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Mobile gaming: coming into its own finally?
- Thread starter Kimawolf
- Start date
Generalpsyduck
Banned
Nope. I still can't stand microtransactions so no. most mobile games are glorified slot machines.
Like others have said, Mobile gaming came into its own years ago. That said, I know I'll probably never be able to fully get into it. The only mobile game that's captured me for any length of time is Lara Croft Go (absolutely brilliant game). Everything else holds my interest for a week a most. Don't think I'll ever fully get into touch screen gaming.
Keyser Soze
Member
I am pretty sure that the "most of _____ is terrible" criticism could be levied against most modern online stores nowadays. Steam is a mess. But the fact that 90% of something is overflowing with bad, does not diminish the fact there is high quality experiences awaiting those who want to find it.
Sure, the iOS/Android stores probably have the highest ratio of bad to good - there's no getting around that. If only there was a safe haven to help cull the bad, and provide curated lists of the good. If only.
This is a good post, especially the part about OP living in a bubble.
MHWilliams
Member
Those games are largely the same as other games of similar quality that have been around for years.
All that's really changed is Nintendo has shown some people that mobile games are still games.
Conkerkid11
Member
Those are examples of good mobile games? Games based on concepts done better by other mobile games long before they released?
Aztechnology
Member
I will. On switch or emu thanks.
I want a fully flushed out Fe game on mobile. I know you've already outlined why you think it wouldn't work because of controls but I disagree. Radial wheels on the side corners for additional options wouldn't be that hard and rectify most control issues.
pixelpatr0n
Banned
Shout out for Paradise Bay. ❤️
Completely off topic, but I like the little robot in your avatar, lol.
Greatest Ever
Member
Not even close. It has far to go, and pales in comparison to any other platform out there, except maybe handhelds.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Candescence
Member
Eh, mobile has long hit its ceiling in terms of quality experiences as far as I'm concerned. Sure, there are great mobile games, but the limited interface and the marketplace make it unattractive for me as a player for anything other than a nice distraction for a couple of minutes, and a worthless platform for for the developer in me who wants to do more compelling experiences.
Fuck, Nintendo's offerings have been case in point - Mario Run isn't worth playing beyond the free levels, and Fire Emblem Heroes is nice at first but I'm rapidly finding it to be a grindfest with tepid story with a gatcha that magnifies the problems with gatcha on top of a game that's basically FE:Lite - it sorta feels like Fire Emblem, but the maps are too small to allow for real tactical depth, because, of course, they have to compensate for only being able to use a fucking touchscreen.
Really, even the good mobile games are generally titles that I'd much rather prefer playing on something else.
Good grief, the whole platform feels like a massive pile of wasted potential.
Fuck, Nintendo's offerings have been case in point - Mario Run isn't worth playing beyond the free levels, and Fire Emblem Heroes is nice at first but I'm rapidly finding it to be a grindfest with tepid story with a gatcha that magnifies the problems with gatcha on top of a game that's basically FE:Lite - it sorta feels like Fire Emblem, but the maps are too small to allow for real tactical depth, because, of course, they have to compensate for only being able to use a fucking touchscreen.
Really, even the good mobile games are generally titles that I'd much rather prefer playing on something else.
Good grief, the whole platform feels like a massive pile of wasted potential.
Ruud_Luiten
Member
Mobile gaming already has millions and millions of players and mega diverse games. It's not special or getting adult because of Nintendo...
They are just late to the party..
They are just late to the party..
More_Badass
Member
Well, the first example is completely subjective, and the second has to do with how that game was designed and not with it being on touch. There are far more advanced RPGs/strategy games/ports than something like Fire Emblem Heroes
As for "limited interface", I really cant see how you can say that. It's like saying PC is limited because it doesnt have analog sticks, or consoles are wasted potential because you cant play grand strategy games on them. You make what suits the platform. That's why the most praised games are often puzzlers or adventure games or strategy or interactive fiction/digital gamebooks or roguelikes or rely on tactile mechanics. Ports liks The Room just don't feel right playing with a mouse.
But honestly if you're using Nintendo's games to say that's the best mobile has to offer or that they're indicative of mobile as a whole, then you haven't played many mobile games
Candescence
Member
Normally, I'd absolutely agree with you when it comes to making what suits the platform (though personally if every console controller had a right touch pad and grip buttons like the Steam Controller controllers would be leagues more versatile) - handhelds have traditionally been more suited for more 'compact' experiences, but even then at least they usually can play anything consoles can. Mobile, on the other hand, is really only suited to the few genres you mentioned, everything else is either unfeasible or severely compromised. That's kind of a big flaw if you ask me.
And I have played other mobile games, and I am aware of other good/great games on mobile. Hell, I might check them out at some point. But I already have enough on my plate on other platforms as it is at the moment.
Well please...start with my first few points, because I see little way to argue them.
The release frequency of games on mobile has objectively increased, and both Google and Apple have done little to make discovery of new content easier for the average user...much less tools that accurately learn about my consumption habits or taste. We still regularly see games that mimic other titles down to the UI, just with a different skin, or using an existing IP license. Many of the top grossing games are either multiple year old established titles (Game of War, Clash of Clans, Candy Crush), or other games from the same few developers like Supercell (Boom Beach, Clash Royale) that advertise their games within their other games.
There are still companies that abuse user reviews with fake accounts, and rely on whales for a considerable amount of their revenue. I'm not seeing a huge influx of new sites or tastemakers to make content I'd like easily known to me in 2017 vs. 2012. Pay to play games have become factually rarer now vs. the early years of the market as F2P has largely taken over...what possible arguments are there against this?
I don't think mobile as a platform is by any means doomed, but I'm not seeing a massive improvement in the average game, much less the tools to make finding content I'd like easier. All of the frustrations people have noted since Valve opened the flood-gates within Steam, reflect the bigger version of the same problem on mobile.
HorseFD
Member
That game is super fun if you connect a controller.
1st Course
Member
None of the games you mentioned are anything special (autorunner platformer, TGC, card based RPG). Those existed since forever in the mobile space.
More_Badass
Member
Unfortunately, this is still a problem, but it's completely invisible unless you're actively looking for stuff like this. Browse the Games section, read mobile-focused sites, and stick to the mobile gaming OTs and community threads, and you will never ever see clones or those other apps
Much like how you won't ever see the hundreds of thousands of flash games or first-time prototypes and so on on PC if you stick to PC sites, the Steam thread, and Popular New Releases on Steam
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1339920
http://toucharcade.com/
http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/
http://www.pockettactics.com/
https://killscreen.com/
http://indiegames.com/index.html
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/
Paid premium games release every week, without fail. They're not hard to find. You literally just have to go to the App Store. They're right there, in Games, with big banners and recommended by curated lists
Saucycarpdog
Member
Whatevs, ^^^^^^ just check out More_Badass's post above me. He does a much better job in refuting your points.
More_Badass
Member
Your image links are brokenFor starters the discovery "problem". I can't speak for the google play store but the App Store has plenty of ways to find good and premium content:
The game store front page thats show both free and premium content:
![************](http://<a href="http://************?ref=11vjl9d" target="_blank"><img src="http://i67.************/11vjl9d.png" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>)
The Editors Choice Section which is right on the front page:
What kind of games are you interested in? Every game category now has a Pay Once and Play section to it:
Now to your point about premium gaming "dying", here you go.
That same thread I linked above should also do fine in refuting your third point of all mobile games being shallow time wasters.
Also I'm working on a 2016 edition of that last thread you linked
I think the funniest thing is watching these debates and realizing that it's really people talking over each other. There is a contingent of people who consider themselves "real gamers" would demand certain "standards" in their games (which in reality are just traditional things they are accustomed to), and this contingent makes every effort to argue that mobile gaming is inferior simply because it is -not for them-. At the same time there is another contingent of people who try to take the time to argue that and showcase that mobile gaming is worthwhile and filled with neat offerings, without understanding that the other side -doesn't care- because the majority of these games really aren't for them.
I think a good rule of a thumb is this: If someone mentions controller support in a discussion about mobile gaming, it's time to bail out because the conversation isn't worth having. It's not a discussion about quality or market perception anymore and just a fundamental disagreement with what games can be. Some people are stubborn. That's fine. Their loss!
I think a good rule of a thumb is this: If someone mentions controller support in a discussion about mobile gaming, it's time to bail out because the conversation isn't worth having. It's not a discussion about quality or market perception anymore and just a fundamental disagreement with what games can be. Some people are stubborn. That's fine. Their loss!
345triangle
Member
mobile games peaked in like 2010. iOS was legitimately the most interesting gaming platform around back then, but i don't really play much at all these days.
I like FE Heroes, but, wider conversation around mobile aside, it isn't an example that mobile gaming has 'arrived', it's a very polished version of something that's existed for years. On top of that, basing this thread around Nintendo as an example of that doesn't really work when their games are basically digital marketing (albeit fun, polished and profitable) for their main console titles.
What I do find interesting is that they seem to have found the balance between linking the two, and getting players of their mobile games interested in the console titles and vice versa.
What I do find interesting is that they seem to have found the balance between linking the two, and getting players of their mobile games interested in the console titles and vice versa.
Affeinvasion
Member
Fire emblem heroes is still the same gacha trash that has inundated every game based around a major license. It just happens to be competent gacha trash with great artwork.
It did remind me why I liked real fire emblem games though and now I'm finishing birthright finally.
It did remind me why I liked real fire emblem games though and now I'm finishing birthright finally.
Alex Connolly
Member
That's what I'm guessing. There have been plenty of great mobile games prior to this.
Permanently A
Junior Member
The absolute truth. None of the games OP mentioned are new or unique in terms of gameplay. They just have familiar characters OP latched onto.
I would say mobile gaming came into its own a long time ago with games like Clash of Clans and more recently Clash Royale and Pokemon Go. Clash of Clans is basically the Call of Duty of the mobile space, being so good at what it does it inspired a billion copycats. Clash Royale is also unique and fun enough to cause this same trend. And while Pokemon Go is basically reskinned Ingress, I give it a pass for the explosive popularity that turned it into an unprecedented social phenomena.
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
yep, fe heroes just makes me want to play real fe. plus the stupid rates for 5 star are so stupid
Permanently A
Junior Member
if you can't beat super hexagon you aren't a real gamer, cash me outside
Affeinvasion
Member
Yeah I mean what are you even supposed to do once you've beaten the story chapters? Just grind endlessly on recycled maps to level up more characters?yep, fe heroes just makes me want to play real fe. plus the stupid rates for 5 star are so stupid
Quintin DM
Member
I've definitely been playing a ton of mobile games lately, mostly due in part to the three games you mentioned OP. I guess at the very least as someone who never much cared for mobile gaming, I have gained a certain appreciation for it, and I'll probably be more open to gaming on my phone in the future.
Affeinvasion
Member
Yeah small scale adventure games are great on the platform. The sorcery games and 80 days around the world are great for what they are.
KojiKnight
Member
Until stamina isn't a thing, I don't think it'll ever become not niche. Games line Sword Art Online don't force the mechanic on you as it's a better experience for it.
Already with fire emblem I've hit the stamina wall just as I'm settling in for a play session...
Already with fire emblem I've hit the stamina wall just as I'm settling in for a play session...
Seeing the support from the games listed in the OP lately are definitely helping for people like me who have only payed attention to ports on mobile, but after playing Fire Emblem Heroes I feel as if the phones are kinda lacking in ergonomics for extended periods which makes me play a bit less.
Mobile gaming has already come into its own. Basically, a simple, fast experience of games you usually play for long periods on other devices with more control options. That will always be it. And not that I'm thinking it's a knock against it, because it's what makes mobile gaming appealing to a lot of people. But that will always be what mobile gaming is all about.
There's good mobile games... but i don't think Nintendo's efforts are a new highlight or anything.
For the most part they copy what's already popular on the platform and give it a Nintendo skin.
There's been good runners, strategy/gacha games and (imo) especially puzzle and adventure games for a while.
For the most part they copy what's already popular on the platform and give it a Nintendo skin.
There's been good runners, strategy/gacha games and (imo) especially puzzle and adventure games for a while.
FE is weird because we can't raise our maximum stamina. In other games you can get a lot done by playing a bunch, ranking up, then having another full bar to work with. I just used a bunch of the launch stamina potions when I was playing a ton yesterday, but those are going to run out eventually. I agree it sucks, and it's going to get worse with training missions going up in cost (they're halved right now). It's just an artificial way to prolong play over a number of days.
These games (actually most multiplayer focused games now) are obsessed with having people come back and play daily. I'm guessing the data shows they get more money from people that way, and "stamina" bars are one tool to make sure people come back steadily if they want to progress in your game.
This topic (stamina bars) came up in KHUX discord recently. It feels a lot like stamina are there more as a staple, a set of old shoes, whatever you want to call it, similar to crosshairs in an FPS, or 'turn based' as an idea for JRPGs, and it's what the game does with it in terms of usability to suit its target userbase that defines it.
It's more of like a precedent - when people play a new game and it's got a stamina gauge you kind of have an idea what to expect in terms of framework, i.e. limited time events, random gacha/lootcrate-based progression, etc. but by itself it's... really dated.
As an analogy, FF1-style turn based is... really outdated, but yet Bravely Default built on that to present a really engaging extension.
If you look at it another way, yes, it's 'outdated' by itself but it sets a baseline against which the extended system measures itself against. For example, KHUX has extended periods of what they call "0AP", where everything literally costs zero stamina. Sure you farm the shit out of stuff during 0AP, but you basically can have a gauge along the lines of 'well, I did 100 times of this 20AP quest which would have been 2000AP, which would have been equivalent to X number of full bars or Y number of minutes of natural regen'.
As another example, Granblue Fantasy throws AP (stamina) pots at you, with each one being 50AP, or 4h10m of natural regen. People save up and spend literally hundreds of them a day on events with loot they want, the largest perpetrator being so-called Guild Wars, especially in a close fight. In this instance, the stamina bar, while useless on its own, still serves as a gauge or yardstick as to which AP pot consumption is measured against. The game would simply fail without this AP pot system in place, because people are spending literally weeks of natural stamina regen in one sitting.
Many others, like FFRK, share currency between gacha pulls and stamina refreshes. I feel like coming into 2017, this is becoming an inferior model, as it basically punishes your userbase by forcing a decision as to whether to roll (well, literally gamble) for progression vs play more. BUT on the flipside, FFRK has, as a basic design principle, leaned towards more casual play - rewards are frontloaded to first-time completion, meaning after a certain point you can waste a lot of stamina regen and still remain reasonably cutting edge.
I think the big thing is, gacha games as a meta design philosophy have realized now that
1) trying to monetize by timewalling people into paying for more stamina doesn't work
2) stamina limits the amount people can play for extended periods of time, which then sucks for retention
the games that don't understand these two shortcomings basically lose out to games that do. Obviously there are a lot of other factors like the game design itself being engaging, progression for F2P not being insurmountable while still having a reachable carrot, 'fair' and/or transparent gacha rates that all factor into retention, but stamina really is a big factor that separates or defines what kind of userbase a gacha game develops a few months into its lifespan.
Permanently A
Junior Member
1) does work in games like DBZ dokkan battle where there aren't alternate methods of refilling energy beyond level up/premium currency. so when they have to grind world tournament, they're forced to spend stones for the stamina to play the tourney
good points overall though, as someone who returned to KHUX after a few months this 0 AP is so refreshing
I'd contend that Dokkan is a product of its time* (which is just over 2 years old, so middling), and people getting into new games now are increasingly comparing stamina systems vs the current stamina 'yardsticks' in terms of restrictiveness and how much it pushes you to pay.
But all I have to go by are anecdotes, personal experiences and gut feeling, not any empirical data, so there's that. ;p
*it also happens to be DBZ, which helps
But all I have to go by are anecdotes, personal experiences and gut feeling, not any empirical data, so there's that. ;p
*it also happens to be DBZ, which helps
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
^x3
Or you can be DFFOO and do away with stamina, keep all the usual stuff but make things hard as fuck so you gotta spend a ton of time grinding.
Or you can be DFFOO and do away with stamina, keep all the usual stuff but make things hard as fuck so you gotta spend a ton of time grinding.