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|OT| French Presidential Elect 2017 - La France est toujours insoumise; Le Pen loses

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Alx

Alx

Member
Sinsem said:
That's not what was said.
Unless suddently, I can't read French.
Click to expand...

"Entre le pire et ceux qui fabriquent le pire" implies that they're both parts of the same problem. That kind of thinking is even used to support the FN, since some claim "better vote them in now rather than in 5 years" (because... reasons).
 
T

Tamanator

Member
Crab said:
Not at all. If you look at Melenchon's values, it is clear that given these values the world is worse under Le Pen than Macron. By refusing to point that out, he is doing his values an injustice. He does not 'control' his voters - nobody controls their voters. They are always free to vote as they wish, and always were. However, explaining how his values would influence a 2R vote is absolutely his place, and he does a disservice to all his voters by not doing so.

Just proves Hamon was always the better candidate.
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Depends on which values we're talking about. Social values? Yes you're correct.
Economic values? Macron represents everything Melenchon and his core supporters despise whilst on paper, Le Pen's economic program shares many elements with Melenchon's envisaged one.

It's the case of neither candidate really fully aligning with his beliefs, even marginally. So it's not surprising that he won't endorse Melenchon, despite his noted hate of FN.
 
K

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
dark10x said:
That's because my wife and son are both French (though have dual citizenship) but we live in Germany and the EU makes our situation work. Kill the EU and things could become difficult, basically.
Click to expand...

Ah, I see, makes a lot of sense. All we can do is hope things go your way. I know I'll be doing my part.
 
C

chromatic9

Member
Coriolanus said:
.
Click to expand...

The last one was I did (Le Pen) was a dig at the voters and used animals in pens ie food after a series of normal food related things for the others from a English perspective on a English speaking forum. Pasta is widely used world wide.

If you want to try and make out everyone knows penne is pasta and I somehow missed it then try quoting this person with your "." reply.

Fisico said:
They don't in french, not sure what you're reading in english either

Macron : Mac Ron, some burger from Mac Donald's? In french you read it Ma-cron however.
Le Pen : I have no idea
Melenchon : Can't see it.
Fillon : Don't know either
Hamon : Ham I guess? The whole name reads more like a power from Jojo's part 2 though.
Click to expand...
 
E

Elandyll

Banned
Sinsem said:
That's not what was said.
Unless suddently, I can't read French.
Click to expand...
I can, don't worry.

"Entre le pire et ceux qui fabriquent le pire, l'un nourrit l'autre."

"Between The Worst and those who create The Worst, one give birth to the other."

Pretty darn close to "Both Sides", unless he wasn't talking about the LePen/ Macron choice, but given how he goes onto saying in the very next sentence they can't possibly work with Macron once elected, that's how I interpret it.
 
A

AuthenticM

Member
Is there a website or an article that goes into detail on Le Pen's platform, on what she wants to do, both economically and socially, in a concise manner? The platform is obviously on Le Pen's website, but it's very long, and I'm sure it obfuscates some of the unsavory parts of what she said she'd do in the past.
 
RPGCrazied

RPGCrazied

Member
AuthenticM said:
Is there a website or an article that goes into detail on Le Pen's platform, on what she wants to do, both economically and socially, in a concise manner? The platform is obviously on Le Pen's website, but it's very long, and I'm sure it obfuscates some of the unsavory parts of what she said she'd do in the past.
Click to expand...

Shes a female Trump, what more do you need to know?
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Condom said:
It's normal in socialist parties to vote on supporting a certain candidate or movement, it's called party democracy. The party is seen as the voice of the workers, a way of them to speak out their needs and wants.
Racist scapegoating organizations or liberal status quo (capital) support groups are not.

And he is arguing against Le Pen, that of course doesn't need a vote.
Click to expand...

Of course, and La France Insoumise, as a party, does have to represent the collective opinion of its members, and should not back Macron without an agreement among its members - I agree with you. However, Jean-Luc Melenchon, as an individual, does not have to do this, and is free to point out that Le Pen's policies divide and alienate the workers from another and make his goals and values more difficult in the long-run, in a way that Macron's do not, even if one disagrees with them. Macron represents at worst a delay in to Melenchon's ideals, a missed opportunity; Le Pen represents an absolute setback, a reduction in class consciousness in favour of race and religion. Jean-Luc Melenchon saying "I personally would not vote for Le Pen" is different and meaningfully so from La France Insoumise issuing a statement saying "Les Insoumises should not vote for Le Pen"; and Melenchon has a personal moral duty to do the former. The fact he has not is disappointing and a stain on his character.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
AuthenticM said:
Is there a website or an article that goes into detail on Le Pen's platform, on what she wants to do, both economically and socially, in a concise manner? The platform is obviously on Le Pen's website, but it's very long, and I'm sure it obfuscates some of the unsavory parts of what she said she'd do in the past.
Click to expand...

Le Monde has a summary that is easy to browse (IMO) . In French, though.
Le Pen : http://www.lemonde.fr/personnalite/marine-le-pen/programme/
Macron : http://www.lemonde.fr/personnalite/emmanuel-macron/programme/
 
A

AuthenticM

Member
RPGCrazied said:
Shes a female Trump, what more do you need to know?
Click to expand...

"She's a female Trump" is not enough to show some people why she's bad for the country. It might be apparent to us, but sadly for some it's not. And there's also the fact that, unlike Trump, she doesn't look like a clown.

Alx said:
Le Monde has a summary that is easy to browse (IMO) . In French, though.
Le Pen : http://www.lemonde.fr/personnalite/marine-le-pen/programme/
Macron : http://www.lemonde.fr/personnalite/emmanuel-macron/programme/
Click to expand...

Thanks

I wish the article explained some of the propositions. For exemple, this:

Code: 
Préférer le principe d’assimilation à celui d’intégration

Promouvoir l’assimilation républicaine, principe plus exigeant que celui d’intégration.

What does this mean, exactly? How does it translation into application?
 
F

Fistwell

Member
AuthenticM said:
Code: 
Préférer le principe d’assimilation à celui d’intégration

Promouvoir l’assimilation républicaine, principe plus exigeant que celui d’intégration.

What does this mean, exactly? How does it translation into application?
Click to expand...
Assimilation has a stronger connotation. It seems to imply the immigrant accepts and conforms to the cultural codes of the host country. Whereas integration simply means she/he is able to live within the host society in good intelligence with others. Assimilation suggests leaving behind one's culture and customs to adopt those of the host country.

Is how I'm understanding it. It's not completely clear though.
 
A

AuthenticM

Member
Fistwell said:
Assimilation has a stronger connotation. It seems to imply the immigrant accepts and conforms to the cultural codes of the host country. Whereas integration simply means she/he is able to live within the host society in good intelligence with others. Assimilation suggests leaving behind one's culture and customs to adopt those of the host country.

Is how I'm understanding it. It's not completely clear though.
Click to expand...

Oh, definitely. But how does Le Pen plan to put this into law? That's what I want to know.
 
B

Blackpuppy

Member
I'm about as left winged as they get, but I am getting sick of all the whiny Mélanchon supporters on my Facebook feed. I just don't see how they can call Macron and LePen two different evils.

I actually like Macron's ecological plans which sound like something plausible rather than the utopia Mélanchon has been selling people.

"32 hour work week! Jobs for everyone! Expel the bankers and Illuminati!" Pffff
 
T

Tiberius

Member
Apparently putin's troll factory is fully working to create shit about macron

un-utilisateur-de-4chan-tente-de-lancer-une-fausse-rumeur-sur-emmanuel-macron_5867981.jpg
 
C

Condom

Member
Crab said:
Of course, and La France Insoumise, as a party, does have to represent the collective opinion of its members, and should not back Macron without an agreement among its members - I agree with you. However, Jean-Luc Melenchon, as an individual, does not have to do this, and is free to point out that Le Pen's policies divide and alienate the workers from another and make his goals and values more difficult in the long-run, in a way that Macron's do not, even if one disagrees with them. Macron represents at worst a delay in to Melenchon's ideals, a missed opportunity; Le Pen represents an absolute setback, a reduction in class consciousness in favour of race and religion. Jean-Luc Melenchon saying "I personally would not vote for Le Pen" is different and meaningfully so from La France Insoumise issuing a statement saying "Les Insoumises should not vote for Le Pen"; and Melenchon has a personal moral duty to do the former. The fact he has not is disappointing and a stain on his character.
Click to expand...
I agree that criticism of Le Pen should be there and it's free. There is never a reason not to criticize them.

The embarrassing thing is having to (indirectly) support a literal banker to keep fascists out. It will also cause economic setback, not just a delay. Who knows how much liberalization Macron will eventually push through. That will never be easy because it is a sign of your failure, not just as a person but also as the left in general. I can understand his reluctance in that sense. This stuff hurts but I trust that enough people will still do what they have to do in the voting booths.
 
F

Fistwell

Member
AuthenticM said:
Oh, definitely. But how does Le Pen plan to put this into law? That's what I want to know.
Click to expand...
Oh I don't know. *shrug*

I'd expect cutting funding for (non-french) cultural associations, if not making them outright illegal, making ostentatious religious signs illegal not just in public institutions but in public areas in general. French culture courses to immigrants. Breaking up foreign communities by relocation, making public and private gatherings having to do with foreign culture illegal. Enforcing mandatory attendance to French cultural events for immigrants.

Something like that. No clue what she'd actually intend to do, read the above as my own deranged fantasy/nightmare.
 
K

Kill Your Masters

Member
Alx said:
Wait, people openly brainstorm for the kind of fake news they plan to spread ?
Click to expand...

Every shitty lying newspaper ever works like this, breitbart, the sun...Troll houses just do it as "random people" without a newspaper standing behind it.

It's very probable that it's a full time job and many fake accounts on Reddit, YouTube and other places are probably multiple people working in shifts and getting paid for it.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
Fillon is toast, he said he won't lead the right into the next elections this fall. Unsurprisingly, his political career ended yesterday.
 
A

azyless

Member
6.4% for Hamon makes me a little sad. Under other circumstances I would have been happy to vote for him. Hopefully he gets to be a part of whatever comes next for the left.

Le Pen being only 1.7% above 4th is pretty nice though.
 
M

Mael

Member
Damn the tears on fb gave me life.
After months of open propaganda and shitty brickwalls about that useless Vith rev, the tears are even more delicious than the shitty gamers who can't stop crying about casuals.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
Nyx said:
How big is the chance Le Pen wins round 2?
Click to expand...

Low, but it could happen if several of the following points are met :
- Macron does a massive blunder during the next two weeks
- some new scandal, real or fake, appears against him (would hardly be a surprise with the state of current social networks)
- too many people consider it in the bag and don't go vote (the second round is during a 3-days week-end)
- too many "angry" voters decide to vote Le Pen "to teach people a lesson" (yes, people are that dumb).
 
C

CCS

Banned
Alliance (the police union) has called on officers to vote against Le Pen. Makes a pleasant change from American police unions and their frequent cheerleading for racism and hatred.
 
J

JonnyDBrit

Member
Nyx said:
How big is the chance Le Pen wins round 2?
Click to expand...

If polls are accurate - and they generally were with regards to the first round - then there is a 20 to 30 point gap between Macron and Le Pen in Macron's favour. So in two weeks, she has to convince a fifth of the voting population to suddenly swing in her favour, when almost every other major party head (save one...) has basically said, "Yeah, vote for Macron."
 
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