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PoliGAF 2017 |OT2| Well, maybe McMaster isn't a traitor.

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A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Plinko said:
Why do people keep bringing up Hillary and the primary when discussing Biden's chances in 2020?

"He would have lost to Hillary" means nothing.
Click to expand...

The idea that a politician that checks Clinton's positives won't run is definitely not true. Hillary herself won't run, but another candidate who will grab her following will. It's not really "he would've lost to Hillary;" it's "he would've/will lose to whoever captures her base" and Biden doesn't really do that at all.

Also these primaries will be repeats, they usually are. There will be a "Sanders" and a "Hillary" and probably a bridge candidate, and then some fluff candidates.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Valhelm said:
Interesting takes from a Fox poll on favorability.

Americans love Bernie and Planned Parenthood, like Obamacare, but hate Warren more than Trump.

I'm really surprised by the gap between Bernie and Warren. Is it all sexism, or does it have something to do with Bernie's larger spotlight?
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Sexism+Warren has a terrible relationship with the media so the media runs a lot of negative stories about her.

Warren has the Hillary flaw of feuding with the people who should be promoting her (the media).
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Valhelm said:
Interesting takes from a Fox poll on favorability.

Americans love Bernie and Planned Parenthood, like Obamacare, but hate Warren more than Trump.

I'm really surprised by the gap between Bernie and Warren. Is it all sexism, or does it have something to do with Bernie's larger spotlight?
Click to expand...

Sexism absolutely plays a role, but on the other side, she may just be the only democratic candidate more unrelatable than Hillary.

AntraxSuicide said:
The idea that a politician that checks Clinton's positives won't run is definitely not true. Hillary herself won't run, but another candidate who will grab her following will. It's not really "he would've lost to Hillary;" it's "he would've/will lose to whoever captures her base" and Biden doesn't really do that at all.

Also these primaries will be repeats, they usually are. There will be a "Sanders" and a "Hillary" and probably a bridge candidate, and then some fluff candidates.
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with another candidate like that running and everything to do with Hillary was a candidate who had a lifetime in politics and was being groomed for the presidency for years. Nobody exists out there like that on the democratic side other than Hillary.
 
K

kirblar

Member
V

Valhelm

contribute something
The Technomancer said:
I haven't listened beyond some of their late stuff last year so I'm more speaking about stuff I'm seeing from people I follow and its correlation with what appears to be Chapo listenership, but there are two things in particular that have been bothering me:
-An attitude that treats those who aren't in total alignment as actors in bad faith specifically. Not just that other people are wrong, but that they're willfully not right

-A cathartic approach to political commentary dressed up as "being genuine" (see the good faith point above) that I'm not actually convinced of the utility of. Which is fine, entertainment doesn't need utility, but a lot of people think that this mode of expression is a utility the left can use for political gain

This piece crossed my feed last night:
http://reallifemag.com/the-laugherators/
And while I'm trying to keep my opinions here separate from the contents there, because it requires a much more in depth knowledge of their actual day in, day out content, it is an interesting critique.
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Chapo is good. It's fine if you disagree with their positions, but they serve as a necessary counterweight to straight-laced wonks like Chuck Schumer or Neera Tanden and delve into topics that mainstream outlets aren't very interested in. Be it American slavery, imperialist abuse of human rights advocacy, or the activities of Kurdish socialists in Syria. Chapo provides an entertaining and informative far-left attitude that you can't get anywhere else. Their specific mix of comedy and commentary is pretty unusual and a really welcome departure from the tone and content of mainstream sources. Besides, there's nothing wrong with using irony or humor to build support for a political cause. It's a great way to make a candidate seem cool and build authentic youth interest in politics.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
not here to defend chapo a whole lot but it's sometimes cathartic to listen to and is definitely very different than other political podcasts that try to be professional all the time

at first i didn't much like it but eventually came to like it because they'll just let loose when something pisses them off. that's the show at its best

but yeah definitely not for everybody and i don't like every episode

i recently discovered the dig and it's pretty good too
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Valhelm said:
Chapo is good. It's fine if you disagree with their positions, but they serve as a necessary counterweight to straight-laced wonks like Chuck Schumer or Neera Tanden and delve into topics that mainstream outlets aren't very interested in.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's very important for people who want to support economic justice but think rape jokes are funny to have a podcast to go to
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
pigeon said:
Yeah it's very important for people who want to support economic justice but think rape jokes are funny to have a podcast to go to
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Have you listened to Chapo? They certainly aren't bigots. One of the largest crusades of host Amber A'Lee Frost is calling out Hillary Clinton and other centrist liberals on their insufficiently inclusive feminism.

That rapn jokes jab is unfounded. Nick Mullen is a shithead who makes shitty jokes, but his only connection to Chapo is that he's Amber's roommate. The Chapo crew have never done anything to normalize sexual violence or minimize the suffering of victims.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Macho Madness said:
not here to defend chapo a whole lot but it's sometimes cathartic to listen to and is definitely very different than other political podcasts that try to be professional all the time

at first i didn't much like it but eventually came to like it because they'll just let loose when something pisses them off. that's the show at its best

but yeah definitely not for everybody and i don't like every episode

i recently discovered the dig and it's pretty good too
Click to expand...

I much prefer Dig to Chapo. Not really a fan of the dirtbag left.

Valhelm said:
Have you listened to Chapo? They certainly aren't bigots. One of the largest crusades of host Amber A'Lee Frost is calling out Hillary Clinton and other centrist liberals on their insufficiently inclusive feminism.

That rapn jokes jab is unfounded. Nick Mullen is a shithead who makes shitty jokes, but his only connection to Chapo is that he's Amber's roommate. The Chapo crew have never done anything to normalize sexual violence or minimize the suffering of victims.
Click to expand...

That was a wanting article in 2015, and it's even worse in retrospect.
 
L

Ludovico

Member
Spicer's running pretty late today, most likely due to the Senate Intel Committees announcement.

Anyone else tuning in for the press briefing?



edit - aaannnddd 2 minute warning just went out. Over an hour delayed.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Hindl said:
There's some sexism, but Warren is very wonkish and hard to relate to the average joe. Like, she is literally an ivory tower law professor
Click to expand...

I suspect nobody even knows that.
She was triggering Trump before it was fashionable.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
What are the chances that the 2020 candidate isn't yet in the public eye?

Really hoping I don't have to pick between Cory Booker and Tulsi Gabbard.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
I think a lot of prejudgment on potential candidates for 2020. Basically every candidate has been shot down as flawed. Bernie is too left. Oprah did x,y,z I don't like. Hillary can't run, no way, no no no. Biden is too old. Etc..

No candidate is gonna be perfect. Which is why you want all the good candidates to run. Let them argue their own merits and faults. No need to put a lot of weight on it all now.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Valhelm said:
What are the chances that the 2020 candidate isn't yet in the public eye?

Really hoping I don't have to pick between Cory Booker and Tulsi Gabbard.
Click to expand...
Very good. We're paying attention to people like Harris and Gillibrand. The mainstream media isn't.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I not sure Frost is a feminist when this is her (and Felix's) roommate and friend.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nickmullen/status/731895419802914816
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Well, also.

"We're confusing manners with the patriarchal institutions that affect women in a material way - and I'm far more concerned with issues of poverty, of housing, of a clean environment, of healthcare, than I am about interpersonal sexist transgressions, which I think have far less of an effect on women who have money and careers and economic security."
Click to expand...

I think this is wrong! Why not both!
 
J

jtb

Banned
Warren's race in 2012 was the most expensive Senate race that cycle. She's also been a very public, visible figure on the left. She's been exposed to scrutiny in a way Bernie simply hasn't yet.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
whyamihere said:
Well, also.



I think this is wrong! Why not both!
Click to expand...

It's really weird to me that the people who say there's no necessary dichotomy between economic and social justice are so closely linked to the people who argue that there IS such a dichotomy and economic justice should win
 
T

tbm24

Member
This school choice bullshit really makes me want to throw a chair. Give money so people can go to private schools as a solution to rotting schools. Instead of you know, investing in those schools.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I not sure Frost is a feminist when this is her (and Felix's) roommate and friend.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nickmullen/status/731895419802914816
Click to expand...

Her job is writing articles on class and gender oppression. Living with a guy who makes shitty jokes doesn't change that.

Here's her response to the Nick Mullen debacle.

whyamihere said:
I think this is wrong! Why not both!
Click to expand...

Amber would never say that interpersonal and individual acts of bigotry don't matter. As an active feminist on Twitter, she deals with that kind of thing daily.

Her attitude is that these expressions of misogyny are paid more attention and resources than the structural problems that she believes underlies them.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
#take: If Autor is right about local economies dying after huge economic shocks (like the China shock) then the action on climate change we need to save the world will devastate tons of communities and leave them in long term poverty.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
I think we need to invest in public schools, but I don't think giving people more choice is a bad thing either. Academically I didn't thrive until college/law school. Maybe I would have done better in a non-public high school. I didn't have a choice so maybe what they are proposing is not all bad. That said, I don't think public schools should be left behind either.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
tbm24 said:
This school choice bullshit really makes me want to throw a chair. Give money so people can go to private schools as a solution to rotting schools. Instead of you know, investing in those schools.
Click to expand...

Except people are trying to fix the problem the wrong way. Throwing money at the school isn't really going to help the students. Start paying teachers more so you can actually draw in qualified candidates that are knowledgeable and feel like they are reimbursed enough to really want to help students.

For instance, I went to a STEM conference in Indiana, which implemented a new Physics endorsement for teaching. In the entirety of the state last year, ONE college student earned that endorsement--not because colleges aren't producing students with a physics background, but instead because nearly every other job related to that degree pays much, much more.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Macho Madness said:
not here to defend chapo a whole lot but it's sometimes cathartic to listen to and is definitely very different than other political podcasts that try to be professional all the time

at first i didn't much like it but eventually came to like it because they'll just let loose when something pisses them off. that's the show at its best

but yeah definitely not for everybody and i don't like every episode

i recently discovered the dig and it's pretty good too
Click to expand...

whyamihere said:
I much prefer Dig to Chapo. Not really a fan of the dirtbag left.



That was a wanting article in 2015, and it's even worse in retrospect.
Click to expand...
hmm looking for this and most recent episode I can find is from August last year, is it over?
 
H

Hindl

Member
Suikoguy said:
I suspect nobody even knows that.
She was triggering Trump before it was fashionable.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah I know no one really knows, but it's the vibe she gives off. East coast elitist liberal out of touch with the working man. It's just a a coincidence that she literally is a Harvard law professor too
 
C

CrimzonSamurai

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
#take: If Autor is right about local economies dying after huge economic shocks (like the China shock) then the action on climate change we need to save the world will devastate tons of communities and leave them in long term poverty.
Click to expand...

Haha that was my exact argument against doing anything to address climate change when I was a conservative in high school. Now I think it's pretty obvious that is just a question between which mechanism you'd rather have kill people. You still have to keep in mind that only one of those causes has the potential to kill *all* people.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
pigeon said:
"If you knew them you'd know they're not really bigots."

You're right, Chapo is the perfect podcast for the Age of Trump
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The Chapo crew aren't remotely bigoted. I think you're being disingenuous here, grasping at straws to write off a left-of-center voice.
 
T

tbm24

Member
Valhelm said:
Her job is writing articles on class and gender oppression. Living with a guy who makes shitty jokes doesn't change that.

Here's her response to the Nick Mullen debacle.



Amber would never say that interpersonal and individual acts of bigotry don't matter. As an active feminist on Twitter, she deals with that kind of thing daily.

Her attitude is that these expressions of misogyny are paid more attention and resources than the structural problems that she believes underlies them.
Click to expand...
That response sounds like a whole lot of explaining away mean spirited jokes under the guise of pushing a boundary. Especially in reference to that tweet posted earlier which to me is disgusting.
 
H

Holmes

Member
Hillary used McDonald's to win the Massachusetts primary and now they're attacking Trump... a true red blooded progressive American corporarion.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
pigeon said:
Why would I want to write off a left-of-center voice when I am a socialist
Click to expand...

Are you, though? Half your post history is defending status-quo Democrats from left-wing criticism and clinging to a failing establishment in the name of pragmatism.
 
T

tbm24

Member
Plinko said:
Except people are trying to fix the problem the wrong way. Throwing money at the school isn't really going to help the students. Start paying teachers more so you can actually draw in qualified candidates that are knowledgeable and feel like they are reimbursed enough to really want to help students.

For instance, I went to a STEM conference in Indiana, which implemented a new Physics endorsement for teaching. In the entirety of the state last year, ONE college student earned that endorsement--not because colleges aren't producing students with a physics background, but instead because nearly every other job related to that degree pays much, much more.
Click to expand...
When I refer to investing in schools I would hope that would extending to allowing better pay for Teachers. My wife is gearing up to enter the educator field and well, it's not very reassuring as of late, and this just makes it worse to me.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Valhelm said:
Her job is writing articles on class and gender oppression. Living with a guy who makes shitty jokes doesn't change that.

Here's her response to the Nick Mullen debacle.
Click to expand...

This is

uhm

not at all a good answer, to me. "This humor that seems offensive is really just ironic" is a huge red flag
Do you get bothered by the cum boys' content at times? I love the podcast but sometimes their ironic/maybe not ironic use of slurs and Nick's ironic/maybe not ironic misogyny can be pretty hard to stomach. Tough to imagine waking up to that in my living room, you know?
I'm glad you asked this because it's a complicated question, so I apologize in advance for the long, joke-murdering answer.


I wouldn't say it "bothers" me, but I understand that's mostly because I know them all, and I know they're being "ironic," for lack of a better word (though "childishly iconoclastic" might be more accurate). I know their politics and general benevolence toward all people. I know they're not bigots. I realize the purposeful moral evasiveness of the show can hamstring the laughs for other listeners, and that's totally fair; it honestly might for me too if I didn't know them. I thought Nick might be a vicious psycho before I met him.


But if you want to understand the project, it's important to remember that their entire goal is to be funny, and for Nick in particular that means this ambiguity and discomfort and pushing boundaries. He's one of the few pure aesthetes of comedy--he thinks if it's funny, then it's worth telling the joke. The moral or ethical content of that joke is irrelevant to him because he conceives of comedians as performers rather than oraters or whatever it is that people projected onto Jon Stewart. A total lack of moral responsibility for your art is not an idea I subscribe to, but ideologically I'm far closer to Nick Mullen than I am to the po-faced, "Is Amy Schumer problematic" scolds. Moreover, he's my friend and I respect him artistically, even when we disagree. This does not mean I'm not grossed out every once in a while when listening to Cum Town (though I'm not a subscriber, and I don't actually listen to every episode).
Click to expand...
 
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