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[DKL]

Historically have fighting games used AI matches to balance the game?

After a point, they do sometimes look at tournament results to judge whether or not to change things.

(though this is somewhat misguided because the average player isn't gonna be doing shit that the best players are doing)

Are we talking multiplayer or singleplayer? I'm confused now and I was mostly saying that the AI in a 1v1 scenario will likely cheat.

 

[Eliseo]

I think this well sell well, but probably not the 4.5-5m that Splatoon ended up doing (but I hope it does way more).

Then when the inevitable thread pops up about its success, the usual suspects will appear saying, "see? it isn't the next Splatoon!"

Then, when we get ARMS 2 and a new IP same suspects will shit on it and repeat the cycle lol

 

[Totakeke]

After a point, they do sometimes look at tournament results to judge whether or not to change things.

(though this is somewhat misguided because the average player isn't gonna be doing shit that the best players are doing)

Are we talking multiplayer or singleplayer? I'm confused now and I was mostly saying that the AI in a 1v1 scenario will likely cheat.

Single player. The developers said they used AI battles to balance the game. It would be pretty silly to balance the game around AIs that cheat wouldn't it?

 

[TI82]

Some cool stuff I didn't see on the official video or Twitter :

(Official Splatoon 2 switch accessories

Fancy pack
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B072P16HQY/

Quick pouch
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B06ZZXGV4R/

Flip cover
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B06ZZN1DB3/

Joycon decals
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B06ZXXJ48M/

Each comes out in July, you can order for delivery to the US, and are seemingly Japan only.

 

[B00TE]

They mentioned grand prix could be done with a friend, wonder if you can play that in local wireless or is it split screen only.

 

[TheDinoman]

I know it remains to be seen, but historically speaking, the AI in fighting-type games is normally programmed around reading your inputs for whatever reason.

High level CPUs in Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS are an absolute nightmare to fight against, lmao.

They literally input read and dodge every, single, fucking, attack. Playing 9.0 in that game made me want to pull my hair out.

 

[Mista Koo]

She's both noteworthy and good though.

I meant design and art wise. She looks bad, like most characters from that franchise.

 

[DKL]

Single player. The developers said they used AI battles to balance the game. It would be pretty silly to balance the game around AIs that cheat wouldn't it?

Give me some links since I'm still not sure what we're talking about here.

My understanding of what you're talking about is that they run a bunch of AI matches in order to decide on how to do balancing for the movesets or frames or whatever.

(which I guess could work, but my impression is that your AI has to be godlike in order to cover most of the situations actual people do, which may not necessarily be the aim for singleplayer stuff)

Even if they did do this, this doesn't necessarily mean that the modifier for difficulty won't end up being something stupid like input reading.

But then it's also possible that they'll keep it "honest" and you just steamroll on all difficulties once you learn to punish during a specific situation the AI feeds you, which I would kinda prefer even if it's an easier experience, putting myself in the shoes of someone that maybe doesn't want to play to competitively.

(but then I do actually wanna compete, so the singleplayer stuff isn't too relevant for me... but the least game makers can do is not make it miserable for the players that want engage in this part of the game)

High level CPUs in Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS are an absolute nightmare to fight against, lmao.

They literally input read and dodge every, single, fucking, attack. Playing 9.0 in that game made me want to pull my hair out.

Let's let the AI punish you for some random shit that no normal human can react to consistently.

Great design :v

(but yeah, you normally have to just exploit this after a point in order to win, but that ends up being kinda unfun)

 

[ITSMILNER]

Not able to watch this, can some one summarise what modes they detailed? Any single player stuff?

 

[Totakeke]

Give me some links since I'm still not sure what we're talking about here.

My understanding of what you're talking about is that they run a bunch of AI matches in order to decide on how to do balancing for the movesets or frames or whatever.

(which I guess could work, but my impression is that your AI has to be godlike in order to cover most of the situations actual people do, which may not necessarily be the aim for singleplayer stuff)

Even if they did do this, this doesn't necessarily mean that the modifier for difficulty won't end up being something stupid like input reading.

But then it's also possible that they'll keep it "honest" and you just steamroll on all difficulties once you learn to punish during a specific situation the AI feeds you, which I would kinda prefer even if it's an easier experience, putting myself in the shoes of someone that maybe doesn't want to play to competitively.

(but then I do actually wanna compete, so the singleplayer stuff isn't too relevant for me... but the least game makers can do is not make it miserable for the players that want engage in this part of the game)

It's from the EDGE article and I don't have a link.

And this is why I said it remains to be seen but you're pretty adamant that you know what's the end product.

 

[DKL]

And this is why I said it remains to be seen but you're pretty adamant that you know what's the end product.

Which is why I covered the situation where they make the AI reasonable (which I would prefer from a design perspective).

It's possible they go that route (and I hope they will even if people complain 2ez4me... play a damn human then), but I feel like they may not based on how this area is normally designed.

 

[perfectchaos007]

ARMS will outsell MK8D by the end of the year.

Nah at the end of the day it's a motion control game and that alone will turn many away like myself. Wii sports isn't walking through that door this isn't 2006.

 

[gamerMan]

Honestly I can't believe that Nintendo made this game. Nintendo is not supposed to be cool and hip. It looks like Nintendo sat down and said lets make a Sega game. Everything from the art style to the music to the controls looks ripped from a Sega game.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Honestly I can't believe that Nintendo made this game. Nintendo is not supposed to be cool and hip. It looks like Nintendo sat down and said lets make a Sega game. Everything from the art style to the music to the controls looked ripped from a Sega game.

Is the joke here that this exact post was made about Splatoon or what

 

[TheDinoman]

Nah at the end of the day it's a motion control game and that alone will turn many away like myself. Wii sports isn't walking through that door this isn't 2006.

You can use traditional control options.

 

[SciencePilot]

Honestly I can't believe that Nintendo made this game. Nintendo is not supposed to be cool and hip. It looks like Nintendo sat down and said lets make a Sega game. Everything from the art style to the music to the controls looks ripped from a Sega game.

Nintendo can be cool and hip when they decide not to cling to their decades old franchises.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

ARMS will outsell MK8D by the end of the year.

It's nice to be optimistic, but that isn't happening.

You need to remember that Mario Kart is one of the biggest series in gaming, with it being the second best seller on wii (behind wii sports... a pack in in the majority of the world), best on wii u, third best on 3DS behind pokemon X/Y and Sun/Moon, third best on DS behind NSMB and Nintendogs.

There is no way on this earth that I think that an arena fighter is going to outpace the best version of Mario Kart to date.

 

[NathanS]

Honestly I can't believe that Nintendo made this game. Nintendo is not supposed to be cool and hip. It looks like Nintendo sat down and said lets make a Sega game. Everything from the art style to the music to the controls looks ripped from a Sega game.

I remember everyone talking about Splatoon as being like a modern Dreamcast game when it first was reveled.

 

[Anteo]

Which is why I covered the situation where they make the AI reasonable (which I would prefer from a design perspective).

It's possible they go that route (and I hope they will even if people complain 2ez4me... play a damn human then), but I feel like they may not based on how this area is normally designed.

They said that besides battling themselves, they let the AI run vs battles all night and collected the data.

 

[Neiteio]

https://twitter.com/OuendanL/status/864972935546585088

From the Japanese Direct:

This is adorable looking.

I love Spring Man

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Honestly I can't believe that Nintendo made this game. Nintendo is not supposed to be cool and hip. It looks like Nintendo sat down and said lets make a Sega game. Everything from the art style to the music to the controls looks ripped from a Sega game.

It's like I'm looking into 2015.

 

[Rodin]

ARMS will outsell MK8D by the end of the year.

It will do well, but nah.

I meant design and art wise. She looks bad, like most characters from that franchise.

Monolith's incapability of making good character models in X was due to working on a mid tier budget and not being able to afford a top tier staff to make the in game models, but that has nothing to do with Elma's art design, which looks like this

Give her to SSB/ARMS designers (or a bigger budget to Monolith for the sequel if/when that happens) and she'd look amazing.

Nintendo can be cool and hip when they decide not to cling to their decades old franchises.

Seems to me that they do decent things with those as well.

 

[Aleh]

I've finally been able to watch the direct after a long day at uni, and I have to say I'm impressed! I already liked the game before but they showed so much more content than I expected so I'm pleasantly surprised. I really think it will do quite well.

 

[MCN]

Nintendo can be cool and hip when they decide not to cling to their decades old franchises.

It helps that the younger designers are being given more of a free rein at Nintendo these days. This is like Nintendo: The Next Generation.

 

[B00TE]

Seeing 1v1v1 in the Testpunch attract screens, looks goofy fun.

 

[Neoxon]

Nintendo can be cool and hip when they decide not to cling to their decades old franchises.

So you expect Nintendo to abandon franchises that are basically household names? There's room for both old & new.

 

[atr0cious]

Nah at the end of the day it's a motion control game and that alone will turn many away like myself. Wii sports isn't walking through that door this isn't 2006.

I don't agree with that poster, but motion controls will only help it especially in terms of accessibility and who learns it, remember the Wii wasn't sold just to you.

 

[B00TE]

Seeing 1v1v1 in the Testpunch attract screens, looks goofy fun.

Just saw a 1v1v1v1 now too. Hahahaha.

 

[Data West]

What are the combos in this game looking like? I've been enjoying Injustic2 but it reminded me how much I hate specific inputs in fighting games and prefer more simple/positional combos like Gundam EXVS

 

[DKL]

What are the combos in this game looking like? I've been enjoying Injustic2 but it reminded me how much I hate specific inputs in fighting games and prefer more simple/positional combos like Gundam EXVS

It's looking like you can get a few hits off of certain setups, but you're likely not gonna be watching long movies when put into a juggle...

But I'm not completely sure since I don't know the rules for how this stuff works in this game yet.

(system guide pls ;_

 

[BGBW]

https://scontent.fsgn3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/18556982_1401103259935570_7468581338161763542_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=579702f64d6aff0b7eb5048ae69fc5e8&oe=59BCE69E
Really

Hang on. These are not my glasses.

 

[Shahadan]

ARMS will outsell MK8D by the end of the year.

Not that many people seem interested and some others are still stuck with "motion controls lol"
Maybe the demo will change that but there isn't that many Switches in the wild so the impact will be limited.

Modest success is likely

 

[Totakeke]

Arena fighting games like Virtual On and Gundam VS don't really have combos do they? In ARMS, it seems like distance and timing plays a big factor whether you can even do a two hit combo (left and right arms hitting one after another) so it's not like a traditional fighting game where you just memorize button sequences to execute a combo and automatically expect it to work as long the first action hits. Also there's a huge variability in the damage done during a special attack so there must be more optimal punch timing and distance to maximize damage. And then you can also do additional damage if you manage to hit someone after they get hit and bounce on something (like a trampoline).

 

[Penguin]

I know it was mentioned in the direct but kind of glossed over

There's a 1 v 1 v 1 mode as well
Which is kind of gnarly

Also looks chaotic

 

[Shahadan]

I'll be trying a 1v1v1v1 match with Byte&Barq only asap

 

[ShockingAlberto]

My recollection of Gundam Versus is sometimes getting fucked Marvel-style.

 

[B00TE]

I'll be trying a 1v1v1v1 match with Byte&Barq only asap

This would be amazing

 

[LegendofLex]

ARMS will outsell MK8D by the end of the year.

I would be surprised if MK8D wasn't the best-selling Switch game of 2017.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Arena fighting games like Virtual On and Gundam VS don't really have combos do they?

They do, Gundam especially. There's a mechanic called rainbow step that allows you cancel an attack, either to back off or to continue with a combo.

 

[Principate]

Arena fighting games like Virtual On and Gundam VS don't really have combos do they? In ARMS, it seems like distance and timing plays a big factor whether you can even do a two hit combo (left and right arms hitting one after another) so it's not like a traditional fighting game where you just memorize button sequences to execute a combo and automatically expect it to work as long the first action hits. Also there's a huge variability in the damage done during a special attack so there must be more optimal punch timing and distance to maximize damage. And then you can also do additional damage if you manage to hit someone after they get hit and bounce on something (like a trampoline).

A lot of traditional fighters aren't that simple either in terms of maintaining a combo.

I'll be trying a 1v1v1v1 match with Byte&Barq only asap

That would be madness.....

 

[Tathanen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWwxP6Eu68Y

I like how Ribbon Girl's stage is just straight-up the Mario Kart 8 Electrodrome.

 

[Neiteio]

I bet most of you know this, but once you download the Testpunch, if you leave it running at the title screen, it'll go through a pretty much infinite number of randomly generated attract reels: 1v1, 2v2, 2P splitscreen, 4P splitscreen, Hoops, V-Ball, Skillshot, etc. It was cool getting a glimpse of real-time/direct-feed Twinette and Byte & Barq on my TV!

 

[skypunch]

It will do well, but nah.



Monolith's incapability of making good character models in X was due to working on a mid tier budget and not being able to afford a top tier staff to make the in game models, but that has nothing to do with Elma's art design, which looks like this



Give her to SSB/ARMS designers (or a bigger budget to Monolith for the sequel if/when that happens) and she'd look amazing.

The hell are you on about? Couldn't afford "top tier" staff to make the in game models? Monolith Soft use their in game staff to model the characters. The only reason you *think* they did a botched job is because the art itself doesn't translate so well into 3D, it's not that the modellers themselves are incapable.

I meant design and art wise. She looks bad, like most characters from that franchise.

All three games have different character art styles. No idea why you feel you need to attack the franchise. Your opinion on her design and your moving of goalposts doesn't negate the fact that she is a brown-skinned character from a Nintendo game that came before ARMS.

 

[Totakeke]

A lot of traditional fighters aren't that simple either in terms of maintaining a combo.

Are you talking about a 10+ hit combo or just a bread and butter combo? Because the latter exists and isn't difficult. Hitting even a 2 hit combo in ARMS is much more difficult.

 

[Mista Koo]

Monolith's incapability of making good character models in X was due to working on a mid tier budget and not being able to afford a top tier staff to make the in game models, but that has nothing to do with Elma's art design, which looks like this



Give her to SSB/ARMS designers (or a bigger budget to Monolith for the sequel if/when that happens) and she'd look amazing.

Huh, so she's not even meant to be brown in the first place.

 

[skypunch]

Huh, so she's not even meant to be brown in the first place.

She's sitting right next to a luminescent plant which is probably giving her skin a lighter tone. It's also concept art.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

It was cool getting a glimpse of real-time/direct-feed Twinette and Byte & Barq on my TV!

It's Twintella.

 

[Speely]

It's Twintella.

Is this intentional misspelling a meme now/already? GAF moves too fast for me.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Is this intentional misspelling a meme now/already? GAF moves too fast for me.

Twinnetta

 

[Dark Cloud]

I wonder if Nintendo will show the Friends option for ARMS.