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KS8000 settings for gaming at 4k/HDR
- Thread starter Haines
- Start date
Yo I just discovered that I can attach my Bluetooth headset to my TV and all my sound play through the headset. My wife now has nothing to complain about in terms of sound. Scary movies are now even more scarier with Bluetooth headsets. Any recommendations and Bluetooth headsets under $100?
Aces&Eights
Member
Didn't notice any juddering on the 30fps games. Seems to run really smooth, actually. Hope you get it sorted. (I'm usually sensitive to this stuff so I am pretty sure I would have noticed)
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
Is yours UK KS8000 or International?
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
No not movies and terestrial TV is perfect. My wife could barely notice it but for me its glaring at me. If you could upload a vid of various speeds on panning I'll see if I can see yours.
Have you a PS4? In theory I could let you remote play? If I added you as a friend.
Nah, only XB1, I'm afraid. Besides, that would show me the direct feed from the console rather than what we're seeing on the other's screen.
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
With my wife saying she barely notices it I'm starting to think I may be highly sensitive to this. As you say, dishonored and deus ex both do suffer from frame pacing coupled with maybe slower pixel response could be a bad mixture.
Ive tried the last of us locked at 30fps and rise of the tombraider and these look much better.
Is it just they hold their respective framerates?
Or is this TV so damn good that its actually pronouncing faults within the games themselves.
If the case bloodborne is going to be horrible. Which although framepacing aside, looked acceptable on my old LG.
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
OK Gaf,
Below are perfect examples of what I'm seeing.
This is with native TV YouTube app with auto motion set to auto.
You'll notice with 24fps / 25 fps / 30 fps I get bad artefacts towards edges of screen where literally the image breaks up:
24fps Judder test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4sn9c2vxRE
25fps Judder test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqRh7yAAUHE
30fps Judder test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwyn0gPuO80
60fps Judder test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaukqXKfrLU
These were played from Robert Smits youtube uploads @ https://www.youtube.com/user/BitPusher321
Are you experiencing the same?
Please bear in mind I get these artefacts in 4K HDR version of the Grand Tour on Amazon when they are driving through the desert on the opening sequence.
I DO NOT get these artefacts when in game mode but I get judder from the aforementioned games.
Below are perfect examples of what I'm seeing.
This is with native TV YouTube app with auto motion set to auto.
You'll notice with 24fps / 25 fps / 30 fps I get bad artefacts towards edges of screen where literally the image breaks up:
24fps Judder test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4sn9c2vxRE
25fps Judder test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqRh7yAAUHE
30fps Judder test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwyn0gPuO80
60fps Judder test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaukqXKfrLU
These were played from Robert Smits youtube uploads @ https://www.youtube.com/user/BitPusher321
Are you experiencing the same?
Please bear in mind I get these artefacts in 4K HDR version of the Grand Tour on Amazon when they are driving through the desert on the opening sequence.
I DO NOT get these artefacts when in game mode but I get judder from the aforementioned games.
Just tried the 30pfs one on mine and it judders not sure what to make of this. Is the TV no good and we have all been had by reviewers making a terrible mistake?
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
I'm sorry if I'm highlighting issues for people here. I simply don't know if this is a firmware issue, that has surfaced, can be fixed, if my TV is a dud or is part of the KS7000 (KS8000 int) TV set.
I'm baffled by all of this. After weeks of researching online and reading reviews NOT ONE reviewer mentioned what I'm / we going through.
Yeah mine is the KS7000 too. This is bad news
ss_lemonade
Member
You are getting artifacts because you have auto motion plus set to auto, and its probably trying to apply a certain amount of judder reduction to counter the low frame rate in those videos under 60 fps. It's worse the lower the framerate (24fps) because the interpolation becomes more aggressive, with the software trying to guess and build new frames. You get these artifacts in pretty much any TV that can do such interpolation (which is one of the reasons some people don't like it, together with increasing input lag and giving you the soap opera effect). You don't get them in game mode because Samsung prevents you from being able to access the whole Auto Motion Plus section. I wish they did though, and fixed the broken LED Clear Motion in the ks9000 since I would definitely be happy with game mode + black frame insertion
I get no juddering by the way with any of those videos on my ks9000.
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
I've contacted Samsung for clarification. Will be interesting to see what they come back with.
I don't know whether to take TV back and upgrade to KS8000 (KS9000 int) with the hope that resolves the issue with their supreme motion tech. If that TV produces same fault then that's an extra £400 wasted on top of the £850 I paid.
I really don't want to get rid of this TV. Its stunning. If only Samsung could address the lower fps problems the panel seems to have.
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
Good explanation. If this is expected of the TV then I know there isn't a problem and I can adjust my expectations accordingly.
Since its very little talked about I didn't know if it was just my panel.
You are indeed correct, would be nice to have the option of low latency gaming with Auto Motion to smooth out the image.
Although I don't know about you but the Black Frame insertion sticks out like a sore thumb with me. I see lights flickering when in the dark. I'm hyper sensitive it seems.
Are you saying then that as mentioned above that games running at 60fps are pure bliss, but games that hover around 30 I should be expecting judder because of this tech? If so, I can live with that until Sony/MS urge Devs to push for 60fps in their games more often. Or its a Developer choice. Either way, unless its rock solid 30fps or more, I can't buy the game.
Thank you very much, that is indeed a brilliant way to see it!
Thank you, too! I did the above mentioned test with the trophies icon, which got dark outlines when cranking up sharpness. I then decided to leave sharpness at 0. For now.
I've been rocking 0 sharpness for a couple of days, to see if I noticed any softening of the image across a variety of types of content, since that perception was what caused me to experiment with it in the first place. I came to the conclusion that 1080p and 4K still look as sharp as I'm used to with my sharpness at 20, but that I saw an improvement in SD content - which would make sense whether the TV was causing unwanted edge enhancement because my sharpness was too high, or because it's now artificially softening the image.
Planning to leave the setting at 0 for now, because it makes more sense to me that neutral sharpness would be 0; especially since we know it's 50 for PC mode - and more importantly, because enough people in this thread have tested their sharpness and found anything much above 0 to be too high. I'd say the results of individual testers support the conclusion that neutral sharpness is indeed 0 on this TV.
I'm going to hang out on the other side of the sharpness debate for now, at least until I feel like obtaining a 4K sharpness calibration image specifically designed for the purpose to play with. Honestly, the image looks amazing to me either way in actual use, but I trust the general consensus over my ability to calibrate things accurately, and if I can improve SD content without feeling like I'm losing anything from 4K content, I'm going to do it. Thanks to everybody who took the time to test their sharpness setting and post the results!
I tried all of those on the native YouTube app, and I don't see the artefacts or the juddering on mine at all, but I clearly see them on your videos.
ss_lemonade
Member
I've read about flickering issues with bfi. Interestingly, I have never had any issues when using it on my 120hz pc monitor via lightoost, or on my sony w900a (which is still pretty awesome since you can use both bfi and game mode at the same time). The implementation though on the ks9000 is apparently broken(?) as you barely (or do not at all) see any benefits when enabling the LED Clear Motion option, other than getting the negatives, which is the drop in brightness lol
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
Thanks Krang.
I guess I have to make the decision then whether to return the TV for exchange.
Damn, I hate boxing this stuff back up.
I don't suppose there's any chance you could upload a vid to youtube so I can show Curry's that there is indeed a problem with my panel. I would greatly appreciate it. Just on of the 24,25 or 30fps will do great.
Many thanks. If I get a replacement I'll let you know if the new TV has sorted out the issues.
It's worth noting that I have Auto Motion turned off. I've never felt like the extra processing adds anything to TV viewing.
ss_lemonade
Member
I'm at 0 too. I thought something was wrong after I reset my ps4's video settings back to 480p because all the text turned to looking like garbage (reminded me of those 2x sal filters in emulators). That default 50 sharpness was really strong lol
Jwebster24
Member
Do you get the same problem when you turn off auto motion off completely?
I think he said he has his consoles set to use game mode, which disables it completely. However, that wouldn't affect the YouTube app.
ss_lemonade
Member
Are you talking about judder reduction when you say "tech"? For TVs that can do interpolation, I have always seen random juddering when say, trying to turn a 30 fps game to 60 fps, or when watching a movie interpolated to a higher frame rate. It's probably because again, the TV's software is trying to create fake frames for you and this won't always be perfect. Disabling this though, you should not be getting any juddering issues, unless you had a really crappy TV maybe, or the game has frame pacing problems
d.cay
Neo Member
I think this is crucial here. For those of you with these judder-artifact-problems: it should be directly related to the settings in Auto Motion, I think. Try setting it to custom, with blur reduction max and Judder Reduction 0 and test it again. If you need at least a bit of judder reduction, try anything up to 3. But you might have to live with some artifacts then. I do not think that this is a problem of an individual panel but related to the way these processes work. But I could be wrong.
d.cay
Neo Member
Not to brag or something, but I think my little guide could be useful as a start. I edited it moments ago, but it was originally posted a few pages ago. So here I quote, for your convenience (to see the implemented quotes, please refer to the original post):
Since I digged into the whole settings- and HDR-stuff, I thought it might be helpful for some people if I wrote it down in a single post. I own the German model KS7090, which equivalent in the US should be the KS8000. There is a splendid post in a German forum on how to set up a Samsung-TV, which settings to avoid and so on, here is a link: http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-151-28898.html . The following information is based on that, mixed with own tests and other sources. There is no guarantee that it is 100 % accurate but it could give you a valuable headstart on how to get the best out of your new TV.
First of all: I think you should NOT simply copy other people’s settings, since even two devices assembled in the same factory on the same day can have differences on how they display the connected content. This is true especially for the 2- and 10-point white balance stuff. But this doesn’t mean that there aren’t some rules on how to get near a very good, natural looking picture without having to buy additional hardware to measure stuff.
Some considerations first: let your TV run for 15 minutes before you start the adjustments. Additionally, download the linked test-image (Edit: now in 4k: http://burosch.de/images/directdownload/06_Universaltestbild First-CheckUHD.jpg ) and put it on an USB-stick, we will need it later on. Then a hint concerning the resulting image on diplay: when you are finished with the settings and ready to give it a try with some gaming, tv-series or movies, give your eyes some time getting used to the maybe vastly different appearance. It might very well be that you were using a far too bright, colorful, over-sharpened setting and the new setup seems a little bit too red, dim and/or soft in comparison. But trust me: the latter one should be much nearer to a natural and pleasant look, it just needs some time to adjust and then you won’t miss the old crap one bit.
Additions concerning HDR: there seems to be a misconception when talking about HDR and you might have to adjust your expectations, otherwise you might tune the device into false directions. If you are unsure, maybe read something like the first post under this link (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...2442082-hdr-misconceptions-still-prevail.html ). To make it short: the way I understand it, HDR DOES NOT mean, that the picture in HDR suddenly has popping colors all over it and is bright as the sun. No, I think it is rather far more capable to use the available range in color and brightness more effectively, carving out more details that would otherwise drown in the whites of a sunny sky or the blacks of a nightly forest, so to say. I am no expert, but that is how I understand it. So if you are disappointed at first that the image in HDR suddenly gets dimmer and not flashy, even after calibrating the set with my tips, give it an honest try, I think you won’t miss a thing from SDR!
In the following section I will go through the different options piece by piece and give some information on how to tackle it. I won’t go into it too deep though, but I mention differences for SDR- versus HDR-content where I see fit.
Picture Mode: Movie
This should be the definite basis for all further adjustments, so better take it.
Special Viewing Mode: Game Mode On if you are sensitive to input lag in games, if not, then Off is fine
Picture Size:
Fit to screen should be On to not lose any picture information on the edges.
Backlight: 5 at night, maybe more by day.
This controls the brightness of the panel and you pretty much can set it up how you like. In HDR-mode, this should automatically turn to max (20) and that is the right way for that kind of content.
Brightness: let it on the default setting (should be 45 or something near that)
The default setting should be pretty much okay so you can leave it alone.
Contrast: let it on the default setting (should be 100 or something near that)
Contrast is the less important setting, compared to Brightness and should already be very good by default
Edit: Additional information from Aske, thank you!
Sharpness: 0 or something in the range up to 20
I personally would leave it at Zero, since there should not be any necessity for artificial sharpening of proper HD- or UHD-material. There might be a difference though when using PC-Mode: I’ve read that the equivalent setting there is 50 instead of 0, but I have no confirmation on that at the moment.
Edit: Another additional information from Aske.
Color: leave it on default (should be 50)
Color should be set up just fine ex factory.
Tint (G/R): leave it on default (should be G50/R50)
Digital Clean View: Off, maybe Auto
Leave it Off unless you see some annoying grain in the picture. But I would leave it Off.
Auto Motion Plus: Custom
- Blur Reduction: 10
- Judder Reduction: 1-3
- LED Clear Motion: Off
I personally like Auto Motion Plus, since it works very efficiently in removing judder when the camera pans. Blur Reduction can be set to max, but Judder Reduction should be not higher than maybe 5 to avoid the not so cool looking “Soap Opera Effect”. If you are not susceptible to judder in camera motion, then maybe leave it off.
Additionaly, you can test for artifacts in the judder-test-videos of this guy on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/BitPusher321 .
Focus on the edges of the screen and test, whether you see black pixelation/ tearing, something like that (I don't know what to call it exactly ^^). If you do and it bothers you, then reduce the Judder Reduction. Try it with game mode OFF though, since Auto Motion Plus is not available in that mode, as far as I know.
Smart LED: Low for SDR, High for HDR
Since it is available, Smart-LED should be used, even in SDR. I recommend Low for SDR. In HDR this should be High.
HDMI UHD Color: On for all HDMI-ports where HDR-content is available.
HDMI Black Level: Auto
PS4 for example should be set to the Auto concerning RGB. If you are not sure whether it works correctly, try switching the HDMI-Black-Level-setting and see if the picture suddenly gets washed out or too dark. It is important that the connected device and the TV are both in the right mode.
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Leave that off, you want to avoid as much artificial stuff on top of the signal as possible. There might be a wow-effect when using it in conjunction with HDR-material though (and I personally am not sure right now, whether it should be On in HDR-mode or not). I’ve tested it with The Grand Tour on Amazon Video and it seems that there is a loss of information in bright areas (when looking into the sun, it becomes a bright mess when DC is on). Right now I think is best turned OFF at all times to get the most natural picture!
Colour Tone: Warm2
Try the setting Warm2. If you think it is too red, don’t worry: on the one hand, this reaction is normal when coming from an unnatural cold setting. On the other hand, the following white balance can correct some unwanted tints in the white and grey spectrum. If you can’t stand the look of it no matter what, you can switch to Warm1.
White Balance:
Before adjusting anything here, be sure to set up Colour Tone (I recommend Warm2) and Colour Space (I recommend Auto)! For the adjustments, we need the test image from the beginning of the post on an USB-stick or something ( Edit: now in 4k: http://burosch.de/images/directdownload/06_Universaltestbild First-CheckUHD.jpg ). The goal is to remove any tint of grey and white shades that might have been introduced by our settings so far. And don’t worry, you don’t have to be an expert to get at least the most basic adjustments right.
- 2 Point:
This adjusts two ranges of brightness, the darker one (Offset) and the brighter one (Gain), separate for each color-channel red, green and blue. Start with the Gain-settings since they are more visible. Here, firstly focus on the Red and Blue-Gains, Green can have side-effects. I personally have just changed R-Gain and B-Gain for now, maybe I will put some more time into it in the future. So, load up the test image and adjust the R-Gain and then the B-Gain. The aim is a perfectly white background while keeping the skin tone of the women natural. A light warm touch in the whites is acceptable too. To get rid of a red cast it might be necessary to dial down the R-Gain or turning up the B-Gain, or a combination. Don’t get carried away though but try values in the range of +/- 10, or 15 tops. I for example settled (at the moment) with the following values, the rest being 0:
- R-Gain: -5
- B-Gain: 7
But again: don’t copy them but try to get it right for YOUR panel, it is worth it!
- 10 Point: Off
Unless you are an expert (why are you reading this then?
Gamma: -1, maybe -2
To make the Gamma higher, you have to go in the negative direction. I would recommend the setting -1
RGB Only Mode: Off, definitively
Colour Space: Auto
This setting should be fine for SDR- and HDR-content as well.
I hope my thoughts help some people and all of us a Merry Christmas!
Edit: test-image is now in 4k. Added additional information from other user, thank you!
Edit #2: in parts changed and added information in the Auto Motion Plus-section.
Link_enfant
Member
Okay, maybe that was due to a bad detection from either the TV or the PS4 Pro after updating the firmware, but yesterday for some reason everything became just fine.
Color Space on Auto now gives the right colors, nothing's washed out anymore and that looks amazing!
I don't think I did anything special, PS4 Pro settings are still all on Automatic.
Now I'm just wondering if anyone else is keeping Sharpness at the default 50 value?
On my 49" set it just looks great and it feels like reducing it artificially softens the picture.
Traxtech
Member
Second you leave game mode you get less than a acceptable lag. Trying to play a 30fps game outside of game mode on the KS8000 is just retarded and the delay is extremely pronounced
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
Amen.
d.cay
Neo Member
In game mode there is no Auto Motion Plus available, hence the judder-artifacts should not be a problem here. My explications refer to times when you are not in game mode.
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
Well with game mode on that as you know disables auto motion. But this introduces judder on 30fps games.
Granted though after further tests games that hold a solid 30fps such as last of us locked at 30 or tombraider or even ratchet and clank. These judder much less than say dishonored or deus ex.
If this TV is highlighting issues with those games I wont play them. But bloodborne also suffers framepacing which I beliebe will not bode well with this tv.
It seems you cant have your cake and eat it here. Gome mode less lag but judders. Game mode less judder but with artefacts and wayyy to much latency.
Its a damn shame cos 60fps games are a total dream
I think you're just mistaking framerate drops for "judder" tbh.
I've not had any colour separation for the last 10-15 hours on my PS4, across a mix of Uncharted 4, Watch Dogs, a bit of Infamous Last Light and Netflix using the PS4 app.
I have no idea if using a new HDMI cable made a difference or not. But if anyone's in the market, I went from an Amazon basics 2.0 model to this one:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00SWYTDJU/
I'm going to try to not look for judder and not download the test pattern. I've come to terms with the banding and DSE my set has, most of which I found because i really went looking for it.
But if I can't see it easily in every day use, perhaps that should be my litmus test.
I have no idea if using a new HDMI cable made a difference or not. But if anyone's in the market, I went from an Amazon basics 2.0 model to this one:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00SWYTDJU/
I'm going to try to not look for judder and not download the test pattern. I've come to terms with the banding and DSE my set has, most of which I found because i really went looking for it.
But if I can't see it easily in every day use, perhaps that should be my litmus test.
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
I wish that were true but that is not the case.
If I have Auto Motion on Amazon Prime Native app watching Grand Tour I get artefacts.
If I set to off or various levels of Custom judder settings I get judder. Unless we get frame pacing issues with TV programmes now.
stargateheaven
Member
the judder seems to be a thing on this TV, from all the one's i've checked. so i think it's just this TV.
i seem to have gotten used to it though..
i seem to have gotten used to it though..
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
If that is the case I can get my head around that and accept the limitations of the technology. I just didn't know if this is purely my set with issues.
stargateheaven
Member
well i've checked 3 or 4.. so there's still a chance it's our TVs..
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
Yeah fair comment. Im not going back to Currys 4 times.
I'll keep this TV until I can afford an OLED in a year or 2.
Any games that cant maintain a solid framerate of 30 or above will have to be shelved until then. 2016 we shouldn't be having issues like this and sub 30 framerates with games but thats another matter.
I'll try and do some videos later if I get the chance (a 2 month old means I won't be out for NYE!) of the judder videos you used, on my panel, so you can see what you think.
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
You're HERO many thanks fella!
ss_lemonade
Member
It doesn't bother me too much because I got used to playing on older TVs with extremely bad input lag (my mom's DLP set was terrible in this department). Surprisingly, my ks9000 seems to have better input lag outside game mode, both with and without judder reduction than my sony w900a in similar conditions.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Guys what is everyone's brightness set at in game mode. Mine was at 45. Also my ps4 defaults to 2160p rgb. Should it be yrgb or is rgb fine?
45-46 brightness for everything is fine, leave it there.
The jury is out on RGB vs. YUV for PS4, nobody's been able to conclusively prove that it makes much difference.
SilentTristero
Member
Just received my KS8000 this morning after months of anticipation. Don't let all the fine tuning in this thread scare you off. The info is super helpful, but it isn't difficult to select a configuration you'll most likely be delighted with. There are a lot of toggles to hone in on toward perfection, but after just a few hours of futzing around I'm already thrilled with this set. I've had a Pioneer Kuro plasma for the past 5 years too, so I'm no stranger to good TVs. Playing games on the KS8000 with the PS4 Pro feels like waking up on Christmas morning as a 8 year old kid. Hope everyone enjoys theirs as much as I like mine!
Ok, here's my videos:
24fps: https://youtu.be/RC_jJ0g7WNs
25fps: https://youtu.be/Y8Hb2guQksY
30fps: https://youtu.be/2O-B-Ai-ggQ
60fps: https://youtu.be/dT6KpfkQ8Qk
These are without any motion processing. For fun I put up the anti-judder to 3, and (as expected) I got artefacts in the periphery, the same as yours, but I didn't get the periodic skipping that you see - the motion looks largely the same as the above.
Aces&Eights
Member
US ks8000.
EDIT: So, everywhere I have been reading indicates Movie is the best setting to use fr regular TV and movies. I have used Cnets and others settings but the Movie mode darkens the image. When I put it on Natural then go tweak the backlight and brightness the image looks so much more crisp and vibrant. Maybe I am just conditioned to having things brighter. Anyone else using the Movie picture setting and getting great results? Can you post your other settings in addition to it?
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
Thank you for taking the time to do this.
I watched Lords of the Rings this evening hence my late reply. In fast moving scenes there was noticable judder and every now and again the image flickered.
I really think theres something wrong with this panel.
Watching house of cards on netflix had stutter aswell.
I'll return to Currys and either replace or upgrade to KS8000 or swap for another KS7000.
I'm terribly worried that this will repeat itself over and over.
I doubt Currys will give me a full refund to purchase from elsewhere.
If you're returning it anyway, I'd fight for that first, assuming you bought it less than 30 days ago:
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
Again, you've been a real help.
Thank you so much.
I'll keep you posted on how I get on.