The Artisan
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PS4 Pro Won't Support 4k BluRay
- Thread starter blastprocessor
- Start date
unit sales
The Artisan
Member
being $100 cheaper, coming out earlier, and being BC aren't realistic expectations. 4K blu ray was a realistic and reasonable expectation considering Ps4 pro is supposed to be a 4K-centric console, and the fact that its competition which came out in a similar time frame.
i'm happy that this thread is still going. this was a terrible mistake. i play my Ps4 pro every day but i'm not going to be a sheep and say sony did no wrong in their decision making when they opted not to include a 4K blu ray player in it
Lagspike_exe
Member
You cannot make this argument as you don't know the delta in UHD sales and contributing profit for Sony if Pro had UHD player and the costs associated with it. Sony has been pushing formats since 1970. I think it's time for the free riders to take some action and push new ones.
MrCaliaztec
Member
Not one single person in these last fews pages has said in any way shape or form that Sony did no wrong its just a null issue, it was Sonys choice and they choose not too simple as that. If it had it an UHD drive in it great but it wasn't a feature needed to sell units, because most do not care that it does not have one! Most of us are saying it has absolutely no basis to stiffle our decision to buy one in any way shape or form, and that since it is still selling well without the UHD drive then we can see that obviously most don't care either.
You sir are the only one who keeps the notion of some sort of witch hunt going months after the fact. Even the people who may have been very miffed as you are still bought one, so you still caved and bought regardless of what kind of drive it has in it.
Whose the sheep exactly... you bought something that you have a huge irk with, and feel is missing a huge feature set. And yet you dropped $400 to buy one. And we are the sheep for not caring about its multimedia features because maybe we bought it for the games? I love when people bust out the word sheep because you and everyone else who is so bummed about this but didn't actually show Sony with their wallet are the ones that are bleating like sheep right now....
TyphoonStruggle
Member
All I know is that I have a 4k TV and It would be nice for the PS4 Pro to also be a 4k UHD player.
I don't want to spend $200 + $400 to have two things below my TV.
I would rather spend $450 to have one thing below my TV.
As it is, I don't have a PS4 or PS4 Pro. Not interested in getting PS4 cause I'm not a plebe. Not interested in PS4 Pro because I already have a PC. My PC doesn't have a 4k UHD player though, hmm...
I don't want to spend $200 + $400 to have two things below my TV.
I would rather spend $450 to have one thing below my TV.
As it is, I don't have a PS4 or PS4 Pro. Not interested in getting PS4 cause I'm not a plebe. Not interested in PS4 Pro because I already have a PC. My PC doesn't have a 4k UHD player though, hmm...
The total number of available UHD blu-ray discs out for the holidays was still in the double digits, and they're all being sold at a premium price. If you walked through a Best Buy at the end of last year the entire offering fit on an endcap. It's not HD-DVD bad (poor Microsoft) but it's had zero impact.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that adding that UHD Blu-ray to your console wasn't going to sell many extra consoles. It's not 2006 when PS3 games were actually shipping on the new format.
This it makes me sick to walk into HMV and see DVDs everywhere and people buying them in 2017... like have some standards how could you watch films in 480p
You probably dont see many UHD films in CEX and so on because its high end users who buy them (it requires like a £1k TV to fully appreciate) and high end users mostly likely would not sell them to CEX
i guess we're all peasants to your high and mighty land owner status.
Not sure if satire of something I am unaware of or sheer naked elitism.
OK, two additional questions:
1) Are you assuming that Sony would have sold more hardware units at the current price point, or does you estimate include higher price (e.g. $419 vs $399)?
2) How many consoles more (pieces) would Sony have sold if they had included UHD BD with the above mentioned price?
The Artisan
Member
i would bother responding to this post, but if you can't show a mutual respect in this conversation i'm not going to bother responding to you
1. It would have to be slightly more expensive. I don't the average consumer would change their mind over a $20 difference
2. I obviously can't say how many consoles more, but it would be a positive number
I wonder if Sony held off in making the PS4 PRO a proper 4KBluRay Player because they felt a proper one should have an extra HDMI out for Audio (to support all those Receivers that have HDMI 1.4)
If you take a look at the stand alone 4K BluRay Players currently available and the future ones releasing, they all have an extra HDMI out port.
I've said this before, but that has what has stopped me from getting an Xbox1s for 4k BluRay... I need my lossless sound for my expensive lossless headset.
I wonder how much it would've added to the cost for Sony to add an extra HDMI audio output.....added to the other cost needed for 4KBluRay suppport.
Don't get me wrong, I know some would be like fuuuuck that I don't care that much about sound...or some would look to buy an expensive addon to output HD Audio.
If you take a look at the stand alone 4K BluRay Players currently available and the future ones releasing, they all have an extra HDMI out port.
I've said this before, but that has what has stopped me from getting an Xbox1s for 4k BluRay... I need my lossless sound for my expensive lossless headset.
I wonder how much it would've added to the cost for Sony to add an extra HDMI audio output.....added to the other cost needed for 4KBluRay suppport.
Don't get me wrong, I know some would be like fuuuuck that I don't care that much about sound...or some would look to buy an expensive addon to output HD Audio.
Disagree Guy
Member
Personally I find this a non-issue
Sure the Xbox fanboys will quote this as a reason to get a scorpio instead of a pro but.....
The difference between 4k Blu ray and standard blu-ray is trivial to my eyes
You can stream from amazon prime in 4k for cheaper than a 4k blu ray costs anyway
The current 4k blu ray library is dreadful
It's going to affect less than 1% of people I'd imagine. Keeping the cost of the pro down in the process.
Good move. Solid business model. The only people who truly care will be willing to buy a 4k blu ray player.
Sure the Xbox fanboys will quote this as a reason to get a scorpio instead of a pro but.....
The difference between 4k Blu ray and standard blu-ray is trivial to my eyes
You can stream from amazon prime in 4k for cheaper than a 4k blu ray costs anyway
The current 4k blu ray library is dreadful
It's going to affect less than 1% of people I'd imagine. Keeping the cost of the pro down in the process.
Good move. Solid business model. The only people who truly care will be willing to buy a 4k blu ray player.
You mention fanboy..yet...um, probably not worth it.
I agree with this though....although, if it did support 4KBluRay...Some gamers who don't care much for legit 4K media content..might take advantage of the player and jump on deals for discs every now and then.
Samurai G0SU
Member
I know that's what I'm doing... or will be doing when I have a good enough reason to actually want 4K Blu-Rays (No movies I give a shit enough about available on the format to make it worthwhile paying the premium).
MrCaliaztec
Member
You brought up the sheep yourself friend not I, all I was doing is pointing out the hypocrisy in you calling other sheep... If you can't handle a conversation then that's your problem. But it's pretty clear where the direction of all this is headed and you'll just continue to wallow over the entire thing so it's moot at this point! It's clear that the focus was games and a larger majority would probably be turned off by a higher price point over the exclusion of UHD drive.
Keeping costs low should be the focus when releasing mid generation hardware. Lets see how well it works for MS with the rumoured $500-600 price tag of the Scorpio. The PS4 Pro would be DoA wth a $450-500 tag so why underprice it and take a hit when you can market it for what really matters which is the games!
Enjoy playing your PS4 Pro everyday you have some great convictions!
family_guy
Member
Good move for who? Do you own shares at Sony?
Why would you buy a 4K TV and a PS4 Pro if you can't perceive resolutions higher than 1080p?
The Artisan
Member
you were doing more than "pointing out hypocrisy", you were just being a dick and others noticed
BradleyLove
Member
You can't say any of this.
Given how price-sensitive consumers can be, a $429 Pro might have sold less irrespective of UHD BD. So there's no guarantee it would have sold more.
Besides, Sony were clearly aiming to hit the $399 price point, and I'd rather they spend that extra cost on the gaming side of the Pro than the media side given that, y'know, Pro is first and foremost a gaming console.
I understand totally the sense of disappointment, but I really can't jive with the sense of entitlement I'm seeing. Sony don't owe any of us shit. And if you're not happy with the product they're offering, then there are alternatives. So vote with your wallet.
SolidusDave
Member
I find it baffling that people try downplay the enhancements of UHD or even normal Blu-ray (compared to a stream) in favor of a device that offers minuscule visual enhancements for games as its sole selling point.
Complaining about the first-year UHD library while there are like only a dozen games benefiting from the enhancements so far...
Then the nerve to call someone a fanboy... yet I'm pretty sure the people complaining about this topic the most are already PS4 owners.
you should get your eyes checked then
this is the same as saying 30fps 60fps difference is trivial
stream quality sucks, a real uhd blu ray is miles above the trash that is on netflix and prime but i guess you cant see a difference anyways
Herp Derpington
Member
That's the funny thing to me. Arguing against UHD because of perceived small gains in pq yet buying a PS4Pro for....small gains in pq. I mean ok I guess.
I ended up buying a standalone UHD player because I don't have a receiver with 4k HDR capability but I did buy an S and support anyone buying one for UHD playback. Why wouldn't we? I want more options for quality 4K not less.
The Artisan
Member
it's not entitlement, it's disappointment. i'm not saying, we deserved a 4K blu ray player in the pro, i'm saying it would have made me want it more. i ended up buying it anyway for personal reasons
you have a point though a higher price probably would turn a lot of consumers off, but at least it wouldn't be like $450 or even $500, sony knows to stay clear of prices like that
although someone else in this thread made a point too about what if they also just kept a 500GB HD instead of 1TB? wouldn't have helped shave costs a little bit?
MrCaliaztec
Member
Exactly what I said especially after calling people sheep. When he went and bought a $400 console he's unhappy with... he completely showed that it really truly doesn't matter to him because he still bought one.
MrCaliaztec
Member
I'd imagine the price difference there is miniscule compared to an entirely new drive. Also the hard drive upgrade benefits the console in a gaming aspect first, which many have stated as long as the upgrades work for the gaming aspect it's totally justifiable in the cost for the most part.
The failure in this argument is the fact that PS4 Pro & Xbox One S are Game Consoles 1st so if you're arguing that people accept PS4 pro 4K game upgrades but isn't excited about UHD Blu-ray 4K upgrade over Blu-ray & 4K streaming you fail to see that Xbox One S gaming is still 900p -1080p.
So yes look at the silly people on a gaming forum who are buying a gaming console that give them a better gaming experience & accepting that it don't play UHD Blu-ray.
MrCaliaztec
Member
Who here has not supported buying an Xbox One S for UHD media playback? If you got back 2 pages you'd see most said an Xbox One S is a fantastic choice if in the market for a UHD player and play games. If fact it's your best bet! But if you wanna play games in 4K outside of owning a $1200+ dollar PC then the Pro is your best option!
I agree that Sony's move to focus PS4 on games is the root of this decision. Most people look at the cost in terms of hardware and licensing fees required to play UHD, but there's also an opportunity cost associated with devoting software development resources to supporting a brand new standard.
Would we rather have parts of the OS team dedicated to developing a UHD player, plus trying out new UHD Blu-ray discs and sorting through issues? Getting tied up with extra validation cycles to push out new firmware whenever problems arise? Or is it better to focus on features directly related to improving the gaming experience?
Would we rather have parts of the OS team dedicated to developing a UHD player, plus trying out new UHD Blu-ray discs and sorting through issues? Getting tied up with extra validation cycles to push out new firmware whenever problems arise? Or is it better to focus on features directly related to improving the gaming experience?
The Artisan
Member
I said I bought it for personal reasons, it still matters to me that there is no 4K blu ray player, it's a disappointment regardless of how successful the console is
I think you're missing the point though. The poster literally said that the difference between 1080 and 4k blu ray was imperceptible to them. In this case, the fidelity upgrade offered by the pro would also be imperceptible in most games.
MrCaliaztec
Member
Doesn't matter for what reason you bought it for in the least, you still showed Sony and all of us that in the end not having an UHD drive had absolutely zero effect on you not buying it because you bought one!
So if we go back to the original arguement a few days ago about how many people were swayed away from buying a PS4 pro because it didn't have an UHD drive and that big hypothetical you were pushing... you're not even in that category! You're literally in my hypothesis and just another number to prove my point right that it obviously doesn't sway that many people away from it...
I mean I'm sorry can you really not see this? Your own actions make you a counterpoint to your own arguement! Cmon dude lol...
PeterLegend
Member
Personally I think Sony made a mistake for three reasons.
1. Microsoft decided to add it in to the Xbox One S and undoubtedly the Scorpio will have it as well.
2. Sony makes 4k televisions, the best source of media to show off your new 4k tv is a 4k bluray movie.
3. Sony could of charged a higher price maybe $429 or $449 for the PS4 Pro to include it but left out in the PS4 slim for lower price and better margins.
I understand Sony is still selling a boat load of PS4s (Slim and Pro) but it's just an odd omission.
1. Microsoft decided to add it in to the Xbox One S and undoubtedly the Scorpio will have it as well.
2. Sony makes 4k televisions, the best source of media to show off your new 4k tv is a 4k bluray movie.
3. Sony could of charged a higher price maybe $429 or $449 for the PS4 Pro to include it but left out in the PS4 slim for lower price and better margins.
I understand Sony is still selling a boat load of PS4s (Slim and Pro) but it's just an odd omission.
The Artisan
Member
you're right about 1 thing in that i'm not in that category, but i'm not your average consumer. i'm not a smart shopper at all. I bought the OG Ps4 for like $450, sold it for $350 just to get the white Ps4, sold that for $250 for this Ps4 pro. And back when the pro was just rumors I hated the idea of it, and it took a lot of internal arguing for me to come around and change.
but that doesn't take away from the fact that i find it a disappointment that there's no 4K blu ray player. it is a console first and foremost and i like playstation games the most. if i was impartial about i might've actually gotten the xbone s.
and it isn't just about me, if you don't care that there isn't a 4K blu ray player then you got what you wanted, but if it was not a valid complaint, there would not be so many complaints. not everybody has to think the same way about this
MrCaliaztec
Member
But you're here leading a self propelled crusade of disappointment. Disappointment or not you showed in the end that it didn't matter. You're obviously in a very small minority and simply do not matter sorry.
And because you already voted with your wallet. At this point it's just self righteous noise that is hypocrtical at its core! Sorry but that's totally how it's comes off super whiney and in the end you still supported it.
That is in no way how you show a company that you are unhappy with their products... Sony execs do not read these forums at least not the ones in Japan where all the decisions are made... so you're literally crusading against it in a forum of your peers but you've already shown that your gripes and disapointment had no effect on you buying the console...
The Artisan
Member
maybe not me but plenty of others probably did vote with their wallet. like i said though i bought it because i want to play playstation games in the best possible way, that's what comes first, but that does not mean it won't come with disappointment.
so i'm not a factor in this mistake sony has made, since like you said i already bought the product, but now we're back to square one about how there could have been others who wanted one but didn't buy one because of the lack of the player
MrCaliaztec
Member
Well I'm sure we can agree that their were many others like you. Who complain but still ended up buying one. And that has been evidenced here way more times then people saying they are gonna outright just not buy one. So it goes to show it's obviously not as large of an issue as you seem to think it is... or honestly it seems like you want it to be a bigger issue but it honestly isn't.
The Artisan
Member
i doubt it. i told you about my history with spending habits on playstation 4. i don't think there are many others who have done things i have.
as for this being an issue, i'm not going to say this wasn't a mistake. it's not the biggest deal in the world, for me it was not a deal breaker, but it still wasn't the right move in my opinion
The_Spaniard
Netmarble
Without thinking I stuck a UHD disk into my PS4 Pro and was worried for a few seconds when it didn't start playing. Then I remembered how cheap/stupid Sony is and stuck the disk into my XB1S.
As discussed many times, a factor in that decision might have been the lack of a mass produced Sony CE drive, which is now available (the mass market unit releases sometime in February afaik).
So if the need is there (unclear atm imo), Sony always has the possibility of releasing a small update ("Ultra" label?) for both the Slim and the Pro, including a Sony made UHD drive. If that were to happen, I imagine the refresh would happen right around the Scorpio release, and for no additional cost to buyers (in fall 2017 I imagine the Slim will hit $199 diring BF, and the Pro $299, given that it was already seen at sub $350 last year in that period).
MS, not being a CE maker themselves, did not have this problem and sub contracted with whomever could provide them the cheapest UHD drive in large quantities.
binarymelon
Member
Why would it require an extra HDMI out? 1.3 (which was supported by the launch PS3) supports lossless audio on the same cable as video.
MrCaliaztec
Member
It's already been evidenced here that's many who share the same irk as you have already bought one. And not very many people here at all has expressed that a definite sale was stopped because of the exclusion.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Because they won't go through an older receiver. In the scenario outlined you plug the video out directly to the HDCP 2.2 TV and then hook the audio out to the hdmi input.
The Artisan
Member
I've seen plenty of people say that they were planning to buy one but didn't when this was revealed.
I don't know they got you to buy their console without wasting extra money on a UHD Blu-ray drive, Sounds pretty smart to me.
People get their pre-orders canceled everyday B.
The Artisan
Member
it goes both ways
Herp Derpington
Member
I know a few people that don't care about UHD playback and got an S because it was the Xbox they saw in the store. In fact I'd probably say quite a few people I know were in the same boat. For those that want UHD to be a success though and want one machine handling both it's a great choice assuming you have a receiver that can handle 4K video (if you have an audio system). As for the Pro I'm not saying it's a bad choice to go with one (again more 4K adoption the better) but rather was just stating it's a bit interesting that people put down the S as a UHD machine saying the differences aren't as apparent yet crow about a system in the Pro that is this very definition. That's the way I see it anyway; your mileage may vary.
What goes both ways?