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Jimquisition: Weapon Durability, Fanbase Fragility (Mar. 13th, 2017)
- Thread starter L~A
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Deckard Chapel
Banned
Says the person with Brad Pitt from the movie "Se7en" as their avatar - a movie with billions of viewers about a man that psychopathically obsesses about completing a string of 7 murders to accomplish his agenda - what's your point? If I had "Flo" from Progressive Insurance as my avatar, should that make any of my comments and opinions less valid?
gamerMan
Member
Totally, it is a radical approach to game design as you are removing all the invisible walls that exist in most games. You are presented with a world and a set of rules and asking the player to play in the playground. You can go throw tanbark around mindlessly or you can ride the rides. The only gate is your creativity and the rules of the world.
Hierophant
Banned
honestly cannot think of any comparison, even the horizon shitfit didn't rival this tantrum that's currently unfolding
AquaWateria
Member
Uncharted 3 lmao.
freethoughtbubble
Member
Those are fair points. I will however point out that most if not all of the incentives you mentioned are in botw. Enemies are weak/resistant to certain attacks, etc. For those who enjoy it, the degradation system adds another layer to the combat: an improvisational element that always keeps you on your toes--or at least it does if the player chooses to engage with the game's combat rather than try to avoid it. Some of best fights I've had in this game felt like barroom brawls, with weapons shattering and combatants scrambling for the last lizalfos boomerang. I personally find it really fun and unique.
I can't say you're wrong regarding the perceived negative impact this has on the flow of combat. If that has been your experience, I'm not going to dismiss it. But it has not been my experience. Switching weapons is quick and painless, and I've found it possible, useful and fun to switch from weapon to weapon in the heat of battle based on what's happening at a given moment.
I do agree with you regarding the inventory management being a bit clunky. It's a common complaint but a minor one in the grand scheme of things.
Hierophant
Banned
that was before I got on the forum but yeah that escaped me
Parapraxis
Member
He is stretching, like, an incredible amount for the Witcher 3, many many people have problems with Witcher 3's combat because range and enemy location is actually important. It takes skill to be okay, and even more to master. Click the Witcher 3 link he was literally focused on the guy farther away, this is actually a sign of good controls imo, you can pick the exact enemy you want to target and not just the nearest one. This guy sucks at the game BTW lol.
OT: why are you posting this? BotW combat is lock-on and messy
Sometimes but not always. Plenty of camps have decent loot. But you act like BotW is the first game to give you pointless enemy encounters. The vast majority of enemies in all games yield little to no direct reward other than progression. You're afforded the same thing in BotW only you're given a choice most of the time if you want to engage or not. If you want to play stealthy, go right ahead. If you want to use your environment, you can. If you want to just sneak by and not engage at all, you usually can. If you want to take out every single enemy you encounter, guess what, you totally can! I know because that's how I tend to play! You can barrel through every encounter, though you have to be really good at combat. What you absolutely CAN'T do is play the entire game with your favorite weapon. But why is that so vitally important? Every game offers you a limited number of play styles. Do you dock other games for not offering every possible way to play? Are you mad you can't pause in combat in Dark Souls? The audacity of From to put limitations on a game!
To be clear, if someone doesn't like the fact you can't pause and that ruins Dark Souls for them, why should that matter? People are able to dislike a game mechanic, meaning not every game will work for everyone. Not taking about the quoted post specifically but a lot of people who don't like the weapon durability act like it's somehow wrong to put limitations on a player or that BotW forces you to play a single way or that BotW is obligated to play like other games. So what if you can't blaze through the game with all your favorite weapons lasting forever. There's no reason Nintendo absolutely had to make that a gameplay mechanic. The breakable weapons are part of the game design. Once you just accept you have the weapons you have because that's what the game gives you, better weapons become limited time power ups and that's an easier pill to swallow.
Now, if you don't like inventory management and how you have to switch weapons so much, that's a bummer because that's how it's meant to be played.
the truth about a good reviewer:
The mark of a good reviewer is not how often you agree with them.
It's not how much he praises stuff you like.
It's when you can respect his/her opinion and understand his/her perspective even when you disagree. I disagreed with Roger Ebert frequently, but he was stunningly knowledgeable about the movies he reviewed, and always laid out a brilliant and concise explanation for why he arrived at his conclusions.
Shamrock7r
Member
Dude is whining about weapon durability and he is busting out Rusty Broadswords in the video, lol
Steve Youngblood
Member
The video footage was apparently provided by Laura Kate Dale.
People keep saying this but I don't notice the Master Sword being any better against the guardians than anything else. It does 30 damage per swipe. That's not "amazing" by any stretch, and against a Guardian Scout IV it won't even do enough damage without mid-level attack buffs to take down its whole life bar. I mean it's nice that you can blow through its durability to save another weapon that wouldn't regen, but that's about it.
I don't mind the weapons breaking overall, but I do think almost all of them break way too fast. Durability of almost everything should be doubled or tripled, IMO. As it is now, everything feels like it's made of tissue paper, made worse by the fact that rewards for combat are rarely worth what resources you use to obtain them. Late in the game I'm pretty tired of burning through two or three weapons to take out a camp of high level enemies only for the chest in the camp to give me a spear that's maybe half as good as the weapons I broke getting it.
This also can't be emphasized enough. One of the most useful movie critics working today for me is the SF Chronicle's Mick LaSalle. He has terrible taste and hates great movies and loves terrible ones, but by reading his opinions I know that mine will almost always be the opposite of his, so he is a valuable critic to me. Critics aren't supposed to agree with you, they're supposed to make you more informed. Jim, for the most part, does that better than most in the field, IMO.
Parapraxis
Member
I mean, he's just using b-roll footage of the first parts of the game as not to have spoilers.
He even stated that clearly.
Shamrock7r
Member
Was stating it in a joking manner.
Regardless, his arguments about the weapon durability in Zelda don't make much sense.
ffejeromdiks
Banned
This is pretty ignorant, you've clearly never tried it or you would realize
that the Master Sword buffs itself to a 60 damage weapon in the presence of Calamity Ganon's magic, it's powerful enough to knock a guardian over on it's side and expose it's weak point on it's belly, as well as cutting through it's legs.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
I find WWII to be a "good" war, in regards to what the Allied Powers accomplished under the duress applied by the Axis. It bettered humanity and changed the face of democracy and war as we know it.
You can't however, gloss over the horrible, despicable atrocities committed by the Nazis that occurred during the interim. It was a time of utter horror and crimes against humanity that none of us can, or will fully ever comprehend.
Jim Sterling's argument is "good" - and I disagree entirely with it.
MHWilliams
Member
This is intriguing nonsense. Straight up. Like, I understand how you feel it's a cogent post with a point, but nah.
Back to Zelda, my friend.
What🤔
I agree with everything Jim said in his video. I don't think I would rate the game a 7/10, most probably around 8/10, but I share all of his criticisms and have echoed them all on this forum in multiple threads(while similarly getting attacked from all sides for not agreeing with the hive mind and echo chamber).
That would make a great copypasta.
In what world does that comparison even make the slightest bit of sense? You're saying that Jim saying he thinks Breath of the Wild is a good game is him saying Breath of the Wild is like World War II? What? I mean... what!?
Deckard Chapel
Banned
Let's just all agree to disagree, lock the thread and get back to playing whatever game it is that makes us grin from ear to ear
Lil'DigiOp
Member
I haven't played the game but forreal is your weapons breaking like the footage he uses??
Like does that shit break after 4 hits? Thats stupid.
Like does that shit break after 4 hits? Thats stupid.
And 7/10 isn't a mediocre score, 5/10 is.
I'm enjoying the game for what it is but I completely agree with Jim on all his points and find that a 7/10 is a good score for it. In the end of the day it's his opinion and it just so happens that what he didn't enjoy about the game lowered his score, I see nothing wrong with this.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
No, I'm saying that there's sometimes bad in every good and even though some of you think that what Jim Sterling said was good - there's a lot of bad in how he possibly premeditatedly accomplished and delivered what he said.
Oh. So that's what's going on.
I'm honestly not surprised that's where he thought of BotW's weapon system. Jim's a goalpost moving fuckwit so any requirement to think his actions through, even to the minimal extent BotW asks of him, would overload his pog addled mind.
Jim is a sad 'little' man, out to make himself and those around him angry.
I'm honestly not surprised that's where he thought of BotW's weapon system. Jim's a goalpost moving fuckwit so any requirement to think his actions through, even to the minimal extent BotW asks of him, would overload his pog addled mind.
Jim is a sad 'little' man, out to make himself and those around him angry.
Look what Zelda does to people
Shamrock7r
Member
I read some of your posts in the previous thread. You got defensive when a few posters rightfully pointed out that it sounded like you and others weren't being very smart with your methods of attack. At no point in this game should you be weaponless if you are using and reasonable thought process to approaching fighting situations. Sometimes, it is the players fault. I find most of the arguments to related to the weapon durability in Zelda are a result of the player just not being aware or thinking of their options.
Hierophant
Banned
what the fuck are you even trying to say
this is the strangest thing I've seen on neogaf
Thor 2: The Dark World
Deckard Chapel
Banned
I agree with this.
If you're a skillful gamer, then you should have no issue with the durability mechanic in BOTW because you'll always plan ahead and have plenty of weapons on hand.
Parapraxis
Member
Jesus, if you're not surprised he went there maybe his arguments have some merit lol.
He seemed to go there and do so with pretty solid reasoning.
The insults are in really poor taste btw.
I don't think it takes skill to keep plenty of weapons on hand in this game, unless you are going out of your way to drop them from your inventory. If anything a good portion of time is spent freeing up space to make room for marginally better equipment. Inventory is almost always full in this game, not sure how it wouldn't be after any significant amount of time.
Fellow skillful gamer.
AquaWateria
Member
The biggest takeaway from this is how fucking predictable all this was lol.
And you think World War II was a good example of something good that had something bad in it?
Good. I find him to be in poor taste.
primasaurus
Member
Then dont complain when you get burnt
"A good reviewer is someone whose opinion you can respect even when you disagree with them."
This is actually a really good definition. Now on to decide if I can respect Jim's opinion here. He presents his arguments well. But the weapon durability is such a non-issue to me that I find it hard not to dismiss any criticsms about it as nitpicking.
Your weapon is about to break? Tough luck. Throw it at an enemy for extra damage. You find a cool weapon but don't have room for it? Select the weakest weapon and throw it away (you don't even have to enter the menu to do this). Your weapon is about to break and you don't have any more weapons? Well come on, that never once happened to me...
This is actually a really good definition. Now on to decide if I can respect Jim's opinion here. He presents his arguments well. But the weapon durability is such a non-issue to me that I find it hard not to dismiss any criticsms about it as nitpicking.
Your weapon is about to break? Tough luck. Throw it at an enemy for extra damage. You find a cool weapon but don't have room for it? Select the weakest weapon and throw it away (you don't even have to enter the menu to do this). Your weapon is about to break and you don't have any more weapons? Well come on, that never once happened to me...
Hierophant
Banned
people are still trying to divine meaning from numbers that don't mean anything other than being a flawed representation of someone's opinion
i took a shit last night it was 8/10
Deckard Chapel
Banned
This:
George Santayana said:
It's not the score he gave it - it's everything that led up to and the aftermath via his video response of the review. It was completely unprofessional from start to finish and that's pre & post review.
FallingSputnik
Member
I agree that the weapon durability feature is pretty annoying at the start of the game, but weapons become way more durable as you progress further. Furthermore, if you use your bow and the slate's powers, weapon durability shouldn't be an issue at all. Eventually you're able to expand your inventory and don't know what to do with allof the powerful weapons you have.
Yup can't disagree. Also maybe it's just me but I find reviews that agree with me for the most part less intellectually stimulating. I usually read reviews after I play a game (usually), and I find I have a good grasp of the reasons I liked it or not. I want someone who can delve into why it worked (or didnt) for them - especially if I disagree - so I can gain better insight into the areas the titles effectiveness diverged from each other.
Dude there's no conspiracy. Jim thinks the game has problematic weapon durability and stamina system, and he laid out in considerable detail why. Any review, no matter how expansively detailed, would have gained outrage from the Nintendo fanatics too invested in keeping a game at some arbitrary metacritic score. It's not about the critique, which he did a fine job laying out and nobody has done any job here disputing that. They simply came to different yet equally valid conclusions about the systems worth.
It really is a lot to do with this stupid symbolism over the game getting a 98 metacritic or him being an outlier. Like dude, that's the laziest way to critique something. For all your complaints, you have yet to delve into why his critique was wrong or some conspiracy to grab attention. You just didn't like the conclusion.
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