Tony Redgrave
Member
In the prologue David says: "We were able to activate their ship, and set course for their homeworld". That's pretty clear I think.
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Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS
- Thread starter Toa TAK
- Start date
In the prologue David says: "We were able to activate their ship, and set course for their homeworld". That's pretty clear I think.
Hard to argue against that as he flat out says it. It's just confusing. Especially considering the trailer even states "The path to Paradise begins in Hell". I always assumed Paradise was their homeworld and that tag line implies that it's still out there. Scott is just making this all up isn't he? There is no plan.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Just saw it, ugh....
Ok, as a film on the whole, it's biggest thing for me was it's poor pacing; there is a lot of time in this film (especially the start) where nothing/little happens.
Aside from that some big plot points/holes irked me badly:
-David. FFS. Ok he was clearly untrustworthy from the off and Prometheus, but his turn about to mad scientist is just underdone.
-Xenomorohs not attacking David, but they will Walter...
-Pretty much every character is either an idiot, underdeveloped or both.
-The cliffhanger was obvious a mile away.
-hanging colonists in pods on essentially a clothes rack seems like a great health & safety idea
-Why do you keep messing with the xenomorph lifecycle Ridley?!? Stop it!
-More of a carry forward from Prometheus but the black oil/spores still bother me with the lack of specificity to how they work (they cause aliens and also dissolve people)
So even after all this, we still need to see how David's new aliens spread to the events of the other movies now. Ugh...
Why overcomplicate this shit so much?
Ps: "I know wheat" & "let me do the fingering" got big laughs at my screening.
Ok, as a film on the whole, it's biggest thing for me was it's poor pacing; there is a lot of time in this film (especially the start) where nothing/little happens.
Aside from that some big plot points/holes irked me badly:
-David. FFS. Ok he was clearly untrustworthy from the off and Prometheus, but his turn about to mad scientist is just underdone.
-Xenomorohs not attacking David, but they will Walter...
-Pretty much every character is either an idiot, underdeveloped or both.
-The cliffhanger was obvious a mile away.
-hanging colonists in pods on essentially a clothes rack seems like a great health & safety idea
-Why do you keep messing with the xenomorph lifecycle Ridley?!? Stop it!
-More of a carry forward from Prometheus but the black oil/spores still bother me with the lack of specificity to how they work (they cause aliens and also dissolve people)
So even after all this, we still need to see how David's new aliens spread to the events of the other movies now. Ugh...
Why overcomplicate this shit so much?
Ps: "I know wheat" & "let me do the fingering" got big laughs at my screening.
Doesn't he wants to do, like, 6 Alien movies that take place before the first one? I guess that gives you an idea of why lol
The Engineers have been completed wasted. At this point, the pilot of the original downed alien ship isn't gonna be an Engineer, it's gonna be an infected David in an Engineer pilot suit.
Just came out of the cinema. This was absolute shit I am more disappointed in it than I was with Prometheus. Can we not just keep doing a slasher movie with different cast that doesn't really do anything to progress the story ?
Of ALL the things I expected the sequel to do this was the last thing I wanted or expected.
- Movie starts off with the same stupid characters of touching everything, doing nonsense, they even came up with a stupid excuse to even go to that planet in the first place. No crew would ever do anything like that just because "I don't want to go to cryo sleep" well boo fuckin hoo you signed up for this. Or "Oh I'll lock you in because you might be contaminated because you were walking with him, never mind the fact that I just have contaminated blood on my face".
Thing about dumb characters is that it makes the entire narrative feel stupid. Why would the viewers take the movie seriously if the movie isn't willing to be serious about it?
- The trailer showed scenes between David and Shaw, none of that shit was in movie.
- David was poking expert but he turned into a mad scientist and his character is just so underdone. He hates humans but he loves Shaw but he killed Shaw etc etc.
- Unlike Alien 1 there's no payoff cause they are all fucked at the end anyways.
Prometheus promised to be a movie that explained some shit about this universe, the creators but it raised so many more questions than it answered. This movie was suppose to be the one to correct that and actually answer things but instead we just get fuckin slasher movie where everyone dies one by one.....yet again with no progression to the lore. I donno how this movie is better than Prometheus. Should've spent my money on GoTG2 instead of spending £15 on this.
Of ALL the things I expected the sequel to do this was the last thing I wanted or expected.
- Movie starts off with the same stupid characters of touching everything, doing nonsense, they even came up with a stupid excuse to even go to that planet in the first place. No crew would ever do anything like that just because "I don't want to go to cryo sleep" well boo fuckin hoo you signed up for this. Or "Oh I'll lock you in because you might be contaminated because you were walking with him, never mind the fact that I just have contaminated blood on my face".
Thing about dumb characters is that it makes the entire narrative feel stupid. Why would the viewers take the movie seriously if the movie isn't willing to be serious about it?
- The trailer showed scenes between David and Shaw, none of that shit was in movie.
- David was poking expert but he turned into a mad scientist and his character is just so underdone. He hates humans but he loves Shaw but he killed Shaw etc etc.
- Unlike Alien 1 there's no payoff cause they are all fucked at the end anyways.
Prometheus promised to be a movie that explained some shit about this universe, the creators but it raised so many more questions than it answered. This movie was suppose to be the one to correct that and actually answer things but instead we just get fuckin slasher movie where everyone dies one by one.....yet again with no progression to the lore. I donno how this movie is better than Prometheus. Should've spent my money on GoTG2 instead of spending £15 on this.
Bucket Mouse
Member
One more movie to go and the Star Wars prequels will have serious competition for the worst prequel trilogy award.
Liamario
Banned
Don't know what to make of it. I think I preferred Prometheus. I would like him to move away from the xenomorph stuff, as they don't seem to serve any purpose except as a plot device. I really don't know know where he's going with these movies. He's hardly going to spend the next few movies following the adventures of a demented android.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Just got back from watching Covenant and I gotta say I really enjoyed it. Definitely the 3rd best Alien movie now and I'm one of the people that actually like Alien 3 (the Special Edition / Workprint version) but 3 still has way more issues than Covenant has.
It's not perfect, thanks to it being part sequel to Prometheus and those parts of the movie still don't deliver any real answers to the Engineer storyline and the Alien side of the story can't live up to Alien or Aliens.
There is still a lot to like though, Fassbender's David is once again brilliant and his interaction with himself (as Walter) are great moments. The Neomorphs and their birth are just awesome and it's great to see the Xenomorphs again, well this version of the Xeno anyway (hopefully we get the biomechanical version in one if the sequels)
The crew of the Covenant was all fine but you don't get to know much about most of them, I actually wouldn't mind a directors cut with some of the cut stuff back in, like the crew Prologue and the Shaw / David footage. The last act feels a little rushed too and could have done with a slightly slower pace, building up more tension but it wasn't terrible either.
Visually the movie is beautiful and the CG is mostly very good too, the gore effects are awesome. It has flaws but it's certainly a step in the right direction and overall a decent enough movie.
It's not perfect, thanks to it being part sequel to Prometheus and those parts of the movie still don't deliver any real answers to the Engineer storyline and the Alien side of the story can't live up to Alien or Aliens.
There is still a lot to like though, Fassbender's David is once again brilliant and his interaction with himself (as Walter) are great moments. The Neomorphs and their birth are just awesome and it's great to see the Xenomorphs again, well this version of the Xeno anyway (hopefully we get the biomechanical version in one if the sequels)
The crew of the Covenant was all fine but you don't get to know much about most of them, I actually wouldn't mind a directors cut with some of the cut stuff back in, like the crew Prologue and the Shaw / David footage. The last act feels a little rushed too and could have done with a slightly slower pace, building up more tension but it wasn't terrible either.
Visually the movie is beautiful and the CG is mostly very good too, the gore effects are awesome. It has flaws but it's certainly a step in the right direction and overall a decent enough movie.
Glad to see I'm not alone in thinking the movie was...disappointing to say the least.
Way too much cgi, way too much Fassbender, and a generic, by the numbers plot. Honestly the stuff that links this movie with Prometheus was the best part, and that ain't saying much. Everything else was generic sci fi on the same level as pandorum. I expected much more.
Way too much cgi, way too much Fassbender, and a generic, by the numbers plot. Honestly the stuff that links this movie with Prometheus was the best part, and that ain't saying much. Everything else was generic sci fi on the same level as pandorum. I expected much more.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I still don't get how "way too much CGI" is a complaint in 2017.
elrechazado
Banned
How dare you not mention the Hobbit
- Movie opens up nice and while the shuttle scene is good and raw it's also kind of full of shit due to character stupidity.
- Where did David get scissors and petri dishes and all that fuckin equipment? Lol. Why did Shaw have Wheat with her? They left with fuckin nothing at the end of Prometheus.
- Maybe we'll find out why David killed all engineers, unless Scott decides to make another slasher film for next movie.
- Barely even see Walter being involved in anything, and dude dies offscreen after already dying once before. I'm sure Scott thought he was being clever with the Walter-David swap..lol
- "I'll do the fingering"
I think Scott realised that people had issues with Prometheus but didn't realise why or what those issues were. Which is why the interesting stuff from Prometheus is barely mentioned or completely dropped and all the bad bits are still here. At some point he probably said "fuck it, I'll make another slasher movie but this time have Xenomorphs and everyone will like that"
- Where did David get scissors and petri dishes and all that fuckin equipment? Lol. Why did Shaw have Wheat with her? They left with fuckin nothing at the end of Prometheus.
- Maybe we'll find out why David killed all engineers, unless Scott decides to make another slasher film for next movie.
- Barely even see Walter being involved in anything, and dude dies offscreen after already dying once before. I'm sure Scott thought he was being clever with the Walter-David swap..lol
- "I'll do the fingering"
I think Scott realised that people had issues with Prometheus but didn't realise why or what those issues were. Which is why the interesting stuff from Prometheus is barely mentioned or completely dropped and all the bad bits are still here. At some point he probably said "fuck it, I'll make another slasher movie but this time have Xenomorphs and everyone will like that"
Would it help if I said it was bad CGI?
The practical effects of Alien are more impressive than this shit nearly 4 decades later.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I guess it depends on what specific VFX you're trying to call out, because "too much CGI" is, at this point, like the Emperor saying there are too many notes. CGI is used in so much of modern filmmaking (especially genre entertainment) that trying to call a film out for using "too much" often doesn't make any sense.
But if you meant the Neomorph and the Xenomorph themselves... I dunno. I liked the Neomorph overall, honestly. I thought they did some cool shit with that beastie that you could probably only do with CGI augmentation (and I believe there were more than a few shots where it's a dude in a suit)
The Xenomorph wasn't as well done, you're right. But I don't think it wasn't well done because it was CGI, but because the situations it was placed in (and what they had it do in those situations) weren't great.
AHA-Lambda
Member
And another thing, it's mentioned twice about the captain's faith like it's supposed to be a big deal but nothing ever actually is done with this plot thread.
Ugh, in just waiting for the RLM guys to tear this apart now.
Ugh, in just waiting for the RLM guys to tear this apart now.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, it seems like a thing that was discussed in story meetings re: his belief in a creator, his coming face to face with a creator, and becoming, in his own way, a creator himself. And then after having discussed all that, they either a) never put it in the screenplay in a way that paid any of that off or b) it was put in the screenplay, they just cut all that shit either before shooting, or during the edit.
You can see where that aspect was supposed to slot in. It just... didn't. I think the closest we get to that is Oram saying something about "the devil" just before David leads him to the egg chamber.
You can see where that aspect was supposed to slot in. It just... didn't. I think the closest we get to that is Oram saying something about "the devil" just before David leads him to the egg chamber.
AHA-Lambda
Member
More of a Prometheus question really but how did David know what the black goo did? He just seemed to know from the start if I remember?
And Prometheus' ending set up "why did the engineers want to kill us?" but this was never explored again
Nah man it's a near enough carbon copy of the black oil from x files :/
And Prometheus' ending set up "why did the engineers want to kill us?" but this was never explored again
Nah man it's a near enough carbon copy of the black oil from x files :/
Honestly animatronics just wouldn't really work today without it looking cheesy as fuck. There is a reason why the Xenomorph in Alien was barely ever show and the tension is built up through terror and stalking instead of showing the Xenomorph and even when they do it's rarely ever clear and a full shot of it. It's cause animatronics move so slow and its very obvious that they are puppets. It was fine when it came out because those were the standards back in the day.
There's the other fact that nothing in reality moves as fast or in that way so animating it would be a hard task for any animator, which is why again they would have to rely on obscuring it as much as possible and building tension by fear rather than clear visible actions.
There's the other fact that nothing in reality moves as fast or in that way so animating it would be a hard task for any animator, which is why again they would have to rely on obscuring it as much as possible and building tension by fear rather than clear visible actions.
Isn't that almost just a retread of Shaw?
This movie needs to hurry up and release.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yup.
Which might be why it got cut (if it was ever shot in the first place)
Which might be why it got cut (if it was ever shot in the first place)
Yautja_Warrior
Member
I think a large part of the problem is Prometheus was a mess. Changing it from what was originally an Alien prequel, to it's own thing about the Engineers, they backed themselves into a corner by setting up plot points that it seems like they didn't really have any idea how they would resolve them.
I think that's part of the reason they didn't dig deeper into that story, because they are still trying to figure that stuff out, plus a lot of people didn't love Prometheus and wanted the Alien back.
At least Covenant wasn't as much of a mess though and hopefully Ridley will figure out some decent answers for the next one.
I think that's part of the reason they didn't dig deeper into that story, because they are still trying to figure that stuff out, plus a lot of people didn't love Prometheus and wanted the Alien back.
At least Covenant wasn't as much of a mess though and hopefully Ridley will figure out some decent answers for the next one.
I thought he had no idea what it did and it was stated that he was experimenting what effect it would have on humans as that was what he had secretly been programmed to do.
Orochinagis
Member
Now I remember the entire expedition project only had one shuttle to land, just one.
He didnt, thats why David infected Shawn's guy without Weyland permission. David later got an personal obsession with the Goo.
He didnt, thats why David infected Shawn's guy without Weyland permission. David later got an personal obsession with the Goo.
Saw it tonight. Enjoyed it more than Prometheus but my main problem is that it could've either been paced a little better or been a bit longer to breathe more.
Everything keeps moving on so quickly which is fine for keeping your attention but it leaves nearly every character and situation besides David underdeveloped. They spend too much time trying to develop characters who are about to kick the bucket 10 minutes later which leaves us with two "protagonists" at the end who we aren't really that invested in.
I loved the Acropolis shit, the Geiger/Lovecraftian elements of "who was here? what were they doing?" etc. was great but then was promptly killed with the flashback scene of David just... killing them? Cool. Ancient Alien race and they're gone with no lore/story exposure.
- Setpiece on the hover-crane was great.
- David/Walter switch was obvious from the second you met David.
- Alien 'showdown' at the end wasn't really that tense as the camera kept cutting to where the Alien was. He was also super-smart/agile on the planet but was a fucking dummy and got caught in a crane cockpit in the ship.
- Loved the acropolis, the adventuring they do at the beginning.
- Art/Character design was solid - especially the expedition gear.
- Enjoyed the visual storytelling on the Engineer's planet. Especially the corpse of Shaw.
Everything keeps moving on so quickly which is fine for keeping your attention but it leaves nearly every character and situation besides David underdeveloped. They spend too much time trying to develop characters who are about to kick the bucket 10 minutes later which leaves us with two "protagonists" at the end who we aren't really that invested in.
I loved the Acropolis shit, the Geiger/Lovecraftian elements of "who was here? what were they doing?" etc. was great but then was promptly killed with the flashback scene of David just... killing them? Cool. Ancient Alien race and they're gone with no lore/story exposure.
- Setpiece on the hover-crane was great.
- David/Walter switch was obvious from the second you met David.
- Alien 'showdown' at the end wasn't really that tense as the camera kept cutting to where the Alien was. He was also super-smart/agile on the planet but was a fucking dummy and got caught in a crane cockpit in the ship.
- Loved the acropolis, the adventuring they do at the beginning.
- Art/Character design was solid - especially the expedition gear.
- Enjoyed the visual storytelling on the Engineer's planet. Especially the corpse of Shaw.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Is there anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, that's surprised by the 'Grand revelation' in the end that is David-Walter swap? I mean, maybe Scott thought he's being Oh-so-clever with that, but *really* now, you must have an intellectual capacity of a toddler to not expecting that. Heck, a toddler might notice it regardless.
What a weak 'surprise'.
What a weak 'surprise'.
I realized something after watching the movie again.
This is the first time we see the Xenomorph used the way Weyland wants to use it, as a weapon.
They're not front and center as the main threat, they were a tool used by the main threat.
It was certainly an interesting angle, I think it works if people are already tired of seeing the Alien kill people just to breed.
This is the first time we see the Xenomorph used the way Weyland wants to use it, as a weapon.
They're not front and center as the main threat, they were a tool used by the main threat.
It was certainly an interesting angle, I think it works if people are already tired of seeing the Alien kill people just to breed.
I don't think it was meant to be a surprise at all. I think the tension was intended to be when and how he pulls off the betrayal, not whether he is going to. I think it did make the entire action set piece a little more tense because I felt at any moment he could turn no them and he had full control of the systems.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
Oh I see.
Orochinagis
Member
The twist was so obvious but the way the swap was done was unrealistic since walter got his voice damaged , not enough time to change his clothes, cut his hand and suddendky know how to operate covenant passwords and systems.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
If it's not meant as a surprise then I see no reason why the cabin log conversation in the end needed to happen.
Because these are bad films with bad scripts headed by a washed up has been director? Idk.
OMG that is a perfect fit hahahahaha now I want to see the edit to see if it makes me laught even more
That's one of the weirdest things about the entire series to me. Half the times the aliens aren't killing because they're hungry or breeding. They just kill people, then leave their corpses on the ground for no reason. I assume theres some "they're bred to kill for fun" level explanation under it, but it feels shallow. Especially when they periodically also throw in these scenes of them being all "friendly" or compassionate with each other (or "people"). I.e. the protomorph here or the mother in Aliens.
Orochinagis
Member
Random LATAM facts,
In the Latin American Spanish version , the voice of Muthur is the same voice actor of Athena from Overwatch.
Muthur, the IA ship is called Madre (Mother) by the crew in all the course of the movie leaving David as the father figure.
In the Latin American Spanish version , the voice of Muthur is the same voice actor of Athena from Overwatch.
Muthur, the IA ship is called Madre (Mother) by the crew in all the course of the movie leaving David as the father figure.
I'm sorry but it's an awful movie. I get they want to expand on this supposed lore of the franchise but how about focusing on one of the core thematic successes of the franchise - claustrophobia?
The pacing was so bad that any sense of tension built up in the first act was gone once they were invited to David's lair. Once the plot evolved in to creationist nonsense I was done.
Oh and spare me the hacked on spaceship thriller scene at the end, it was void of any excitement or thrills and felt like a cynical way of appeasing fans by conforming to the iconography of its worthy predecessors.
The pacing was so bad that any sense of tension built up in the first act was gone once they were invited to David's lair. Once the plot evolved in to creationist nonsense I was done.
Oh and spare me the hacked on spaceship thriller scene at the end, it was void of any excitement or thrills and felt like a cynical way of appeasing fans by conforming to the iconography of its worthy predecessors.
it's jokes
when it launches, Muthur specifically states "lander one" as if there were multiple of them
Does this have a worse third act than Sunshine?
I saw the writing on the wall when the official line coming out for this was "Don't worry, everyone, we've fixed what you didn't like about Prometheus - we've made this much more scary." Prometheus had a lot of problems but it not being scary enough was pretty far down the list. That they thought that was the sticking point for people is remarkable. In fact, I'd say this movie compounds all of Prometheus' problems (e.g. characters too dumb to live, confusing biology, weird anti-Darwin slant) while somehow being less interesting - and yet has nothing as horrifying as the abortion scene from Prometheus.
freefornow
Member
Could argue that it wasnt just blood but a mixture of blood and embryonic sac fluid that encased the creature prior to birth. Maybe that fluid is quite slippery?
Also, in that scene, the baby Alien does slip :/
I am sort of amazed, as I think Covenant is sincerely worse than Prometheus.
I was NOT expecting it to be any good, but worse than that pile of shit? Consider me surprised.
It's just an awful movie all around, and pretty much the tombstone on the Alien Franchise, at least for me.
So depressing, it's like beating a dead horse at this point. Please Fox, prevent somehow Scott from releasing another one, making the fans like me suffer even more.
Basically, the only things that "sort of work" are sterile copycats of situations already seen in previous movies, kinda like Jurassic World. Whenever something original gets introduced, it's pretty much a trainwreck:
- terrible characters, with so many stupid decisions that the two scientist from Prometheus could be considered Nobel candidates. I physically facepalmed two or three times, in particular that scene where the captain listens to David and puts his face over the egg is honestly depressing and put me on the verge of leaving the cinema.
- no sense of tension whatsoever, as the enemy is not even there for a large amount of time. And by there I don't mean "in front of the camera", of course. Oh and the pacing... so, so bad.
- The biology of the Xeno just got even more complicated, duller and simply dumber. Good job, seriously.
- The Xeno itself is clearly not the focus anymore, but neither are those bald albino body builders known as the Engineers. While I frankly don't miss the latter, I do miss the times when the Xeno was the star of the show. And no, I don't fucking care about the bland new abominations that get introduced here (and in Prometheus before, like the Deacon and the Space Cobra), get a grand total of 5' of screen time and just die, being left in the obsolescence they deserve.
- Lots of usual non-sense/bad writing here and there, but I guess that's granted at this point.
- Tons of CGI, at times far from stellar (even if the black rain of bombs is indeed a very impressive sequence).
To add insult to injury, quite a few times (mainly when David was showing his research) I was frankly reminded of Alien Resurrection. And no, that is by no means a compliment.
Congrats Ridley, congrats.
I was NOT expecting it to be any good, but worse than that pile of shit? Consider me surprised.
It's just an awful movie all around, and pretty much the tombstone on the Alien Franchise, at least for me.
So depressing, it's like beating a dead horse at this point. Please Fox, prevent somehow Scott from releasing another one, making the fans like me suffer even more.
Basically, the only things that "sort of work" are sterile copycats of situations already seen in previous movies, kinda like Jurassic World. Whenever something original gets introduced, it's pretty much a trainwreck:
- terrible characters, with so many stupid decisions that the two scientist from Prometheus could be considered Nobel candidates. I physically facepalmed two or three times, in particular that scene where the captain listens to David and puts his face over the egg is honestly depressing and put me on the verge of leaving the cinema.
- no sense of tension whatsoever, as the enemy is not even there for a large amount of time. And by there I don't mean "in front of the camera", of course. Oh and the pacing... so, so bad.
- The biology of the Xeno just got even more complicated, duller and simply dumber. Good job, seriously.
- The Xeno itself is clearly not the focus anymore, but neither are those bald albino body builders known as the Engineers. While I frankly don't miss the latter, I do miss the times when the Xeno was the star of the show. And no, I don't fucking care about the bland new abominations that get introduced here (and in Prometheus before, like the Deacon and the Space Cobra), get a grand total of 5' of screen time and just die, being left in the obsolescence they deserve.
- Lots of usual non-sense/bad writing here and there, but I guess that's granted at this point.
- Tons of CGI, at times far from stellar (even if the black rain of bombs is indeed a very impressive sequence).
To add insult to injury, quite a few times (mainly when David was showing his research) I was frankly reminded of Alien Resurrection. And no, that is by no means a compliment.
Congrats Ridley, congrats.
I agree with everything you said, and this point in particular honestly almost pissed me off.
What the fuck were they even thinking?!? How could they think that that would be a great idea? Not to mention it's also visually uninspired and downright lazy from an aesthetic point of view.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Didn't they already try that Alien-POV bullshit in Alien 3? It sucked then too, so why the fuck would you do it again?
David created the giant space jockey from Alien using alien DNA + engineer DNA + human host.