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"People in Japan worship white people." Fascinating GitS Roundtable

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BasicMath

Member
Any of you played Civ 5 and get to the point where a leader of another civ complains about how his people are now wearing "blue jeans and listening to your pop music"?

That's basically what happened a long time ago but it seems people are barely figuring that out and the meaning and extent of it.
 
actually reading the article, there are alot of good points brought up.... about how careless/thoughtless this was to the japanese aspect of this movie

also... the irony in this...

Not really ironic. There is a difference in acting "super 'oriental' aka ever nebulous American generalisation of 'Asian'" and acting out Japanese cultural norms.

Much like Hollywood's depiction of "black" usually revolves around outdated slang, baggy pants, and being a criminal of some sort devoid of any actual authentic cultural norms.
 
It's fucking crazy how complexions have changed in Japan the last twenty years. You go back and watch live action shows from Japan 20-30 years ago and you'd think they weren't the same people today. Back then they looked closer to how Okinawans look today.

Japan and Korea have whitening creams and treatments that would put that Beyonce bleach fake commercial to shame.

I've never seen a CEO using that shit. Like kaz hirai or any nintendo CEO
 

PSqueak

Banned
Pink Lives Matter

I think it's more about eliminating the the individuality of each race within the umbrella and creating a homogenous hodgepodge of "not white", it feels like people want to frame the world rather than "black/white/asian/hispanic/[race] and such" into "there is white as the default and there is everyone else as the other".
 
I'd recommend you watch the original again. The major doesn't actually sound robotic. She looks that way, but she very much has a personality and intonation to her voice. Scarlett is playing a version thought up by someone who hasn't watched the original in a long time, or only watched the boat scene

Don't watch the English dub. I think it may just be bad Voice Acting though and not intentional.
 
Yep people argue the best person for the job got it, why is 9.9/10 the best person is white? White is the the universal default and anything else is seen as straying from the norm or "pandering".
The worst Asian white supremacy co-sign I've seen was Akai Gurley's killing by NYPD officer Peter Liang.
 
I was kind of iffy on that part of the interview, but there's a lot of great content in there in addition to that.

This part is just sad:



It's hard to discuss this article without spoiler tags though because the ending twist is a main subject.

Good Lord. This situation is fucked from many angles.
 
I think it's more about eliminating the the individuality of each race within the umbrella and creating a homogenous hodgepodge of "not white", it feels like people want to frame the world rather than "black/white/asian/hispanic/[race] and such" into "there is white as the default and there is everyone else as the other".

hispanic is not a race

let's stop labeling it as such. If you're going for brown hispanics then you're thinking of native americans
 

Slayven

Member
I think it's more about eliminating the the individuality of each race within the umbrella and creating a homogenous hodgepodge of "not white", it feels like people want to frame the world rather than "black/white/asian/hispanic/[race] and such" into "there is white as the default and there is everyone else as the other".
That was actually a nerd joke. The Kree have a minority race that are pink skinned instead of blue. They are shitted on by the Blue skin Kree
The worst Asian white supremacy co-sign I've seen was Akai Gurley's killing by NYPD officer Peter Liang.

Shameful
 

PSqueak

Banned
hispanic is not a race

let's stop labeling it as such. If you're going for brown hispanics then you're thinking of native americans

that's the thing, people use hispanic as part of the hodgepodge label as if it was a race, that's my point, im talking about the usage of PoC as a crutch and i listed some examples that are usually used as "not white".

Im mexican, i know what a hispanic is or isn't.

That was actually a nerd joke. The Kree have a minority race that are pink skinned instead of blue. They are shitted on by the Blue skin Kree

Oh damn, whooosh. my bad.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
I've never seen a CEO using that shit. Like kaz hirai or any nintendo CEO

It's not like we are in their bathrooms watching them apply cosmetics.

Wouldn't be surprised if their significant others use them though.

This whole thing reminds me of Kohler's post on Wired

https://www.wired.com/2007/04/kaz_hirais_post/

kazchange.jpg
 

Usobuko

Banned
Someone else says it pretty well on neogaf recently.

White is a symbol of power, the world is white centric as a result. I won't say it's an obsession in Asia though.

Asian countries by and large still favours domestic artist first. It's just that the second place is always reserved for white instead of say other Asians, blacks or brown folks.
 

trixx

Member
I just wanna point out how fucked up the phrase "people of color" is because it's usage in seemingly any context automatically highlights the problem. There's white people, and then there's everybody else.
I definitely feel that it is one that is quite disingenuous
 
I did find it offputting that when I learned that it seems to be a lot of ads in fashion and beauty in Japan of half white Japanese women, but people had a problem with Ariana Miyamoto representing Japan. From somewhere else on the net it also sounded like it's common for Korean pop stars to get nose jobs to have noses similar to those who are white.
 
Strangely enough, the rise (well, rebirth) of nationalism seems to be driving an anti-western sentiment in many parts of the globe.
 

Slayven

Member
that's the thing, people use hispanic as part of the hodgepodge label as if it was a race, that's my point, im talking about the usage of PoC as a crutch and i listed some examples that are usually used as "not white".

Im mexican, i know what a hispanic is or isn't.



Oh damn, whooosh. my bad.
No worries mate
It's not like we are in their bathrooms watching them apply cosmetics.

Wouldn't be surprised if their significant others use them though.

This whole thing reminds me of Kohler's post on Wired

https://www.wired.com/2007/04/kaz_hirais_post/

kazchange.jpg
Damn the candy part got me
 

Usobuko

Banned
I think the nose thing is just preferences for small delicate-looking nose, it's not a white trait they model after.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Yoshihara: Even my ex-boyfriend, who is Asian-American, said, “What Asian lady has a body like Scarlett Johansson?”

Dude clearly never watched any quality JAV.

On a more serious note, this is very sad but expected.
 

Yeoman

Member
It's fucking crazy how complexions have changed in Japan the last twenty years. You go back and watch live action shows from Japan 20-30 years ago and you'd think they weren't the same people today. Back then they looked closer to how Okinawans look today.
Do you have any examples of this?
I'm not doubting you I'm just interested in reading more into this.
 

Oxn

Member
AS an asian american i must be doing it wrong. I try to tan up every chance i get.

In cold weather like now i can stand my paler complexion
 

Sunster

Member
I think the nose thing is just preferences for small delicate-looking nose, it's not a white trait they model after.

yes I have heard this too. and the double eyelid surgery, also not "whitifying". kpop stars definitely have a look that the vast majority of stars go for. But it's their own look.

AS an asian american i must be doing it wrong. I try to tan up every chance i get.

In cold weather like now i can stand my paler complexion

well that's what we Americans do! glad to have you on the team.
 
This is why video games and anime are most likely resemble white people

Is it? I've read from multiple places that giving characters blonde hair is a way of instantly denoting some kind of characteristics to them without needing to spell it all out.

For example:

Sailor Mars has raven black, long straight hair. Her personality is stoic, mysterious.
Sailor Moon has bright blonde hair in pigtails. Her personality is bubbly, outgoing.
 
I think the nose thing is just preferences for small delicate-looking nose, it's not a white trait they model after.

Yup, white nose is viewed as large and bulbous. Many theories that the mythical Tengu in Japan is actually a representation of a white person.

tB8z5pJ.jpg
 
THR invited the women to join a no-holds-barred conversation about cultural authenticity and why Japanese nationals fail to understand the race controversy: "People in Japan worship white people."

Some really great perspective here. I particularly enjoyed the commentary on how Japanese mothers behave.

And here people keep trying to tell me that anime people arent white. Yeah...bullshit.
 

smisk

Member
Very true. Trying to appeal to Asian markets, in particular China by including more Asian characters rarely has any positive impact on box office numbers.

Random obersavation, but I saw Kong: Skull Island the other weekend which was partially produced by Tencent. It has a throwaway Chinese character with only a couple lines, I can only imagine it's for this reason.
 

Not

Banned
It's fucking crazy how complexions have changed in Japan the last twenty years. You go back and watch live action shows from Japan 20-30 years ago and you'd think they weren't the same people today. Back then they looked closer to how Okinawans look today.

Japan and Korea have whitening creams and treatments that would put that Beyonce bleach fake commercial to shame.

It's fucking disgusting

In just a hundred years we've convinced people worldwide that for some reason humans who can't even go out in the sun without frying are the master race.
 
Could this be due to European/American standards of beauty being recognized through imported pop-culture as being "the gold standard" of beauty in Asia due to its prevalence creating this idea of "default appearance" as being white like it is in predominantly white countries?

That's a heavy part of it, yes. Especially as from that perspective, American/European standards of beauty are exotic, so there's that additional appeal. Though in Japan's case in particular I feel you have to consider two other factors.
1) History. Japan simply doesn't have the same cultural baggage as a lot of other countries because Japan, unlike so many other countries, was never a colony under European rule. American occupation after WW2 lasted only seven years. Japan does not have an extensive history of being the oppressed under white supremacy - indeed, much of East and South East Asia will tell you of how they were the oppressor.
2) Cultural output. The people of Japan do not need to look very far to find representation. Works both depicting the Japanese, or otherwise made by the Japanese, are common both domestically and abroad. Your Name made over 300 million dollars at the international box office last year. A generation grew up watching the adventures of a monkey with spiky black hair beating the shit out of bad guys. While the world may have Power Rangers, Japan have had Super Sentai for 40 years, and the farthest they've gone in terms of diversity in the main cast is occassionally having a cast member only be half-Japanese.

In a sense, white supremacy and whitewashing simply aren't as big of a deal in Japan, because to use the analogy of bowls of chocolate raisins, Japan's own bowl is still pretty decently full. Take away a Goku or a Major Kusanagi, its annoying but they still have many more. In an American/European context, the bowl for Asians is much, much less full, handful of big raisins at most. Some will still notice and question that the Japanese bowl is not as full as the white guy's, but most will not even register the gap.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Do you have any examples of this?
I'm not doubting you I'm just interested in reading more into this.
Here's some PC Magazine covers back in the day and an ad. Sorry for the bad quality.

TQQtxcp.jpg


wyNNbZ7.jpg


Sometimes in modern times if the girl isn't "light enough" heavy use of photoshop is used. Hell, photoshop is used like crazy anyways since it can create a mask. You'll notice this in any semi professional cosplay images. I feel bad for the poor bastards buying porn over there. It's like Russian roulette with whether the girl will look the same as she does on the cover.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Even in the middle east it's the same. Aside from being considered the most beautiful people around, they're often regarded as smarter and more capable than any local person can be, and are usually given much higher salaries than a local in an equivalent job. Whether or not they actually are doesn't matter, as long as they bring that fancy accent and attitude.
Heck, a lot of commercials still bring European looking people to give the product more credibility.
 

pa22word

Member
Random obersavation, but I saw Kong: Skull Island the other weekend which was partially produced by Tencent. It has a throwaway Chinese character with only a couple lines, I can only imagine it's for this reason.

I did read an article that was posted here that said Chinese people don't really give much of a shit about Asian representation in movies at all, they mostly just want more Chinese Nationals in movies.
 
Ugh OP your thread title quotes like the least important most off the cuff remark from a much longer and much more interesting discussion. This part was important to me, in showing how bullshit the "economic" reasons for whitewashing are:

"The audience will show up if you have authenticity. Like Moonlight, there was stuff in there that is so specific to that community where the filmmakers grew up. Even if I don’t understand everything they’re talking about, I will love it if I feel that it’s real. And you also feel when it’s not, and that was what we just spent two hours doing."
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
It's fucking disgusting

In just a hundred years we've convinced people worldwide that for some reason humans who can't even go out in the sun without frying are the master race.

I wonder how much focus there is for models to not get any sun light at all.

I'm surprised Den Fujita wasn't brought up yet in this thread. He was the founder of McDonald's Japan. You might have seen his notorious quote before.

"The reason Japanese people are so short and have yellow skins is because they have eaten nothing but fish and rice for two thousand years... If we eat McDonald's hamburgers and potatoes for a thousand years we will become taller, our skin become white, and our hair blonde."
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think the nose thing is just preferences for small delicate-looking nose, it's not a white trait they model after.

What they go for is a high bridge nose, which is viewed as being superior to one without.

I'd call that Caucasian media influence. It's too arbitrary of a preference, otherwise.
 
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