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Destiny 2 (PC/XB1/PS4, Sep 8) CG reveal trailer, pre-orders, gameplay debut May 18th
- Thread starter Blam
- Start date
Oh SBMM... Totally forgot about that atrocity...
THAT in my opinion, was when PvP really fell down the cliff.
THAT in my opinion, was when PvP really fell down the cliff.
Oh yes this is really important, I guess that thanks to their new engine this will be possible. If not then I really wonder what's going on down there in their minds.
Bungie will probably favour resolution, geometry, particle effects and overall parity between the consoles rather than going with 60fps, even if technically possible.
I dunno, I don't have any hopes of 60 on consoles tbh
Nothing to do with their engine, it's simply a design decision. They want your gun and character to behave consistently between PVE and PVP. I hope they change it, but I have no hopes for that either.
Jest Chillin
Member
Zoba is legit one of the best Destiny PvP players in the world. He knows what he's talking about.
I've adjusted to the slower speed but it's still not the worst speed for an FPS. Honestly, a big problem with all the tuning/balance changes was how they built the stat distribution for the weapons in the first place. They've tried to tweak that but it seems like it really needs an adjustment from the ground up.
I mean they measure damage drop off distance with hip fire as a base but programed ADS to multiply that distance, so any flat changes to hip fire distance (positive or negative) get multiplied the moment you ADS. This has to be a big reason why balancing has been so difficult.
Which, by the way, is why they've gone the route of rotating meta balance rather than chasing a perfect balance. It's easier to rotate the meta than it is chasing something that must be damn near impossible to achieve due to the way the weapons stats are inter-connected.
I've adjusted to the slower speed but it's still not the worst speed for an FPS. Honestly, a big problem with all the tuning/balance changes was how they built the stat distribution for the weapons in the first place. They've tried to tweak that but it seems like it really needs an adjustment from the ground up.
I mean they measure damage drop off distance with hip fire as a base but programed ADS to multiply that distance, so any flat changes to hip fire distance (positive or negative) get multiplied the moment you ADS. This has to be a big reason why balancing has been so difficult.
Which, by the way, is why they've gone the route of rotating meta balance rather than chasing a perfect balance. It's easier to rotate the meta than it is chasing something that must be damn near impossible to achieve due to the way the weapons stats are inter-connected.
Destiny's world didn't feel good to run around in or rewarding enough to explore. I hope with Destiny 2 they try to recapture Halo's sense of spectacle and bring in some feeling of adventure.
It was so weird to me that this shooter with RPG elements and pretentious fantasy/sci-fi mythology had these underdeveloped zones and hub areas full of invisible walls and no context or set pieces whatsoever. I hope they make me care about the world this time, and make it fun and exciting to live in.
It was so weird to me that this shooter with RPG elements and pretentious fantasy/sci-fi mythology had these underdeveloped zones and hub areas full of invisible walls and no context or set pieces whatsoever. I hope they make me care about the world this time, and make it fun and exciting to live in.
I'm on the other side of this. I want my guns to feel exactly the same in both PvE and PvP. It's one of the unique aspects of Destiny that I love.
Yes, it has led to issues at times and I think they can balance it better (specific perks that act a bit differently depending on the mode, for example) but overall I do not want Crucible to separate from the main game.
100% Agree.
I think D1s biggest issue with ballance has been its decision to Nerf rather then Buff to balance. I want Destiny to just keep adding power creep and an increasingly complicated scissors paper rock meta whenever 1 weapon or class gets too powerful.
I agree with you on that. I hope they introduce more ways to spice up PVE actions without sacrificing PVP balance. Like you said, mode-specific perks could be the way to go, but they can't overdo it on that front.
I admitted that the game is slow and I didn't argue that Bungie has changed those things that were mentioned.
However, whether or not the game "feels clunky" is strictly an opinion and nothing more. he can "know what he's talking about" all he wants. Attacking someone for having the opinion "I don't agree that this video game is clunky" and insulting them is absolutely uncalled for.
veloxStrix
Banned
He can be the best Destiny player in the world. That doesn't make insulting people any less immature. Even if I kind of agree with him about the way the game ended up going barring the hyperbole he tends to have.
That's even worse, really shows Bungie really stands behind their crazy bone headed decisions. People have requested the balances to be separated since the first patch dropped back in 2014...
I hope people have their expectations in check for d2. Expect awesome music art and controls. Wish for 60fps or 4K or matchmaking or all three. Wish for them... But don't expect them they are far very fucking far from a given.
For the record I loved both trailers but I'm a day one alpha apologist my Stockholm syndrome is deeply rooted lol.
For the record I loved both trailers but I'm a day one alpha apologist my Stockholm syndrome is deeply rooted lol.
Exactly.
Other than the lack of matchmaking, my biggest gripe with Destiny since The Taken King the constant fucking with weapons. They overdo it to the point where it's just silly. And I absolutely despise the logic of, "(Insert gun here) isn't being used enough so we're going to change (insert other gun here) negatively."
Bungie, focus on changing guns that people aren't using so that they want to use them. Don't nerf others simply so people are forced to change what they use.
I sincerely hope they've gotten rid of The Director from orbit. I hope I never see my Destiny 2 character sitting in orbit ever because it's basically a glorified loading screen between activities and it takes away control of my Guardian. With last gen limitations gone, I hope this is the first thing they rebuilt.
Jest Chillin
Member
Eh, debating over "feels clunky" is a semantics vocabulary argument. The game is slower which makes CQC more awkward. That's objective. Whether or not you mind it is subjective.
And I didn't comment or co-sign on the insult, so I have no idea why either of you would reply to me about it.
I feel like there has to be some version of the director in the game if you're going from planet to planet or jumping into a Nightfall.
It would be cool if instead of "returning to orbit" you simply could access the director no matter where you are in the game. Select where to go, your character then flies directly from one planet to the next.
Would be cool if that would cause your ship to appear in the sky on planets too but that might be too complicated.
Twilight Gap
Member
I'll add onto this more when I have time, but here are some of the changes they've done that have made the game "slower and clunkier". Note that some of these were replaced with other patches, but many of them remain intact, or were taken further:
First of all, this patch from February 2015 is the last time the game was "fast"
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/12557/7_Destiny-Weapon-Tuning
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/12607/7_Destiny-Update---02252015
Literally everything was less accurate, and this has never been reversed.
Highlighting Shotguns specifically, Bungie has attempted to fix them countless times by removing perks, reducing damage falloff, and literally slowing down equip and aim speeds, when they could have just removed the broken high impact archetype that they introduced in early 2015.
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/14016/7_Destiny-Weapon-Tuning--December-Update
Movement pentaly was removed here: https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/45661/7_Destiny-Hotfix---21417
Bladedancer was "overpowered" in Year One and now most people agree it feels awful in Year Three
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/44840/7_Destiny-Class-Balance---June-Update
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/44846/7_Destiny-Update---6142016
All of these have made Bladedancer's super slower and less consistent than it was in Year One. "Balance" should not be the result of making something less responsive.
Special Ammo changes
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/12753/7_Bungie-Weekly-Update---04092015
This is probably the worst patch in my opinion, when they made Sniper Rifles slower.
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/44609/7_Destiny-Update---04122016
Here's the patch for The Taken King when they basically nerfed everything except Pulse Rifles. The patches afterwards have not brought anything listed here up to its Year One value (except Hand Cannon accuracy)
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/13474/7_Destiny-Update---09082015
The most important thing to take away from this patch are the stability penalties, as they have largely remained intact since.
I'm not going to argue whether the game is "balanced" or not, but these changes and many more have contributed to slower response in player inputs, a smaller player skill gap, and less aggressive play as a result. It's fine if people prefer the slower time to kill, but that really doesn't correlate with response times.
First of all, this patch from February 2015 is the last time the game was "fast"
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/12557/7_Destiny-Weapon-Tuning
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/12607/7_Destiny-Update---02252015
Literally everything was less accurate, and this has never been reversed.
Highlighting Shotguns specifically, Bungie has attempted to fix them countless times by removing perks, reducing damage falloff, and literally slowing down equip and aim speeds, when they could have just removed the broken high impact archetype that they introduced in early 2015.
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/14016/7_Destiny-Weapon-Tuning--December-Update
Movement pentaly was removed here: https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/45661/7_Destiny-Hotfix---21417
Bladedancer was "overpowered" in Year One and now most people agree it feels awful in Year Three
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/44840/7_Destiny-Class-Balance---June-Update
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/44846/7_Destiny-Update---6142016
All of these have made Bladedancer's super slower and less consistent than it was in Year One. "Balance" should not be the result of making something less responsive.
Special Ammo changes
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/12753/7_Bungie-Weekly-Update---04092015
This is probably the worst patch in my opinion, when they made Sniper Rifles slower.
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/44609/7_Destiny-Update---04122016
Here's the patch for The Taken King when they basically nerfed everything except Pulse Rifles. The patches afterwards have not brought anything listed here up to its Year One value (except Hand Cannon accuracy)
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/13474/7_Destiny-Update---09082015
The most important thing to take away from this patch are the stability penalties, as they have largely remained intact since.
I'm not going to argue whether the game is "balanced" or not, but these changes and many more have contributed to slower response in player inputs, a smaller player skill gap, and less aggressive play as a result. It's fine if people prefer the slower time to kill, but that really doesn't correlate with response times.
Hopefully that's what they did. An in-game Duty Finder/Director that you can manage all your activity needs with no matter what you're doing at the time. That would be really nice.
Twilight Gap
Member
What I find insulting is that in the presence of facts and the experience of players who compete at the highest level of play, there will still be posts dismissing that based on "semantics" or other arbitrary interpretations. I've seen this in Halo's community for years; thus, I've personally taken a less inclusive approach in communicating the message.
Of course, I realize that undermines the effort and makes me look like a prick, but I frankly don't consider opposing points of view relevant having already backed up my perspective. It's impossible to argue that the game is not slower, or that Bungie didn't go around their elbow to get to their ass when it came to balancing it.
My opinion on the balance is that it's the best it has been now since February 2015, but it doesn't feel nearly as "crispy", for lack of a better word, based on all the changes they've made. It takes several perks to bring a weapon anywhere close to its default value in Year One.
veloxStrix
Banned
I - personally - really dislike games that have 32-64 players in multiplayer. It makes things way too hard to balance and fine tune so everything ends up being fairly bland and unremarkable. On the other hand, I would like to see more of a focus on community creation. Bring back Forge; give the community tools to develop new weapons, enemies, such and vote on the ones to be put into the game; etc. Let the community do some of the heavy lifting to make the game world feel alive.
Have a separate campaign mode like Halo - provided they don't go full open world, which I doubt they would. Going back to menu between every story mission was one of the most balling and obnoxious design choices I've ever seen.
For everything else, the director was fine. Maybe they could have a randomized animation system to add more variations when traveling to planets and what not.
I agree. It is impossible to argue that the game is not slower. Whether or not that is objectively worse is something completely different. Calling people mean names because they don't agree with your opinion about facts is still silly. It doesn't make you look like a prick - more like a grade schooler. And it hurts your whole argument - which if you aren't trying to convince anyone about anything, is pretty pointless in the first place.
Have a separate campaign mode like Halo - provided they don't go full open world, which I doubt they would. Going back to menu between every story mission was one of the most balling and obnoxious design choices I've ever seen.
For everything else, the director was fine. Maybe they could have a randomized animation system to add more variations when traveling to planets and what not.
I agree. It is impossible to argue that the game is not slower. Whether or not that is objectively worse is something completely different. Calling people mean names because they don't agree with your opinion about facts is still silly. It doesn't make you look like a prick - more like a grade schooler. And it hurts your whole argument - which if you aren't trying to convince anyone about anything, is pretty pointless in the first place.
Twilight Gap
Member
My comment was definitely uncalled for. I apologize. I responded abrasively because I did not feel it was a matter of opinion.
The game is slow because they lengthened the kill times and made player inputs clunky. If you're hung up on the strict definition of the term "clunky", then that's fine. The term isn't really relevant. A player can observe for themselves that the game has become less responsive overall than it was when it launched based on reductions to handling, equip animations, stability, aim assist, etc. Nearly every action the player inputs into the game is returned slower than it was when the game launched.
It is objectively worse though. If you replaced responsive with 60FPS and clunky with 30FPS, this would be no different than someone saying they disagree that 30FPS is clunkier.
I'm not trying to convince you to like 60FPS. I'm just telling you that it's more responsive, and there are enough tests that prove it for me.
HiredN00bs
Member
There are cooldowns in every action a player can perform, and some were extended, that's a fact. Whether or not one describes their current state overall as "smooth" or "clunky" is extremely subjective, and is not a matter of fact.
panama chief
Member
....and to break up the back and forth....
SOMETHING TO BUY!!!
SOMETHING TO BUY!!!
Jest Chillin
Member
....and to break up the back and forth....
SOMETHING TO BUY!!!
I want this but 20 bucks is a steep ask when I got Cayde for $5.
AstroNut325
Member
Where did you get Cayde for $5?
panama chief
Member
only $5? you got him for free.....with $60 purchase.
rant/
Activision/Bungie made my decision really simple. Gonna get the regular version from Bestbuy because of gamer unlocked bonus. I would have gotten the Limited but since Gamestop has it on lock, no sale from me. With all the discounts it actually makes it cheaper for me this way plus i don't have to buy the Season Pass right away. I'll hold of and get that through bestbuy as well if the DLC is good. If not, then I won't bother.
I played Destiny quite a bit, all the way until the last DLC, but honestly if I didn't have the season pass I wouldn't have played it as long as I did. I have a feeling that's what is going to happen with Destiny 2. I'll play the campaign and the first raid or whatever is included and probably bounce out if the DLC isn't to my liking. The first game left a sour taste in my mouth with all the money grabbing and shitty RNG. Pvp was great year one and beginning of year 2. Then it all went downhill and I said fuck this game especially after all the hunter nerfs and warlock buffs.
Activision/Bungie made my decision really simple. Gonna get the regular version from Bestbuy because of gamer unlocked bonus. I would have gotten the Limited but since Gamestop has it on lock, no sale from me. With all the discounts it actually makes it cheaper for me this way plus i don't have to buy the Season Pass right away. I'll hold of and get that through bestbuy as well if the DLC is good. If not, then I won't bother.
I played Destiny quite a bit, all the way until the last DLC, but honestly if I didn't have the season pass I wouldn't have played it as long as I did. I have a feeling that's what is going to happen with Destiny 2. I'll play the campaign and the first raid or whatever is included and probably bounce out if the DLC isn't to my liking. The first game left a sour taste in my mouth with all the money grabbing and shitty RNG. Pvp was great year one and beginning of year 2. Then it all went downhill and I said fuck this game especially after all the hunter nerfs and warlock buffs.
Pre-order from a Gamestop (or GAME? depending on the area - I don't know) and you get one while supplies last. You can cancel and keep the figure.
HiredN00bs
Member
Changing cooldowns is pretty different from changing the rate at which the game collects input. The game is likely reading input at every X number of frames. If this is the case, framerate and input per number of frames affect the initiation of all actions at all times.
Cooldowns are action-specific, like it takes Y frames to perform an action, and until you reach the next frame, you can't perform that action again, and then all other actions are either able to be performed simultaneously, interrupt the current action, or are simply blocked from being performed until the first action is complete and the input frame is reached.
If a player isn't consciously aware they are knocking against cooldowns they weren't before, the game is not going to be clunkier to them. If anybody tells you it isn't clunkier to you, they're simply wrong. But calling the game fast or slow or smooth or clunky is still all very subjective, especially when you consider people usually make this description in relation to other games.
Jest Chillin
Member
$5 down on a Pre-order and they give him to you on the spot. I'm not required to buy it to keep him. Though I will buy the game anyways, so it's not even $5 cost, just $5 up front.
Exactly. People do this for Beta codes and such all the time. This time I get a cool figure and I'm going to buy the game anyways, so I'm not even going to cancel.
HiredN00bs
Member
Yeah, he was a nice surprise when I tried to reserve a CE today and failed.
panama chief
Member
well shit. had no idea theyre being given now. im sure i missed the boat.
I dunno. I pre-ordered the CE at gamestop (I was the last of three! pretty excited about that) and didn't get the figure (I didn't know, and it seems the employee that checked me out did not either). I went back later on today to get it and they still had a whole counter full of them.
Jest Chillin
Member
Yeah, he was a nice surprise when I tried to reserve a CE today and failed.
Sorry you missed out on the CE man. ;/
You never know. Just depends on the foot traffic. A lot of people are buying digital/online so it's worth giving your local shops a call to see if they have them. Mine had about 15-20ish left as of opening this morning.
TheSkullPrince
Member
Had to drag my ass to GameStop to pre-order the LE since they're the only place that has it. At least I got the sweet ass Cayde-6 figure.
I agree that there have been countless nerfs that have made the game feel worse and worse to play since launch.
Literally everything but pulse rifles have been nerfed, and heavily at that. Abilities, guns, perks. It's a rare occasion to where nerfing something is the solution, when you can simply bump other things up to be just as good.
Still waiting on a buff for my swarm grenades, the worst grenade in the game. Instead they just nerf tripmines, which was an incredibly fun grenade to use that got just gutted.
I remember listening to a podcast and the lead developer of weapon balance said he wanted each patch to higlight new weapons like pulses or hand cannons so they could have their season to shine.
I can't think of a worse way to balance a game...
I really hope he didn't say that because wow, that's bad.
I was in utter disbelief...
It was one of the Crucible radio podcasts around the time Rise of Iron came out when they had them as a guest.
He sounds like a really cool guy but the design philosophy of that is just insane and I hope they change it in D2.
wesleyshark
Banned
Omg....and to break up the back and forth....
SOMETHING TO BUY!!!
everyday math
Banned
He did. Surprised you've never heard of it.
panama chief
Member
Preorder my friend 😈
Did the community respond to it?
....and to break up the back and forth....
SOMETHING TO BUY!!!
This is adorable.
I'm still waiting for Funko to show off their Destiny Pops, which they announced a few months back.