I wish Breath of the Wild had trophies but I'll still play it because it's a Zelda game. There are a lot of people out there that won't though. That's why Nintendo is so far behind. They just don't understand this.
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Anyone else playing Botw and wish for trophies???
- Thread starter EhoaVash
- Start date
I wish Breath of the Wild had trophies but I'll still play it because it's a Zelda game. There are a lot of people out there that won't though. That's why Nintendo is so far behind. They just don't understand this.
WiiRevolution1
Member
While it won't stop me from playing of course, it is really sad the Zelda and Switch in general doesn't have a trophy like system. I hope that atleast Arms and Splatoon 2 have something great in this regard with a built in list atleast.
lol no.
I personally like having trophies in my games, but it's ridiculous to write off a game for them not existing. Zelda has been a blast regardless.
On the flip side though, I find it completely selfish to say things like, "Keep that garbage out of my games". Trophies are not taking away from the experience if you do not care for them. You are only trying to take away from those that do enjoy them, and they do not need to give you an explanation of why to justify that enjoyment.
On the flip side though, I find it completely selfish to say things like, "Keep that garbage out of my games". Trophies are not taking away from the experience if you do not care for them. You are only trying to take away from those that do enjoy them, and they do not need to give you an explanation of why to justify that enjoyment.
In the specific case of that Undertale tweet it's because Undertale uses its gameplay as a criticism of how gamers approach to games, the game actively discourages you from "getting all the possible endings" or even playing the game several play throughs, the "bad" route is based on the fact that you have absolutely no reason to do it, it's impossible to do "by accident" and the only reason you'd do it it's because "you can" and how fucked up it is to take this abhorrent behavior just because it's an option and "you have to 100% the game".
The idea is that people don't feel compelled to try.
An achievement list in undertale would actively encourage people to do multiple play troughs, getting all the endings and basically violate the spirit of the game.
Funnily enough, the story in Undertale can only end when you decide to never play it ever again.
-Mutsukki-
Member
I'm sorry but I also don't feel like understanding people that want confetti thrown for them for playing a game. I also don't think that "There's a lot of people out there" who think like this too. The whole notion is bonkers to begin with, you want some arbitrary digital reward for... playing something that is just supposed to be enjoyable? Playing the game is the reward itself. A little years back we had forgotten this and the industry was going to shit, we're just recovering now thanks to the indie scene getting strong
The point is to enjoy an amazing game. This line of thinking absolutely boggles my mind.
MadraptorMan
Member
To this day I don't get why achievements are a thing or even remotely popular and I am totally fine with Nintendo staying out of the business all together. I think they are pointless.
clay_ghost
Member
Take a screenshot when you achieve something cool. You can even share it.
They don't understand that people apparently rely on participation trophies to outright play games at all? This is a weird thing to cater to.
Again, how did y'all play games before Xbox or whenever achievements became a thing? Did you not play games at all? Did you only play games that marked certain things on save files? Hell, did you record your gameplays? I'm not joking or trying to be an asshole with these questions; this is utter culture shock to me.
I started with NES. I didn't have any of this growing up. We played games because the games were enough. We didn't need validation that we'd shot 200 enemies or found every hidden doo-dad. The bragging rights or the actual unlockable content (I kinda miss this) were enough to keep us satiated. I literally cannot imagine being in a position where I would skip a game or an entire console outright because it wasn't recording my actions.
Like.... wut?
prag16
Banned
You can't tell me numerous games don't pad out play time and "content" via preying on OCD-like tendencies. This design goes hand in hand with the way trophies/achievements systems are vary often structured in those types of games.
"What's the point in even playing without trophies?". Incredibly sad that this is what it has come to for some people.
-Mutsukki-
Member
This is what I do and it make for waaay better memories than trophies (which is why the PS4 is really smart in taking screenshots for you when you get a trophy. Though a lot of the times it's a bit of a mess)
Tarextherex
Banned
The game already feels like that if you want to fully upgrade your armor. Plus equipment is already one of the rare unique rewards available. The ressources available in the game are just there to help you access any area any time, the point isn't to hoard it all. Hunting/fishing is a very shallow part of the game that's isn't even useful, that's why you have merchants to compensate
Mindlessly collecting everything isn't interesting as game design or as a trophy requirement. I thought one of the most engaging trophies to get were the Dark Souls ones: while some require grinding/you need to do multiple playthroughs for the platinum, it still implies you found every meaningful secret about the game. Scenarized events are much more interesting than meanlessly grinding ressources. A reasonable 100% for BOTW would be all shrines/quests/beasts. Pictures if you're really completionist. Anything more is missing the point
TLZ
Banned
Look, I don't want trophies, as some of their trophies are silly fillers that take away from the experience. All I'd want is a completion bar or % instead of trophies. There are games that I've finished that took me many many hours, say for example an Uncharted game, but when I look back at my trophies it just says 20%. That doesn't reflect my completion of the game. 20% you'd look at and think that's too low.
I honestly don't care for these silly "smack a 100 enemies with a tuna in 5 secs" trophies. These should be things done I'm different challenge modes and not part of the main story mode. Too distracting.
I honestly don't care for these silly "smack a 100 enemies with a tuna in 5 secs" trophies. These should be things done I'm different challenge modes and not part of the main story mode. Too distracting.
breakfuss
Member
Been a while since ive engaged in a discussion about trophies/achievements but the OP and some of the responses to it sadden me deeply. Like, really? You need a virtual *ding* in order for a game to feel gratifying? Im so freaking glad Nintendo held their ground in respect to the matter. Keep that shit far away, please.
TLZ
Banned
Like I said in my above post I'm not really into trophies but just a completion bar or %, but I won't lie though that PS ding is pretty satisfying. I wouldn't mind hearing it just once when I've completed the game. Like icing on cake
How could trophies take away from the experience of Breath of the Wild?
Surely it's not the narrative.
It just looks like an open world game with a Zelda theme - regardless of it's quality, I haven't heard of any innovations.
Video games of such design accommodate completion checklists rather well.
Receiving a platinum trophy upon acquiring a Golden poop would be hilariously satisfying for me.
Surely it's not the narrative.
It just looks like an open world game with a Zelda theme - regardless of it's quality, I haven't heard of any innovations.
Video games of such design accommodate completion checklists rather well.
Receiving a platinum trophy upon acquiring a Golden poop would be hilariously satisfying for me.
How have you not heard of any innovations this game has done? It didn't get one of the highest consensuses for no reason.
These threads are fascinating to me.
Because they show that the vast majority of detractors don't understand what achievements actually do for a game. It's not about the "ding" or reward for completing in-game tasks. It's about having a shareable, online "played games" history, something that a Nintendo console will never have for the foreseeable future.
I can check through my XBL gamer tag and say things like "Huh, so I gave up Dark Souls after Lordran, go figure" or "Damn I don't remember beating COD4 on Veteran..."
I mean do people really just gloss over that fact? People are saying "Keep that shit away from my Zelda game". What? It's an OS / account feature. Has nothing to do with Zelda specifically.
Because they show that the vast majority of detractors don't understand what achievements actually do for a game. It's not about the "ding" or reward for completing in-game tasks. It's about having a shareable, online "played games" history, something that a Nintendo console will never have for the foreseeable future.
I can check through my XBL gamer tag and say things like "Huh, so I gave up Dark Souls after Lordran, go figure" or "Damn I don't remember beating COD4 on Veteran..."
I mean do people really just gloss over that fact? People are saying "Keep that shit away from my Zelda game". What? It's an OS / account feature. Has nothing to do with Zelda specifically.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Firstly, you have to demonstrate that a 100% optional achievement system that you can disable negatively affects a game, not us to prove that it cannot.
Secondly, the capacity for a negative result is not exactly a strong justification for elimination. 2D gaming was killed off, artificially, because of 3D gaming. Not because consumers didn't want it, but because companies didn't want it.
Screenshots, replays, and a Nintendo community to share things do the same thing.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I would question the level of engagement, because people in this thread have given more reason than "virtual dings" for why they want achievements.
It's a feature that would actively detract from some games. The whole magic of Breath of the Wild is that going through that game is one discovery after another. Even games that use hidden achievements suffer from them because they indicate to player how many things they can do with a game. I don't want a game telling me what it's limits are, I want to discover them for myself.
The lack of achievements for Nintendo systems is actually only a small part of the problem. For me, at a bare minimum, any console needs:
*shareable played games history (check for PC, Xbox and PlayStation)
*parties and voice chat for multiplayer (check for PC, Xbox and PlayStation)
*consumer friendly DRM, meaning if I own Splatoon 2 on my Switch digitally, and I leave home and visit my friend, I should be able to log into my account and conveniently and hassle-free download my digital copy of Splatoon 2 on someone else's 's console (check for PC, Xbox, and PlayStation)
To me it's a really big deal breaker that the above isn't on any Nintendo console.
*shareable played games history (check for PC, Xbox and PlayStation)
*parties and voice chat for multiplayer (check for PC, Xbox and PlayStation)
*consumer friendly DRM, meaning if I own Splatoon 2 on my Switch digitally, and I leave home and visit my friend, I should be able to log into my account and conveniently and hassle-free download my digital copy of Splatoon 2 on someone else's 's console (check for PC, Xbox, and PlayStation)
To me it's a really big deal breaker that the above isn't on any Nintendo console.
breakfuss
Member
Like I said in my above post I'm not really into trophies but just a completion bar or %, but I won't lie though that PS ding is pretty satisfying. I wouldn't mind hearing it just once when I've completed the game. Like icing on cake
If there was a way for them to implement some sort of universal completetion system I wouldn't be a opposed to it. Although that'd be tricky for the rare game without a defined beginning and end. But the whole trophy thing just has no place here. It just seems to go against the Nintendo ethos, but maybe im just old school lol. I dont mean to come off as shaming people for liking them, but do we really need it in EVERY game?!
Secret Owl
Neo Member
I feel like traditional trophies / achievements would ruin the organic fun, challenge, and discovery of this game's environment and pacing.
Also, the Korok seeds kinda scratch that "go-out-of-your-way-to-complete-this-challenge" itch. Even better, you have to stumble upon them or read the environment to guess where (or what) they could be. I'll take that over a list of explicitly-detailed challenges any day. I would welcome more discovery / challenge systems that are baked into the environment (like the Korok seeds, the compendium, or Shrines.) Perhaps more diversity in the types of challenges you encounter while exploring or completing side-quests would help fill your trophy void.
Another possible solution for those seeking a clear-cut challenges could be some sort of system where players could create their own challenges with the confines of the existing game and share them. It would basically be a system that lets you record something cool you did, then gives you the option of challenging your friends (or the greater community) to do the same thing. Think Mario Kart's "time trails", Mario Maker, or even multiplayer Skate. Maybe there could also be some reward system for sharing or completing difficult challenges. Of coarse, this would have to be implemented early-on in the development of a future Zelda game.
Also, the Korok seeds kinda scratch that "go-out-of-your-way-to-complete-this-challenge" itch. Even better, you have to stumble upon them or read the environment to guess where (or what) they could be. I'll take that over a list of explicitly-detailed challenges any day. I would welcome more discovery / challenge systems that are baked into the environment (like the Korok seeds, the compendium, or Shrines.) Perhaps more diversity in the types of challenges you encounter while exploring or completing side-quests would help fill your trophy void.
Another possible solution for those seeking a clear-cut challenges could be some sort of system where players could create their own challenges with the confines of the existing game and share them. It would basically be a system that lets you record something cool you did, then gives you the option of challenging your friends (or the greater community) to do the same thing. Think Mario Kart's "time trails", Mario Maker, or even multiplayer Skate. Maybe there could also be some reward system for sharing or completing difficult challenges. Of coarse, this would have to be implemented early-on in the development of a future Zelda game.
I think maybe we are on different wave lengths, or maybe I'm just misunderstanding you.
I don't see how screenshots, replays and community to share things can come close to replicating the "online games played history" that achievements and trophies afford someone.
Like this is what I envision for an achievement system on a Nintendo console:
I log into my PC (not my Switch, my PC) and by logging into my account, I can see the following:
*In 2012 I unlocked all the characters in Smash Bros Brawl
*In 2013 I played up to the fifth dungeon of Twilight Princess and then gave up
*In 2014 my friend got 99% completion in Wind Waker but he stopped just shy of collecting all the photographs / figurines
*In 2017, my friend got all 900 or so Korok seeds in Breath of the Wild.
All of that information is consolidated into one gamer's account (or your friend's account, where applicable).
perfectsil
Member
hell no
Screenshots that are taken on the Wii U, and presumably the Switch, are marked by date and time. You can reasonably replicate a game log of your progress if you wanted to; you'd just have to do it of your own volition.
If you're talking about a system-side feature that logs things in the background, that's one thing. However, any such pop-ups or constant logs happening in the game itself would disrupt the experience that BotW offers.
immortald3ath
Member
NO and thank god BOTW doesn't have em.
I agree BOTW was the first game in a long long LONG time that i just enjoyed exploring. I would find myself climbing mpuntains just because. It was wonderful. But if all trophies are secret whats the harm and couldnt it add to the dynamic of "finding" things out and exploring?
Plus i dont fully agree with them changing the way you play. If a game like zelda drops you in and lets you play how you want if the game has trophies and i want to grab them all that's the way i want to play. So is it less a case of play how you want and more of how Nintendo want?
It looks like a quality game, I'll admit that.
I own a Wii U, so I could play it eventually without issues.
Innovation on the other hand, is bullshit.
The closet thing I've seen is how you can interact, but even that would be an exaggeration.
While I don't enjoy them anymore I find a lot of the older Zelda titles more innovative than this one.
Honestly, this doesn't even seem like a Zelda game at all, for better or worse.
If all of the trophies are a complete secret, it's not really telegraphing what you need to do to get them, and in that vain they're pretty pointless, or at least what I would call a bad example of trophies. There has to be some sort of nudge, hint, or direction about at least some trophies in a game to warrant their existence and give players a means to find them, even if it's just the trophy's name, and I feel like that in and of itself betrays the point of BotW.
And they do change the way you play, otherwise they wouldn't be a thing, now would they? xP Trophies psychologically condition players to either want to achieve things, many times those things are completely out of the ordinary or potentially antithetical to the game's rules, in order to earn the satisfaction of the system marking down that you did them, or they simply make you aware that these mostly-pointless challenges are there, and that awareness will change the way you fundamentally see the game as a whole. My feeling is that BotW is not about making you do things just to have it in some checklist that you definitely did it. It's about dropping you in a world with as little modern bullshit as possible to have your own fun. No unnecessary gating, no tons of automation, no tons of markers, and no achievements. It's just you, the game's world, and the encompassing systems. You rely primarily on yourself to make up the quality of your own adventure, not a suggestion list from the developer.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Every time I play I think some smart trophies would encourage some unique gameplay.
The levels of smug arsery in this thread is impressive however.
The levels of smug arsery in this thread is impressive however.
I feel like I've dropped into some insane alternate universe when I read things like this.
A 100% harmless addition that has zero effect on how a game is designed or intended to be played will somehow make games better. Wat.
breakfuss
Member
The point is to use your own damn imagination...
That's completely up to the player.
I don't look at achievement/trophy lists until I finish a game and then I make the decision whether I want to go hunting for them. Why would anyone? That's like glancing at the last few pages of a book before starting it.
I finished Witcher 3 on PS4 and then noticed I was really close to a platinum so I went for it. It was a cool thing to get. I recently finished Arkham Knight on PC, looked at the list, and said "fuck that" to all the AR mission achievements.
Can't see how anyone would disagree with this.
To Far Away Times
Member
The carrot on the stick is the gameplay in BotW.
Dsyndrome
Member
Yet that's what's happening constantly in this thread. Too much effort to disable.
I would say before achievements and trophies became a thing I would play games simply to fave fun, have some timeout, play with others.
Now that they are a thing, if a game doesn't have them and other platforms do it feels lacking. Like I like to mark what I did and when, and whilst I'm saying this I haven't got all achievements for a single game on xbox and I have no platinums on playstation.
When I watch movies it is only a couple of hours and you watch a story, see some acting, etc. It's not a whole lot of your life taken away.
When I read a book I feel like possibly it's improving my english, I'm able to imagine things with more detail, and just become more aware of the world possibly.
If I do something in a game that has no trophies or system wide achievements and I do some great feat or do something that took hours I have nothing to show for it. There's also some games that you play and sap can sap away hours of your time, and sure it may have been fun exploring that world while you were doing it, but there's nothing really to mark that you spent that mass amount of time doing it. Movies don't take ages, and books I feel as if I'm expanding knowledge. I don't have that much free time anymore just to play games just because.
Like I said in my previous post, I would agree 100% (just turn them off), but these damn things are integrated to the point of being unavoidable.
I suppose one could neuter their UI experience (dashboards,UI features etc etc) so they could not see them, but that's just too much. Why would anyone want to do that?
It's nice just to turn on a console and not have to worry about trophies/updates/pop-ups about trophies cluttering my screen. And this is not in-game either, as I have those turned off.
I get people like them, however, but until Sony/Microsoft realize that a simple notification toggle is not enough (some just do not care about trophy culture, and really do not care to have it littering the screens), I'm glad to play a console that doesn't have them. If Nintendo makes a non-intrusive system, them by all means I'll be pro Nintendo-trophies.