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Playtonic removes JonTron from Yooka-Laylee.
- Thread starter BY2K
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It's the result of the idea that freedom of speech offers the perfect opportunity(and protection) for people in a "civilized" nation to express - deeply rooted, hateful and/or divisive - thoughts that are contrary to civility.
Revelmode?
I had quite a few people tweeting at me, this individual didn't particularly stand out from the white noise, so I didn't notice it. Given what happened to The Escapist, what you've described wouldn't be particularly out of character for their staff.
No idea why anyone would blame me for this outcome rather than JonTron.
White supremacy isn't a political view.
Racists everwhere thinking freeze peach affords them the protection to spout their racist drivel online and still keep their job. I want to see every one of them financially ruined.
This is so obviously false that I'm not sure what to say in response. Like, the "supremacy" part is literally about emphasizing that it's political.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
A "Premium Content Network" owned by Pewdiepie working under Maker. Guys like Jakesepticeye are in it, and PDP himself of course.
edit: After a bit of googling it indeed seems like revelmode is shut down, it's just the pages on the Maker site that still exist. Forget what I've said in this case.
Lightning_Roller
Banned
This. Im tired of people saying that an ideal that involves prejudice, prosecution and the thought of full on genocide of minorities is a "political opinion"!! Because news flash, it most certainly isnt an opinion!!
Would you defend work place discrimination, gender or ethnic wage discrepancies as political views?
Isaac Otherworld
Member
Did my post claim another victim?
People seemed to get the joke at first, but as the pages went on more people thought I was being serious.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
The way he walks in his into made me exit. Jontron isn't my kind of guy at all.
People that hate others need no platform.
People that hate others need no platform.
That seems to describe the current views the current GOP seems to want to keep/encorce actually.
He's just saying it's a political view.
A political view fueled by racism and a godawful one, but still a political view.
A view is something like an attitude, a belief, an opinion, etc. I didn't think that was controversial.
The act of discriminating against someone is of course not a view. The belief or attitude or opinion or judgment that such discrimination is appropriate or acceptable or permissible is obviously a view. And such a view is obviously political - it pertains to politics and law and society and so on.
I mean, if you want to argue that there are exceptions to the general rules about the respect owed political views because some political views are just too hateful, that's fine - I'd agree with you! - but let's not play weird word games where we try to say that they're not actually political views. That just makes us look silly.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
The fastest rebuttal is probably something like "By your logic, I'm also obligated to get a voice acting role in the game regardless of whether Playtonic wants it or not. Are you going to protest on the internet to get me into this game for the sake of my free speech?"
Someone less tired could probably take that point and phrase it in a way that gives it more oomph.
17 Seconds
Banned
schmoyoho just had a video come out with boogie 
hopefully they don't have jontron back, they are better than that
hopefully they don't have jontron back, they are better than that
I'm a consultant in software development. You bet your ass I'd risk being fired if somehow everyone knew I had made extremely racist remarks somehow. When you're an asset outwards for your firm, and your firm relies on you to make money for them, then saying stupid things can most certainly get you into trouble. If you're an asset for a firm by you doing operations for them, and you can continue doing your job without you being a public face for a company, then you might not be fired for it.
So, when you are the literal voice of a product, then it should be absolutely understandable that a firm might choose not to have you represent them. It's not really a "personal opinion". It's a public opinion one person has. If you're an entertainment person, you can think all you want about whoever you want. The moment you decide to publish those opinions to the world, and the world doesn't like what you have to say, you can't claim you should be shielded from it because "it's just my opinion".
I am getting a headache for people defending this. Again this is not free speech, this is hate speech. I am against all of this,you're bigotry,your racism, i do not contempt it all. Your views are full of hate. Hate against race,religion,gender and everything that makes us these populist views are growing towards nazi stuff that scares the shitting live out of me.
How can you not think straight for a moment and think why is he even doing this? Why is he even telling his fans that like i said is normal, because it isn't. Distorting the view of everyone and make them believe it is normal.
And i post this news piece from eurogamer on my facebook, one dumbass what is your opinion on this he asked? About a youtube comment? Clearly he did not read it or followed it at all. It makes me mad that are OK with racism and being a bigot just to normalize it.
How can you not think straight for a moment and think why is he even doing this? Why is he even telling his fans that like i said is normal, because it isn't. Distorting the view of everyone and make them believe it is normal.
And i post this news piece from eurogamer on my facebook, one dumbass what is your opinion on this he asked? About a youtube comment? Clearly he did not read it or followed it at all. It makes me mad that are OK with racism and being a bigot just to normalize it.
I think we should just start making XKCD free speech comic variants like with Loss comics. Not to inject humour in or anything, just to keep it from getting visually stale.
Rascism, white supremacy, is based on epistomlogialy false belief or opinions though. Which is the key issue here as racists/alt righters are involved in a project make their white supremacy belief/ opinions "justified" and an acceptable world view.
I think people are misunderstanding racist opinions are justified in our current epistemology by mearly labelling them as political views, they're not as there is no scientific basis for their opinions/beliefs.
White supremacy is a opinion, an un justified one.
TetraGenesis
Member
schmoyoho just had a video come out with boogie
hopefully they don't have jontron back, they are better than that
I can't imagine that the Gregory Brothers would condone those viewpoints and actions, but I don't see them coming out against it in a video or anything. Maybe on twitter or something.
But yeah, I doubt they'd do a future video with JonTron.
Stances can be both political views and also unacceptable. I don't understand what you're trying to do here? Not all political views are acceptable. For me, at least.
I refuse to normalize this any further than being an ideology, this view is not okay to normalize as a political stance/opinion. This isn't trickle down economics.
InterMusketeer
Gold Member
Can you even choose to hold any specific opinion? I think opinions come naturally. You look at the facts, arguments from both sides and your feelings, and base your opinion on that. You can't just 'choose' to have an opinion. There's probably understandable reasons for why JonTron holds some of his opinions. Sure, the end result we don't agree with, but at the heart of it probably lies fear. Fear that I can try to understand. Acting like his fears are ridiculous and he's a shithead for having them, is wrong IMO.
Also not really sure I agree with your freedom of consequence bit. That just sounds wrong to me. Shouldn't you have freedom of consequence for expressing your views, or at the very least limits to what those consequences can be? Otherwise you could have someone subjected to violence simply for having the 'wrong' opinion. I see people calling for financial ruination of JonTron and/or others. To me that's going too far. Actively trying to throw someone into a life of poverty because he said some very questionable things in a stream one time.
I'm not sure this whole shaming thing works anyway. We've seen what happens when you try to silence bigoted voices. Those people will not change their mind. Their hate will only grow, and fester because they feel they can't express their opinions, and then those people vote for someone like Trump. That worked out great, huh?
Also, I understand the hate towards Boogie, he is a hypocrite, but is it really going to help to just shove him in the corner with actual alt-right racists? You're just creating a bigger group of enemies to fight.
I don't know how we should deal with stuff like this, but I don't think a lot of the attitudes here are helping.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Opinions that promote bigotry, hatred, and ethnic supremacy support and strengthen those beliefs. Those beliefs power movements. Those movements change society and hurt real people. When an opinion strengthens a harmful and destructive movement, it's something that has to be taken more seriously.
There seems to be a common and naive belief about what opinions represent. The idea that "even if I think it's awful, it's just an opinion, and opinions are sacred. If they weren't, we wouldn't be free!" But "freedom" cannot be a suicide pact. Someone can justify murder by saying it was their sincere "opinion" that a person had to die.
In fact people can use this naive attitude to justify promoting harmful ideologies themselves. One can buy into a racist movement and extol its virtues, then say "It's just my opinion, other people choose to be offended by it, so it's their fault!" That's really common in my experience, and a favorite defense from people who promote awful, harmful beliefs and ideologies.
There seems to be a common and naive belief about what opinions represent. The idea that "even if I think it's awful, it's just an opinion, and opinions are sacred. If they weren't, we wouldn't be free!" But "freedom" cannot be a suicide pact. Someone can justify murder by saying it was their sincere "opinion" that a person had to die.
In fact people can use this naive attitude to justify promoting harmful ideologies themselves. One can buy into a racist movement and extol its virtues, then say "It's just my opinion, other people choose to be offended by it, so it's their fault!" That's really common in my experience, and a favorite defense from people who promote awful, harmful beliefs and ideologies.
White supremacy isn't a political view. It's a pseudo-scientific view.
It claims to be as soöid as "men have genetically based higher strength than women". In that case, the genes that make you a POC supposedly make you a "worse human". More violent, less intelligent. A lower rank.
You can make white supremacy a part of your political view. But it's in itself a pseudoscientific stance.
Huh. This feels like denying that Trump is the president because you don't want to normalize him. I am not sure that this helps prevent normalization so much as it causes people to write you off as being in denial. Regardless, it strikes me as odd to pick a fight with someone who used the term "political view" in the everyday, in-touch-with-reality sense in the course of explaining why even if someone thinks that people's livelihoods should generally be safe from retaliation for political views as gross as JonTron's, that doesn't apply to the case at hand, since JonTron's whole job is to have people like him as a person.
shawnbuddy
Member
I saw someone blame Destiny for the whole thing, trying to portray Destiny as greedy for bringing that out of John in a for-profit video. When someone pointed out that there were previous tweets they literally said tweets don't count. That's the level of argument I've seen, classic GamerGate misdirection, bad faith and "nothing on the Internet matters LOL."
Messofanego
Banned
Gee he flipflops and tends to say things to please everyone. It's shocking sometimes
lmao this dude would make for a great politician
shawnbuddy
Member
schmoyoho just had a video come out with boogie
hopefully they don't have jontron back, they are better than that
Yeah, their dalliances with these guys are worrying. If they do one with Sargon or something I'm unsubscribing.
UncleSporky
Member
Don't throw the Boogie out with the bathwater. I mean, here he is a couple days ago going to bat for LGBTQ because of the Youtube restricted mode debacle. You want to lose highly visible support like that because of a tweet?
This isn't his first issue; he's also been batting for Gamergate since forever. The guy seems to think that gamers are the most persecuted minority and he's willing to screw over everyone else to protect them. Taking an optimistic view.
WorldofMiku
Banned
Why did you stop hanging out with Matt, Boogie? That was his "personal opinion". Freedom of speech right? He was just "trying on a new hat" right? Right?
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Yeah, I thought so. :/
An entire generation has been immersed in an environment where they don't have to face social consequences for what they say.
In real life stating toxic opinions gets you shunned and ostracized. Not so much online, especially within the social networks that techno-libertarians created.
This isn't Boogies first rodeo with white supremacy and the alt right.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
:lol You should probably do some research before speaking on things you know nothing about. That tweet is affecting 0 people into disliking him, he's done a lot of shit.
kamineko
Does his best thinking in the flying car
There is no ethical duty to mollycoddle the owners of hateful, oppressive views. There is no compelling reason to prioritize the comfort of racists over that of persons harmed by their speech. Unless, ethically, one chooses to privilege the welfare of racists above and over that of the oppressed.
It is a little silly to live in fear of upsetting people who, so far as I can tell, live in a perpetual state of upset.
If you think education and tolerance is the answer, go educate and tolerate Boogie (or Jon, or anyone) for a while, and let us know if he comes around.
spindashing
Banned
Gee he flipflops and tends to say things to please everyone. It's shocking sometimes
This guy... I never knew that he was this bad.
What I got out of that video is that it's reasonable that companies might not want to be associated with messages they disagree with.
rochellepaws
Member
Disappointed with boogie, sounds like he's just spouting populist drivel in the hope that everyone will find an agreeable quote from him somewhere regardless of the contradictions. If he's not going to take a strong principled stance against the level of bile that has been coming from JonTron lately I guess he never will. It seems like he's more concerned with his audience numbers and profit base than being a person with decency who speaks out against hatred.
Messofanego
Banned
That's exactly what Boogie2988 says in his Jontron defense video. He says that he relies on Youtube money for his mortgage and doesn't want to piss off anyone who could take that away. He mentions that the other people he defends are independent, they can make money off other things, but he can't so he has to tow the line.
"These are the same people who came at me 2.5 years ago. That made me step back. You know what, I don't want to die on this hill. This is not something I want to end my career over. I have a mortgage to pay. I'm not going to get other job offers like Colin. I'm not always going to be able to be independent like Jon. I won't be a multi-millionaire like Felix. And be ok. And run my own corporation. I'm just some fat shit in a corner of Arkansaw trying to pay his rent...now paying his mortgage...now trying to pay his medical bills and stay alive. Maybe there is a better way for me. Maybe I will just play with my Pokemon cards. Maybe I'll let those people be outraged at whoever else they want to be outraged with. And while I do that, I can always try to preach a sense of moderation. A sense of free thinking. A sense of figuring things out for yourself. Of being speculative and being suspicious of the things you hear and the things that you see. And to try to encourage people to stop being so far left, stop being so far right, and find the place in the middle.
People who watch this video up to this point or even cut it off 2 minutes in, are using this video as an excuse to try to do that to me. 'Oh he's defending Jon, he's defending an anti-semite, defending a sexist asshole'. And I am. I AM. Because where I don't agree with their opinions, I believe they have every right to their opinions. I believe they have every right to think for themselves and try to feel out. And the problem with the freedom of thought is, sometimes people are gonna think things you don't like. People are going to have opinions and ideas that you don't enjoy. And you have to treat that with a certain level of tolerance and understanding. Because if you approach it with tolerance and understanding, you might very well be able to convince that person otherwise. I do plan to have a conversation with Jon if you allow me to and maybe we'll talk about the stuff. Maybe I'll learn from him, and he'll learn from me, and we'll land somewhere in the middle. Wouldn't that be swell? Because the middle is a great place to be! And people say, you won't stand up for what you believe in, you won't stand up for what you care about, but you know what damnit I stand on this hill! And I'll die on this hill! THIS IS THE ONE I WILL STAND UP FOR! There's no such thing as wrong think. There is no such thing as a wrong opinion. I think it's ok to have whatever shitty opinion you have. And it's the best way to treat someone with a shitty opinion - one that might be morally and objectively wrong - is to try to talk to them, to treat them like a person, to treat them like you care about them, to treat them moderately and maybe with respect and talk to them and try to convince them. Because I'll tell you something. The studies show when you fight someone's beliefs, it only strengthens their beliefs and convictions. You can't change somebody's mind with hate. You can only change somebody's mind with love."
But this centrism creates opportunities where he comes off as a hypocrite. Examples:
Gee he flipflops and tends to say things to please everyone. It's shocking sometimes
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