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[Effect]

Taking risk is fine. Not trying to make a game something it shouldn't be is even better. I'd like to see MS do a single player game. That's the risk I'd like to see but they won't.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

i'm sure phil's a cool guy. but it's extremely obvious, at this point, that he speaks for himself, & not for ms. he never says 'we'...

I think saying "I" instead of "we" makes it more personal, like "We" is the company line and thus a bit more PR/disconnected. Whether there's any sincerity behind the use of "I" vs "we" remains to be seen.

And as others have said, Phil may be head of Xbox but there's only so much he can do. He doesn't call the shots 100% as Xbox is only a division of MS.

 

[Aizen.S.Kennedy]

Haha the coli.

 

[Zackat]

 

[Nightengale]

Do Coalition and i343 ahve the ability to make a new IP or propose it? Or is it in their contract to only work on those specific IP's?

Well, MS owns the company, they can amend the contracts or change the company name whenever they want.

The name 343 and Coalition is a clear indicator that the mentality around those studios is laser-focus on a single IP. So realistically it'll need to be a corporate or studio head mandate for them to entertain proposal of a new IP.

 

[hawk2025]

They don't vet the hire. They'd vet the info. Sources and such. I know when I had some 2nd hand "insider info" I took it to Bish first. He told me to hold onto it as it seems a risky thing to go with and very unlikely.

So I've never posted it.

I mean, how do you think they vet insiders? Take them at their word or something?

How about we don't go on a witch hunt of anyone that adds a tiny personal anecdote to a post?

Jesusz

 

[Kthulhu]

I told you, I don't work with the gaming division. Look at my username, and connect the dots...

You work at Cisco? Edit: or at least with their stuff?

 

[Matt]

From my experience, there's little difference between businessmen that have worked in the industry for decades and ones that haven't. There is no super art friendly corporation. There are good and bad producers but that's it, really... And everyone has good and bad producers. No company is different from the other. This sentiment is really silly.

Well that's obviously ridiculous. Companies can be and are very different from each other, even within the same industries.

 

[unknownstranger]

My guess is they'll try to buy another 3rd party (timed) exclusive like Tomb Raider. I'm not sure what they'd be able to get though. I think they'd be able of get Cyberpunk 2077 well before PS4 does but it's still so far off.

 

[Wedzi]

He would be able to greenlight it. There's no one higher than him in Xbox and he ultimately decides where the money gets invested.

Wait doesn't Phil answer to Terry Myerson? Or am I mistaken?

In 2015, Microsoft merged their Devices Group into the Operating Systems Group to form a new Windows and Device Group which is led by Myerson and which is responsible for Windows operating systems, Xbox system, Windows back-end services and the Surface and HoloLens lineup of hardware products.

 

[Fat4all]

They don't vet the hire. They'd vet the info. Sources and such. I know when I had some 2nd hand "insider info" I took it to Bish first. He told me to hold onto it as it seems a risky thing to go with and very unlikely.

So I've never posted it.

I mean, how do you think they vet insiders? Take them at their word or something?

But this is asking for personal information about a potential job hire, not insider information on a game or company.

 

[Voyr]

Taking risk is fine. Not trying to make a game something it shouldn't be is even better. I'd like to see MS do a single player game. That's the risk I'd like to see but they won't.

Why do they need to? Why wasn't something like Sunset OD risky?

 

[CCIE]

You work at Cisco? Edit: or at least with their stuff?

I am a Cisco specialist... you could say I majored in it. As for where I work, yes I work with their stuff. And MS, and VMware, and about every networking company out there. I have friends and clients at most of the major networking groups, as do most people in my position.

 

[Jigorath]

My guess is they'll try to buy another 3rd party (timed) exclusive like Tomb Raider. I'm not sure what they'd be able to get though. I think they'd be able of get Cyberpunk 2077 well before PS4 does but it's still so far off.

I don't think the Xbox division has the budget for things like that anymore.

 

[robotrock]

Why do they need to? Why wasn't something like Sunset OD risky?

take more risks plz

 

[messiaen]

Your only proving my point.....Companies are made up of people and they are all different....

My point is that you can have a good or bad experience at any of them. They're no different in that regard. Maybe I didn't say it well, but my point was that no company is going to offer you an inherently better/worse experience because of the name on the building.

 

[Bsigg12]

Do Coalition and i343 ahve the ability to make a new IP or propose it? Or is it in their contract to only work on those specific IP's?

I would think if Bonnie or Rod came to him with well pitched ideas and how they would handle it within their studios, he would consider them.

Wait doesn't Phil answer to Terry Myerson? Or am I mistaken?

There's no one higher in Xbox, not Microsoft.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

How about we don't go on a witch hunt of anyone that adds a tiny personal anecdote to a post?

Jesusz

But this is asking for personal information about a potential job hire, not insider information on a game or company.

Have you not been reading her posts in the last day or so?

"My friends at Microsoft say..." is exactly the kind of thing that gets vetted. Especially with a rumour like "Scorpio is going to be delayed".

My post wasn't specifically about the hire thing. That hire post was merely what made me think she has no sources whatsoever.

All these "insiders" that seem to come out of the woodwork with negative MS rumours are getting tiresome.

 

[Warm Machine]

Videogame companies are ALL risk adverse now. I've since quit the game industry but I'll try to describe the way it currently boils down.

You MUST have a working playable demo of your game no matter what. You can have 100 years of game dev experience, you can have shipped and designed hit titles, you can have the smartest people, you can have confirmed sales, you can even have a brand history, but NONE of that matters if you don't have a demo of your latest game. I have seen this happen to start up developers in the Vancouver area and even with tech behind them they have not been able to secure industry funding.

This means that you and whoever you are working with have to pay out of your own pocket to build the project to get it in a playable state. This can take 3 months to however long it is going to take. Due to this, game content and concept is going to scale to that challenge which isn't a good thing because anything of a larger scale isn't ever going to be made in demo time.

Once this is done you need the connections to get this demo in front of people, which is actually very easy now. However your game concept is going to be judged against the monthly changing sands of whatever is currently popular or whatever direction the company and industry is interested in going in. Fair enough, but the last 5 years has seen a massive rise in Twitch and Youtubers and therefor game design shifted to appeal to concepts that appealed to this kind of visibility. Also monetization changed so fast and so drastically that biz plans quickly became redundant. Big companies are particularly frustrating with idea and platform of the moment biz decisions.

It is also best to be running Kickstarters and get into early access and do all kinds of work not on the game, but surrounding the game so your social is on point. Before your game is out you have to build a story around your game so people care about your game in advance. Never surprise release a game ever (see Smash + Grab)

Now some games HAVE been able to be SUPER SUCCESFUL without having to jump through these hoops and just have personal hustle to make it big. I get that. Those are anomalies in the grand scheme of game dev which sees hundreds of new games on a variety of platforms out every week. Traditional paid development through the regular publishing model is vanishing mostly due to games as a service serving branded titles with long tails which are better developed and controlled under the roof of the publisher.

Publishers would rather sit back, wait for demos or near complete games to land on their lap and then make a creative and business decision rather than take any kind of gamble on an unknown best guess of design. It makes perfect sense for them and due to the rise in tools like Unity they have no shortage of people willing to grind unpaid for a chance at a deal.

This is my take from my experience working in the game industry and talking with others struggling at the moment for publishing deals.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

My guess is they'll try to buy another 3rd party (timed) exclusive like Tomb Raider. I'm not sure what they'd be able to get though. I think they'd be able of get Cyberpunk 2077 well before PS4 does but it's still so far off.

You are crazy .
Consoles wise TW3 sold more on PS4 and CD Projekt is not going to give up a user base they are growing .

 

[onemanasylum]

My point is that you can have a good or bad experience at any of them. They're no different in that regard. Maybe I didn't say it well, but my point was that no company is going to offer you an inherently better/worse experience because of the name on the building.

Good or bad experience, is not the same as every company being the same. Yes, a company can give you a better/worse experience depending on the name on the building. Do you even know what corporate culture is?

Companies are vastly different.

 

[Sydle]

Wait doesn't Phil answer to Terry Myerson? Or am I mistaken?

He does, was done when he was promoted to Head of Xbox in March 2014.

Next, I have asked Phil Spencer to take on a new role leading Xbox, combining the Xbox and Xbox Live development teams with the Microsoft Studios team. Phil will report to Terry Myerson, allowing us to keep gaming close to the group developing operating systems across devices. In this new job, Phil will lead the Xbox, Xbox Live, Xbox Music and Xbox Video teams, and Microsoft Studios. Combining all our software, gaming and content assets across the Xbox team under a single leader and aligning with the OSG team will help ensure we continue to do great work across the Xbox business, and bring more of the magic of Xbox to all form factors, including tablets, PCs and phones. - Link

Then in mid-2015 Satya declared that the purpose of Xbox / gaming is to drive the appeal of Windows.

Finally, we will build the best instantiation of this vision through our Windows device platform and our devices, which will serve to delight our customers, increase distribution of our services, drive gross margin, enable fundamentally new product categories, and generate opportunity for the Windows ecosystem more broadly. We will pursue our gaming ambition as part of this broader vision for Windows and increase its appeal to consumers. We will bring together Xbox Live and our first-party gaming efforts across PC, console, mobile and new categories like HoloLens into one integrated play. - Link

 

[Matt]

My point is that you can have a good or bad experience at any of them. They're no different in that regard. Maybe I didn't say it well, but my point was that no company is going to offer you an inherently better/worse experience because of the name on the building.

...are you kidding?

 

[Seiryoden]

A Naruto game exclusive to Xbox? interesting.

Sorry, I should have been more careful with my words and/or photo composition. 99% certain that Rise of a Ninja had a PS3 release.

 

[killatopak]

Lol.

 

[Fdkn]

He said this practically the very first day he took charge lol.

He was the head of MS studios before, so he could have done something about it much earlier than then too.

It's easy to conclude that he just likes saying what people want to hear.

 

[Jigorath]

These were the first ones on the shelf, Halo and Gears are at the back of the wardrobe.

So many great exclusives.

360 had a really great lineup.

Shame the Xbox One isn't matching up.

 

[op_ivy]

Hoping ms has a good e3. Expecting lots of out of left field cg trailers tho...

 

[Killroyskbg]

Have you followed Star Citizen or its thread?


It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Most video games are a nightmare to make. Most large scale software projects involving hundreds of people are a nightmare to make. Almost no games end up being like the creator envisions them. There is never enough time or money. You promise more than you can chew to make publishers bite.
You go to publishers, and you make a pitch. As a lead you promise things you cannot realistically deliver.


If they bite (Microsoft) you get millions and you begin working on the game. Then eventually, you've not hit your milestones and now you're behind schedule. You go to microsoft and the investors and tell them "we're out of money- Please give us more". The publishers become annoyed because the agreement was they'd finish by this date and with this amount of money. Developers explain to the publisher that things went wrong (it always goes wrong) - Systems needs to be remade, focus groups gave them insights into things that werent working, major problems with tech and engine forces them to seek other solutions.

As a publisher or investor you're in a pickle. If you pull the plug now, your money is lost. the game is dead, and you will never recoup your investment. Or. Or you can give the developers more money. Okay- 5 more million for you guys- six more months.
And then six months later, you come back and they're not done. Ahh, things where not working in the internal alpha. They could release it, but it would mean they expect much lower sales prejections and perhaps a meta critic score of 55-65.

What do you do? Now you got a sort of working game product you can release. Do you keep going at it? The developers show the latest builds, they show their new targets and how they plan to spend the remaining money. Okay, - You give the developers 5 more months and more money. You come back 5 months later, and it's still not done.
At this point this is where many publishers say "enough" and either force them release it (a half finished or finished buggy game) or shut it down.
Game development is a fight to hit milestones. When you operate a studio and you have a staff of 300-500 people working internally, with marketing, branding and all the various staff members, you're easily spending 100K a month just to keep the studio operational. That's not even in full development cycle. You're burning through massive amounts of money and you take major risks.

On the other line you have the gamers. Sick and tired of publishers always betting on the safe games. Another World War 2 shooter? uck. Another Military Shooter? Yuck. Another Hero shooter? Fuck.
It's not that publishers like EA or Microsoft or Ubisoft are out to fuck anybody over. It's that they are trying to make back their money.
I respect Spencer for betting on Phantom Dust. That was a bold and insightful game that deserved another chance. And going by this games development studio, and the fact it was transfered to another team makes me think that Spencer had a personal interest in seeing it realized. I don't think Scalebound was different. Or ReCore. How cool would it have been had ReCore been a modern Ico? It could have been. That game has so much promise, but that's another situation where the game just wouldn't finish. Microsoft had to say "enough" and force them to release it.




Why is this?

It's because games are not coming together until near the end. You cannot tell if it's a fun game you got until all the gameplay systems are in place. And because they need to be a part of a whole, you're designing and building in the blind for years. So you have to go deep into the rabbit hole and hope for the best.
Software development is beaucratic. You got so many people that the leads don't even have an idea what is really going on elsewhere. If you're a lead on programming, or animation or sound or illustration, you're just ahead of your team. You don't know how the other pieces of the puzzle is coming together. Sometimes you have a strong team and a strong game, but one team is fucked. Either by poor management or because it suffers on the burdens of other teams. Maybe the programming team is understaffed or the choice of engine was problematic in the beginning. Now because a early lead developer picked a terrible engine to work in, you're spending 50% of your staff on programmers because the engine choice was fucked. Now you don't got enough budget for other teams- Now what the fuck do you do?
Are you supposed to go to Microsoft and EA with that fucking story? Yeah, me as the lead dev and the lead programmer made a mistake, and now we need a lot more money for the next 3 years to finish this game.

Decisions like that in the beginning is why, many large famous developers move to indie games. It's less stressful, it's smaller manageable budgets, you can have your finger in every area of development, you can control it, lesser people means less risk and less timewaste by the sheer amount of people, meetings and builds that have to be moved. You cannot throw more staff and money after this and expect games to become good. It just doesn't work that way.
So what did Spencer do wrong here? I don't understand how he is at fault. It's a stroke of bad luck that these projects have folded. It has left wide gaps in the Xbox strategy for 2017. But it could not have been forseen.

Sony during the PS3 days is a good example of how they had a massive slate of games that ended up being terrible terrible. Games like Lair and Haze ended up being unfinished messes. They weren't coming together- But that was also not the fault of Sony. Choosing which projects to back is a 20/20 hindsight.

I know about SC yes and I believe both them and Xbox suffer from bad leadership.

Off course some games are not going to be loved and bought by everyone and they really dont need to be. Probably The last guardian will not be a financial successes and missed so many milestones it was delayed over a generation. Dreams nobody really seems to understand just what it actually is yet. There is this quote from Yoshida I believe about how only one in many games actually generates profit so why do Sony continue to give so much creative freedom and support to "unsafe" games. Because even if the game itself is not a success it ads to the library and might attract owners that would not buy your system and pay for your other services, games etc. otherwise.

Phil is basically starving Xbox of content by canceling games (especially this late) in development and attracting new buyers with Halo X, Forza X to me does not sound like a good strategy.

 

[Effect]

Why do they need to? Why wasn't something like Sunset OD risky?

You got to do more then just take one risk.

 

[Bobnob]

Have you not been reading her posts in the last day or so?

"My friends at Microsoft say..." is exactly the kind of thing that gets vetted. Especially with a rumour like "Scorpio is going to be delayed".

My post wasn't specifically about the hire thing. That hire post was merely what made me think she has no sources whatsoever.

All these "insiders" that seem to come out of the woodwork with negative MS rumours are getting tiresome.

i am sure there were a few posts of hers in the scorpio thread that made no sense when put together, to me anyhow.

 

[airborn]

I don't know exactly but you could probably bet your ass the budget's tightening.

Which also explains the cost cutting we've seen over the last twelve months.

 

[Fat4all]

Have you not been reading her posts in the last day or so?

No. I don't memorize other people's posts. Most of the time they just kinda bounce off me.

What posts have they made that specifically imply insider information that you think a mod needs to verify?

 

[LordRaptor]

It was easy enough for me to write off Fable Legends cancellation as just a troubled development, but now again with Scalebound... Something's definitely up.

Fable Legends wasn't just cancelled, the studio was closed down.
Closing a first party studio is much more of a long term decision than cancelling an individual title is.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

Resonance of Fate is on PS3 as well but yeah that picture is awesome

man, such a disappointing lineup this gen from them coming off of the 360

To be fair it's been painfully obvious those days were gone long before the Xbone was even announced.

 

[DeadlyParasite]

I can't get my head around this...You like SP games, feel left out in the cold by MS, but don;t like Sony games? Why? Did you try all of them and like non of them? Sony has a lot of great SP focused games and more coming. Just for my curiosity, I find it hard to understand.

I'm not abandoning the ecosystem I've put more than 13 years into and I don't have the money to do so even I wanted to.

 

[messiaen]

Good or bad experience, is not the same as every company being the same. Yes, a company can give you a better/worse experience depending on the name on the building. Do you even know what corporate culture is?

Companies are vastly different.

From a creative person's perspective they operate in very similar ways. Again, my experience.

Of course I know what corporate culture is... Jesus, could you chill with the condescending tone? I'm just trying to offer some perspective since my experience in LA has clearly been different than yours.

 

[fargofallout]

Big budget games in general are less risky than they used to be. It's a bummer, but it's a fact of life.

And to all the people who hate Microsoft for this or think this is a terrible idea, get real. They're not stupid. Maybe they're tough to deal with as a developer and maybe they're too risk-averse, but they're not going to flush all that money for no good reason. The game was either waaaaaay behind schedule, or whatever focus testing they had done led them to believe it wasn't a good game and wouldn't sell worth anything, or would tarnish their name, such as it is. Is it the wrong choice? Maybe. But unless you're somewhere on the inside and have more information than some interviews and E3 videos, you don't know that.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Hoping ms has a good e3. Expecting lots of out of left field cg trailers tho...

I'm hoping they do to, been gaming on xbox since OG xbox and had some amazing moments on their platforms with my friends. Still do...however, imma be watching their conference with one eyebrow up the time entire time.

They gonna have to come out swinging and I don't mean swinging at air. They have to make E3 a big deal me thinks.

 

[robotrock]

To be fair it's been painfully obvious those days were gone long before the Xbone was even announced.

yeah but they made a deal with platinum games to make a big action game



wasn't that obvious

 

[SURGEdude]

As an XB1 owner I want to believe him. As it stands I'm leaning more and more on 3rd party games on sale, the badass BC list, and Cuphead as stuff to look forward to in 2017.

That's not what I was expecting when I jumped in in 2013.

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

These were the first ones on the shelf, Halo and Gears are at the back of the wardrobe.

So many great exclusives.

While this image is great and shows that they really put initiative in Japanese games last gen, it also upsets me. These games did not sell in JP and other non-US regions because of the sole reason that they were 360-exlclusive/timed-exclusive and other regions cared more for Nintendo and Sony platforms. As much as they bank-rolled these titles, they also nearly ended some of these dev teams' careers. I thank Microsoft for taking risks on certain JP franchises(especially Sega ones after the dreamcast fallout) and new JP games but at the same time they nearly killed all consumer interest for console JRPGs(from high-acclaim/high sales during PS2/GC days to some people dismissing them immediately last gen). Of course they are not the sole reason for this, but it took nearly an entire gen for things to get back on track and it's good to see people getting hyped again for JRPGs and JP dev'd titles like in the PS2/GC days.

Scalebound and Phantom Dust Sequel would have probably lived either during Xbox original gen or early-360 gen, but they would have been one-off titles like those pictured above.

 

[onemanasylum]

I'm not abandoning the ecosystem I've put more than 13 years into and I don't have the money to do so even I wanted to.

Ah ok, just curious. Just seems weird to me, I go where the games that interest me are, could care less about what ecosytems I was in, loyalty to companies I never understood. To each their own though I get it.

 

[DR2K]

I'm never buying another Microsoft console after what they did to Platinum.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

No. I don't memorize other people's posts. Most of the time they just kinda bounce off me.

What posts have they made that specifically imply insider information that you think a mod needs to verify?

On mobile so can't check post history.

Many mentions of "friends at MS" and a mention of a Scorpio delay.

If that doesn't qualify as a post that requires vetting, not sure what does.

 

[CCIE]

Now I need to be vetted by mods? Might as well go ahead and ban me then, because there is ZERO chance I endanger my job for a bunch of insecure fans on a gaming message board.


Anyway, I will leave if you want. No harm intended...

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Now I need to be vetted by mods? Might as well go ahead and ban me then, because there is ZERO chance I endanger my job for a bunch of insecure fans on a gaming message board.


Anyway, I will leave if you want. No harm intended...

If you're going to start Scorpio delay rumours then yeah. That's exactly the sort of thing that would get vetted.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

...are you kidding?

Yeah he has no idea what he is talking about. Lol

 

[Doffen]

Hoping ms has a good e3. Expecting lots of out of left field cg trailers tho...

This is what you should expect:

State of Decay 2
Gears of War 4 DLC
Forza Motorsport 7
Ori 2
Sea of Thieves
Crackdown 3
ID@Xbox
EA Access
Scorpio Info drop
Scorpio updated games
VR
Halo teaser

 

[formasymphonic]

I like Phil overall but I feel like this continues to happen. Our very own MH Williams put up an article going over all the things announced in 2014 that have all but been axed: http://www.usgamer.net/articles/revisiting-xbox-e3-2014-remembering-the-dead

I almost forgot how much.

Every time this happens, fans start questioning him and the platform's direction, Phil gives the standard reply "we're committed to games and first party", and then you get the "Ok, phew, thanks Phil!" though that seems to be waning now.

Thing is, you need to allow your teams to branch out and take risks creatively. That's how you grow a brand and ecosystem and new fan bases. This has nothing to do with console war bs, but Sony does this and it's evident. One of their flagship studios known for first person shooters was allowed to take 5 years to build a post apocalyptic open world RPG with a female lead and robot dinosaurs. Another studio (Sony Santa Monica), even though its initial new IP failed, was allowed to radically revamp one of their biggest and most beloved franchises (God of War). Both huge risks. Sucker Punch is on a new IP. Bend is on a new IP, etc. Naughty Dog took time to develop a new IP that's arguably their biggest yet. That's how these become successful franchises.

Besides Rare, which is basically their new IP testbed though relegated to service driven games, Turn 10 works on Forza, Black Tusk was transformed into a Gears factory, 343 is relegated to Halo...it's just tired at this point. To me anyway, even though I still enjoy those series a lot. I want Xbox around forever. I was there day one with my OG Xbox and fell mad in love with Halo, but damn...give us new and exciting things man. I mean nurturing internal first party talent, not signing more deals that don't go anywhere.

These are almost my exact feelings. I said it in the scalebound thread but I was an OG Xbox and a 360 guy. MS' lack of commitment to first party has been going on for far longer than 2014 though — towards the second half of 360's life I became increasingly disillusioned with their results on that front compared to their rhetoric.

The talk is cheap and the results speak for themselves - People who work for MS might care, but the company overall just doesn't care about games in the same way that Sony & Nintendo do. It's optimised in a way that just doesn't see the ROI for building IP as valuable. I'd really love to be proven wrong on that, but I just doubt I will be.