Thats because its well established he has the most potential out of anyone in the group and the only limiting factor is his body.I like how nobody's bothered at Gohan getting up to Blue tier in a day though.
Double standards man.
Thats because its well established he has the most potential out of anyone in the group and the only limiting factor is his body.I like how nobody's bothered at Gohan getting up to Blue tier in a day though.
Double standards man.
We're still bitching about power levels? Thought we were over this. What about the cycle?
Oh of course, but many people are saying 17 "can't possibly be that strong".
Most people that do think he can pretty much think this : "Well I wish they had shown his training or made the explanation more explicit, but 17 is awesome so it's fine".
Like the most angry people online think he flat can't be stronger than cell and the show is garbage now. (ignoring that cell's power was relative to 17)
Among that, many ignored he wasn't mechanical and deemed it impossible.
I mean, I'm not saying I don't like everyone getting powered up and becoming relevant. I do. I'm just saying that Toei has been really damn lazy when it comes to planning ahead and seeding ideas for future use, especially compared to Toriyama. And the complaints you see are a byproduct of that. Would it have killed them to have a quick cut to 17 bench pressing a mountain when Trunks met 18 in the Future Trunks arc? Like, that's all it would have taken.
I get what you are saying but time restraints and deadlines likely make them toss in depth coverage and development to the side
I mean, we're talking like a 10 second quick cut. They could have even done it this very arc when Goku asks 18 where he is. It's not exactly a high bar to clear.
They were not showing 17 before Goku met him specifically. Only far away shots and stuff like this.
Would have killed what they were going for to have scenes like that.
Plus it would make no sense, because he didn't get that strong overnight. It took over a decade.
That being said, they had time to talk about it after the fight.
But maybe it will happen tomorrow.
I mean, you do that sort of quick scene just to show that he was training during all that time and not just sitting on his ass or fighting poachers. The idea is you prime the audience somehow to expect the power jump.
There's not much point in doing it after tho...
What if the point was for the audience to learn about his power jump when Goku did? If that's the case we'll probably know tomorrow I guess.
Er what ?
It's never implied he got that strong fighting poachers. He said he put some efforts into getting stronger. Fighting the human poachers isn't "effort" for someone like him. We don't know if he has faced alien poachers yet.
The point is the element of surprise, and avoiding the whiny people afterwards by having Goku simply ask "by the way, how did you get that strong ?! You're even stronger than Cell was !" "Well, turns out thanks to my infinite stamina, I can do that and that" and then you can show the clip.
There would have been nothing wrong with that. Explicit foreshadowing is definitely not a requirement. If they were doing this with everybody it'd get old fast, but 17 was an outsider. They didn't do that for Krilin, who got a mini arc right before this arc.
Oh of course, but many people are saying 17 "can't possibly be that strong".
Most people that do think he can pretty much think this : "Well I wish they had shown his training or made the explanation more explicit, but 17 is awesome so it's fine".
Like the most angry people online think he flat can't be stronger than cell and the show is garbage now. (ignoring that cell's power was relative to 17)
Among that, many ignored he wasn't mechanical and deemed it impossible.
NEPs are 30 seconds my dude.
I still hope Gohan gets an upgrade to Ultimate that mixes his normal white aura with a more god like blue aura, similar to how Ikari is a mix of a regular Super Saiyan aura with the blue on the inside.
Goku will throw his match with Jiren to give Roshi a shot against him.
Believe.
Not before having Buu heal Jiren to full first.
I loved when Goku took the senzus when Gohan was fighting, I was cracking up thinking Goku could pull the same shit he did with Cell.
I honestly thought that would happen as well. I would have died laughing if he did that shit again.
I think everyone was expecting something to happen. Maybe that was foreshadowing for the tournament.
Items are forbidden in the tournament, aren't they ?
inb4 "Hey Buu, heal this guy"
You know, there's always been a rule against killing in tournaments, but we've never seen it broken. Maybe this time? I could see Frost doing it, or maybe Brolla goes to far.
Tournament starts, Goku does his fight with Jiren first because he's not that bright. Goku feels something in his pocket, pulls out the sensu beans from the exhibition match.
Goku: "I forgot I had these."
Grand Priest: "Goku, you're disqualified for bringing consumable items to a tournament."
Goku: "Vegeta brought them in."
Both Goku and Vegeta get disqualified.
I mean, there's bad handling of power levels and then there's an android sub imperfect cell level getting in the SSJB Goku ballpark by training on Earth. I really didn't like this asspull, 17 being as strong or even stronger than SSJ3 would've been more than enough for the tournament.Only thing I'm saying about 17's strength:
I was happy to see another earth warrior go toe to toe with Goku. And I honestly don't care how because this series has historically been trash at power levels anyway.
LmaoTournament starts, Goku does his fight with Jiren first because he's not that bright. Goku feels something in his pocket, pulls out the sensu beans from the exhibition match.
Goku: "I forgot I had these."
Grand Priest: "Goku, you're disqualified for bringing consumable items to a tournament."
Goku: "Vegeta brought them in."
Both Goku and Vegeta get disqualified.
I mean, there's bad handling of power levels and then there's an android sub imperfect cell level getting in the SSJB Goku ballpark by training on Earth. I really didn't like this asspull, 17 being as strong or even stronger than SSJ3 would've been more than enough for the tournament.
For me it's the fact that Goku became a god and was trained by an angel to achieve his current level. No doubt that 17 could get MUCH stronger than he was in the Android/Cell saga during these 13 years, but this is just too much (and i'm not sure it was necessary for the story, although it's a bit early to tell).What's the difference? Not saying that as an accusation, I've actually genuinely been curious about this. How much power the the limit of what people think Android 17 could have achieved on that island in 13 years? What is it that makes that limit the limit?
For me it's the fact that Goku became a god and was trained by an angel to achieve his current level. No doubt that 17 could get MUCH stronger than he was in the Android/Cell saga during these 13 years, but this is just too much (and i'm not sure it was necessary for the story, although it's a bit early to tell).
I mean, I don't expect Tenshinan and Roshi to be Perfect Cell and Android 16 level.
I wanna see 18 train and get that strong...
What if the shock waves in BoG gave 17 android god powers?
Gero designed 17 with parts that would trigger when exposed to God ki.
The really simple way was to have Android 17's barrier being able to absorb powers.
Have Goku fire the ki blast, have 17 absorb it, done.
:/
Freeza is an entirely different matter. He was a prodigy with the highest power level in the universe amongst mortals (except Buu... which was a demon anyway) without ever training. He built a galactic empire based on his strength. After he trained to pursue his vendetta, he unlocked an entirely new transformation that gave him immense power but he couldn't really control it and ended up losing the fight against both Goku and Vegeta. He was the main enemy of that movie/arc and still had some pretty significant drawbacks.Yeah except Golden Frieza and Trunks happened. 17 was better than both of them initially so they're consistent.
Might have worked better if they gave a credible explanation for it it but i'm not sure how Gero would've ever seen god ki. It would've been cool though.What if the shock waves in BoG gave 17 android god powers?
Gero designed 17 with parts that would trigger when exposed to God ki.
Iirc they explained in Z that 16-17-18 don't have anything of the sort because they have infinite stamina.The really simple way was to have Android 17's barrier being able to absorb powers.
Have Goku fire the ki blast, have 17 absorb it, done.
:/
Yeah except Golden Frieza and Trunks happened. 17 was better than both of them initially so they're consistent.
Wouldn't surprise me knowning how AT likes to troll.
The way they trivialized previous trainings/enemies has always been my biggest gripe with DB, easily.See, again, I don't think that matters. I think that the real reason that people are upset isn't that the rules are inconsistent, it's that they're being used to explain away too much and it's breaking suspension of disbelief for some people.
Another unspoken rule that I think is in play is that training in Dragonball is more effective when a precedent has been set. Like how it took Roshi years to master the Kamehameha, then Goku picked it up after one look, and Krillin and Yamcha figured it out a while after. Or how Raditz was at an incredible level that the Earthlings could barely touch, but when they learned that there was something stronger coming, they could all reach that level without needing any new kind of training.
Frieza is an entirely different matter. He was a prodigy with the highest power level in the universe amongst mortals (except Buu... which was a demon anyway) without ever training. He built a galactic empire based on his strength. After he trained to pursue his vendetta, he unlocked an entirely new transformation that gave him immense power but he couldn't really control it and ended up losing the fight against both Goku and Vegeta. He was the main enemy of that movie/arc and still had
some drawbacks.
Trunks' power up was an asspull as well, but the false ssj blue was rage induced, and we have other examples of what rage can do (Vegeta hitting Beerus and trashing Black, Goku beating Black and Zamasu together, Black causing a distortion in space etc, likely even Freeza achieving his golden transformation was a combination of trainingr+pure rage), while the second one was sorta like the genkidama.
Maybe there's also the fact that 18 was always in the anime and she never got really much stronger than she was, that too might alter perception of what an android can do, but either way it felt weird as hell. The scenario of the fight at sunset was kinda cool though.
The way they trivialized previous trainings/enemies has always been my biggest gripe with DB, easily.
Still, the point is that in this tournament there are fighters that are incredibly less powerful than 17 was in Z, and they will certainly have their part during it (the tournament is about team work after all, and other than spending lots of episodes on secondary characters the anime already showed how good U11 is at this), so was there really a reason to make 17 around ssjb level and break suspension of disbelief like you said? SSJ3 is pretty damn strong, and nobody would've said anything if he was even considerably stronger than that. It would've been completely credible.
So how long until the Limit Break X Survivor single?
What's the difference? Not saying that as an accusation, I've actually genuinely been curious about this. How much power the the limit of what people think Android 17 could have achieved on that island in 13 years? What is it that makes that limit the limit?
Frost needs to get some character development and turn out like like he was originally presented.
U6 could use another interesting character on their team besides Hit and Cabba.
Gohan's look when he wins the tournament solo.