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[CannonFodder52]

That was a fun ride, good outcome too.

Please continue to learn politics via neogaf, you'll turn out like a proper good sjw.

Spoiler

decent human being

 

[joe2187]

Right. I don't even proper understand Brexit then. Aren't we just leaving the EU?

Brexit is the result of others like Jon not wanting the gene pool to be polluted, and to preserve their so called sense of historical culture because of fear of immigrants and foreigners.

The result of mass media fear mongering and tabloid garbage pandering to the new "Black Boogeyman" being any and all Immigrants causing everything from them losing their jobs to fish and chips being banned somehow.

Brexit has everything to do with immigrants, it's one of the key reasons people (assholes) have voted leave.

 

[Mahonay]

That was a fun ride, good outcome too.

Please continue to learn politics via neogaf, you'll turn out like a proper good sjw.

 

[Rushersauce]

I thought I said it earlier sorry, Britain.

Are you 14-15? Just asking, that would be really helpful for me to understand your naivety

Fuck, already answered. Figures

 

[Cerium]

It all makes sense.

Let's try to inform him rather than talk down to him. Like others have pointed out, at least he's asking questions unlike many others at that age.

 

[Nanashrew]

Or how they have their own persecuted ethnic and social groups.

That second one about sanitation workers, undertakers and slaughtermen is crazy. That's like biblical times stuff. Same word usage and everything about how they are "unclean."

 

[Sai-kun]

I'm 14. Have a guess.

ur username...it all makes sense now...

 

[Weltall Zero]

I'm 14. Have a guess.

I thought you were extremely naive and indeed sheltered, but if you're really that young it all kind of figures. I don't mean this as a slight and it's laudable of you to get involved with these issues, even if you probably lack enough life experience to appreciate some of the implications.

Actually this goes on to illustrate the point of this thread pretty horrifically. You more or less excused JonTron's views at first, even being non-white and having suffered racism yourself. Now imagine the effect on white American kids already being bombarded with black people boogeyman fearmongering by Fox news and the like.

 

[Mahonay]

Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology.

 

[DerekOfTheDykes]

Hey guys, let's not start ragging on an inquisitive youngster for not having been alive as long as most of us have to observe the world around us.

Asking questions and wanting to fill in gaps in knowledge is important as hell, and I often wish more of us adults would take the time to not pretend like we know and understand everything about every subject.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

ur username...it all makes sense now...

This was almost like figuring out a Breath of the Wild shrine

 

[Mahonay]

Hey guys, let's not start ragging on an inquisitive youngster for not having been alive as long as most of us have to observe the world around us.

Asking questions and wanting to fill in gaps in knowledge is important as hell, and I often wish more of us adults would take the time to not pretend like we know and understand everything about every subject.

Now that we know he's only 14 I think everyone has changed their tone appropriately.

This was almost like figuring out a Breath of the Wild shrine

Lol

 

[Kthulhu]

I thought you were extremely naive and indeed sheltered, but if you're really that young it all kind of figures. I don't mean this as a slight and it's laudable of you to get involved with these issues, even if you probably lack enough life experience to appreciate some of the implications.

Actually this goes on to illustrate the point of this thread pretty horrifically. You more or less excused JonTron's views at first, even being non-white and having suffered racism yourself. Now imagine the effect on white American kids already being bombarded with black people boogeyman fearmongering by Fox news and the like.

That was my childhood TBH. Glad I broke out of that shitty bubble.

I'm 14. Have a guess.

I forgot GAF's minimum age was 13. Not a shot at you, just expressing my surprise.

I'd love to see a demographic breakdown of GAF.

 

[Bastables]

I'm 14. Have a guess.

If you're a half in a country historically predicated on colonialism and all the racist baggage that entails, you'll soon learn mate.

Hell the Polish are apparently just not native enough http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...iolence-intolerance-hate-speech-a7345166.html

Also stop pretending a former colonial world power (Britain) has no racist strains in it's contemporary or historical politics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_Blood_speech

Fear the darkies, fear the immigrants....

Powell recounted a conversation with one of his constituents, a middle-aged working man, a few weeks earlier. Powell said that the man told him: "If I had the money to go, I wouldn't stay in this country... I have three children, all of them been through grammar school and two of them married now, with family. I shan't be satisfied till I have seen them all settled overseas." The man finished by saying to Powell: "In this country in 15 or 20 years' time the black man will have the whip hand over the white man."[6]


Also remember Even the UK itself has been historically a host if immigrations. Think long and hard why french words like constable, and Scandinavian derived words like muck, and anger are part of contemporary flat yorkshire english.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Hey guys, let's not start ragging on an inquisitive youngster for not having been alive as long as most of us have to observe the world around us.

Actually I think most GAFers have been supportive upon learning about his age, which makes me proud of GAF in turn.

Just for context / contrast's sake, I'm turning 40 in less than two months.

 

[L Thammy]

This is why I think people shouldn't at least try to provide an answer for people who are asking questions before jumping on them. Sometimes people actually do need answers!

 

[Cerium]

I'm 14. Have a guess.

If JonTron had been talking about Filipinos instead of Mexicans and African Americans, would that have made it easier for you to understand the outrage? If he had said that Filipinos were invading white countries, that even when they assimilate they dilute the gene pool, that rich Filipinos commit more crimes than poor whites, and that discrimination against Filipinos does not exist. Does imagining that make it easier to relate to why people are upset?

 

[Mahonay]

Actually I think most GAFers have been supportive upon learning about his age, which makes me proud of GAF in turn.

Just for context / contrast's sake, I'm turning 40 in less than two months.

Your oldness makes me feel better about 31 coming up for me in two months. Thank you friend.

 

[PtM]

Black people are not immigrants. There is no room for his views to be anything but racism

That's the disparity I mentioned.

 

[BY2K]

I'm 14. Have a guess.

Legit shook.

Spoiler

Seriously.

 

[joe2187]

Now that we know he's only 14 I think everyone has changed their tone appropriately.

Lol

I remember when I was 14 I was trying to find forums of Vegans/Vegatarians to troll because....I dont even remember.

Stole pokemon cards from kids, and sold it back them weeks later.

Throwing smoke bombs in open car windows.

At least he's questioning his world instead of raging against it. It's alot healthier than what alot of other kids around his age would rather do.

 

[EatinOlives]

I'm 14. Have a guess.

Ok, I'm genuinely sorry for taking up an attitude with you :/

 

[guybrushfreeman]

That's the disparity I mentioned.

I'm just saying there's no disparity. He said things that are unquestionably racist, there's no room to try to move it back to immigration after that

 

[Cipherr]

I remember when I was 14 I was trying to find forums of Vegans/Vegatarians to troll because....I dont even remember.

Stole pokemon cards from kids, and sold it back them weeks later.

Throwing smoke bombs in open car windows.

At least he's questioning his world instead of raging against it. It's alot healthier than what alot of other kids around his age would rather do.

I think I was being all manner of an asshole on IRC channels at that age. Certainly wasn't interested in complex subjects like this one lol.

 

[CannonFodder52]

This experience just reaffirms my fear of young people learning about this stuff via /pol and other such places.

Not meant to be a slight against Tasha at all.

 

[jviggy43]

Yeah sorry I totally did not think that was the case and it makes way more sense now. I genuinely thought you were doing the soft defense through ignorance bit.

 

[Tasha2k2]

I didn't even really want to say my age because now it's just become all about that but I didn't know how else to show properly that I didn't get the connection between the two things.

ur username...it all makes sense now...

I wasn't the one who chose it. I'd have preferred something else but me not having a say in it was part of the condition for me using this site.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I didn't even really want to say my age because now it's just become all about that but I didn't know how else to show properly that I didn't get the connection between the two things.



I wasn't the one who chose it. I'd have preferred something else but me not having a say in it was part of the condition for me using this site.

I think it really was an important thing to know though... *shrugs*

You followed a pattern that is used by a lot of actual adults to minimize and deny what JonTron has done and said...

 

[themagicalkitsune]

This experience just reaffirms my fear of people growing up on /pol and other such places.

Not meant to be a slight against Tasha at all.

I'm sure there are a lot of 14-year olds (or around that age) in JonTron's fanbase, and not all of them are asking these questions that's for sure. You can see how explicit racism can be awfully pervasive at times, especially in younger minds.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

I didn't even really want to say my age because now it's just become all about that but I didn't know how else to show properly that I didn't get the connection between the two things.



I wasn't the one who chose it. I'd have preferred something else but me not having a say in it was part of the condition for me using this site.

It's okay. You're age shouldn't matter people are impressed you were able to engage the subject in a serious manner. Anyone is welcome in the thread when they are honest and taking the issue seriously which I believe you were from the beginning

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Honestly you should be proud at how critically you're thinking at age 14. I was a total clown at that age. Still am.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Honestly you should be proud at how critically you're thinking at age 14. I was a total clown at that age. Still am.

Agreed

 

[JordanN]

I forgot GAF's minimum age was 13. Not a shot at you, just expressing my surprise.

I'd love to see a demographic breakdown of GAF.

Most Gaffers are over 30 with 26-29 being second.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1208864

 

[PtM]

I'm just saying there's no disparity. He said things that are unquestionably racist, there's no room to try to move it back to immigration after that

With stuff like what Tasha quoted, about how JT would be fine if immigrants adopted "the culture", I just can't shake the feeling that that is something just slightly different.

I'm not really interested in what name to give his shitty views, I dropped these 2ct of mine because people questioned this interpretation.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

People, flag the inappropriate tags. Do something positive towards the game. Maybe even buy it if you want!

Done.

This is the logical fallacy of dumbass white supremacists like JonTron and the American white power structure. Keep all of those dirty immigrants away from me and put them in their own neighborhoods...then complain 10-20-30 years later because they haven't assymilated into "American culture".

Eeyup. I love throwing this back in people's faces when muslims or Guatemalan immigrants move next door to them, they don't get mad just real meek like they wrote on the walls with crayons.

I'm 14. Have a guess.

Get thee to the Beeb then. Regularly. You're never too young to start! You'll be voting soon.

 

[excelsiorlef]

With stuff like what Tasha quoted, about how JT would be fine if immigrants adopted "the culture", I just can't shake the feeling that that is something just slightly different.

I'm not really interested in what name to give his shitty views, I dropped these 2ct of mine because people questioned this interpretation.

He still says dilute the gene pool, he still argue black people have a crime gene...

Dude is still racist...

 

[PtM]

He still says dilute the gene pool, he still argue black people have a crime gene...

Dude is still racist...

No question about it.

 

[Tanoomba]

I mean maybe you're right about how I'm reacting to it since I like his videos, but I would like to point out nowhere does he use the word "polluting". And I was specifically looking out for the word since I saw that someone said he used it in the other thread and it really shocked me that he would say that. He does say "diluting" though, so whatever, I'm probably just making excuses.



Well I've got like 20 people disagreeing with me so clearly I've messed up somewhere. In my personal experiences with racism it's always been more obvious if that makes sense? Like as an actual example I've had people tell me to go back to China because I don't belong here. And even after going actually I'm not chinese and I was born here they were like like "So go back there then."

He seems like he's subconsciously racist or something, and I bet if you asked Jon if he had racist views that he would say he didn't because I genuinely don't think he thinks he's being racist. Which I guess is just as bad because yeah I see him saying stuff about black people committing more crimes or whatever it was that he said, but in the same breath he says that its not because of the colour of their skin, BUT then says "just look at the crime rate in africa". It's not the same thing as him kicking a dog and then going "I love dogs" because I doubt he would do anything to like on purposely inconvenience people of other races. Trying to wrap my head around it is just making it hurt.

I hear where you're coming from. I personally don't think the "racist" label is necessarily well-earned in this case, although I do understand that it's a really loaded topic people feel strongly about.

It seems to me that JonTron, within the last several years, probably found himself disagreeing with certain aspects of the social justice movement. That, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. Unfortunately, based on my observations, social justice is pretty much the one topic where there is no room for nuance or empathy. It is powerfully polarizing and most people who who pick a "side" tend to adopt an "all-or-nothing", "with us or against us" attitude. I think that this unfortunate aspect of modern discourse led JonTron to be suckered in by talking points that probably sounded a lot more reasonable when discussed by like-minded individuals who legitimately believed they were under attack and needed to defend themselves.

Unfortunately, JonTron didn't do the leg work of checking to see if these views that conformed to his perceptions held up under scrutiny. He mistakenly thought he had the moral and rational high ground and that that was all he needed to be able to "debate". It turns out that he is absolutely TERRIBLE at debating and the more he tried to defend his stance, the worse he made himself look.

Having said that, I'm not convinced the guy's actually racist or a white supremacist. I think he bit off way more than he could chew by deciding to be vocal about something he needed to shut up and think a little more about, and he's paying a heavy price for it.

I mean, it's certainly possible JonTron is racist. However, I don't think that's an obvious conclusion to draw based on what he said. Furthermore, I find the use of loaded labels to classify people as one of "them" (and therefore allow us to dismiss them entirely) one of the worst side effects of this culture war. I didn't like it when people called Anita Sarkeesian a liar, cheat and con artist, and I don't like that people are calling JonTron a white supremacist. I think it's far more productive to look at why someone holds certain views instead of looking for reasons to conclude someone is the "bad guy".

 

[Tasha2k2]

Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology.

Her but thanks I think lol

I probably just seemed like I'm racist and ignorant. I'm only the ignorant bit though.

I've really gotta go now anyway but I'm sorry for disrupting the thread.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

With stuff like what Tasha quoted, about how JT would be fine if immigrants adopted "the culture", I just can't shake the feeling that that is something just slightly different.

I'm not really interested in what name to give his shitty views, I dropped these 2ct of mine because people questioned this interpretation.

He says it actually wouldn't be fine because they will dilute the gene pool. The thing is you can't just pick certain quotes and pretend the rest weren't said. People are unhappy about the other comments, it doesn't become okay to say the terrible things just because some of the other things are less terrible. It's the terrible things they hurt and upset people, there's no pretending they weren't said or he didn't mean them

 

[antibolo]

This thread is getting so good

 

[Skyzard]

I hear where you're coming from. I personally don't think the "racist" label is necessarily well-earned in this case, although I do understand that it's a really loaded topic people feel strongly about.

It seems to me that JonTron, within the last several years, probably found himself disagreeing with certain aspects of the social justice movement. That, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. Unfortunately, based on my observations, social justice is pretty much the one topic where there is no room for nuance or empathy. It is powerfully polarizing and most people who who pick a "side" tend to adopt an "all-or-nothing", "with us or against us" attitude. I think that this unfortunate aspect of modern discourse led JonTron to be suckered in by talking points that probably sounded a lot more reasonable when discussed by like-minded individuals who legitimately believed they were under attack and needed to defend themselves.

Unfortunately, JonTron didn't do the leg work of checking to see if these views that conformed to his perceptions held up under scrutiny. He mistakenly thought he had the moral and rational high ground and that that was all he needed to be able to "debate". It turns out that he is absolutely TERRIBLE at debating and the more he tried to defend his stance, the worse he made himself look.

Having said that, I'm not convinced the guy's actually racist or a white supremacist. I think he bit off way more than he could chew by deciding to be vocal about something he needed to shut up and think a little more about, and he's paying a heavy price for it.

I mean, it's certainly possible JonTron is racist. However, I don't think that's an obvious conclusion to draw based on what he said. Furthermore, I find the use of loaded labels to classify people as one of "them" (and therefore allow us to dismiss them entirely) one of the worst side effects of this culture war. I didn't like it when people called Anita Sarkeesian a liar, cheat and con artist, and I don't like that people are calling JonTron a white supremacist. I think it's far more productive to look at why someone holds certain views instead of looking for reasons to conclude someone is the "bad guy".

Great post.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

Her but thanks I think lol

I probably just seemed like I'm racist and ignorant. I'm only the ignorant bit though.

I've really gotta go now anyway but I'm sorry for disrupting the thread.

I don't think you ever seemed racist, I don't think anyone thought that and it's not ignorant to ask questions. I don't think you disrupted the thread because the point of the thread is to discuss this exact topic which is what you were always trying to do. I often thank people in these threads for their discussion and I thank you as well

 

[Anung]

Waitaminute! Boogie is in his forties? I thought he was like mid-twenties or something.

 

[MrHoot]

This has now become like one of my telenovellas

 

[Rushersauce]

Her but thanks I think lol

I probably just seemed like I'm racist and ignorant. I'm only the ignorant bit though.

I've really gotta go now anyway but I'm sorry for disrupting the thread.

Not racist, just naive.

 

[Einchy]

Her but thanks I think lol

I probably just seemed like I'm racist and ignorant. I'm only the ignorant bit though.

I've really gotta go now anyway but I'm sorry for disrupting the thread.

Honestly, at first I thought you were just being dishonest, like you often see in these discussions, but you genuinely did not understand because of your age.

Hope you take to heart what a lot of posters said to you in this thread.

 

[SmackAttack]

Her but thanks I think lol

I probably just seemed like I'm racist and ignorant. I'm only the ignorant bit though.

I've really gotta go now anyway but I'm sorry for disrupting the thread.

Late to this and you're going now but my two cents is that you never seemed those things, only naive. Never apologize for disrupting a thread when asking questions either. The fact that you questioned why people have acted the way to what he said is a good thing. You've nothing to feel bad about here.

 

[JCH!]

Tasha2k2 is now my favourite NeoGAF member ever.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I hear where you're coming from. I personally don't think the "racist" label is necessarily well-earned in this case, although I do understand that it's a really loaded topic people feel strongly about.

It seems to me that JonTron, within the last several years, probably found himself disagreeing with certain aspects of the social justice movement. That, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. Unfortunately, based on my observations, social justice is pretty much the one topic where there is no room for nuance or empathy. It is powerfully polarizing and most people who who pick a "side" tend to adopt an "all-or-nothing", "with us or against us" attitude. I think that this unfortunate aspect of modern discourse led JonTron to be suckered in by talking points that probably sounded a lot more reasonable when discussed by like-minded individuals who legitimately believed they were under attack and needed to defend themselves.

Unfortunately, JonTron didn't do the leg work of checking to see if these views that conformed to his perceptions held up under scrutiny. He mistakenly thought he had the moral and rational high ground and that that was all he needed to be able to "debate". It turns out that he is absolutely TERRIBLE at debating and the more he tried to defend his stance, the worse he made himself look.

Having said that, I'm not convinced the guy's actually racist or a white supremacist. I think he bit off way more than he could chew by deciding to be vocal about something he needed to shut up and think a little more about, and he's paying a heavy price for it.

I mean, it's certainly possible JonTron is racist. However, I don't think that's an obvious conclusion to draw based on what he said. Furthermore, I find the use of loaded labels to classify people as one of "them" (and therefore allow us to dismiss them entirely) one of the worst side effects of this culture war. I didn't like it when people called Anita Sarkeesian a liar, cheat and con artist, and I don't like that people are calling JonTron a white supremacist. I think it's far more productive to look at why someone holds certain views instead of looking for reasons to conclude someone is the "bad guy".

The entire stream was done in the name of empathy.. in the name of understanding... and JonTron didn't realize shit I'm fucked up, he instead:

source HP_Wuvcraft (old thread is closed so can't pull the quote properly)

To recap (and I'm sure this is not all of what JonTron said), JonTron said, in what he thought was perfectly fine for a debate:

- Foreigners dilute the gene pool
- Black crime in America is the same as in Africa (like, he fuckin' brought this up TWICE)
- Racial issues can be summed up via mixing different colors of paint
- Statistical data means nothing because Clinton lost the election
- Destiny wants to kill black people
- Black Lives Matter is a violent organization
- the richest black man commits more crimes than the poorest white man
- Tribalism is a valid theory
- Immigrants are destroying every single country they are let into
- America is gonna become Mexico
- Racism is over
- Muslims are organizing to make it seem like Christians are protesting abortion clinics

And Destiny didn't even fucking ask the most obvious fuckin' question: "If you're so concerned about immigrants, why do you keep bringing up blacks?

This is racism...