Support NeoGAF

[guek]

That $199 to $250 would still be making a profit, and is more representative an appropriate price point. It's an early adopter tax. Do you thinking Nvidia was selling tablets at a loss?

If they keep moving them at $299 they will keep the price there, but given they basically refused to drop Wii U price despite it being a sales disaster it's hard to say.

Wii U couldn't drop in price despite struggling because its hardware was ancient and manufacturing costs had already stagnated.

The dock and usb-c adapter along with the controllers aren't free. The dock being $90 is actually not as absurd as it looks on paper. USB-C is NOT cheap right now.

 

[ZOONAMI]

It's disingenuous to call the joycons a rumble function

They have hd rumble, ir scanner, and accelorameters , let's say that adds 50

Then throw in the dock, add another 50

So that 200 going to 300 makes perfect sense.

I bet the margins on both of those items at $50 each are insane.

 

[jdstorm]

There is no better "cutting edge" option for this product spec. I really don't know what people expected them to use without sacrificing the entire concept.

Pascal, 6 A72sor A73s, plus a couple of A35s a GPU with 3SMs of Cuda Cores, Shit Battery life and a 540p or 768p Gsync Screen. That was the dream.

Edit: oh and not wasting everyones time with joycons that are an underdone concept.

 

[Dekuboy]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MYV94H3/?tag=neogaf0e-20

looks like the same? You just get HD rumble, infra red camera and Nintendo games for it.

 

[EDarkness]

When people say they are disappointed, like others have noted already, they are not taking into consideration other options available. They just think, "oh it's based on a 2 year old tech" and don't consider other alternatives out there.

I'm not gonna lie, I'm a little disappointed. Only because they went with a stock X1 and didn't do any customizing. At least that's something to talk about, but what we have here is (and has been) a known quantity for a long time. Where's the fun in that? Boggles my mind to think they've been calling this a custom X1, when it's just a standard X1. Yeah, it's a little disappointing.

 

[ethomaz]

And again, the Tegra X2 simply isn't much better at the clock speeds Nintendo needs to run it at to keep it from throttling horribly in a portable form-factor.

Where you get that? X2 could run:

- 500Mhz undocked
- 1.2Ghz docked

With the same power envelop of X1.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Sure, a low quality 720p screen.

Well, i asked in hopes that the thing might have some actually interesting features that might justify the price for me but the only thing i can think of is that Nintendo thinks it's Apple.

Nintendo's pedigree of software seems like it's plenty of justification to me; that's it's primary feature...that it plays really stellar games.

You're paying for this thing to play games, not how many teraflerps and gigawhats it can do. What other features you could you possibly be looking for?

 

[PikkonX]

A lack of customizations as was stated is strange. But to the people saying that it's disappointing that it's an X1: what mobile chip should they have gone with?

Any other mobile chip out there still doesn't have the GPU performance of an X1 (sans maybe Apple chips, but that ain't happening). Tegra X2 simply wasn't ready.

I suppose they could have waited until fall and gone with Tegra X2, but then they would have to compete against the hype for Scorpio, and other holiday games.

This was simply their best option.

Precisely. Apple's obviously out of the question. AMD has nothing similar. The wait for X2 and what it offers wouldn't outweigh the benefit of being able to launch in March and go into the holiday with a 4 million+ install base (likely way more). So what exact chip did people expect Nintendo to use and still maintain their vision for the Switch?

 

[Proc]

I'm fine with this. This should make the tablet reliable since it's proven technology. I think that this should also mean that Nintendo can be very iterative with this product as the years go on.

I'm wondering if there will be a way to "flash" a shield with Nintendo Switch OS.

 

[phanphare]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MYV94H3/?tag=neogaf0e-20

looks like the same? You just get HD rumble, infra red camera and Nintendo games for it.

looks pretty different but maybe my eye sight is going bad

 

[LordOcidax]

It's disingenuous to call the joycons a rumble function

They have hd rumble, ir scanner, and accelorameters , let's say that adds 50

Then throw in the dock, add another 50

So that 200 going to 300 makes perfect sense.

+ the LCD screen. The TX1 shield is not a table.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Anotations on TX1 from Thraktor in the other thread

 

[Rodin]

Where you get that? X2 could run:

- 500Mhz undocked
- 1.2Mhz docked

With the same power envelop of X1.

Well we dodged a bullet there

But seriously, the TX2 was made available after the Switch came out. Isn't it likely that the designed was locked before Nvidia could offer that to Nintendo instead?

Especially when not even the Shield 2017 has it (even that uses the exact same hardware as Switch), and no one has access to new Nvidia hardware before... Nvidia.

 

[Oregano]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MYV94H3/?tag=neogaf0e-20

looks like the same? You just get HD rumble, infra red camera and Nintendo games for it.

and a screen and a battery and more RAM.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Sure, a low quality 720p screen.

*A high quality 720p screen.

 

[MisterR]

It has been 2 man years since the Tegra X1 released though

LOL

 

[Nabbis]

You're paying for this thing to play games, not how many teraflerps and gigawhats it can do. What other features you could you possibly be looking for?

It's a hardware thread, why are you here?

 

[guek]

Sure, a low quality 720p screen.

Well, i asked in hopes that the thing might have some actually interesting features that might justify the price for me but the only thing i can think of is that Nintendo thinks it's Apple.

You do realize screen resolution is not directly proportional to screen quality, right? No? Maybe?

 

[ckaneo]

I bet the margins on both of those items at $50 each are insane.

How? What are you comparing them too?

The dock sells for 60 and the joycons sell for 80...I doubt they get insane margins at $50.

 

[ethomaz]

Well we dodged a bullet there

But seriously, the TX2 was made available after the Switch came out. Isn't it likely that the designed was locked before Nvidia could offer that to Nintendo instead?

lol today I'm using all wrong (TF instead GF... Mhz instead Ghzh).

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

You mean $60 dock, right?

Still ridiculously overpriced for a hunk of plastic with nothing more than HDMI and USB plugs in them. Should be $10, $20 tops.

 

[notaskwid]

Switch is Piccolo fused with Kami, XB1 is Cell stage 2, PS4 is Super Vegeta, PS4 Pro is Perfect Cell and Scorpio is SSJ 2 Gohan.

 

[Affeinvasion]

Nintendo's pedigree of software seems like it's plenty of justification to me; that's it's primary feature...that it plays really stellar games.

You're paying for this thing to play games, not how many teraflerps and gigawhats it can do. What other features you could you possibly be looking for?

Would Zelda be better on a system that could output it at 1080p and a stable 30fps? Yes. I'm disappointed that Nintendo didn't bother to make the system worthy of their games.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Anotations on TX1 from Thraktor in the other thread

Is it just me or is that a different image than the other TX1 one you linked? I mean, the CPU is in a completely different place here for starters.

EDIT: Oh it's turned 90 degrees from the other one. And 90 degrees from the Switch one.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Where you get that? X2 could run:

- 500Mhz undocked
- 1.2Ghz docked

With the same power envelop of X1.

They aren't even using the X2 in their newest Shield device, that says something to me about it not being quite ready for mobile use.

 

[ZOONAMI]

How? What are you comparing them too?

The dock sells for 60 and the joycons sell for 80...

I don't have actual evidence but i doubt the bom on either peice is even close to half of the retail cost.

If valve can sell the steam controller for $50 I fail to see how Hd rumble minus touch pads adds another $30 in bom.

And my dock came bent and is clearly some of the cheapest plastic I've ever seen. Same goes for the kickstand and game slot. The fact the main plastic can't handle adhesive from a skin tells you it's pretty shitty all around plastic quality wise.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

It's a hardware thread, why are you here?

But the express purpose of this hardware is to play games. It's not meant for rendering video, running Photoshop, playing back logic pro tracks or anything else.

If you're looking for a product to play really excellent games at home and on the go, this is your best bet in that market. What other features could it feasibly have that it's missing?

 

[Peltz]

Sure, a low quality 720p screen.

Well, i asked in hopes that the thing might have some actually interesting features that might justify the price for me but the only thing i can think of is that Nintendo thinks it's Apple.

It may not be high res, but it's definitely not low quality. The screen has nice contrast and color.

 

[ethomaz]

Is it just me or is that a different image than the other TX1 one you linked? I mean, the CPU is in a completely different place here for starters.

The memory interface need to be faced to UP to match the OP picture.

 

[senj]

Where you get that? X2 could run:

- 500Mhz undocked
- 1.2Mhz docked

With the same power envelop of X1.

Which is, what, about a 20% difference in performance? That's a fairly marginal improvement the much higher price of the X2 at the moment

 

[Josh7289]

Sure, a low quality 720p screen.

Well, i asked in hopes that the thing might have some actually interesting features that might justify the price for me but the only thing i can think of is that Nintendo thinks it's Apple.

Whoa whoa whoa. Did you just call the Switch screen low-quality? Have you ever even seen one?

 

[jdstorm]

I suppose the Hardware Revision once Nintendo sell through all this initial stock that netted them the sweet Nvidia deal might be my jumping in point.

 

[Skittzo0413]

The memory interface need to be faced to UP to match the OP picture.

Ah I see it's rotated 90 degrees from the other TX1 photo in this thread. Nevermind then!

 

[The_Lump]

Pascal, 6 A72sor A73s, plus a couple of A35s a GPU with 3SMs of Cuda Cores, Shit Battery life and a 540p or 768p Gsync Screen. That was the dream.

Edit: oh and not wasting everyones time with joycons that are an underdone concept.

That was really the dream right up until this die photo? Like this confirmation from Chipworks is what killed that dream??

Even ignoring the faux shock/concern here, your proposed best case scenario would cost quite a bit more than the already fairly high starting price for switch.

 

[calc84maniac]

Still ridiculously overpriced for what's a hunk of plastic with nothing more than HDMI and USB plugs in them. Should be $10, $20 tops.

It does conversion between DisplayPort and HDMI signals, if nothing else. It also generally acts as a USB hub.

 

[ethomaz]

Which is, what, about a 20% difference in performance? That's a fairly marginal improvement the much higher price of the X2 at the moment

That is more than they need to not have Zelda dropping resolution and framerate plus double RAM bandwidth (58.4GB/s).

 

[plagiarize]

It's disingenuous to call the joycons a rumble function

They have hd rumble, ir scanner, and accelorameters , let's say that adds 50

Then throw in the dock, add another 50

So that 200 going to 300 makes perfect sense.

As I already said, I think the screen and the battery make up more of the difference.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Is it just me or is that a different image than the other TX1 one you linked? I mean, the CPU is in a completely different place here for starters.

I rotated the image in another post to match Nvidias graphic better, Thraktor used one or the other and I must have quoted the other in this thread.


Speaking of, rotating the Switch now to match the TX1

If that ain't damn near identical...

 

[Panajev2001a]

So it has 4 A53's? What are they used for?

big.LITTLE workload sharing?

https://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/biglittleprocessing.php

 

[Peltz]

Sure, a low quality 720p screen.

Well, i asked in hopes that the thing might have some actually interesting features that might justify the price for me but the only thing i can think of is that Nintendo thinks it's Apple.

Switch's screen may be low res, but it's not low quality. It has nice contrast and the colors pop. It's really great.

Would Zelda be better on a system that could output it at 1080p and a stable 30fps? Yes. I'm disappointed that Nintendo didn't bother to make the system worthy of their games.

I don't know... I feel like it looks nice enough at 900p on my HDTV.

 

[Vampirolol]

Oh man! I thought it was polaris!

 

[kIdMuScLe]

Still ridiculously overpriced for a hunk of plastic with nothing more than HDMI and USB plugs in them. Should be $10, $20 tops.

Can you provide something that could also charge the system while docked? Cuz the $20 ones sure as heck can't

 

[ZOONAMI]

Whoa whoa whoa. Did you just call the Switch screen low-quality? Have you ever even seen one?

It's low quality quality in the sense it's lower resolution and isn't glass compared to tablets that are cheaper. I get that 720p is kind of a sweet spot but it isn't as if scaling doesn't exists, not to mention 720p is a cheaper part than 1080p or higher.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Would Zelda be better on a system that could output it at 1080p and a stable 30fps? Yes. I'm disappointed that Nintendo didn't bother to make the system worthy of their games.

Would Zelda be better on a system that could output it at 1080p and 30fps? No, probably not, it's already a damn fine title.

Considering the size, weight, and the requirement of running off a battery, I think it's damn impressive that the Switch runs BotW as well as it does, especially considering it was a fairly quick port of a game that was built for a completely different architecture.

I think Zelda is a really bad game to look at if you want an idea of what the Switch hardware is capable of. Once Nintendo starts releasing software that was developed from the ground-up with the Switch hardware in mind I think most customers will be more than pleased with what its capable of.

 

[RootCause]

Wii U couldn't drop in price despite struggling because its hardware was ancient and manufacturing costs had already stagnated.

The dock and usb-c adapter along with the controllers aren't free. The dock being $90 is actually not as absurd as it looks on paper. USB-C is NOT cheap right now.

I had no idea it was expensive, until I started looking for one a while back.

 

[senj]

That is more than they need to not have Zelda dropping resolution and framerate plus double RAM bandwidth (58.4GB/s).

A $599 Switch probably would've sold just a bit worse.

 

[ArchedThunder]

That is more than they need to not have Zelda dropping resolution and framerate plus double RAM bandwidth (58.4GB/s).

Or you know, some more optimization time could be enough to stabilize Zelda's performance, but no let's make definitive statements about a system's capabilities based on a launch port!

 

[dacalo]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm a little disappointed. Only because they went with a stock X1 and didn't do any customizing. At least that's something to talk about, but what we have here is (and has been) a known quantity for a long time. Where's the fun in that? Boggles my mind to think they've been calling this a custom X1, when it's just a standard X1. Yeah, it's a little disappointing.

I hear you. I bought a Shield back in November 2015 that used Tegra X1. It's not apples to apples comparison but the fact that I had access to this tech almost two years ago in this day and age isn't very sexy in technology realm.

 

[heringer]

Would Zelda be better on a system that could output it at 1080p and 30fps? No, probably not, it's already a damn fine title.

Considering the size, weight, and the requirement of running off a battery, I think it's damn impressive that the Switch runs BotW as well as it does, especially considering it was a fairly quick port of a game that was built for a completely different architecture.

I think Zelda is a really bad game to look at if you want an idea of what the Switch hardware is capable of. Once Nintendo starts releasing software that was developed from the ground-up with the Switch hardware in mind I think most customers will be more than pleased with what its capable of.

You can't be serious. Of course it's an amazing title, it doesn't mean it can't be even better, c'mon.

Wether it would be worth it or not in terms of costs is another story.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Can you provide something that could also charge the system while docked? Cuz the $20 ones sure as heck can't

My LG quick charger that came with an old phone charges it just fine while gaming not on the dock, but yeah there aren't really even any 5amp USB c chargers on the market other than nintendos.