2 and 10 point white balance user controls without using the service menus.

True but no CMS or multi-point gamma control on the Sony

My 3 year old $1200 projector has all this.

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

They released the 77" version earlier this year.
It hasn't budged from it's $20k price though.

I was talking about 2017 model and the 2016 wasn't sold in the us until September

 

[BumRush]

That's a tough question, but I do expect a revision to 2.0 soon. That being said, I think the current HDMI 2.0 cable should be able to handle the added bandwidth of dynamic metadata.

You need 2.0 to reliably get 4K/60hz, like what the Pro puts out.

That being said, you can also come across high quality 1.4 cables at shorter lengths that can handle current 2.0 bandwidths.

Now, when HDMI 2.0 gets revved, I expect the main changes to come from the input/output ports, and hopefully in most cases can be updated with a firmware revision.

I would probably put some new certified (or tested by you) cables back there. He may be able to just replace without ripping the wall out by stringing it thru.

Thanks for the response. I'm hoping he doesn't have to open the wall up, but - like you said - I'd rather get some proper new cables back there, one way or the other.

When you say firmware update, you mean on the device, not the cable

 

[x3sphere]

Yeah some 1.4 cables pass 2.0 bandwidth fine. Depends on the quality. I don't think there's a surefire way of knowing without trying them out though.

I have some 3-4 year old cables that work with the PS4 Pro, as well as my PC, with 4K/HDR. They are short ones at only 10ft though

 

[BumRush]

Yeah some 1.4 cables pass 2.0 bandwidth fine. Depends on the quality. I don't think there's a surefire way of knowing without trying them out though.

I have some 3-4 year old cables that work with the PS4 Pro, as well as my PC, with 4K/HDR. They are short ones at only 10ft though

Yeah, I just don't have anything to test with lol. Waiting until we move in to buy the OLED, pro, etc.

Since there are only 2 HDMI cables, I may just bite the bullet and put 3 brand new cables in there that I purchase.

 

[dallow_bg]

I was talking about 2017 model and the 2016 wasn't sold in the us until September

Oh then no way.

 

[The Beard]

Yeah, I just don't have anything to test with lol. Waiting until we move in to buy the OLED, pro, etc.

Since there are only 2 HDMI cables, I may just bite the bullet and put 3 brand new cables in there that I purchase.

What do you need 3 for? Can't you just put an AV receiver with 4 or 5 HDMI inputs in the cabinet, and connect it to the ARC input on your TV?

 

[III-V]

When you say firmware update, you mean on the device, not the cable

Right, the device.

Here is hoping.

 

[BumRush]

What do you need 3 for? Can't you just put an AV receiver with 4 or 5 HDMI inputs in the cabinet, and connect it to the ARC input on your TV?

I guess I could, but I didn't plan on buying a receiver for a while (new house plus furnishing the entire thing plus 2 daughters and pretty lofty savings / retirement/ pay for my kids' colleges goals = prioritizing a receiver and sound system later)

Edit: when I do get a receiver I want to do it right

 

[The Beard]

I guess I could, but I didn't plan on buying a receiver for a while (new house plus furnishing the entire thing plus 2 daughters and pretty lofty savings / retirement/ pay for my kids' colleges goals = prioritizing a receiver and sound system later)

Edit: when I do get a receiver I want to do it right

Makes sense. As long as it's not a pain to install an extra line, that'd probably be your best bet. You could also get an HDMI splitter if running an extra line is too complicated.

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

Holyshit man! Returned my Vizio 4K tv and picked up that curved Samsung 6500 for $699.99. Totally blown away by the difference. I can't believe how much better it looks. Even without hdr on it looks really good, but turning hdr on while playing FFXV was so great! I can't believe this is like a cheaper version of what HDR can do. It looks soooo much better. Watched a little bit of secret life of pets with my son and i had the biggest smile on my face. I'll be up all night messing with this thing.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38242187

Lucky Europe Panny owners

 

[Theonik]

yeah the complexity on the panels means the cost hits the exponential curve after 65

It's not just that, increases in linear size of the panel mean exponential increases in material costs and larger panels are harder to transport and manufacture due to their size. Moreover, these big panels are made in very low volumes compared to their 65" equivalents. LG makes the 75" to order pretty much why cost is so high. Kinda similar in that sense to the 100" ZD9. (which still has more that $10k in margin mind)

 

[Backfoggen]

So Sony is pretty much confirmed to be launching OLEDs in 2017.
2000$/3000$ for the 55-/65-inch model sounds really low.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1481099273

Even if they suck a bit, at these prices they would put some pressure on LG to stop going mental with theirs.

 

[mrklaw]

OLED isn't Sony's flagship. They are rolling at Z9E next year or rather a replacement.

they're going to find that difficult to position if they aren't very careful.

Super thin, infinite contrast Vs thicker FALD screen with lots, but still limited dimming zones? Assuming both have similar Sony picture processing the picture should be great on both - ZD9E will really only have brightness as an advantage so are they going to put all their eggs in the HDR basket?

If that pricing rumour is even slightly true, their OLEDs will be half the price of the ZD9E

 

[mrklaw]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38242187

Lucky Europe Panny owners

wait, whats HLG? Yet another minefield to navigate?

 

[Kyoufu]

wait, whats HLG? Yet another minefield to navigate?

Hybrid Log-Gamma is a HDR format for broadcast television developed by the BBC and NHK.

The good news is it doesn't need new hardware. It should be available to current TV owners via a firmware update.

 

[Backfoggen]

Only have a German source for now but it seems like the HDMI people will make an important announcement on January 4th
http://m.heise.de/newsticker/meldun...s-HDR-und-haerterer-Kopierschutz-3565674.html
Hopefully it's in regards to dynamic HDR so it can be implemented for 2017 TVs.

 

[Theonik]

they're going to find that difficult to position if they aren't very careful.

Super thin, infinite contrast Vs thicker FALD screen with lots, but still limited dimming zones? Assuming both have similar Sony picture processing the picture should be great on both - ZD9E will really only have brightness as an advantage so are they going to put all their eggs in the HDR basket?

If that pricing rumour is even slightly true, their OLEDs will be half the price of the ZD9E

The ZD9 was also thicker and considerably more expensive than the XD94. It all comes down to performance. The ZD9 while record breaking didn't really compare to the CES prototype of the same set they showed that could hit 2800nits or more.

 

[Art Vandilay]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38242187

Lucky Europe Panny owners

It's funny how the pic at the bottom says The Grand Tour can be streamed on Amazon. BBC screwed up firing Clarkson.

 

[Kyoufu]

The ZD9 was also thicker and considerably more expensive than the XD94. It all comes down to performance. The ZD9 while record breaking didn't really compare to the CES prototype of the same set they showed that could hit 2800nits or more.

I don't want a TV to hit 2800 nits or more, personally. The ZD9's peak brightness is already too much for some people.

 

[b0bbyJ03]

Just a heads up to all those with the LG OLEDs, I tried playing Netflix on the PS4 Pro and noticed that the picture was much better. Way less noise in the dark scenes then when using the built in app. Highly recommend it unless you want to watch DV content.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

wait, whats HLG? Yet another minefield to navigate?

Panasonic are basically the first on board, I'm not even sure how they've managed it, as my new TV hasn't received a new firmware update since April, and apparently TV's will need updating, so go figure.

 

[Kyoufu]

Just a heads up to all those with the LG OLEDs, I tried playing Netflix on the PS4 Pro and noticed that the picture was much better. Way less noise in the dark scenes then when using the built in app. Highly recommend it unless you want to watch DV content.

What's your RGB Range setting? Full or Limited?

 

[b0bbyJ03]

What's your RGB Range setting? Full or Limited?

Limited. If you're using a TV you should always be using limited.

http://referencehometheater.com/2014/commentary/rgb-full-vs-limited/

 

[Kyoufu]

Limited. If you're using a TV you should always be using limited.

http://referencehometheater.com/2014/commentary/rgb-full-vs-limited/

It makes blacks look grey though.

edit: Actually, setting Black Level to Low on the TV's picture setting seems to correct this.

 

[BumRush]

New thread time?