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Nioh |OT| Stamina is Ki

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I'm sorry but your video is the equivalent of cornering your friend in Street fighter when he doesn't even know he can counter attack. Seriously that's the opposite of fun to me.

Why? Do you know how much input is required to pull those off? Constantly switching stances and double fluxing, after using your skill set to break his ki. If you drop the combo after breaking his ki, he instantly does his revenge recovery.

Compare this to high level dark souls play
https://youtu.be/RrXOJQIrGZk
O shit i rolled, then attacked, and again and again. This compared to the party going on in just my stance bar alone, makes nioh alot more fun. If i played this game like souls i probably wouldnt have even brought the game.

edit: gdi can i stop getting top page posts, about a topic i dont care about too much.
 

Hystzen

Member
I miss the weapon durability from first demo it was easy to manage and meant you had carry two weapons now you can do whole game without ever switching melee weapon to your secondary.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Kusarigama has wind up issues lol As the game goes on the attacks stay quick but nowhere near as powerful as other weapons. You can't just square,square,square,square in High Stance and expect to guard break everything.

You don't. You stay in low stance and mash quick attack, then shoryuken after you do the ground stab as they are rising (or just mash quick attack some more). The wind up is precisely why high stance is not so good with it, and actual combos are fucking pointless on over half of the enemies in the game due to them not getting stunned, and just plowing through your followup. The best thing with high stance is where you throw the chain out long distance, but the recovery sucks, and you have to pretty much do it at max range always. Although it's actually a good stance for one particular boss fight to use combos out of. Mid stance is the best stance if you want to use the sickle for quick pokes.
 
Why? Do you know how much input is required to pull those off? Constantly switching stances and double fluxing, after using your skill set to break his ki. If you drop the combo after breaking his ki, he instantly does his revenge recovery.

Compare this to high level dark souls play
https://youtu.be/RrXOJQIrGZk
O shit i rolled, then attacked, and again and again. This compared to the party going on in just my stance bar alone, makes nioh alot more fun. If i played this game like souls i probably wouldnt have even brought the game.

Lets find one video and generalise about a 80 + hour game....And you can indeed play many other ways in Souls like you can in Nioh. Why is whats valid for Nioh not for Souls? I can literally play Nioh exactly like souls, and easily get through it, or I can just block/counter rinse repeat./....This can be applied to both games. I can go full magic/range in Souls.
 

Menthuss

Member
Sorry, I always forget the names and don't have the game in front of me. That's L1 + Triangle in Mid Stance, correct? I assume the II one is the follow up slice? I've been messing around with Water Shadow against
Hanzo in the Dojo
to get the timing down. Timing is fine now and I feel super-cool but I can't seem to follow it up with anything worthwhile on him...maybe it's just him specifically? I really just started messing with it last night and only against him specifically so I have yet to try it on regular mobs.

Yeah, it's the triangle parry.
I'm pretty sure after the Water Shadow: II counter attack you can't follow it up with anything since they get back up during the recovery frames of the counter. The 2nd square parry (Haze I and II) are more flexible in that regard I've found.
 
The parry and finisher animations are god-tier.

sharefactory_20170211203650_-gif.58840
 
Why? Do you know how much input is required to pull those off? Constantly switching stances and double fluxing, after using your skill set to break his ki. If you drop the combo after breaking his ki, he instantly does his revenge recovery.

Compare this to high level dark souls play
https://youtu.be/RrXOJQIrGZk
O shit i rolled, then attacked, and again and again. This compared to the party going on in just my stance bar alone, makes nioh alot more fun. If i played this game like souls i probably wouldnt have even brought the game.

I'm not saying you're not skilled, but you're are diminishing the skill required to fight enemies that can't be destroyed and petrified by an skilled offensive player. You can't do what you did in many bosses in Souls. You think that combining different sets of movements is skill while dodging the many attacks bosses have is just a timed reaction or whatever, but it requires skill to do that. Besides, you can make some chained combos in Souls too, at least in 3 and Bloodborne, what you can't do is inmovilize the boss for 75% the time as you did in your video, which I find really boring. Not your fault though, the game allowed you to do that, is just that you needed skill to accomplish it.
 

ISee

Member
Finally! Umi Bozu is down.
This was the hardest Boss so far because of the amount of HP he has. It was an insanely long fight.
 
Yeah, it's the triangle parry.
I'm pretty sure after the Water Shadow: II counter attack you can't follow it up with anything since they get back up during the recovery frames of the counter. The 2nd square parry (Haze I and II) are more flexible in that regard I've found.

May go with Haze then since I'm going pretty damn light & mobile all around. On another note, I've been messing around with the LS UP + X move that puts you behind the enemy's back in low stance a lot and it's pretty damn useful on top of just looking slick as hell.

I busted out a huge combo string with it during Co-Op and my summoner just stood at a distance and started the clapping gesture while I was doing it. Really fun moment.
 

xviper

Member
sPKvNk7.gif


This fight was hard as balls and I died a lot, but I'm so proud of this parry.

if any one is having problems with fights like this

i defeated him and another one like him without them barely touching me, maybe they hit me just 1 hit, max

just run away and use R1+circle with the sword, run away then R1+cricle and repeat and i guarantee that you will find it the easiest boss in the game

make sure there is enough space between you and him so you can safely charge your move
 
I'm not saying you're not skilled, but you're are diminishing the skill required to fight enemies that can't be destroyed and petrified by an skilled offensive player. You can't do what you did in many bosses in Souls. You think that combining different sets of movements is skill while dodging the many attacks bosses have is just a timed reaction or whatever, but it requires skill to do that. Besides, you can make some chained combos in Souls too, at least in 3 and Bloodborne, what you can't do if inmovilize the boss for 75% the time as you did in your video, which I find really boring. Not your fault though, the game allowed you to do that, is just that you needed skill to accomplish it.

This, his posts are biased as fuck, there are many enemies in Souls that require different strategies. In fact, one of Niohs biggest weakness is enemy variety is really lacking. This makes the player learn new enemy attacks., Souls has this in spades. Not to mention there are a lot of different move sets, and ways to play souls, same as Nioh.
 
C'mon Dark Souls gameplay is for babies in comparison to Nioh.

Why do people feel the need to talk with such hyperbole? Nioh has more dynamic combat sure, Souls does a lot of other things better like world and level design, enemy design/variety, exploration. Souls is quite a bit harder.
 

Hybris

Member
If i played this game like souls i probably wouldnt have even brought the game.

This so much. I was explaining to my friend that if this game didn't have such a depth of combat tech, it would just be a shittier souls. The bosses in nioh aren't as well animated, designed, etc as they are in souls. There is no real reason to explore maps fully in nioh aside from kodamas. The enemy variety in general is lacking.

They took all that time and energy that could have been spent on improving those things, and they put it into the depth of the combat system. And damn does it show. The game is an absolute pleasure to play if you are trying to do cool stuff with the combat system.

If you just play it as a souls game by playing in mid stance and just dodge and light attack your way through the game, you are not going to find this game great because you are not playing the game the way it SHOULD be played.
 
The game got about 10x easier when I realized that blocking actually works lol. Spent the first two areas dodging all the time, which works, but can get dicey.

Yeah, you really have to change the chip if you played too much souls games.

Now my problem is that I block too much sometimed lol
 

Freeman76

Member
Why do people feel the need to talk with such hyperbole? Nioh has more dynamic combat sure, Souls does a lot of other things better like world and level design, enemy design/variety, exploration. Souls is quite a bit harder.

Man half the people saying shit like that probably havent even played them. Games like this attract the most annoying type of gamers. This OT is awful.
 

Trakan

Member
Why do people feel the need to talk with such hyperbole? Nioh has more dynamic combat sure, Souls does a lot of other things better like world and level design, enemy design/variety, exploration. Souls is quite a bit harder.

I'd agree Souls does all those things way better, but what does that have to do with the difficulty? If you find this game easy, I'm curious to know what about Souls makes it harder?
 

Izuna

Banned
I'm not saying you're not skilled, but you're are diminishing the skill required to fight enemies that can't be destroyed and petrified by an skilled offensive player. You can't do what you did in many bosses in Souls. You think that combining different sets of movements is skill while dodging the many attacks bosses have is just a timed reaction or whatever, but it requires skill to do that. Besides, you can make some chained combos in Souls too, at least in 3 and Bloodborne, what you can't do is inmovilize the boss for 75% the time as you did in your video, which I find really boring. Not your fault though, the game allowed you to do that, is just that you needed skill to accomplish it.

Uh, no... he's just dodging through all the damage
 
Can someone explain the Omnyo magic thing to me? I've upped my Omnyo to 10 and I can't seem to do anything else atm.

I'm currently at the 2nd boss and need to do something in order to have an advantage. I can't do anything.
 
I'd agree Souls does all those things way better, but what does that have to do with the difficulty? If you find this game easy, I'm curious to know what about Souls makes it hard?

You die from a lot more things in Souls? Enemy variety directly plays into difficulty as new enemies = New attacks to learn, Nioh really lacks in this area. Fourth area I am still fighting the same yokai and skeletons with the same attack patterns. Souls worlds are also littered with a lot more traps, dangers, like curses, losing your health when hollow, more enemies at you at once...etc..
 

Menthuss

Member
Can someone explain the Omnyo magic thing to me? I've upped my Omnyo to 10 and I can't seem to do anything else atm.

I'm currently at the 2nd boss and need to do something in order to have an advantage. I can't do anything.

You should have elemental talismans at that point. They're pretty useful.
 
Lets find one video and generalise about a 80 + hour game....And you can indeed play many other ways in Souls like you can in Nioh. Why is whats valid for Nioh not for Souls? I can literally play Nioh exactly like souls, and easily get through it, or I can just block/counter rinse repeat./....This can be applied to both games. I can go full magic/range in Souls.

That video is me, that is literally the only fight in the game i find truely exciting, that is how dark souls plays at its hardest. That boss requires excellent spacing, timing and memorization, which is often what makes souls great. Nioh requires this is a basis for its main story content and alot more from you in side content.
Try 2 flame wheels, a cannon skeleton, a dual sword revenant and guitar summoner in the tachibana arena, souls has nothing like this and you wont get through it just pressing attack buttons.

I'm not saying you're not skilled, but you're are diminishing the skill required to fight enemies that can't be destroyed and petrified by an skilled offensive player. You can't do what you did in many bosses in Souls. You think that combining different sets of movements is skill while dodging the many attacks bosses have is just a timed reaction or whatever, but it requires skill to do that. Besides, you can make some chained combos in Souls too, at least in 3 and Bloodborne, what you can't do is inmovilize the boss for 75% the time as you did in your video, which I find really boring. Not your fault though, the game allowed you to do that, is just that you needed skill to accomplish it.

Yea im not really sure i get this complaint, high skill, high reward is what most people want from a fighting or action game. Doing long combos because its easy is boring (see vergil dmc4), doing long combos because you put in the time and learnt how systems work is amazing (See dante dmc4 or nioh :p).

This so much. I was explaining to my friend that if this game didn't have such a depth of combat tech, it would just be a shittier souls. The bosses in nioh aren't as well animated, designed, etc as they are in souls. There is no real reason to explore maps fully in nioh aside from kodamas. The enemy variety in general is lacking.

They took all that time and energy that could have been spent on improving those things, and they put it into the depth of the combat system. And damn does it show. The game is an absolute pleasure to play if you are trying to do cool stuff with the combat system.

If you just play it as a souls game by playing in mid stance and just dodge and light attack your way through the game, you are not going to find this game great because you are not playing the game the way it SHOULD be played.

Its a fault of the game IMO, they dumbed in down since alpha/beta, put the real game we've been playing for over a year in hard mode, and all the fun stuff in side quests.

This, his posts are biased as fuck, there are many enemies in Souls that require different strategies. In fact, one of Niohs biggest weakness is enemy variety is really lacking. This makes the player learn new enemy attacks., Souls has this in spades. Not to mention there are a lot of different move sets, and ways to play souls, same as Nioh.

I'm not sure why you think my posts are biased. I'm pretty critical of games, especially ones i love like this and souls. I've mentioned concerns here about level design/enemy variety/(game being mostly shit outside of combat) since alpha.

You die from a lot more things in Souls? Enemy variety directly plays into difficulty as new enemies = New attacks to learn, Nioh really lacks in this area. Fourth area I am still fighting the same yokai and skeletons with the same attack patterns. Souls worlds are also littered with a lot more traps, dangers, like curses, losing your health when hollow, etc..
Seriously, your discussing the start of the game with someone has an informed opinion of the full game and majority of ng+. Why did i bother trying to reply.
 
C'mon Dark Souls gameplay is for babies in comparison to Nioh.

DS is surprisingly complex below the simple controls level. Poise dmg, iframes, poise reduction, hyperarmor, block frames, parry frames, parry startup frames, etc...

There's several systems layered under the simple control scheme. Not saying is DMC levels, but way more that people gives it credit.

I think blocking is overpowered, it makes the game pretty easy, you can block almost anything and just counter. Should be more stamina penalty or something.

Depends of the armor and weapon? As I light armor user and katana user I can't depend on block, I actually I easily run out of stamina.

Some attacks are meant to block rather tan evade, but still I mainly evade and use block as a safety.
 
Yes..it is. Souls throws a lot more at you especially in the environments.
I responded to you with a single sentence to show how asinine your comment is because it's an opinion. How can you objectively say that? Dark Souls 3 base game didn't have many environmental hazards you had to worry about while fighting enemies.
 

Lorcain

Member
The Spear on the other hand is on an entirely different plane of cheese compared to all other weapons. It beats the Kusarigama in terms of safety and counter poking against practically every enemy, and it has better (IMO) skills in general, and a much better living weapon.
I think that's consistent with the weapon itself historically. It's a fantasy game for sure, but the spear being the easiest and safest weapon to use makes sense. I'm good with the implementation in Nioh. I'm glad there's a weapon that people of all skill levels can use well.

I've been using the kusarigama as my main weapon because I thought it would be the finesse, technical weapon of Nioh, like the Threaded Cane from BB. It's really not that technical. I'm surprised that you can brute force with it so well. The only time I switch away from it is when I need a weapon that has immediate animation feedback for faster bosses.
 

Sanctuary

Member
You die from a lot more things in Souls? Enemy variety directly plays into difficulty as new enemies = New attacks to learn, Nioh really lacks in this area. Fourth area I am still fighting the same yokai and skeletons with the same attack patterns. Souls worlds are also littered with a lot more traps, dangers, like curses, losing your health when hollow, more enemies at you at once...etc..

The difference is, most encounters in Souls don't have enemies that take off a third or half of your health in a single hit (or combo that acts as a single hit) constantly showing up in every single area. It doesn't matter if you "learned" their patterns in this game or not, when they are so much faster on average than anything in the Souls games. It's often like playing against the hammer wielding Dragon Shrine giants. But not just in a single area, but everywhere. The difficulty in the Souls games also seems to be more linear. In this game it goes from way up, to off a cliff, to way back up again at random.

It's not just revisionist history either when I say that I've had more difficulty in this game than any of the previous Souls games, which includes beating Demon's the first time. The Souls games allow you one thing you just can't use in this game as well: patience.
 
This so much. I was explaining to my friend that if this game didn't have such a depth of combat tech, it would just be a shittier souls. The bosses in nioh aren't as well animated, designed, etc as they are in souls. There is no real reason to explore maps fully in nioh aside from kodamas. The enemy variety in general is lacking.

They took all that time and energy that could have been spent on improving those things, and they put it into the depth of the combat system. And damn does it show. The game is an absolute pleasure to play if you are trying to do cool stuff with the combat system.

If you just play it as a souls game by playing in mid stance and just dodge and light attack your way through the game, you are not going to find this game great because you are not playing the game the way it SHOULD be played.

True, althought I wouldn't go as far to say that the game is not well animated, designed, and everything else you said. I find it quite good in every aspect, just not as good as Souls. Combat is really the star of the game in a way I'd say it's better than Souls in some aspects and weaker in others but that's saying quite a lot.
 

Menthuss

Member
Can they be accessed via the shrine? or are they in a different section of the skills menu? Also what elemental talisman do you recommend?

Once you've unlocked them via the skill selection screen, you have to go to the Prepare Jutsu screen at the shrine and equip your Onmyo skills. After that, make sure to assign shortcuts to those respective skills.
Fire's a pretty good element since its associated status effect is damage of time. I forgot what the others do :p
 
The difference is, most encounters in Souls don't have enemies that take off a third or half of your health in a single hit (or combo that acts as a single hit) constantly showing up in every single area. It doesn't matter if you "learned" their patterns in this game or not, when they are so much faster on average than anything in the Souls games. It's often like playing against the hammer wielding Dragon Shrine giants. But not just in a single area, but everywhere.

hmm what? Did you even play souls? This is flat untrue. There are also many phantoms/enemies in Souls as fast or faster then any enemy in Nioh. Saying it doesn't matter if you know an enemies patterns verus not is , just..nonsense. It makes a huge difference.

Okay, you're gunna have to show me a video

Because Nothing in DeS or DkS is...

Then you never played them then....Just look up any black phantom in souls. Anyone who says Souls isn't hard is not in reality. Souls is quite a bit harder then Nioh.
 

Izuna

Banned
hmm what? Did you even play souls? This is flat untrue. There are also many phantoms/enemies in Souls as fast or faster then any enemy in Nioh.

Okay, you're gunna have to show me a video

Because Nothing in DeS or DkS is...

Can't believe hard is synonymous with Souls in the context of action games.
 
Once you've unlocked them via the skill selection screen, you have to go to the Prepare Jutsu screen at the shrine and equip your Onmyo skills. After that, make sure to assign shortcuts to those respective skills.
Fire's a pretty good element since its associated status effect is damage of time. I forgot what the others do :p

Awesome! Thanks!

This game is legit.
 
That video is me, that is literally the only fight in the game i find truely exciting, that is how dark souls plays at its hardest. That boss requires excellent spacing, timing and memorization, which is often what makes souls great. Nioh requires this is a basis for its main story content and alot more from you in side content.
Try 2 flame wheels, a cannon skeleton, a dual sword revenant and guitar summoner in the tachibana arena, souls has nothing like this and you wont get through it just pressing attack buttons.

Try 9 spider from hell, constantly spawning ,plus watchers, plus crazy maidens and other crazy combinations you can get on BB.
 

Manu

Member
I spammed Whirlwind on him endlessly and he couldn't touch me (I'm a DS/Kursarigama player).

Was stupidly easy.

Some builds appear to break the game, or at least make it significantly easier.

One of my friends is playing with a spear and enemies can't even get close to him. It doesn't make sense.
 

Sanctuary

Member
hmm what? Did you even play souls? This is flat untrue. There are also many phantoms/enemies in Souls as fast or faster then any enemy in Nioh. Saying it doesn't matter if you know an enemies patterns verus not is , just..nonsense. It makes a huge difference.

Then you never played them then....Just look up any black phantom in souls. Anyone who says Souls isn't hard is not in reality. Souls is quite a bit harder then Nioh.

Jesus Christ. You don't fight Black Phantoms constantly. That's reality. The other reality is that the Souls games a) have shields and b) also have way more useful magic all around (aside from 6x max Sloth). It has more options to take out your enemies. This game plays more like a faster, more refined (combat wise) version of Bloodborne than anything. I'm just assuming you're the one with a bad memory about how much easier those games could be, especially Dark Souls with Poise.
 
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