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[chrominance]

Man, uh, Haru on this game got mad rushed. Just beat the game but holy cow that pacing was rough. Felt like a first draft at times.

Only played P4 Golden version, is there any likelihood a hypothetical Crimson version might be able to tweak the scenario enough to give breathing room? I accept that we will always have a Genkidama/Tinkerbell ending, but more time to establish Haru's character and deal with traitorous Akechi would be much appreciated...

(Morgana setting up the only thing approaching a sequel/spin-off hook, I see ya.)

I kind of don't think so, not without a significant reworking of the plot (P4 Golden at least fits everything inside the existing timeline). That's why I think if there is a Crimson, I hope it's something more along the lines of what they did with Devil Survivor 2: Record Breaker, where there's a second campaign that basically does the first one over again, but with a few things changed that cause the scenario to take a different path.

 

[PK Gaming]

What was your final team in the game? Ryugi, Haru and Makoto was my team for the last segment and final boss. Morgana and Ann got some of the least play, Yusuke finally shined when I fought Shido.


Yoshitsune is fucking broken, hassou tobi shat all over the archangels and the Grail's mecha form.

Ryuji / Ann / Makoto

Ryuji and Ann are just silly with Charge/Concentrate. Makoto's Marakukaja and Debilitate from Joker makes it next impossible to actually die to endgame bosses. Definitely going to play through those fights again without cheesing them, heh.

 

[The Silver]

I probably would've used Ann more in the end game if Yoshi didn't shit over everything, I barely even use my newly fused Satan.....

 

[KingDirk]

I kind of don't think so, not without a significant reworking of the plot (P4 Golden at least fits everything inside the existing timeline). That's why I think if there is a Crimson, I hope it's something more along the lines of what they did with Devil Survivor 2: Record Breaker, where there's a second campaign that basically does the first one over again, but with a few things changed that cause the scenario to take a different path.

I guess I was kind of hoping for a significant reworking of the plot--I felt like there was a lot of potential there but after a strong start it plateaued for a bit and then got reeeeeeally rocky. Like, I dunno. For a game that had so much development it still ended up feeling rushed and it bums me out. What you're describing sounds nice, though--like, I would love a cat-and-mouse game with Akechi if you'd figured him out sooner or something. Akechi (prior to his "HEY GUYS I'M CRAZY ALSO tragic face turn" scene) was much more compelling than Shido, who (maybe it's just localization) seemed just generically evil.

Also, man did this game have JRPG final boss syndrome.

 

[Antiwhippy]

4 and 5 definitely did.

3 did a much better job integrating the final boss throughout the story.

 

[Papercuts]

Like really, speaking of anime, the game could be better if it actually takes more cues from death note (before it went to shit).

That'd be cool. I got tons of Death Note vibes while I played the game which was cool.

 

[Drkirby]

So was anyone fooled by Akechi? Dude wore that Light Yagami influence on his sleeve, though I don't think the game was ever really trying to fool you on who the traitor was, the cast themselves saw through his shit.

I was. After purposely getting the bad ending from selling my friends out, I thought the Akechi that shot me was an imposter. Did the proper anwser, found out that nope, he was real and actually did betray me.

The entire final boss section felt a bit rushed. The entire palace thing never got a good explanation ether IMO, and I kind of wonder if there was supposed to be more connections between Shido's stuff and Mementos (The guys he was with talked about expanding operations worldwide, which kind of sounds like they were responsible for the Holy Grail forming). I know there is value in not revealing everything in detail, but there is a ton of stuff about Wakaba's Research, her relation with Shido, how Akechi operated, that never get explained, and makes it all feel kinda irrelevant.

The overall plot just isn't that fulfilling. The stuff leading up Shido was really good, but the ending felt disjointed from the leadup. Like, having Shdio just be the big boss would have likely been more fulfilling than what we got.

Also the main character being admitted to the high school was never given a good explanation. Why did the Principal even accept him? I thought it would have had to do with Shido and the Principal maybe trying to have some sort of trump card, but it really seems like he had no damn clue about the MC's dealings with Shido.

 

[Jintor]

4 and 5 definitely did.

3 did a much better job integrating the final boss throughout the story.

yes and no... the themes yes, the 'character' etc not really

 

[Autoignition]

ugggh...Futaba telling Akechi "it doesnt matter when you start over", like seriously, fuck this guy. Futaba and Haru especially shouldnt be offering him a second chance. I mean for fucks sake, he fully admits that he wasnt really working for Shido, he was doing all this shit of his own accord just for "Goro Akechi-kun's Revenge". Every death is more his fault than Shido's

This is just downright unfair to say. Here's a list of things to consider about Akechi:

• Bastard children of high profile people have shitty, shitty lives in Japan. Like, seriously, I'm tired of people on this board like, "oh boo hoo Akechi your dad never loved you so what." Bastard children in Japan deal with awful systemic oppression. It affects their abilities to get jobs, to get married, and hell, some of them are never even given a proper burial. It ruins your entire life from the second you're born. And if I was shithead Shido's oops baby in a society like that? That would fuck me up, too. Especially considering...
• Shido takes full responsibility for Akechi being the way he was and outright tells the gang that Akechi pretty much wasn't out to hurt people with his persona before Shido manipulated him.
• Akechi was awoken to his persona powers at age 15 and didn't have a Morgana to tell him that there was another way of dealing with people's palaces other than killing the shadow. He went through two years of causing mental shutdowns before meeting the MC and finding this out.
• Not only was Akechi super young and alone when he woke to his powers, but Yaldabaoth -- a fucking GOD -- was working (in addition to Shido) to groom him to be Joker's foil. Yaldabaoth gave Akechi the power to give people psychotic episodes, whereas he gave Joker the power to change people's hearts for the better. This was done intentionally, and Akechi never knew. Hell, Joker never knew until Caroline and Justine were able to wake the fuck up and remember that they used to be Lavenza.

Like for fuck's sake. I'm not going to sit here and scream GORO AKECHI DID NOTHING WRONG, but to say that it's entirely his fault and he was making conscious, rational decisions the entire time and wasn't an actual literal child who was groomed by a fucking God, a shitty illegitimate father, and a ridiculously oppressive social system in the country at large -- and that he's somehow more at fault than the adult in charge -- is just outrageous.

 

[Sub_Level]

Stop posting here Goro. You're not fooling anyone but yourself.

 

[KingDirk]

yes and no... the themes yes, the 'character' etc not really

Like, thematically the final boss makes sense in 5...in that Yaldaboath is literally just stating the theme of the game. I think "Igor" should have been more of an active mentor/influence, though. While there is a personal connection of sorts between Shido and the protagonist, I think it would have served the game better to have "Igor" be an adult (of sorts) that you had placed your faith in. Also would have relied less on familiarity with previous Persona/SMT games to have an impact.

 

[Astral]

^ Rivers in the Desert is so, sooooo good.

I need to listen to this again as soon as I get home from work because all I've been hearing in my head when I try to sing it is Smooth Criminal.

 

[SENPAIatLARGE]

When are we going to get a villain who can summon as many personas as the hero? Akechi got gimped by fake Igor seeing how he only got two personas.

 

[The Silver]

So what the hell were the shadow operatives doing while the phantom thieves became famous worldwide and Tokyo was taken over? What a bunch of chumps, Mitsuru should be fired for this gross negligence.

 

[Antiwhippy]

yes and no... the themes yes, the 'character' etc not really

It's integrated much better than

Spoiler

random gas station attendant

and "the only thing seemed different is that the jp voice actor died"

Granted i actually enjoy how they use that to make a twist in the meta sense.

 

[Marmaladefire]

I think when you're making the 6th entry in a series, you get to rely on longstanding lore and player expectation to drive the plot a little. There's a lot more wrong in the velvet room then just Igor's voice acting. The antagonism of Igor and the twins, being stuck behind bars, executions, Igor not doing the fusing, not making the deal or getting the key, etc

 

[Drkirby]

I would have likely been happy with just some stuff that pointed to the Metaverse research and the efforts to expand it for worldwide use being the direct cause of the Holy Grail forming. Then at least it could be linked back to Shido. The two antagonists having no real relation to each other, and the final boss coming into the picture the last 1/10th of the game just makes it feel rushed.

 

[CrimsonFist]

So what the hell were the shadow operatives doing while the phantom thieves became famous worldwide and Tokyo was taken over? What a bunch of chumps, Mitsuru should be fired for this gross negligence.

Fighting bears apparently

 

[Guess Who]

I think when you're making the 6th entry in a series, you get to rely on longstanding lore and player expectation to drive the plot a little.

Hell, there are no less than 3 major subplots (Morgana, Akechi, and Igor) that are all specifically designed to play on your past knowledge of the series. Morgana and Akechi are even more specifically designed to play on your knowledge of P4 in particular.

 

[Supermanisdead]

Playing this game and then looking through Persona 4 again made me realize the cast of this game are, for the most part, just nicer people.

The core group in 4 (MC, Yosuke, Yukiko and Chie) were such a mean girls clique. And the game took a lot of opportunities to make fun of people like Hanako and Kanji. It always came off as just a group of ignorant bullies.

But in 5, aside from Ryuji being a huge dick to Morgana after Palace 4, I never felt like any other student, party member or NPC, was the constant butt of mean jokes. Ryuji was even nice to Mishima.

Hanako was really the ugliest part of P4 for me along with Yosukes homophobia. The writers had no qualms about body shaming and it's not even under the guise of "haha they really are close friends underneath it all!" like they pull with Kanji.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I think when you're making the 6th entry in a series, you get to rely on longstanding lore and player expectation to drive the plot a little.

I also think that it's also about time they switch it up.

4 and 5 are both iterations of the story structure of 3 with variation in themes but both still can't execute certain aspects as well.

 

[PK Gaming]

This is just downright unfair to say. Here's a list of things to consider about Akechi:

• Bastard children of high profile people have shitty, shitty lives in Japan. Like, seriously, I'm tired of people on this board like, "oh boo hoo Akechi your dad never loved you so what." Bastard children in Japan deal with awful systemic oppression. It affects their abilities to get jobs, to get married, and hell, some of them are never even given a proper burial. It ruins your entire life from the second you're born. And if I was shithead Shido's oops baby in a society like that? That would fuck me up, too. Especially considering...
• Shido takes full responsibility for Akechi being the way he was and outright tells the gang that Akechi pretty much wasn't out to hurt people with his persona before Shido manipulated him.
• Akechi was awoken to his persona powers at age 15 and didn't have a Morgana to tell him that there was another way of dealing with people's palaces other than killing the shadow. He went through two years of causing mental shutdowns before meeting the MC and finding this out.
• Not only was Akechi super young and alone when he woke to his powers, but Yaldabaoth -- a fucking GOD -- was working (in addition to Shido) to groom him to be Joker's foil. Yaldabaoth gave Akechi the power to give people psychotic episodes, whereas he gave Joker the power to change people's hearts for the better. This was done intentionally, and Akechi never knew. Hell, Joker never knew until Caroline and Justine were able to wake the fuck up and remember that they used to be Lavenza.

Like for fuck's sake. I'm not going to sit here and scream GORO AKECHI DID NOTHING WRONG, but to say that it's entirely his fault and he was making conscious, rational decisions the entire time and wasn't an actual literal child who was groomed by a fucking God, a shitty illegitimate father, and a ridiculously oppressive social system in the country at large -- and that he's somehow more at fault than the adult in charge -- is just outrageous.

This is exactly why i'm okay with the Phantom Thieves sympathizing with him in the end. They can fully relate to being fucked over by corrupt adults, and he was pretty much given the worse deal out of anyone.

There's no rational reason for sympathizing with him, but there's definitely an emotional one.

EDIT:

[*] Akechi was awoken to his persona powers at age 15 and didn't have a Morgana to tell him that there was another way of dealing with people's palaces other than killing the shadow. He went through two years of causing mental shutdowns before meeting the MC and finding this out.

This moment is so much sadder in retrospect

A part of him really wanted to be a part of the Phantom Thieves

 

[Marmaladefire]

Playing this game and then looking through Persona 4 again made me realize the cast of this game are, for the most part, just nicer people.

The core group in 4 (MC, Yosuke, Yukiko and Chie) were such a mean girls clique. And the game took a lot of opportunities to make fun of people like Hanako and Kanji. It always came off as just a group of ignorant bullies.

But in 5, aside from Ryuji being a huge dick to Morgana after Palace 4, I never felt like any other student, party member or NPC, was the constant butt of mean jokes. Ryuji was even nice to Mishima.

Hanako was really the ugliest part of P4 for me along with Yosukes homophobia. The writers had no qualms about body shaming and it's not even under the guise of "haha they really are close friends underneath it all!" like they pull with Kanji.

Im' going to have to agree with you for the most part. Naoto, Rise,Kanji and Nanako can all be pretty great, but the rest of the cast are terrible people.

I also think that it's also about time they switch it up.

4 and 5 are both iterations of the story structure of 3 with variation in themes but both still can't execute certain aspects as well.

What in P5 doesn't improve on P3? No one knows what P6 will look like right now, but I highly doubt that the whole formula will be a 180. Persona is the only JRPG of its kind, with all the good and bad that entails.Throwing the whole structure away isn't the way to go.

 

[Autoignition]

This is exactly why i'm okay with the Phantom Thieves sympathizing with him in the end. They can fully relate to being fucked over by corrupt adults, and he was pretty much given the worse deal out of anyone.

There's no rational reason for sympathizing with him, but there's definitely an emotional one.

EDIT:

This moment is so much sadder in retrospect

A part of him really wanted to be a part of the Phantom Thieves

Yeah, this is basically where I'm at, too. IRL of course I would like nothing more than to see a kid like Akechi locked up forever and ever and kept the hell away from society, but in the context of the game, I feel awful for him. He's the perfect example of what any one of them could have turned into if they didn't have each other, and Yusuke even says as much. Haru and Futaba both have the grace and the wisdom to see in the end that Shido's really the one at fault, even if Akechi was technically the gunman who pulled the trigger, and that just twists the knife in my own heart.

When Akechi tells Joker that he wishes they could've met a few years earlier, I really believed him. I don't believe that Akechi got any real joy out of what he was doing, and going through NG+, there are specific moments where he's demonstrably bothered by some of the things the crew is saying to him, if only because his life would be so much different (and better) if he'd known any of it years ago.

 

[Guess Who]

This moment is so much sadder in retrospect

A part of him really wanted to be a part of the Phantom Thieves

Just seeing screenshots from other people, I've realized an awful lot of Akechi's dialogue takes on a different tone when you know what his deal is. Should be interesting whenever I get around to NG+ in a hundred years.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Im' going to have to agree with you for the most part. Naoto, Rise,Kanji and Nanako can all be pretty great, but the rest of the cast are terrible people.




What in P5 doesn't improve on P3? No one knows what P6 will look like right now, but I highly doubt that the whole formula will be a 180. Persona is the only JRPG of its kind, with all the good and bad that entails.Throwing the whole structure away isn't the way to go.

Now i didn't say that persona 5 isn't an overall improvement of the formula, because it is, but again, it is a formula. That's why the ending didn't have as much of an impact for me. I just thought "yes yes, explain why you won't accept the negative manifestation of humanity again, yes yes, mc true persona awaken to seal it away, GOT IT. Happy days." I was just more bemused than anything at how predictable it was.

And the thing i honestly think 5 does worse than 4 and 3 is that it makes us a lot less invested in the character's persona awakening and WHY they would awaken their persona. The one thing i really loved from 4 is the exploring the shadow world conceit. It really got is invested in seeing our comrades gain their personas. 3 we don't really get to see their persona awakening, but the build up to get their final forms is still unmatched.

5... Just felt rushed. Only Makoto or futaba felt like we've really explored their motivations to awaken their personas.

 

[Astral]

That's why I don't outright hate Akechi. Haru said it best. He has my sympathy but not my forgiveness. What I think was a bit too much was them asking him to join them. Nah fam. He can come with us if it means being arrested immediately.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

he can have some sympathy, but Id rather just execute him. He killed several hundred people

 

[Autoignition]

he can have some sympathy, but Id rather just execute him. He killed several hundred people

So did Nathan Drake, but GAF loves him. /s

Seriously, though, I don't understand the concept of applying real-world morality standards on fictional characters if the writing is there to back it up.

 

[Primethius]

This is just downright unfair to say. Here's a list of things to consider about Akechi:

• Bastard children of high profile people have shitty, shitty lives in Japan. Like, seriously, I'm tired of people on this board like, "oh boo hoo Akechi your dad never loved you so what." Bastard children in Japan deal with awful systemic oppression. It affects their abilities to get jobs, to get married, and hell, some of them are never even given a proper burial. It ruins your entire life from the second you're born. And if I was shithead Shido's oops baby in a society like that? That would fuck me up, too. Especially considering...
• Shido takes full responsibility for Akechi being the way he was and outright tells the gang that Akechi pretty much wasn't out to hurt people with his persona before Shido manipulated him.
• Akechi was awoken to his persona powers at age 15 and didn't have a Morgana to tell him that there was another way of dealing with people's palaces other than killing the shadow. He went through two years of causing mental shutdowns before meeting the MC and finding this out.
• Not only was Akechi super young and alone when he woke to his powers, but Yaldabaoth -- a fucking GOD -- was working (in addition to Shido) to groom him to be Joker's foil. Yaldabaoth gave Akechi the power to give people psychotic episodes, whereas he gave Joker the power to change people's hearts for the better. This was done intentionally, and Akechi never knew. Hell, Joker never knew until Caroline and Justine were able to wake the fuck up and remember that they used to be Lavenza.

Like for fuck's sake. I'm not going to sit here and scream GORO AKECHI DID NOTHING WRONG, but to say that it's entirely his fault and he was making conscious, rational decisions the entire time and wasn't an actual literal child who was groomed by a fucking God, a shitty illegitimate father, and a ridiculously oppressive social system in the country at large -- and that he's somehow more at fault than the adult in charge -- is just outrageous.

Really good post. I didn't know that about bastard children in Japan, which sheds quite a bit of light on to his situation that I hadn't considered.

I found Akechi to be a pretty sympathetic character even without knowing that. I thought the game did a fairly good job as painting him as a tool that was used and discarded by Shido and I also thought his decent into madness in the 7th dungeon was pretty convincing (especially with the Loki reveal and then him corrupting himself).

If anything, I was a bit disappointed that his death wasn't talked about more by the cast and other characters in the world.

 

[Marmaladefire]

Stuff.

The game isn't about that. That's what 4 is about, the personal stories of those awakening to their Personas. 5 is about using that power to change the world around you. 4 is the height of predictability. All of the shadows pretty much give the exact same speech. The plot doesn't even start going anywhere until after all 100 of your teammates have had 6 hours each to drone on about "you are apart of me!"

 

[Mariip]

That's why I don't outright hate Akechi. Haru said it best. He has my sympathy but not my forgiveness. What I think was a bit too much was them asking him to join them. Nah fam. He can come with us if it means being arrested immediately.

Akechi reminds me a lot of

Spoiler

Kuja

from ff9 and

Spoiler

Jun

persona 2, both did terrible things because they were misguided or didn't have any guidance at all and had some pretty serious daddy issues to deal with, i can't help but feel sad that he never got a real redemption, maybe not even a fucking funeral after having his life ruined by a person who never even saw him as a threat. At least have him fuck up shido's mind and make THAT the breaking point for the Thieves. He deserved better than that pityful ending

 

[Taruranto]

Yeah, this is basically where I'm at, too. IRL of course I would like nothing more than to see a kid like Akechi locked up forever and ever and kept the hell away from society, but in the context of the game, I feel awful for him. He's the perfect example of what any one of them could have turned into if they didn't have each other, and Yusuke even says as much. Haru and Futaba both have the grace and the wisdom to see in the end that Shido's really the one at fault, even if Akechi was technically the gunman who pulled the trigger, and that just twists the knife in my own heart.

When Akechi tells Joker that he wishes they could've met a few years earlier, I really believed him. I don't believe that Akechi got any real joy out of what he was doing, and going through NG+, there are specific moments where he's demonstrably bothered by some of the things the crew is saying to him, if only because his life would be so much different (and better) if he'd known any of it years ago.

I honestly can't see any of them going around shooting people.

 

[Guess Who]

One thousand years after the fall of human civilization, a lone aircraft whizzes through the night sky. Landing safely among the ruins of what was once a beautiful city, a small creature steps out from its star-crossed ship. How does so much life disappear with so little trace? It wonders. A cool breeze rips through the wreckage, slamming a newspaper against the creature’s short leg. As it bends down to pick up the paper, a headline catches its eye: “WORLD WAR: After talks between nations over the morality of Goro Akechi collapse, nuclear launch becomes inevitable.”

 

[KingDirk]

Akechi reminds me a lot of

Spoiler

Kuja

from ff9 and

Spoiler

Jun

persona 2, both did terrible things because they were misguided or didn't have any guidance at all and had some pretty serious daddy issues to deal with, i can't help but feel sad that he never got a real redemption, maybe not even a fucking funeral after having his life ruined by a person who never even saw him as a threat. At least have him fuck up shido's mind and make THAT the breaking point for the Thieves. He deserved better than that pityful ending

Hah, of FFIX comparisons Yadalboath really felt like Necron 2.0 "I AM THIS GAME'S THEMES MADE FLESH." Feels bad complaining about him too as one of the, like, 3 people who is kind of okay with Necron.

EDIT: Hey, so I am feeling playing another SMT/Person game--would prefer to do so on a handheld. I have a Vita and a 3DS, any recommendations on what I have to play? Tapped out of SMTIV a while back, played P4G, am otherwise completely unversed in the series.

 

[Autoignition]

I honestly can't see any of them going around shooting people.

Maybe you should replay the end of Kamoshida's palace, then. If Ann hadn't shown mercy, no one would've stopped her from killing him if she'd wanted to, and Morgana even said that no one would blame her. Ryuji doesn't fully understand why she did what she did even after sleeping on it, and the only reason she gives is "there are some things worse than death" -- meaning, she would've been fine with killing him if she'd thought it was the worst thing she could do to him.

The main cast came very very very close to becoming a group of Akechis.

 

[Guess Who]

Maybe you should replay the end of Kamoshida's palace, then. If Ann hadn't shown mercy, no one would've stopped her from killing him if she'd wanted to, and Morgana even said that no one would blame her. Ryuji doesn't fully understand why she did what she did even after sleeping on it, and the only reason she gives is "there are some things worse than death" -- meaning, she would've been fine with killing him if she'd thought it was the worst thing she could do to him.

The main cast came very very very close to becoming a group of Akechis.

Hell, before Morgana explains how Treasures and shit work, the gang are shown pretty seriously considering that it might still be better to kill Kamoshida's Shadow and cause him to have a breakdown rather than let him continue making more victims.

 

[Jintor]

the weird thing is the time lapse between killing the shadow and mental breakdown. I don't understand why Okamura Snr took so long to go nuts and then it happened right in the middle of his press conference if Goro killed his shadow right after the MC's left (a full two or three weeks before in my playthrough)

oversight, lucky timing, or what?

 

[Taruranto]

Maybe you should replay the end of Kamoshida's palace, then. If Ann hadn't shown mercy, no one would've stopped her from killing him if she'd wanted to, and Morgana even said that no one would blame her. Ryuji doesn't fully understand why she did what she did even after sleeping on it, and the only reason she gives is "there are some things worse than death."

The main cast came very very very close to becoming a group of Akechis.

Ann is a person taking revenge on her abuser who was pretty much an awful person, Akechi went around being Shindo's personal assassin for years, he killled innocent people like Fubata's mum and gods know how many just because he could. The comparison doesn't really work for me.

 

[Autoignition]

Ann is a person taking revenge on her abuser who was pretty much an awful person, Akechi went around being Shindo's personal assassin for years, he killled innocent people like Fubata's mum and gods know how many just because he could. The comparison doesn't really work for me.

A human life is a human life, isn't it?

edit: And no, it wasn't "just because he could." Shido would've killed him if he didn't do that shit for him.

 

[The Silver]

The game never did live up to Kamoshida's villain arc, Akechi aka Light Yagami should've been his equal but the game dropped the ball in giving him a real personal connection to Joker, finally a bad guy who has the Fool arcana like you and it ended being kinda limp.

 

[PK Gaming]

I honestly can't see any of them going around shooting people.

Ann and the rest of Phantom Thieves at least had people who loved them + relatively normal upbringings. Goro didn't, and i'm sure if you put most of them in his shoes, they'd certainly end up fucked up beyond recognition.

 

[Mariip]

Hah, of FFIX comparisons Yadalboath really felt like Necron 2.0 "I AM THIS GAME'S THEMES MADE FLESH." Feels bad complaining about him too as one of the, like, 3 people who is kind of okay with Necron.

EDIT: Hey, so I am feeling playing another SMT/Person game--would prefer to do so on a handheld. I have a Vita and a 3DS, any recommendations on what I have to play? Tapped out of SMTIV a while back, played P4G, am otherwise completely unversed in the series.

I am the 2nd person then, i thought Necron fit the game pretty well as a theme ans as a homage to older FFs, as someone who lives in a country in some sort of political turmoil, the final boss of p5 was pretty much exacly what i wished to see in p5's endgame too D: it was just too real.

Nocturne is a nice ps2 classic, i dunno if vita can play it but it is nice if you enjoyed smt IV, i believe strange journey is getting a 3DS remake soon, you can't go wrong with p4g and p2(this one has some high enemy encounter rate, but the story may be the best among the persona franchise

 

[Antiwhippy]

The game isn't about that. That's what 4 is about, the personal stories of those awakening to their Personas. 5 is about using that power to change the world around you. 4 is the height of predictability. All of the shadows pretty much give the exact same speech. The plot doesn't even start going anywhere until after all 100 of your teammates have had 6 hours each to drone on about "you are apart of me!"

I'm not saying that it should be tge same, hell, 4 is different from 3. I'm saying that they didn't give enough of an investment to their awakenings.

 

[Guess Who]

The only awakening I felt didn't come across as sufficiently earned is Haru's, and well, that's the fucking story of Haru's character, isn't it

 

[Autoignition]

The only awakening I felt didn't come across as sufficiently earned is Haru's, and well, that's the fucking story of Haru's character, isn't it

I didn't like Makoto's either, but I think it largely has to do with the fact that Kaneshiro was such a nothing, filler villain and didn't have any real personal connection to the story or the cast at all.

 

[Guess Who]

I didn't like Makoto's either, but I think it largely has to do with the fact that Kaneshiro was such a nothing, filler villain and didn't have any real personal connection to the story or the cast at all.

Kaneshiro felt flat, but I felt like they did a good enough job building up Makoto herself and all the shit she was going through in her personal life that her awakening felt super cathartic. She was basically a ticking timebomb ready to blow (not unlike her sister in a way).

 

[Jintor]

Makoto's as anger at the way she's been treated, at how she's tried to fit in to other's expectations of herself (and been doing okay at it only to get jerked around and used for other's benefit) is fine, but shouting angrily at a representation of a manifestation of... some fucking goon wasn't great

really should've been the principal or some shit, i dunno

i really dislike the use of the Targets fort he most part. I mean sure P4 you had the same Shadows going blah blah blah you're not me blah blah blah, but at least there was that connection. P5 really was all over the shop there.

Palace 4 still the GOAT

 

[OrionX]

Maybe it would've felt contrived, but I was just thinking they could've reworked the story so that Kaneshiro had been involved in the death of Makoto's dad.

 

[chrominance]

the weird thing is the time lapse between killing the shadow and mental breakdown. I don't understand why Okamura Snr took so long to go nuts and then it happened right in the middle of his press conference if Goro killed his shadow right after the MC's left (a full two or three weeks before in my playthrough)

oversight, lucky timing, or what?

"Necessary concession to gameplay mechanics" is my vote. I think they had to do it that way because they didn't know when people would complete a palace, and shit goes crazy after Okumura ends up dead, so it'd be weird to be all "SOCIAL LINK GO!" for two weeks right after it happens, or to delay the rest of the story in order to let you do so after Okumura's death but before Sae's palace.

Of course, Atlus could also have come up with a story that worked better with this gameplay mechanic, or figured out a better way to have a flexible timeline while still allowing the player a certain amount of freedom, but hey.

Maybe it would've felt contrived, but I was just thinking they could've reworked the story so that Kaneshiro had been involved in the death of Makoto's dad.

I think it'd be too much. Having everything in the game be connected to everything else in the game is a good way to make the world feel a lot smaller than it needs to be.