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[Kaleinc]

If you can give me ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of trophies or achievements ruining a game or scene, taking into account that the notification can be turned off, I will happily concede. Just one, single instance. That's all I'm asking for.

Give me ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of absence of trophies or achievements ruining a game or scene.


Oh, here's what you asked about.
Spoilers in achievements popping up on friends' activity feed. Can't use overlay, can't use detailed view.

 

[ViolentP]

Give me ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of absence of trophies or achievements ruining a game or scene.

I don't think the argument is of lack of trophies ruining a game but rather potentially increasing the enjoyment of one. If a person enjoys a game less due to lack of trophies, I would argue they've lost sight of why we game to begin with.

Oh, here's what you asked about.
Spoilers in achievements popping up on friends' activity feed. Can't use overlay, can't use detailed view.

This has never happened to me but I imagine if a developer chose to be irresponsible with their trophy titles it could be an issue. This of course would be bad design, not issue with the trophy system itself.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

the lack of " you did X" notification was such a welcome addition.

I also love that the game doesn't tell how many shrines/ korok seed/ stuff you are missing and only shows the % at the end.
I wish every game did this instead of becoming a "progress checklist" like Xenoblade X.

EDIT: if you need achievements to enjoy a game, you need to evaluate why you play games at all.

I don't need achievements to enjoy a game, but they enhance my enjoyment of a game.

 

[TheMoon]

Why so angry?

who's angry?

For those so opposed to achievements, if they were added would you stop buying Nintendo games and systems?

No, that would be dumb as hell.

 

[test_account]

I don't think it's a perfect comparison, but I think it goes into demonstrating why I think it's silly to tell people to ignore systems that may be flawed. If a more perfect comparison is necessary, consider a game that has a built-in option where you could mute the music without also muting the rest of the sound effects? Does that make bad or ill-fitting music okay?

I would say yes. Music is completely subjective, so theres no right or wrong answer to what good music is (there might be a general consensus if something is good or bad of course, but still). If someone dislike the music in a game so much that it effects the experience in a negative way, a solution would be to turn it off. I cant see any reason why someone would force themself to listen to the music if it bothers one that much. Custom soundtrack is also built in PS4, Xbox and PC. People can of course say their opinion about things regardless, saying that the music is great or sucks, but in this senario its about finding solutions to what makes the experience better for yourself.

And I disagree; I do think achievements are part of the game because they are activated by in-game accomplishments. The fact that they are applied later is a distinction I feel doesn't change the core argument in the same way I feel that changing Lynel drops wouldn't really fundamentally change most of BotW's mechanics, although it would have an effect on how people may or may not approach Lynels on average.

I only talked about the game design As mentioned, Zelda (or any game for that matter) would be the exact same game design wise regardless of having trophies or not. So looking at it objectively, the game would be exactly the same regardless in that sense.

Note that I don't think it's wrong for features of games to have a psychological effect on the player. Rather, I think that's the working goal of art- to utilize a medium's tools and theory in order to guarantee specific emotional and behavioral reactions out of an audience. In terms of games, that mainly means trying to guide behavior, and I feel you can pin down a reason for why most mechanics exist in good games. This goes for achievements too, and I honestly felt baffled that people aren't willing to admit that they too affect the player simply because they are optional.

So I don't think mechanics having a psychological effect is wrong. Rather, I think that's inherent; impossible to escape. The question isn't what do we do about those effects, but rather how should we go about making sure anything added to a game- whether or not it's optional- has the intended effect on the player in the context of both communicating the game's mechanics and also upholding a game's artistic intent?

Fair enough. I havnt read every post in this thread, but i was under the impression that achievements was portrayed as something negative.

I actually think that everyone argrees that it can affect people, but rather arguing to those who say that it affects the game in a negative way, that its not something that has to be done. Why force yourself to do something that you dont like?

Well, the game itself in the artistic sense, if you mean how the game is designed, doesnt change regarding achievements, leaderboards or cheatcodes.

In short, I feel there is literally nothing achievement systems do that games weren't already doing disparately. They're little more than reiterative and haven't lived up to any real potential (what if they consistently rewarded you with meta or console-exclusive in-game rewards you could use in the game as well as on your profile? The question of relevance and purpose would still remain, but at least I could see why people would dole out the time to get that sweet-ass Microsoft gun, or even just extra resources). Ultimately, I feel you could abolish the whole system without fundamentally disrupting how games are made and played, because all these systems do is repackage existing incentives and mechanics up into a redundant system that lies on top of plain ol' game design.

Here it seems to me that you're agreeing with the premise how little achievements affect the games themself. Saying that if you remove them, the games themself would be the same. This is probably exactly what people are referring to when they say that achievements are completely optional

And yes, you're absolutely right that the system could be abolished the achievement system without it affecting how games are made and played. This shows that games arent made and designed around achievements, its the other way around. Achievements are designed around the games. Afterall, in-game challenges and such have existed in games before the current achievement systems were implemented, and they still exist today despite the achievement systems being in place. Achievements could be added to every single game. Theres even an emulator that adds achievements to retro games: http://retroachievements.org

You might feel that its redundant, but others doesnt. The main draw for many is having all of this information collected at one place instead of having it on a game by game basis.

I'm also under the impression that it hardly takes much time or resource to implement achievements into a game, so its hardly much of a time waster.

Yeah, i think that the achievement system could be approved upon. I remember when the WiiU was about to launch, i presented an idea that Nintendo could reward people in coins for doing in-game challenges, and these coins could be used for something cool (at the time, maybe tied to Miiverse).

And again, they're 100% optional. If I can turn them off without literally any detrimental effect, how do they then justify themselves as worth existing? They need a hook or a mechanic that gives them a unique purpose, that gives them an effect on games that makes the experience with them mutually exclusive from the experience without, like simple online matchmaking does. They're not paying their own way, so I see no reason why it's bad that Nintendo consoles don't have them. If they're totally ignorable, that's not fundamentally different from being totally useless.

People enjoy doing the challenges and having a record of that, i dont think theres much more to it than that. Saying that achievements are useless or not is also only a matter of opinion, theres no key answer to that. Its what you make of it for your own enjoyment.

It would depend upon the implementation of those statistics. Logging how many Lynels you killed in a vacuum doesn't present a competitive element outside of one you make yourself. Telling me I- and only I- have killed ten Lynels is floating information I can do anything with: I can note it and move on, or I can use it as tracking to kill 100 Lynels as my own self-imposed challenge, which I think fits the spirit and design goals of the game just fine. Compounded information, a list of Lynels everyone playing the game has killed without any indication of individual player percentages, is even more abstract. On the other hand, leaderboards would definitely introduce a competitive element because they rank all players in an easily-accessed system, and I don't think that would be in line with BotW's design.

EDIT: I don't know why I kept using Lynels as references. I guess I'm still on the high of defeating a white one. xD

Well, theres different ways to go about to make the game more interesting, i think we all agree on that. But when we're talking about something thats this subjective, its impossible to come up with a key answer. With most (or all) systems, you have some people who like it, and you have some people that dont like it. Its also impossible to make everyone happy.

But to sum it up, i see that you're not a fan of the current achievement system, which i respect. Its a matter of opinion, after all. Personally, i like the system. I feel that it ads replay value to games and i enjoy doing the challenges that the developers have put in there

 

[Nepenthe]

I hope you don't mind if I mash some quotes and points together because I feel my larger feelings can answer multiple statements:

I would say yes. Music is completely subjective, so theres no right or wrong answer to what good music is (there might be a general consensus if something is good or bad of course, but still). If someone dislike the music in a game so much that it effects the experience in a negative way, a solution would be to turn it off. I cant see any reason why someone would force themself to listen to the music if it bothers one that much. Custom soundtrack is also built in PS4, Xbox and PC. People can of course say their opinion about things regardless, saying that the music is great or sucks, but in this senario its about finding solutions to what makes the experience better for yourself.

I'm less interested in finding solutions to ease temporary annoyances (of which the answer is always "ignore it," which honestly comes across as dismissive) than I am of gaming culture being allowed to discuss the flaws of everything for the sake of actually bettering the medium without being told to "just ignore it." And really, at what point does this advice overextend itself in this context? Since fun is completely subjective and even the act of gaming itself is frivolous and optional, are we just not allowed to critique games anymore since we can literally ignore games that bother us?

I actually think that everyone argrees that it can affect people, but rather arguing to those who say that it affects the game in a negative way, that its not something that has to be done. Why force yourself to do something that you dont like?

Here it seems to me that you're agreeing with the premise how little achievements affect the games themself. Saying that if you remove them, the games themself would be the same. This is probably exactly what people are referring to when they say that achievements are completely optional

And yes, you're absolutely right that the system could be abolished the achievement system without it affecting how games are made and played. This shows that games arent made and designed around achievements, its the other way around. Achievements are designed around the games. Afterall, in-game challenges and such have existed in games before the current achievement systems were implemented, and they still exist today despite the achievement systems being in place. Achievements could be added to every single game. Theres even an emulator that adds achievements to retro games: http://retroachievements.org

Again, it's not about forcing myself to do something. It's about discussing the ramifications of an option on the game when it's turned on. Those ramifications exist whether or not I personally allow them on, in the same way achievements themselves exist even if I don't/am unable to actually purchase and play any games with achievements in them.

Regardless, my point is, if achievements have no effect on the game as per their fans' argument, why were people insisting in this topic that Breath of the Wild and by extension Nintendo need to have them, to the point where people admitted that they won't even buy Nintendo products because of this? Describing something as a need inherently asserts a usefulness or objective benefit, but so far when put to the task of answering what in the world that objective benefit or usefulness really is, no one has been able to demonstrate it because- as you and others have constantly admitted- achievements are totally subjective and optional, so the point is that there actually is no objective benefit or usefulness with which to answer the question. And yet the insistence that Nintendo and BotW needed to have them has persisted.

It's cognitive dissonance: Either achievements can be gone and pro-achievement people will actually not lose anything because achivements have no effect on the game (and thus the entire defensiveness of the pro-achievement side in this thread was a complete exercise in futility), or they do have an effect on the game that pro-achievement people perceive as beneficial, an admittance which automatically opens up the door to people being able to consider them detrimental or useless, determinations which at that point can't be dismissed with "just ignore it," at least not without receiving the charge in turn that pro-achievement people are potentially making games worse in the long run for nothing more than the sake of their own enjoyment. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

You might feel that its redundant, but others doesnt. The main draw for many is having all of this information collected at one place instead of having it on a game by game basis.

Then...why not just record challenges? Why do you need the notifications, trophies, and other bells and whistles?

Yeah, i think that the achievement system could be approved upon. I remember when the WiiU was about to launch, i presented an idea that Nintendo could reward people in coins for doing in-game challenges, and these coins could be used for something cool (at the time, maybe tied to Miiverse).

Well, that would be one way to improve them- for achievements to actually earn you tangible rewards either in-game or system side. But thus far, most of them don't- most people in this thread have said most games don't give you anything for earning any achievements, much less 100%. It's literally nothing more than a tally of completely arbitrary tasks in the game, which I still say can exist without a system-side client that influences you to do either tedious or redundant shit for the sake of having access to this information. I would relate it to the problem with collectibles- developers have observed that people tend to hate them the most when they don't actually have any effect or reward on the game itself, that they're just there for the sake of being there. In that vain, achievement systems are basically the DK64 of modern gaming. xP

People enjoy doing the challenges and having a record of that, i dont think theres much more to it than that. Saying that achievements are useless or not is also only a matter of opinion, theres no key answer to that. Its what you make of it for your own enjoyment.

Well, theres different ways to go about to make the game more interesting, i think we all agree on that. But when we're talking about something thats this subjective, its impossible to come up with a key answer. With most (or all) systems, you have some people who like it, and you have some people that dont like it. Its also impossible to make everyone happy.

Well, I think people should be able to underscore their opinions with some level of objectivity, something you can point to that everyone can universally observe even if they still disagree with the conclusion derived from that objectivity. "I like this thing because of x, y, and z." Otherwise, both sides are indeed equivalent in veracity, which means the moment pro-achievement people started firing back at the overwhelming sentiment that BotW didn't need achievements and getting pissed off about it was the moment that one side became more equal than the other.

But to sum it up, i see that you're not a fan of the current achievement system, which i respect. Its a matter of opinion, after all. Personally, i like the system. I feel that it ads replay value to games and i enjoy doing the challenges that the developers have put in there

Well, I honestly don't mind if people like achievements. Differences in preferences don't harm me, and I certainly don't really feel the need to crusade on taking them out of the games that have them. However, it's nice in return to have the courtesy of being respected for preferring some particular gaming experiences without them. x3

 

[EBreda]

I personally use achievements as two things: first, as a way to know what my friends have been up to. It can be weeks or months and I'll check some friend's profile and see what he or she has been playing and in what capacity (competitively for instance if I see they have been getting most multiplayer achievements , or maybe in a relaxed way if I see he/she is taking time to go through normal ones).

Secondly, as a personal log of sorts. I like being able to check my history , remember what was I up to in,say, 2010, or checking if I played such and such game near release date back in the day. It works pretty well. For instance, when BO2 became backcompat I was sure I had 1000g on it, went check it and in fact I had not played it whatsoever, which in turn made me buy it to try.

So yeah, achievements can work for some (apparently, for most) and the wishes to have it completely erased from every game ever as if it detracts from something is just (imo) inconceivable. Disabling notifications means you won't ever be bothered by it.

If Nintendo implemented some sort of achievement I would definitively consider buying more stuff there. Not because I care about my virtual penis size , but because of the stuff I mentioned and because I think most devs have pretty good ideas about challenges.

 

[test_account]

I hope you don't mind if I mash some quotes and points together because I feel my larger feelings can answer multiple statements:

No worries, i did the same

I'm less interested in finding solutions to ease temporary annoyances (of which the answer is always "ignore it," which honestly comes across as dismissive) than I am of gaming culture being allowed to discuss the flaws of everything for the sake of actually bettering the medium without being told to "just ignore it." And really, at what point does this advice overextend itself in this context? Since fun is completely subjective and even the act of gaming itself is frivolous and optional, are we just not allowed to critique games anymore since we can literally ignore games that bother us?

Sure, as i mentioned, people can say their opinion regardless. With the music example, i just wanted to say that its basically something that you cant do anything about. Surely people can discuss things around it if they dont like the music, but they cant demand that the developer makes different music for them. Then people have the choice to do something about it or not. Personally, i find it better to focus on the solution in those cases, what could be done to make things more enjoyable given the current situation. I feel its the same with achievements/trophies. They're unlikely to be removed anytime soon, so what can you do if you feel that they interfere with the gameplay?

Again, it's not about forcing myself to do something. It's about discussing the ramifications of an option on the game when it's turned on. Those ramifications exist whether or not I personally allow them on, in the same way achievements themselves exist even if I don't/am unable to actually purchase and play any games with achievements in them.

Hm, then i dont understand what the issue is to be honest. If its not about feeling forced to do something and trophies being frivolous stuff as you mentioned (basically meaning that theres no pressure in doing it), and one thinks that its really boring to do a challenge in-game, and its possible to turn off the notifications so you wont see anything to the achievement system while playing. Where exactly is the issue? What ramification does it have on the game?

Regardless, my point is, if achievements have no effect on the game as per their fans' argument, why were people insisting in this topic that Breath of the Wild and by extension Nintendo need to have them, to the point where people admitted that they won't even buy Nintendo products because of this? Describing something as a need inherently asserts a usefulness or objective benefit, but so far when put to the task of answering what in the world that objective benefit or usefulness really is, no one has been able to demonstrate it because- as you and others have constantly admitted- achievements are totally subjective and optional, so the point is that there actually is no objective benefit or usefulness with which to answer the question. And yet the insistence that Nintendo and BotW needed to have them has persisted.

I'm pretty sure that the arguement is a repsonse to those who say that achievements is such a horrible thing. Also that the arguement is that it doesnt interfere with the game design at all, not that it doesnt have any effect at all. Those who like achievements would agree that it has a positive effect, otherwise achievements would indeed be rather pointless.

Its basically impossible to put forward an objective arguement why achievements is a benefit because this is a matter of taste. I mean, i could give examples like it ads replay value to a game and its fun to do the challenges, which would be a fact because many people feel this way. But then one can counter this with "i disagree that it ads replay value and i find it boring to do most of the challenges", which is also a fact because other people feel this way, and then we're on to being subjective.

It's cognitive dissonance: Either achievements can be gone and pro-achievement people will actually not lose anything because achivements have no effect on the game (and thus the entire defensiveness of the pro-achievement side in this thread was a complete exercise in futility), or they do have an effect on the game that pro-achievement people perceive as beneficial, an admittance which automatically opens up the door to people being able to consider them detrimental or useless, determinations which at that point can't be dismissed with "just ignore it," at least not without receiving the charge in turn that pro-achievement people are potentially making games worse in the long run for nothing more than the sake of their own enjoyment. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Why cant people ignore it? If you turn off the notification, its basially like the system isnt there. You wont see it or notice it while playing a game. If someone feel that they have to do it because its available, then its more a case of a personal issue i'd say. I'm not trying to diss people who feel this way, but in that case, i get it at least. I get that some people might feel that they interfere with the game a bit, but i think its possible to practice on that, so that it doesnt become an issue.

To say that pro-achievement people are making games worse in the long run applies to the con-achievement people as well. Those who want the system removed for the own enjoyment are also making the games worse in the long run, depending on who you ask. This is a two way street.

Then...why not just record challenges? Why do you need the notifications, trophies, and other bells and whistles?

On Playstation, the trophies are seperated into difficulty catgories (bronze, silver, gold or platinum). That ads to the record. Microsoft simply has a pool of points. Notifications are optional. Many people enjoy the bells and whistles. I'm one of them, not gonna lie I can perfectly play and enjoy other games that dont have achievements as well.

Well, that would be one way to improve them- for achievements to actually earn you tangible rewards either in-game or system side. But thus far, most of them don't- most people in this thread have said most games don't give you anything for earning any achievements, much less 100%. It's literally nothing more than a tally of completely arbitrary tasks in the game, which I still say can exist without a system-side client that influences you to do either tedious or redundant shit for the sake of having access to this information. I would relate it to the problem with collectibles- developers have observed that people tend to hate them the most when they don't actually have any effect or reward on the game itself, that they're just there for the sake of being there. In that vain, achievement systems are basically the DK64 of modern gaming. xP

Sure, it can exist without being system-wide, but being system-wide make it so much easier to keep track, in my opinion.

Well, I think people should be able to underscore their opinions with some level of objectivity, something you can point to that everyone can universally observe even if they still disagree with the conclusion derived from that objectivity. "I like this thing because of x, y, and z." Otherwise, both sides are indeed equivalent in veracity, which means the moment pro-achievement people started firing back at the overwhelming sentiment that BotW didn't need achievements and getting pissed off about it was the moment that one side became more equal than the other.

I havnt read all the posts in this thread, so i cant say too much about that, but i think people are getting angry when people say how horrible something is that they like. Thats not unusual, i think everyone gets that to a certain degree.

Well, I honestly don't mind if people like achievements. Differences in preferences don't harm me, and I certainly don't really feel the need to crusade on taking them out of the games that have them. However, it's nice in return to have the courtesy of being respected for preferring some particular gaming experiences without them. x3

Thats fine All games doesnt need it, i agree, but i think they can extend the replay value for certain games, at least for me.

 

[captain_skyhawk]

I can just see it now

-Kill 10000 bokoblins
-kill 20 enemies by dropping bombs on them from the sky
-glide 1 million km
-survive in the cold without armor for 1 hour
-craft 50 potions, elixirs etc
-throw 20 weapons

ya, no thanks. So few games have decent trophies that aren't either grinds or just stupidly difficult that I can't see them coming up with anything compelling for this game anyways.

 

[Chitown B]

It's cognitive dissonance: Either achievements can be gone and pro-achievement people will actually not lose anything because achivements have no effect on the game (and thus the entire defensiveness of the pro-achievement side in this thread was a complete exercise in futility), or they do have an effect on the game that pro-achievement people perceive as beneficial, an admittance which automatically opens up the door to people being able to consider them detrimental or useless, determinations which at that point can't be dismissed with "just ignore it," at least not without receiving the charge in turn that pro-achievement people are potentially making games worse in the long run for nothing more than the sake of their own enjoyment. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Disagree. You can have achievements in a game and have notifications turned off - and not even realize what particular things caused them to pop. So you can have your cake and eat it too. And you can then choose whether to look at them or not, without them altering the gameplay.

 

[Chitown B]

I can just see it now

-Kill 10000 bokoblins
-kill 20 enemies by dropping bombs on them from the sky
-glide 1 million km
-survive in the cold without armor for 1 hour
-craft 50 potions, elixirs etc
-throw 20 weapons

ya, no thanks. So few games have decent trophies that aren't either grinds or just stupidly difficult that I can't see them coming up with anything compelling for this game anyways.

Collect all outfits. Upgrade outfit to 4 stars. Find all faeries. Beat the game without clearing any dungeons. Beat all 120 shrines. Etc. There are things already built into the game that are useful towards achievements. You're being obtuse.

 

[KingBroly]

I think Trophies would ruin the game, honestly. I set my own goals, I didn't need a Virtual Trinket to tell me what I needed to do.

 

[DanielJr82]

I honestly do not miss achievements in Zelda.

 

[levyjl1988]

Achievements have ruined games for me. It was an interesting concept and eventually I found it to be a chore and now a nuisance. Achievements should be outed entirely. If compared it's just a way for the player of gauging progress of another individual, that's about it. My friends would rather be jealous over a piece of loot in game than an achievement they bothered to go out of their way for.

 

[Chitown B]

I think Trophies would ruin the game, honestly. I set my own goals, I didn't need a Virtual Trinket to tell me what I needed to do.

if you don't need it, then it wouldn't ruin the game. you can just ignore them and/or turn them off.

 

[test_account]

I think Trophies would ruin the game, honestly. I set my own goals, I didn't need a Virtual Trinket to tell me what I needed to do.

If i gave a list of challenges to you, and offered 10 cent for each goal that you completed, would that ruin the game for you or would you simply ignore it if you found the challenges boring and set your own goals instead?

Achievements have ruined games for me. It was an interesting concept and eventually I found it to be a chore and now a nuisance. Achievements should be outed entirely. If compared it's just a way for the player of gauging progress of another individual, that's about it. My friends would rather be jealous over a piece of loot in game than an achievement they bothered to go out of their way for.

How did they ruin games for you?

 

[fvng]

if you don't need it, then it wouldn't ruin the game. you can just ignore them and/or turn them off.

/thread

also i would have completely missed cainhurst castle in bloodborne if it wasn't for the trophy set guiding me towards secrets i might have overlooked, and that secret boss fight in nier automata? would have never known that existed.

 

[Cincaid]

I love trophies, but I had no idea some were so extremely against them. I think the solution on PS4 is great: turn off the notifications if they bother you so much. I also find statements like "I prefer my Switch because it lacks a trophy system" just as weird as the "I won't play a game that doesn't have trophies". Both are just as black and white as the other, why not try and compromise instead of hurling insults? With a toggle on the trophy notifications it's the best of both worlds.

I really wonder how some of you would react if Nintendo one day implemented a trophy system.

 

[levyjl1988]

If i gave a list of challenges to you, and offered 10 cent for each goal that you completed, would that ruin the game for you or would you simply ignore it if you found the challenges boring and set your own goals instead?



How did they ruin games for you?

Time sensitive achievements during events, look at Overwatch. Cannot complete them.
Online Games that have been taken offline. Cannot complete them.
Achievements look like a damn list and ruined collectables and enforced bad collection purposes. Example: Alan Wake and its Thermoses, it served no purpose other than for serving achievements. It ruined pacing and subtracted itself from immersion. There's many poor examples where the games were simply designed around achievements and it become more than ever frustrating.

 

[kunonabi]

Collect all outfits. Upgrade outfit to 4 stars. Find all faeries. Beat the game without clearing any dungeons. Beat all 120 shrines. Etc. There are things already built into the game that are useful towards achievements. You're being obtuse.

I did all that garbage and none of it is any more satisfying than the junk he listed.

 

[Melchiah]

I think that actually could have ruined the game for me

You can turn off the notifications for trophies, and never even notice they're there. So, it couldn't have ruined anything.

 

[test_account]

Time sensitive achievements during events, look at Overwatch. Cannot complete them.
Online Games that have been taken offline. Cannot complete them.
Achievements look like a damn list and ruined collectables and enforced bad collection purposes. Example: Alan Wake and its Thermoses, it served no purpose other than for serving achievements. It ruined pacing and subtracted itself from immersion. There's many poor examples where the games were simply designed around achievements and it become more than ever frustrating.

Well, here you list things that can be faulty with an achievement systems for those who like doing the challenges and collecting the trophies/achievements. I was under the impression that you didnt like doing these challenges and therefor wanted the systems to be removed. If you dont like the challenges, i was wondering why you would do them in the first place if they affect your gameplay experience in a negative way.

Online games that have been taken offline cant be played regardless though, so having achievements cant ruin those games.

I agree that there are some tedious achievements, but i cant see it ruining the game itself. I can see if for trophy hunters that want that 100%, but are annoyed by trophies that are either really hard to get, requires a lot of boring grinding.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

Nah, Achievements/Trophies are the console gaming equivalent of the sparkly fanfare that phone games give you to feed the lizard part of your brain into thinking that you're making some sort of progress when in reality they're meaningless.

This. And I'm a trophy whore.

Be lying if I said I don't wish I could play the game on my PS4, but it's nice to play a game where you aren't worried about crossing addicting challenges off some checklist every now and then.