Yeah. Most of the complaints i've seen are up to debate in my opinion, but this one i fully agree. Hannah managed to get her revenge after death and that's not a good message to give. Clay might be the one pulling the heavy work, but without her tapes, nothing would be made.
I never saw the original novel, but it looks like
Clay never do most of the stuff we see him do on the series,
listen to the tapes in a day and just passes it away for the next one after listening. I think that sends a better message, but also would be a bit less fun to watch.
I also agree that they should advise ways to get help. The messages before the darker episodes was a good touch, but i don't feel like they are enough.
I thought it was great. Will recommend. Only part that felt really off to me was the stop sign sequence. The 911 argument felt really forced. Otherwise, shit felt legit.
You can tell they did their homework. If you guys didn't like a certain personality type, too bad. Those types of people and reactions exist. Imperfection is part of the point.
Yes it is. We're told it's really hard for him to listen to the tapes, but he has not problem going full detective for day after day on all of the people involved, including Hannah's mother at one point. That time could've been spent listening to the tapes. It's not like he listens to a bit and then winds down by playing some of his favorite sport or hanging out with friends or whatever; from our perspective he spends every waking moment exploring the suicide inside his mind and from the perspective of other people, who by the way, mostly tell him nothing. This is a nothing excuse that doesn't make any sense.
Yes it is. We're told it's really hard for him to listen to the tapes, but he has not problem going full detective for day after day on all of the people involved, including Hannah's mother at one point. That time could've been spent listening to the tapes. It's not like he listens to a bit and then winds down by playing some of his favorite sport or hanging out with friends or whatever; from our perspective he spends every waking moment exploring the suicide inside his mind and from the perspective of other people, who by the way, mostly tell him nothing. This is a nothing excuse that doesn't make any sense.
When people I loved died I could barely look at their photos without turning in to a mess, cannot imagine listening to some beyond the grave tapes they left talking about all the awful shit in this show.
Him not being able to listen to the tapes wasn't even in my top 10 least believable things about this show.
When people I loved died I could barely look at their photos without turning in to a mess, cannot imagine listening to some beyond the grave tapes they left talking about all the awful shit in this show.
Him not being able to listen to the tapes wasn't even in my top 10 least believable things about this show.
I just cannot believe someone this invested in investigating the nature of the tapes is this reluctant about actually going into the tape's and wasting the audience's time. Even if it's believable, the latter is still a pretty big issue.
And also, it's not like the tapes are solely a heart-wrenching reminder of the person that passed away. She literally starts out by threatening him and any that are listening. "You're being watched".... oh okay, this is reeeeeeally tough to get through on an emotional level. Nah, that would be out the window at that point for someone that has no idea why they're being targeted.
I just watched the first episode and I'm not really feeling it. None of the characters outside of Hannah and Clay feel real and the entire premise feels exploitative. I'll give the next three episodes a chance but unless it drastically improves I really don't see myself finishing the show.
So I just finished this last night. It was okay. It started out kind of slow because the early tapes were things literally every high schooler experiences.
The scene where Hannah says to Clay - "Those skittles will kill you." and he responds by saying - "This coming from a person who's eating a salad from the company that makes the Big Mac." was a perfectly harmless exchange and not even worth showing. She is super dramatic and says "Are you fat shaming me?" What was the goal of that? If it was trying to show Clay in a bad light, it failed. If it's trying to show you that minor things you say can have larger consequences, then wouldn't Hannah, who started the whole, what you're eating is bad for you, be at fault?
I did find myself laughing quite a bit, mostly from how campy some of the dialogue came off. I loved the basketball coach calling Clay "Skinny kid" multiple times despite Clay being in his class and correcting him the first time.
My two biggest problems about the show were :
1) Clay being on one of the tapes and how he and Tony both seemed to wholeheartedly agree that Clay was partially responsible for Hannah's death. He did nothing wrong. Yes, he at times was an awkward teenager that didn't phrase things in the best way, but none of that was malicious.
2) It relied so heavily on the viewers curiosity as the main driving point to keep watching. By the end of the show I wanted to fast forward through the present day scenes because it felt as if the show was stalling. Clay continuously asked what was next on the tapes instead of just listening to them. If they went away from the flashbacks to show genuinely important things happening in the present, that's totally fine. But don't stop the flashback just so Clay can ask some question that the tapes would eventually answer.
One of the best points this show makes is about how you actually can tell when someone is thinking about suicide. I mean
that's the whole point with Alex. He gives off signs of suicide for the last half of the show, but nobody pays attention to it. Porter talking to Hannah was also probably similar to how a lot of counselors would try to handle that. My high school certainly didn't have anyone with a degree in that role; they were more of a career advice person, no mental health training at all.
So I just finished this last night. It was okay. It started out kind of slow because the early tapes were things literally every high schooler experiences.
The scene where Hannah says to Clay - "Those skittles will kill you." and he responds by saying - "This coming from a person who's eating a salad from the company that makes the Big Mac." was a perfectly harmless exchange and not even worth showing. She is super dramatic and says "Are you fat shaming me?" What was the goal of that? If it was trying to show Clay in a bad light, it failed. If it's trying to show you that minor things you say can have larger consequences, then wouldn't Hannah, who started the whole, what you're eating is bad for you, be at fault?
I did find myself laughing quite a bit, mostly from how campy some of the dialogue came off. I loved the basketball coach calling Clay "Skinny kid" multiple times despite Clay being in his class and correcting him the first time.
My two biggest problems about the show were :
1) Clay being on one of the tapes and how he and Tony both seemed to wholeheartedly agree that Clay was partially responsible for Hannah's death. He did nothing wrong. Yes, he at times was an awkward teenager that didn't phrase things in the best way, but none of that was malicious.
2) It relied so heavily on the viewers curiosity as the main driving point to keep watching. By the end of the show I wanted to fast forward through the present day scenes because it felt as if the show was stalling. Clay continuously asked what was next on the tapes instead of just listening to them. If they went away from the flashbacks to show genuinely important things happening in the present, that's totally fine. But don't stop the flashback just so Clay can ask some question that the tapes would eventually answer.
One of the best points this show makes is about how you actually can tell when someone is thinking about suicide. I mean
that's the whole point with Alex. He gives off signs of suicide for the last half of the show, but nobody pays attention to it. Porter talking to Hannah was also probably similar to how a lot of counselors would try to handle that. My high school certainly didn't have anyone with a degree in that role; they were more of a career advice person, no mental health training at all.
One of the best points this show makes is about how you actually can tell when someone is thinking about suicide. I mean
that's the whole point with Alex. He gives off signs of suicide for the last half of the show, but nobody pays attention to it. Porter talking to Hannah was also probably similar to how a lot of counselors would try to handle that. My high school certainly didn't have anyone with a degree in that role; they were more of a career advice person, no mental health training at all.
It's pretty hilarious watching this with my mom and seeing a lot of myself in how that person acts, and she still doesn't seem to get I might have depression.
It's pretty hilarious watching this with my mom and seeing a lot of myself in how that person acts, and she still doesn't seem to get I might have depression.
Violent mood swings, reckless behavior (the speeding) and no regard for his personal safety, and cleaning his room before shooting himself. I haven't watched it since it came out so I'm likely forgetting some other actions of his, but in hindsight those stick out and it all clicked. Outside of Clay, Alex is the one person in the group that is obviously coping with a lot of guilt and he constantly seemed to welcome any blowback from the tapes. But he never receives it. Wasn't reprimanded for fighting, suspended like Montgomery, didn't have to show up for his disposition... Like Clay, he seemed to blame himself for everything that stemmed from his list and apparently caved into his guilt by the last episode.
The cleaning of the room is the biggest clue. Hannah did the same before her successful suicide attempt and it's a warning sign when dealing with someone suffering from depression.
There was, but it was kind of more abrupt than people hoped for. In the end
Clay is no more in touch with how important it is to reach out to people who need help and starts with his old friend Skye; Alex attempted to kill himself because he basically got out of everything without a scratch; Jessica accepts what happened to her and tells her dad about it; Courtney comes out to her parents; Justin skips town when Jessica tells him to stay away from her forever; Marcus and Zach are presumably going to be screwed over when the lawsuit concludes; Hannah's parents have definitive proof that Hannah told Mr. Porter she was planning on ending her life he did nothing which basically makes their case a slam dunk, they also have a copy of the original 13 audio tracks so they will get actual closure; Ryan lost his newspaper which was crucial to his higher education; and the peeping tom (can't remember his name) has basically been shamed by the entire school and may be planning a school shooting himself.
She is super dramatic and says "Are you fat shaming me?" What was the goal of that? If it was trying to show Clay in a bad light, it failed. If it's trying to show you that minor things you say can have larger consequences, then wouldn't Hannah, who started the whole, what you're eating is bad for you, be at fault?
There was, but it was kind of more abrupt than people hoped for. In the end
Clay is no more in touch with how important it is to reach out to people who need help and starts with his old friend Skye; Alex attempted to kill himself because he basically got out of everything without a scratch; Jessica accepts what happened to her and tells her dad about it; Courtney comes out to her parents; Justin skips town when Jessica tells him to stay away from her forever; Marcus and Zach are presumably going to be screwed over when the lawsuit concludes; Hannah's parents have definitive proof that Hannah told Mr. Porter she was planning on ending her life he did nothing which basically makes their case a slam dunk, they also have a copy of the original 13 audio tracks so they will get actual closure; Ryan lost his newspaper which was crucial to his higher education; and the peeping tom (can't remember his name) has basically been shamed by the entire school and may be planning a school shooting himself.
Sherri turns herself in for taking out the stop sign that we believe lead to Jeff's death, and Bryce is pretty much toast since Clay has a tape of him confessing to rape. Not sure how I forgot that second one since he's a real asshole.
Violent mood swings, reckless behavior (the speeding) and no regard for his personal safety, and cleaning his room before shooting himself. I haven't watched it since it came out so I'm likely forgetting some other actions of his, but in hindsight those stick out and it all clicked. Outside of Clay, Alex is the one person in the group that is obviously coping with a lot of guilt and he constantly seemed to welcome any blowback from the tapes. Be never receives it. Wasn't reprimanded for fighting, suspended like Montgomery, didn't have to show up for his disposition... Like Clay, he seemed to blame himself for everything that stemmed from his list and apparently caved into his guilt by the last episode.
The cleaning of the room is the biggest clue. Hannah did the same before her successful suicide attempt and it's a warning sign when dealing with someone suffering from depression.
Sherri turns herself in for taking out the stop sign that we believe lead to Jeff's death, and Bryce is pretty much toast since Clay has a tape of him confessing to rape. Not sure how I forgot that second one since he's a real asshole.
maybe his reputation is toast but virtually any lawyer could create doubt about that tape's authenticity and get him off. In real court that tape probably wouldn't even be admissible.
maybe his reputation is toast but virtually any lawyer could create doubt about that tape's authenticity and get him off. In real court that tape probably wouldn't even be admissible.
Depending on the state that tape would be fine. Plus it seemed like Jessica was going to report it now, and chances are that he raped other girls as well.
Don't patronize me. I even said the beginning of that back and forth was a "Harmless exchange", which should have given you the indication I was aware it was joking amongst friends at least at first. I personally think the fat shaming comment is coming from someone who's looking for drama. He even appears taken aback when she says it. I'm not saying that's a fact, that's just how it came across to me. If you disagree that's fine.
She also follows up that comment with the question, "Do you ever think I could be as pretty as Jessica Davis?" Which again comes off as insecure and dramatic.
Perhaps you're right. I didn't view it that way though. I'm sure there were plenty of things that you took more seriously than I did in the show and vice versa. It's just a matter of perspective.
Just finished watching it tonight. Thought it captured high school life pretty well except for all the tattoos and heavy drinking (maybe I ran in different circles). I enjoyed the show and thought it brought up some really good points, as well as how it wasn't "troubled kids" who were at the center of all the drama but instead the more successful kids at the school. Aside from that I can't stand about all the talk of a season 2. I loved the way it ended, without much resolution since real life doesn't get concrete endings.
Depending on the state that tape would be fine. Plus it seemed like Jessica was going to report it now, and chances are that he raped other girls as well.
We had trouble convicting those 2 boys who were on video raping a girl at a party a while back. i forget the state. Ohio? Bryce is white, rich, and a student athlete plus 0 priors and evidence apart from a tape where he didn't even say he raped her(thought that was a bit of a let down). It'd be pretty unrealistic imo if he sees a cell next season. Probation maybe.
Just finished watching it tonight. Thought it captured high school life pretty well except for all the tattoos and heavy drinking (maybe I ran in different circles). I enjoyed the show and thought it brought up some really good points, as well as how it wasn't "troubled kids" who were at the center of all the drama but instead the more successful kids at the school. Aside from that I can't stand about all the talk of a season 2. I loved the way it ended, without much resolution since real life doesn't get concrete endings.
you're not alone. idk why TV writers are obsessed with adding in these college type parties in a high school student story as if they are average occurrences.
I figure most people that are serious about killing themselves would look up methods to see what has the highest success rate. Cutting your arms/wrists is pretty inefficient.
I figure most people that are serious about killing themselves would look up methods to see what has the highest success rate. Cutting your arms/wrists is pretty inefficient.
I figure most people that are serious about killing themselves would look up methods to see what has the highest success rate. Cutting your arms/wrists is pretty inefficient.
You didn't answer my question which was what kind of stupid question was that? Are you saying that anyone who doesn't successfully find a way to kill themselves is either stupid or doing it wrong?
Just because people don't kill themselves in your preferred way does not mean they're any less serious about doing it.
You didn't answer my question which was what kind of stupid question was that? Are you saying that anyone who doesn't successfully find a way to kill themselves is either stupid or doing it wrong?
Just because people don't kill themselves in your preferred way does not mean they're any less serious about doing it.
It's just odd to me that a modern show would portray suicide in that way. I'm sure it still happens but I figure it would be pretty rare with the resources most people have at their fingertips these days.
It's just odd to me that a modern show would portray suicide in that way. I'm sure it still happens but I figure it would be pretty rare with the resources most people have at their fingertips these days.
Your points don't make much sense. Who cares if there are other ways to kill yourself. Just because they exist does not make it any less valid to show suicide via slit wrists. What is really your concern here? I don't understand you.
I guess people who try to commit suicide slitting their wrists are pretty stupid for not doing their due diligence and discovering the absolute most foolproof ways to die. Right.
It's just odd to me that a modern show would portray suicide in that way. I'm sure it still happens but I figure it would be pretty rare with the resources most people have at their fingertips these days.
