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Nioh |OT| Stamina is Ki

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I'm not going to pretend that NiOh is hard, but Souls is laughable difficulty wise, especially in terms of combat.
.

This guy was moaning in the thread earlier how UMi was unfair cause it has adds and a health pool.....Hes probably cheesing his way through the game at this point,but still cheese might not be enough for him in sidequests.

i didn't mean the game itself is ULTRA SHIT

i meant Region
5
is ULTRA SHIT

but the game has some ULTRA MEGA SHIT flaws that i will explain once i finish it

Cant wait to see these thoughts such as, "BOSS IS ULTRA SHIT AND UNFAIR, BECAUSE I SAY SO".
 
Just beat the
SpiderWoman (not quelaag)
boss and area. She went down the first time i went into the boss room, was a pretty easy fight. Overall the area wasn't that bad, Spiders out the ass though, and got caught in a couple of those Souls style traps.
I'm really trying to take my time and do every submission I can, I can see how this game can last hours. How many areas does the game have? I'm currently on the third area.
 

myco666

Member
i did every sub-mission that shows up before playing the main mission

the game is easy, even MUCH easier than the by FAR the easiest soulsborne game, Disgrace souls 3: knight bosses edition

i guess i'll start playing only the main missions
I wish it was actually easier than Souls. Maybe then I could beat it.
Actually true, level design wise it's fun first time through because it really nails the "I'm going down and down and there's no way back up, shit I'm scared" tone. But, it's frustrating as fuck with the performance on original console release.
Yeah the performance is the reason I have only done it once. Great level but that framerate is so bad.
 
i didn't mean the game itself is ULTRA SHIT

i meant Region
5
is ULTRA SHIT

but the game has some ULTRA MEGA SHIT flaws that i will explain once i finish it

And I'm sure it'll be just as funny as your last few posts. I, for one, can't wait to read this review.
 

Izuna

Banned
This guy was moaning in the thread earlier how UMi was unfair cause it has adds and a health pool.....Hes probably cheesing his way through the game at this point,but still cheese might not be enough for him in sidequests.

tumblr_mie4izFT8F1qbal5ko4_250.gif
 
I found the game pretty much on par with DS3 and Bloodborne in terms of difficulty, I'm dying less in here but just because I'm already experienced with the rules of these games.

Enemies are easier in general, even bosses because they don't have as many attacks as in Souls or Bloodborne, but at the same time your inmunity frames are less in Nioh so it's balanced in that regard.
 

Pejo

Gold Member
Haha, oh my god that (Region 4 spoilers)
trap door that drops you onto the switch that shoots the arrows from the wall when you're sneaking up on the Amrita Fiend in Iga castle.
I haven't laughed at a death so hard in my entire life. At first I was like "whoah, why are there so many graves here?

Now I totally get it. A+ Team Ninja, would die again.

I'm actually absolutely loving (same location spoiler)
Iga castle
in general, what a great level. Reminds me a bit of Sen's Funhouse.

Did a bunch more co-op last night with some dudes. Got paired with a guy on the boat boss, absolutely slaughtered him with
Enko
and Water Blade. Dual katana is just too damn fun.

Also, got some help on one of the side missions from a guy with a big hammer that was doing like 1200 dmg per swing, pretty insane. Since I've been doing dual katana and spear on this run, I might do Axe + the ninja sickle thing for NG+. I really haven't touched either of them.
 

Djostikk

Member
New sword, also love my new look, especially these claw gloves. I always wear claw gloves if they're in the game. Bloodborne had some awesome, too.

 
I'm not going to pretend that NiOh is hard, but Souls is laughable difficulty wise, especially in terms of combat.

I'm with the guy you quoted. I think Souls games are harder. Too easy to cheese bosses here. I know that Soulsborne isn't void of the same criticisms, yet the means of cheesing bosses are far less numerous and accessible.

Sure you don't have to play the game that way, but playing sub-optimally and restricting your gear and build for the sake of difficulty does not make a game truly difficult. Zelda games can be as hard as these if you are willing to play the entire game on hero mode with 3 hearts, yet most people do not see them as difficult because there are obvious avenues to get stronger in the game.

Also, the bosses here are more telegraphable, with less animations and it seems that they always have a sort of pause between attacks. In Souls, and especially Bloodborne it feels as if bosses are relentless, and picking your windows is harder. Take the Bloodstarved beast from Bloodborne, or even father Gascoins second form, he's relentless. Bosses her perform an attack, then they stop for a moment, then they perform another attack, and so on.

I think the most difficult element of this game is the sheer amount of health that bosses have. The game requires you to demonstrate an understanding of the bosses attack pattern for a considerably longer period than in Souls games. Of course this doesn't, matter if your using one of many broken builds.
 

myco666

Member
I found the game pretty much on par with DS3 and Bloodborne in terms of difficulty, I'm dying less in here but just because I'm already experienced with the rules of these games.

Enemies are easier in general, even bosses because they don't have as many attacks as in Souls or Bloodborne, but at the same time your inmunity frames are less in Nioh so it's balanced in that regard.

I don't think bosses have more limited moveset here. Like sure some have bit more limited but most seem to have decent amount. In Souls bosses don't have that many attacks.
 
for me the easiest boss so far was the centipede, i didnt die or anything and killed him in the first fight

second one easiest was hino-enma

third the yokai in the boat

aside from tachibana that even with sloth and 20 levels over him later, was a pain in the ass. the hardest to me so far was nue, then umibozu

subboss-wise i hate the onyudo and tengus (this one found it in a submission) with a passion

right now im in the mission where there's lot of
spiders
 
I don't think bosses have more limited moveset here. Like sure some have bit more limited but most seem to have decent amount. In Souls bosses don't have that many attacks.

Maybe, I have that impression so far. I've entered battles, dying two or three times against a boss taking less than 1/4 of their health and think "damn this is going to take a long time" and then I just beat them in one or two more tries because I already know everything I need and develop a quick strategy. I was seeing a Ludwig guide last night and is insane the amount of attacks that creature has (unfair comparison though, Ludwig is designed to be one of the hardset bosses in Bloodborne).

Anyway, I feel the game kinda easier but it's still challenging and again, I'm sure this is due to experience.
 

IvorB

Member

It's the cape. If there was a cape flip gesture, I'd never wear any other body armor.

Easy to get all of the pieces.

Easiest earliest unique set to get.

Hey I would love to switch to the genius tactican but I need 3 more strength =_=

Well, I wish guys would mix it up. I can't even use it as I don't have the strength. At least it's good for the blacksmith.
 
I don't think bosses have more limited moveset here. Like sure some have bit more limited but most seem to have decent amount. In Souls bosses don't have that many attacks.

I think perhaps you don't think they do because they chain into one another, but they actually have quite a large move pool in Souls games. Take Orphan of Kos for instance, he has over 20 different attacks. That's quite a lot more than most of the bosses here.

Souls bosses tend to have considerable visual overlap with their moves, which makes it seem like they don't have that many, and they also have several that they only use at various ranges, forms, etc. So you can definitely get them stuck into loops where they will perform the same attack sequence repeatedly, but for the most part I think they're move varied than we see in Nioh.

With that said, something to bare in mind in Nioh is some bosses hide their full moveset for twilight modes and such. Not sure how common this is or how many new attacks they can develop, but there are quite a few.
 

Navy Bean

Member
This game is addictive as hell. I don't know if it's tougher than the Souls games but I definitely die more in this game. I just play more recklessly for some reason.

I will say the game play in Nioh is probably more fun to me but the overall experience is less than most of the Souls' games (except BB which I didn't love).
 

Strings

Member
Game is easier than the Souls series without sloth imo. The bosses play similarly, but have less moves and more telegraphs, while the player can do waaaay more shit.

That said, one of the final two side-quests is up there in terms of difficulty,
though it's a bullshit, unsatisfying kind where they just slapped two bosses together and ignored what that did to the frame-rate, etc.

EDIT: Wait, huh, there are new moves in Twilight missions? Are you completely sure? I don't remember seeing anything.
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
What is the 60 request trophy?

After spending a certain amount of money at the blacksmith(buying, forging or whatnot) you earn a point to spend on certain perks like discounts. You have to spend enough money to earn 60 of those points. I believe you get a point for every 100k you spend, so you need a metric fuckton of cash to blow over the course of the game to earn that many perk points.

Dumping points into boosting your sell value helps a bit obviously, but its a ludicrous grind and the trophy that will likely take the longest to earn. Also disassembling your junk instead of selling helps too as the mats you get go for a higher value than the equipment sells for on its own(I suppose at least for a good chunk of the game until the extremely high level gear as some have stated).
 

Kaibutsu

Member
Ok, I've been totally out of the loop because I haven't been reading much about Nioh while I've been playing it and I haven't even looked at the Onmyou tab when I upgrade but I didn't know what sloth even was and didn't realize lots of people have been using it to beat bosses? Actually seeing sloth in action blows my mind, I would have loved to have that for the T
achibana
M
uneshige
sub-mission fight...
 

Silav101

Member
...

So you can definitely get them stuck into loops where they will perform the same attack sequence repeatedly, but for the most part I think they're move varied than we see in Nioh.

With that said, something to bare in mind in Nioh is some bosses hide their full moveset for twilight modes and such. Not sure how common this is or how many new attacks they can develop, but their are quite a few.

It's also mostly due to how, as players, we bait specific modes of attack. Let's take Logarius in Bloodborne - he's vastly less dangerous if you stay close to him, so you don't get to see that much of his moveset if you are constantly riding his bum.

It would, however, be hilarious if for example Hino-enma would randomly use all of her attacks, completely irrespective of player positioning. A point-blank hit of her air kunai attacks would have no real tell, she does two of them in a row, and would likely one-shot.
 
Ok, I've been totally out of the loop because I haven't been reading much about Nioh while I've been playing it and I haven't even looked at the Onmyou tab when I upgrade but I didn't know what sloth even was and didn't realize lots of people have been using it to beat bosses? Actually seeing sloth in action blows my mind, I would have loved to have that for the T
achibana
M
uneshige
sub-mission fight...

Actually the life seal one works better, as he runs out of stamina like crazy. It's critical city with that thing on him.
 

Izuna

Banned
I'm with the guy you quoted. I think Souls games are harder. Too easy to cheese bosses here. I know that Soulsborne isn't void of the same criticisms, yet the means of cheesing bosses are far less numerous and accessible.

Sure you don't have to play the game that way, but playing sub-optimally and restricting your gear and build for the sake of difficulty does not make a game truly difficult. Zelda games can be as hard as these if you are willing to play the entire game on hero mode with 3 hearts, yet most people do not see them as difficult because there are obvious avenues to get stronger in the game.

Also, the bosses here are more telegraphable, with less animations and it seems that they always have a sort of pause between attacks. In Souls, and especially Bloodborne it feels as if bosses are relentless, and picking your windows is harder. Take the Bloodstarved beast from Bloodborne, or even father Gascoins second form, he's relentless. Bosses her perform an attack, then they stop for a moment, then they perform another attack, and so on.

I think the most difficult element of this game is the sheer amount of health that bosses have. The game requires you to demonstrate an understanding of the bosses attack pattern for a considerably longer period than in Souls games. Of course this doesn't, matter if your using one of many broken builds.

You're not this far yet in the game, but O and Y (you'll know what that means) is like a mid-way boss on MNM NGB or as hard as any Mentor boss in NG2, even with Sloth and LW.

I don't think it's particularly fair to judge the game's difficulty based on LW (which has been patched, apparently), but for Sloth I agree, it's really stupid for working on bosses and shouldn't be as effective.

I'll have to get back to you on Bloodborne, but I've done SL1 0 deaths runs (twice to be exact) in DeS and that game had two bosses you couldn't "cheese" or use a winnable strat for. I dunno if you're played, but it's Flamelurker and the final boss (who with no magic is probably the hardest fight).

I've not seen anything in DkS1 runs or anything that I've played harder than what was required in the SL1 DeS run, and I did O&S and didn't realise there was anything to it until like months later) --

I think it comes down to playstyle. Because what's require to SL1 a Souls game is what's required to beat Tachibana easily. Wait for an opening, dodge every attack. That's the bare minimum for difficult NG bosses. That works for basically every single encounter in Souls, but it's not how it's meant to be played outside of bosses (dunno about Bloodborne). The Encounter design allows for Magic/Long-range etc. that trivialises all of the slow attacking enemies. The main component for difficult in Souls is merely knowledge.

You can't just "tell" someone to be better against a NG boss. You can give better strats or say which moves are the best for the fight, as you can with a few NiOh bosses.

With Souls, you just tell someone the elemental weakness or some gimmick and the boss can't touch you...

I'm not goin to make an arbritrary list but NiOh is like Hard on NGB on average, with a couple of exceptions including the one I mentioned. Souls doesn't come close to that.
 

Sanctuary

Member
This game is addictive as hell. I don't know if it's tougher than the Souls games but I definitely die more in this game. I just play more recklessly for some reason.

I will say the game play in Nioh is probably more fun to me but the overall experience is less than most of the Souls' games (except BB which I didn't love).

Agreed 100%, although as it stands right now, I already know it's going to end up in my top three of this year (a super stacked year at that). Game has a lot really minor issues that drag it down for me in some ways, but it's just so good at so many others.

That spell sounds pretty broken. Here I am forgetting to use living weapon every time I have it

I did that initially too, because I thought I should be saving it as a panic button, or for bosses. Eventually I started using it as much as possible due to having a set bonus that has a chance to restore Ninjitsu after you use Living Weapon. Anyway,
Sloth really is broken. You practically go into bullet time once it's on a boss.
But that's okay. There are a few enemies that are borderline broken, that I can spend ridiculous time on, or have that spell used on them every single time I encounter them.
 

Navy Bean

Member
The game got about 10x easier when I realized that blocking actually works lol. Spent the first two areas dodging all the time, which works, but can get dicey.
 

Hanmik

Member
So close to platinum. That 60 requests feels like it's gonna take forever, I have practically every other trophy in the game and only ~6 million gold, selling literally everything(not offering or disassembling)

there is a bug in 1.02 that lets you get that trophy easy..

There seems to be an exploit (with patch 1.02) that allows you to get all request points by talking to Tome and Muramasa over and over again. Just spam the X-Button on their dialogue. Even after exhausting all dialogue options it should give you another 2-4 points every 5-10 minutes (even when it shows the same dialogue every time). If talking to Tome doesn’t give new points, talk to Muramasa instead (and vice versa). If you don’t get any new points after 10 minutes play one missions, buy and sell some stuff, repeat. This could very well get patched out in the future but it has worked for several people using patch 1.02. Using this trick you may not need to farm money at all.
 

Izuna

Banned
And I want to bring up one more point. DeS Black World Tendency in subsequent NG++++++ has nothing on the bullshit NiOh throws at you in some of the NG+ Twilight missions... so if Infinite LW goes...

Soloing that stuff is going to be crazy, and Sloth doesn't even make it that much more manageable.
 

Hybris

Member
The game got about 10x easier when I realized that blocking actually works lol. Spent the first two areas dodging all the time, which works, but can get dicey.

I thought this game was hard because everything that hit me would combo into me being dead, then I found out blocking gets you out of combos and now I hardly ever die.
 

ISee

Member
Can't get past the boss in the 'water temple' area. I get him pretty easy into phase 2 but then everything goes wrong. Everything else was really doable in 4-5 tries but here i'm already on my 12th.
Insane amount of HP and the additional adds plus a very limited arena.
 

Strings

Member
You're not this far yet in the game, but O and Y (you'll know what that means) is like a mid-way boss on MNM NGB or as hard as any Mentor boss in NG2, even with Sloth and LW.

Eeeeeeh. I went back and replayed the fight after re-speccing into sloth while cheesing NG+, and it was laughable. Sloth turns it into just a fight with Y, where O is her health bar, if that makes sense? You just sloth him and watch her. Play in slow motion along with them because the frame-rate tanks.

there is a bug in 1.02 that lets you get that trophy easy..

There seems to be an exploit (with patch 1.02) that allows you to get all request points by talking to Tome and Muramasa over and over again. Just spam the X-Button on their dialogue. Even after exhausting all dialogue options it should give you another 2-4 points every 5-10 minutes (even when it shows the same dialogue every time). If talking to Tome doesn't give new points, talk to Muramasa instead (and vice versa). If you don't get any new points after 10 minutes play one missions, buy and sell some stuff, repeat. This could very well get patched out in the future but it has worked for several people using patch 1.02. Using this trick you may not need to farm money at all.

I'm pretty sure this was hotfixed or something. I tried it and it wasn't working.
 

Freeman76

Member
I'm with the guy you quoted. I think Souls games are harder. Too easy to cheese bosses here. I know that Soulsborne isn't void of the same criticisms, yet the means of cheesing bosses are far less numerous and accessible.

Sure you don't have to play the game that way, but playing sub-optimally and restricting your gear and build for the sake of difficulty does not make a game truly difficult. Zelda games can be as hard as these if you are willing to play the entire game on hero mode with 3 hearts, yet most people do not see them as difficult because there are obvious avenues to get stronger in the game.

Also, the bosses here are more telegraphable, with less animations and it seems that they always have a sort of pause between attacks. In Souls, and especially Bloodborne it feels as if bosses are relentless, and picking your windows is harder. Take the Bloodstarved beast from Bloodborne, or even father Gascoins second form, he's relentless. Bosses her perform an attack, then they stop for a moment, then they perform another attack, and so on.

I think the most difficult element of this game is the sheer amount of health that bosses have. The game requires you to demonstrate an understanding of the bosses attack pattern for a considerably longer period than in Souls games. Of course this doesn't, matter if your using one of many broken builds.


Anybody who says souls difficulty is 'laughable' is not living in the real world. Unfortunately I still have to suffer that guys incessant need to talk shit about difficulty and to post every 2 minutes being a pest through quotes lol
 

Navy Bean

Member
I thought this game was hard because everything that hit me would combo into me being dead, then I found out blocking gets you out of combos and now I hardly ever die.

Exactly. I was playing it like Bloodborne. But it's more like Demons' Souls with enhanced movement and combos.
 

Freeman76

Member
The game got about 10x easier when I realized that blocking actually works lol. Spent the first two areas dodging all the time, which works, but can get dicey.

Hmmmm. Im at region 3 now and still havent realised the use of blocking, I dodge all the time too and have found the game really tough going. Will give this a try later it might make life easier.
 
Game is amazing, combat is god tier. Overall though it is easier then Souls games for me, by quite a margin. I rarely die and have beaten every boss solo. Level design, exploration and enemy design/variety are a step down from Souls too. Great game though none the less.
 

Izuna

Banned
Eeeeeeh. I went back and replayed the fight after re-speccing into sloth while cheesing NG+, and it was laughable. Sloth turns it into just a fight with Y, where O is her health bar, if that makes sense? You just sloth him and watch her. Play in slow motion along with them because the frame-rate tanks.

I wasn't saying it was impossible. It only took me like 3 tries total and I can see myself getting it first try again, but like Volf in NG2 Mentor, it's not "oh no I can't get past this road-block" difficult. I was just saying it's definitely harder than anything Souls throws at you.
 

Hybris

Member
And I want to bring up one more point. DeS Black World Tendency in subsequent NG++++++ has nothing on the bullshit NiOh throws at you in some of the NG+ Twilight missions... so if Infinite LW goes...

Soloing that stuff is going to be crazy, and Sloth doesn't even make it that much more manageable.

Which ones are the hardest? I've only done 3 on NG+, hardest so far for me was the one side mission yesterday, with the crazy last wave. Took me a few tries before I lived through that mess.
 

Izuna

Banned
anyone who played the first mission has already seen ALL the weapons

uhhhh

--

Also, I had no idea LW was that much better with Spear. It seems to completely ignore blocking and does full damage anyway. Probably why I didn't think Infinite LW was that much of an issue. Might give the Spear a go in the future, seems like a great weapon.
 
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