Support NeoGAF

[Kagoshima_Luke]

I have actually been hooked on hunting for trophies or achievements in the past, where I would buy games that had a plat over others that I might actually want more. Stupid stuff like that.

The Switch has pretty much snapped me back into reality, because I'm just having fun like the good old days and not being fussed with chasing arbitrary goals, many of which are usually terrible. I kind of prefer time tracking anyway, at this point.

 

[Taliban Stan]

I literally got games twice a year as a kid (birthday and Christmas) and my birthday is in February so there's a long stretch where I had to find new ways of making old games fun again.

Trophies don't do much for me because I always kinda played games in this way. If I like a game, I want to be good at it and I want to find my own way of playing it (probably something overly flashy or that comes off as James Bond suave... like beating a FPS only using a pistol or knife). If something is fun to me then I'll do it. If it's not, I won't.

If something I like to do has a trophy associated with it, that's cool but it's not like I'll never try the thing or I'll stop doing the thing just because there aren't trophies associated with it. Doing the thing is the fun part for me, not the trophy.

What I would actually prefer more than trophies is when everything is tracked like Sleeping Dogs and Burnout Paradise. I super love stuff like that, but that stuff totally plays into like my philosophy on playing games. Trophies not so much. To each, their own though.

 

[Gaspard]

Nah, heck i'm satisfied with the game even though i'm not even 30% done according to the map.

 

[robotrock]

Just mute them. You never have to deal with them if you don't want to.

I think they are great. I can look someone's trophy list on PSN and tell loads about what kind of player they are, what they are into, etc.

I can even tell these things about them if they have the trophy notifications turned off and don't care about them at all.

I don't really mind trophies in general, just think it would have undermined this game specifically

 

[Equanimity]

I don't really mind trophies in general, just think it would have undermined this game specifically

How would trophies undermine this game?

 

[TYRiAX]

OP, get 100% in BotW and then tweet the screenshot.. there you go that's your trophy

 

[2blackcats]

I don't really mind trophies in general, just think it would have undermined this game specifically

Fair enough. I disagree.

You can leave the description blank until the trophy is achieved. Cheaters or people who like to use guides, etc can look them up online.

 

[Bowl0l]

The Korok seed is already a trophy for me.
I wonder when I could collect them all.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

It would have ruined what exactly made the game so special for me. I would have still bought it because it's Zelda but it wouldn't have had the same sense of wonder and adventure if I kept on getting trophies that went "found 5 korok seeds!" That kind of stat tracking is what makes most open world games daunting and intimidating for me to actually enjoy. I've been talking directly about myself with my posts in the thread. I'm not saying it would have ruined the game for you. I don't see what's so hard to understand.

Even reading some of your other posts in this thread, you seem to understand that people are talking about themselves personally:

So I really don't know why you're being so aggressive about this to me.

Apologies if I came off as aggressive, I just get really irritated when there are so many knee-jerk posts like:

No. Don't interrupt me with that trash.

...that seemingly imply the feature has no value at all. And sure, maybe it has no value to them specifically, but a modern day implementation of such a feature would have the ability to be shut off so people on both sides are happy. There's also a discussion to be had as to why it hurts the experience to the point someone would call it "trash", as well as further understanding why others value it and the middle ground of dis/enabling the feature to your liking.

All in all the one sentence dismissals irk me, and I may have read into yours too much/unfairly, apologies.

 

[CriterionDog]

what's wrong with you.

I'm serious.

You're mad that some people want trophies? For some people (myself included) they add more replay value and fun.

I could understand why some people don't want them.

But your attitude, man.

 

[prag16]

Never once thought "I wish this had trophies" while playing BOTW.

Never once have I thought that while playing any game.

I'll never understand trophy/cheevo culture. It is baffling to me. I have the notifications turned off on Origin, Steam, and PS4 because at times the dings are irritating.

 

[fvng]

And it not being there doesn't destroy your experience. I'd argue an achievement list would spoil a lot of what makes botw great, especially as it relies on experimentation for almost every moment of the game. These players may not even see half the games interactions if all they're worried about is what's on the list. Achievements add nothing, as most games already push you to see what's on their lists,and seem to be the participation ribbons of video games.

Trophy lists automatically hide the text of story related trophies. Don't be silly.

If it doesn't impact you then ignore it but what you are advocating is the removal of something someone else might enjoy despite it not impacting you.

They're not participation ribbons, many take a load of effort and preservence and mastery of the game to obtain.

You have written the most ignorant post I've seen on any forum this year.

 

[Cipher Peon]

100000% yes

It hasn't hit me as bad as The Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth+ has, but man I'd kill for some trophies/achievements in BOTW. It definitely has a direct impact on my enjoyment of the game

Yes! Yes! Oh god yes! It would have made the game so much more enjoyable. I've shelved the game after 70 hours because there was no reward in completing things. I would have played the game for another 70 hours hunting down trophies. After completing 90 shrines I was expecting a trophy notification. After unlocking all the towers and revealing the whole map I was expecting to hear a 'ding'. There was nothing. I just can't believe Nintendo wouldn't include trophies in this day and age. So far behind.

I feel the same way this poster does, except sincerely instead of facetiously.

And I wouldn't describe it as "no reward" just "the reward isn't as compelling to me as meta data that improves my experience with a console due to tracking my metrics and having it be comparable with my friends, especially considering the dire lack of any content of the social experience on the Nintendo Switch"

 

[DarknessTear]

I'd like them on the Switch in general, but Nintendo isn't about that life. At the very least, Monolith Soft likes to put achievements in their games.

 

[fvng]

Even if you don't understand the appeal of trophies, what makes even less sense is anyone who want them outright removed from games despite the option to disable notifications.

"I don't like this so no one else should have it!!"

Reeks of total cry baby mentality

 

[atr0cious]

Fair enough. I disagree.

You can leave the description blank until the trophy is achieved. Cheaters or people who like to use guides, etc can look them up online.

There's no point to them if they disable the list before you find them. In that case there are a ton of achievements in botw.

There's also the stuff for completing the mini games, upgrading all the armor, finding all the shrines, killing all the monsters. Achievements are created to keep you engaged in badly designed games because good games will have you coming back regardless of a list.

You have written the most ignorant post I've seen on any forum this year.

Child please get some perspective.

 

[psyfi]

Nah

Honestly, the idea feels totally contradictory to the spirit of the game.

 

[prag16]

Even if you don't understand the appeal of trophies, what makes even less sense is anyone who want them outright removed from games despite the option to disable notifications.

"I don't like this so no one else should have it!!"

Reeks of total cry baby mentality

If you can convince me that achievements never affect game design negatively, then fine. But some people argue that they promote lazy game design and there seems to be evidence supporting the assertion.

 

[aeolustl]

I have only played for a few hours and finally get the glide but I would say this:
I don't want trophies in this game. I don't need the game to tell me I should do what. This game makes me think about what I want to do at this moment. Actually, I am conflicted should I go to the place pointed out by the character (as in the main quest) or just go where ever I want and do whatever I want.

 

[Fitts]

As someone who used to chase platinums, I have no idea why anyone needs this carrot on a stick. Glad I snapped out of it and turned those annoying notifications off. All that time wasted.

 

[Hawk269]

I prefer Achievements versus Trophies, but yes, I sorely miss something like that in BOTW. It has become my most played game in the last few years and there are so many things to do and find having achievements would of been something very welcomed by me.

 

[aBarreras]

i hope never reach the need for achievements or trophies some posters are showing.

 

[Boy Wander]

I prefer Achievements versus Trophies, but yes, I sorely miss something like that in BOTW. It has become my most played game in the last few years and there are so many things to do and find having achievements would of been something very welcomed by me.

How specifically would they improve your enjoyment of the game? I'm genuinely interested because I just don't see the appeal. Is it simply a reinforcement of the fact that you've done something in the game? Is it a virtual pat on the back? Is it about ticking things off a list? I don't get it personally but I'm quite interested in what the appeal is. As an aside, I think Botw gives out so many rewards of its own kind along the way that it's probably the game I think least needs trophies of any kind amongst pretty much all the games I've played in recent years.

 

[bryt]

How specifically would they improve your enjoyment of the game? I'm genuinely interested because I just don't see the appeal. Is it simply a reinforcement of the fact that you've done something in the game? Is it a virtual pat on the back? Is it about ticking things off a list? I don't get it personally but I'm quite interested in what the appeal is. As an aside, I think Botw gives out so many rewards of its own kind along the way that it's probably the game I think least needs trophies of any kind amongst pretty much all the games I've played in recent years.

I like it because it's a neat list of all the things I've done in every game I've ever played. I like to look back on it once in a awhile and evoke some memories. Achievements are a personal thing for me. I don't share/compare it with anyone.

 

[Dsyndrome]

If you can convince me that achievements never affect game design negatively, then fine. But some people argue that they promote lazy game design and there seems to be evidence supporting the assertion.

Where? Show an example where the achievements dictated the gameplay. MMO gameplay design that you'd find in WOW doesn't exist as as a result of the achievements; if anything, it's the other way around.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

What would make it more fun? Doing the same repetitive task to see a little beep and you can compare to your friends about how core you are?

That's all I get out of OS level achievement systems and not my idea of fun.

Not to say games shouldn't have them, but it should be central to the games design and not shoehorned into everything.

BoTW already has systems in place that would go with a trophy system. Finding shrines, upgrading armor, revealing the map through towers, completing quests, and of course korok seeds. It's not like the game doesn't already have these things in place.

I don't need trophies to enhoy a game but are people really so surprised that some people want them for this game? Hearing things like "it would go against the spirit of the game". What does that even mean?

 

[rockx4]

I was very satisfied with my Botw playthrough with no achievements\trophies. In comparison with Persona5, Nier, Horizon, playing Botw was a very different experience. It's the only game where I didn't pull up a list of trophies to watch out for. I just played through it without caring about trophies, and the experience was very liberating. I usually don't care much for trophies but they're still in the corner of my mind when playing most games.

 

[Cramoss]

Fucking hell no, keep that away

I'm not crazy about trophies anymore but trophies would've been at least something instead of the shit you get from most side quests, like I just stopped caring about those because I know the reward is worthless.

And trophies are not?

 

[Soroc]

While there are certainly some titles that have implemented optional objectives arguably for the benefit of trophies(AC1 flag collectibles), there hasn't been a real case where one can show demonstrable proof that trophies have sullied the original design intent of the game's objective or mission statement.

So many lump their arguments into this somewhat baseless claim, presuming that gaming enjoyment is somehow lessened on platforms where they exist? Has there ever been a debate during GotY deliberations where the existence of trophies had somehow played a role in keeping certain titles from nomination or discussion?

Do trophies ever factually mislead anyone from a potential difference of opinion on a game? Can anyone show clinical proof of this?

Are people so incapable of understanding the other merits that trophies offer beyond mere edge-case goals to accomplish? The unique data points and information they provide for both developers and inquisitive players? The "Activity Log" appeal(which Nintendo fans gleefully and hypocritically adore).

I don't know about "demonstrable proof", but for an example of a dev specifically not implementing achievements because they thought it would clash with the themes of the game, look at Undertale:

I don't agree that achievements always take away from the game--when done right they can add to a game--but I believe BotW is similar to undertale in that it encourages the player to play the way they want to play and does not push them towards doing anything they might not want to do.

Yeah I wasn't referring to achievements or achievement systems in general terms, I was just referring to this game specifically. Crayolan definitely explains it better with the comparison.

 

[atr0cious]

"it would go against the spirit of the game". What does that even mean?

Been answered multiple times in the thread:

It's the only game where I didn't pull up a list of trophies to watch out for.

Whether folks want to admit it or not, this is the function of achievements, a cheap walkthrough that lists what to do. BotW is all about experimenting, there's an entire thread on just the thrill of this, a cheevo list will keep these achievement minded players from even trying things because they'll be stuck on the list. There's a reason Nintendo does achievements within their games through stamps and custom moves, it's to keep the player engaged through gameplay not through manipulation of completionist tendencies.

 

[Branduil]

Not even once.

 

[ScientificPizza]

I think trophies are antithetical to the design of breath of the wild

 

[Nepenthe]

Why do you need to tell others why or how they should play a game?

Nowhere in that post did I tell others why or how they should play a game. I asked why do they need trophies to validate the things they do in a game.

How does your satisfaction from discovery matter at all to someone who plays for another reason?

I never said it my enjoyment mattered to anyone else's. I'm asking for people who want trophies plastered into BotW to explain why they need them because, from where I'm standing, trophies don't really do anything. That is why I asked the above question.

What do you lose by those validations being there but able to be hidden?

A game experience that is not interrupted by irrelevant prompts every time I do something it feels it needs to put a participatory gold star on, and a game experience that doesn't goad me into doing anything outside of my own volition.

 

[Dynheart]

Never once did I think of a trophy while playing the game. I have notifications turned off on other systems, as I really do not care about the things. However, it cannot be escaped no matter how much a person tries to put the stuff off to the side, as the trophy system is full ingrained into the UI, the community features, practically everywhere.

Playing ignore the trophy system becomes a hassle at times with these newer systems. I like the fact I can fire up at least one system and not be bothered, whether I'm looking for the damned things or not.

 

[Aspiring]

Yup, the whole time. Dont get me wrong i will go back and wrap it up in all shrines but I would have so much more incentive if they were there. I have no idea why gaf would be all "hell no". It doesn't affect anyone if its there yet gives those who like them some extra enjoyment *shrug*

 

[breadtruck]

Absolutely not.

 

[guyssorry]

I think this is where the real value of trophy/achievements comes in. It acts as a public journal or log entry to how far you or your friend has gotten in a game. It acts as a great icebreaker in learning of particular games with completion rates you've found in common. This includes doing stuff you would have done anyway as a marker of basic progress. Of course there are usually more complex, out-of-the-way trophies to earn as well.

Very true. Good points. It is pretty cool to see if my PSN friends have done something similar (based on trophies). I do think trophies should be included, since they are pretty easily ignored; but, at the same time, I don't care if they are not present. Different perspectives, I guess.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Nope. Makes me wish that people were capable of enjoying games for games instead of enjoying games for epeen.

 

[sfried]

No.

I personally do not care about achievements/trophies.

 

[Thud]

It would ruin the game imo.

 

[Hawk269]

How specifically would they improve your enjoyment of the game? I'm genuinely interested because I just don't see the appeal. Is it simply a reinforcement of the fact that you've done something in the game? Is it a virtual pat on the back? Is it about ticking things off a list? I don't get it personally but I'm quite interested in what the appeal is. As an aside, I think Botw gives out so many rewards of its own kind along the way that it's probably the game I think least needs trophies of any kind amongst pretty much all the games I've played in recent years.

One of the big things is comparing my achievement and achievement progress with friends on Xbox Live. It even ranks you for each achievement in a game, so I think something like that is pretty neat. I am an older gamer and these are like ranking list are like old school arcade top score lists. I also like having a little reward for doing something special in the game...on Xbox One, some of the achievements come with really good concept art or screen shots that you normally would not see.

I know some don't care, but I know for others Achievements/Trophies are some thing fun above and beyond the game itself.

 

[KrakaJak]

They are as much as a reward as you make it out to be....

OCD and achievements is a completely different matter. I would go so far to say that the way achievement systems are implemented is actually hostile to people with OCD and similar mental disorders.

"They are as much as a reward as you make it out to be." discounts the fact that the psychological conditioning designed into the system works on your subconscious mind. An Example:

Your first (ever) achievement probably doesn't mean much to you.
I beat the first level: Ding - Pop-up

Whatever right? But over time, you become conditioned:

I beat the second level: Ding-Pop-up
I beat the third level: Ding-Pop-up
I beat the fourth level: Ding-Pop-up

Every time you feel good about something you've done in the game, you now have the ding-pop-up associated with it. Piggy-backing on your own sense of accomplishment or relief you would naturally have for completing a stage in a video game.

Fifth level: Ding-Pop-up
Sixth Level: Ding-Pop-up
Final Level: Ding-Pop-up

Congratulations, you beat the game on medium. You loved it. You want to play again!

Beat the first level: Nothing

It didn't mean much to you the first time when you got the achievement for that level. But you no longer feel the same about beating the first level. With the association your mind has made with the Ding-pop-up, your subconscious is no longer validating beating the first level as an accomplishment.

So what do you do? Check the achievements list. Already, your behavior has been modified. You would have happily just replayed the single player. Now you are looking at a menu of options you have remaining for the ding-pop-up.



The coercion is a but more subtle than that. But it is coercion, manipulation and conditioning in design and implementation. They are designed to keep you engaged in the platform and ultimately, when the achievements run out, buy more games.

 

[Nepenthe]

Yup, the whole time. Dont get me wrong i will go back and wrap it up in all shrines but I would have so much more incentive if they were there. I have no idea why gaf would be all "hell no". It doesn't affect anyone if its there yet gives those who like them some extra enjoyment *shrug*

A lot of BotW's appeal is how hands-off it is, especially in this era of modern gaming where absolutely everything has to be dotted, marked, made to glow, talked about, signposted, and otherwise given to the player for the sake of ease of difficulty and guidance. BotW instead tosses you into Hyrule and tells you to go fix it, or play in it, with the least amount of hand-holding or back-patting from Papa Nintendo as possible, which aides the feeling that you yourself are on a true-blue adventure. Just about every decision you make in the game is of your own volition, not at the command of a designer, and it gives the moments players have had with the game- the battles, figuring out puzzles and recipes, finding hidden mechanics, experimenting with the physics, engaging with NPCs, or just sitting on top of a mountain and immersing one's self in the audio and visuals- a certain feeling of authenticity that is refreshing.

BotW has a very distinct atmosphere and life to it in that regard that would be utterly infringed upon by unnecessary prompts like achievement pop-ups for arbitrary collections, kills, dungeon and shrine accomplishments, or- at worst- simple things like escaping the Shrine of Resurrection. Imagine that- that moment where Link gets out of the Shrine and runs up the hill, the leitmotif's piano begins stirring, the camera pulls back to reveal the whole of Hyrule, and then *Boop* "ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: FREEDOM! PRESS START TO LEARN MORE!" It would utterly ruin the moment. Hell, people don't even like the fact that the HUD can't be completely free of icons related to health and stamina. I myself can't go back to anything less than the Pro HUD after finally trying it and am almost in the camp of wishing the hearts and stamina meter would go away as well.

Achievements wouldn't "hurt anything" in that they would actually make the game mechanically worse. But the nature of the way they're commonly implemented actively goes against a lot of BotW's intent and the subsequent joy it has wrung from its fans, and I feel some of my most memorable moments and accomplishments with it would be somewhat marred by their inclusion.

 

[fvng]

Child please get some perspective.

You're either incredibly ignorant or deliberately trolling with your little rant there. It's clearly both

 

[KZXcellent]

I wish Nintendo would embrace trophies. They add more to the experience and are a good incentive to play more of the game.

 

[Nosgotham]

i wish there was a checklist for EVERYTHING:

recipes
animals hunted
fish caught
etc.. etc...

and if you filled out a list you received a corresponding armor piece. chefs hat, fishing gear, hunting gear etc...

 

[Danny-Boy]

That's one of the big reasons I don't have a switch yet. The lack of system wide trophies/achievements or whatever Nintendo could call them. Maybe stars?

Anyway I just feel like what's the point of playing games on switch if you have nothing to show for it.

Whereas if I do it elsewhere it will say when I accomplished something with a date. I like knowing what I was able to do in games and when and be able to compare to other players.

It's also not too late for Nintendo to implement them as Sony didn't have them on the launch of ps3.

I understand this. I was asking my brother if he's buying a Switch as he is a Zelda fan and he asked if it had trophies. I replied no. He said 'then what's the point?' I have to agree with him.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

Hmm... no. I'm ok when we have then but I'm also more than ok when we don't. I'm kinda glad the whole fad about them is over, nobody seems to particularly care anymore

I understand this. I was asking my brother if he's buying a Switch as he is a Zelda fan and he asked if it had trophies. I replied no. He said 'then what's the point?' I have to agree with him.

What wh- How.

Why do you even play video games? Do movies give you trophies when you watch them? Or when you read a whole book? This is insane

 

[Wagram]

I collected about half of the Korok Seeds and wanted to end myself.

No chance I would have wasted my time on 900.

 

[Nepenthe]

I understand this. I was asking my brother if he's buying a Switch as he is a Zelda fan and he asked if it had trophies. I replied no. He said 'then what's the point?' I have to agree with him.

This is a sincere question. Do people who think gaming is completely pointless unless you're constantly logged just start playing games with the first Xbox?