" Why even bother? The boss fights are arguably the best thing about the games and you choose to virtually skip them? Shame on you." This is also in the op, it's just not the title. Also saying that summoning is same as skipping the boss is huge hyperbole. Not sure how you see that as sane and reasonable? And why even go there, why comment on what others are doing. Share how you enjoy the games, but why tell others how they should play. People are probably playing in a way that fits them, is most fun to them. Isn't that the point afterall? Not anykind of gamer cred or a religious experience that you can have if you follow OP:s lead.
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Summoning other players/NPCs in Souls makes bosses trivial and you should feel bad
- Thread starter Imp the Dimp
- Start date
" Why even bother? The boss fights are arguably the best thing about the games and you choose to virtually skip them? Shame on you." This is also in the op, it's just not the title. Also saying that summoning is same as skipping the boss is huge hyperbole. Not sure how you see that as sane and reasonable? And why even go there, why comment on what others are doing. Share how you enjoy the games, but why tell others how they should play. People are probably playing in a way that fits them, is most fun to them. Isn't that the point afterall? Not anykind of gamer cred or a religious experience that you can have if you follow OP:s lead.
The attitude I really don't get is playing offline, not saying it's wrong just not for me. While I only summon after soloing and usually just NPC's I would hate to lose the on your toes feeling of invasion.
I hate co-op especially pvp and usually play things single player, but there isn't any rush better than getting invaded when your at your lowest but turning the tables and surviving. Gives me a greater rush than beating any boss or mob.
I hate co-op especially pvp and usually play things single player, but there isn't any rush better than getting invaded when your at your lowest but turning the tables and surviving. Gives me a greater rush than beating any boss or mob.
texhnolyze
Banned
I can't believe that there are people who defend his argument. This thread made it this long proves it.
Souls community.
TRUE ORDER
Member
Well, I used some help once in a boss in BB.
But didn't know I shouldn't have done it lol
But didn't know I shouldn't have done it lol
LordKasual
Banned
when people don't look at the porn I look at, I believe they're robbing themselves of some of the most memorable faps too
Sora the Cat
Member
I just bought DS3 to play it coop with a friend, finishing each area twice so we can progress together. I finished Dark Souls 1 without online and I loved it. I also love playing Dark Souls 3 with my friend, even tho it can be easier.
Game is pretty cool both ways, idk op.
Game is pretty cool both ways, idk op.
theangrypirate
Member
I've never summoned a friend (or bot) to help aid me in a souls fight. Fuck that shit. It's like using a cheat code.
How would you know how easy or not easy it is? Because you've seen people post on the Internet that it's easy?
Overestimating the intelligence of his audience. Hmmm.
Yeah, he made the mistake of overestimating the intelligence of his audience and probably thought everyone would realize he wasn't being dead serious.
He should have remembered how gamers reacted to Jimmy Kimmel. Gamers are sensitive. They can't handle poking fun.
Wow, it's just like politics! Every embarrassing or incriminating statement retroactively turns out to be a joke, no matter how little sense it makes.
Nice try, but no. You and the OP are the only jokes here.
All right, his point still stands as "others don't play with summons, because I enjoy playing solo". That's still dumb thing to make a thread about, even without the "poking fun" part. Maybe it's OP that isn't very intelligent? And maybe there's something wrong with you too for not realizing it.
Gentle ribbing
I'll use Witcher as an example because Souls community here absolutely adores it. It has multiple difficulties. When someone says they aren't liking the combat, you get two kinds of responses. To put it on Death March where it gets interesting or to put it on easiest just to get over it. It depends entirely on the player which one suits them, there's no saying that everyone will enjoy it more (or at all) on one exact way.
Christ, how is this thread so long?
Summoning is an integral part of the Souls series, just like invasions. It's fun for people who need the help, it's fun for people who want to help others, and it's fun for people who just want to play with others. I have more fun playing without summons because I prefer a challenge, but I also have fun helping other people beat a difficult boss as a summon.
Summoning is an integral part of the Souls series, just like invasions. It's fun for people who need the help, it's fun for people who want to help others, and it's fun for people who just want to play with others. I have more fun playing without summons because I prefer a challenge, but I also have fun helping other people beat a difficult boss as a summon.
After missing out on things in game by not summoning, I vowed to never let another NPC sign go untouched again. Why the hell is there a summon at Moonlight Butterfly of all places anyway?
ForsakenLotus
Member
How dare I have fun fighting Dark Souls bosses with real life friends!
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
People who believe "Other people must play like me so that they can be called 'legitimate' and 'right' are the most pathetic kind of people. And yes, this include the OP.
So long as other people don't cheat or do harmful things to others, why the fuck should anyone care?
So long as other people don't cheat or do harmful things to others, why the fuck should anyone care?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Co - op is fun, but it is kind of annoying when people boast about it then you find out they basically had someone hold their hand the whole way through
Anyways, the Souls games are not even that hard op, get back to me after clearing the Ys series on Nightmare.
Anyways, the Souls games are not even that hard op, get back to me after clearing the Ys series on Nightmare.
The title of the thread being a meme should have been your first clue. http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/your-musics-bad-and-you-should-feel-bad
You can't expect people knowing all memes. Some of us have lives outside internet and we aren't constantly playing Souls games and sharing stupid memes.
The "I have a life" is a poor excuse in gaming discussion. It would imply that no one who disagrees with you has a life and isn't much better than what the OP is saying.
Yeah, it was ment as "gentle ribbing" to that poster. The point was being as idiotic as OP.
Dark Souls 2 has a bunch of them. Luckily, Bonfire Ascetics let you easily refight bosses with summons.
I like dedicated PvP zones I don't like being invaded I don't like notes or stains to even give somewhat a hint that something might be coming up, I also like that even Im having trouble with a boss thats on me no summoning for help or an NPC or any sort of Notes for hints its all up to my ability to beat the game. Its different for everyone I have played every Souls game and Bloodborne offline so never felt the rush of someone invading me I guess I just think of it as purely "me vs the game* rather then the off chance of some dickhead ruining that for me.
I hate memes like I hate Dark Souls but it's just unavoidable if you spend any time here. https://www.google.com/#q="and+you+should+feel+bad"+neogaf+site:www.neogaf.com It's used all the damn time.
Someone is even elitist about wearing crocs. Can you believe that? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1228400
Ritzboof
Member
i have no shame in doing 3v1 against pontiff and the nameless king. pontiff first phase is a huge drag, and nameless king is really an awful boss imo. i absolutely hated that shit, just dodge a billion attacks and get one or two hits in whenever you can because you cant hitstun them. if you get hit, or you roll twice because of the heinous input buffer for rolls, you lose all control of the situation and youre just sort of fucked. yeah, it sure is hard. you made your point, dark souls
i have that problem mostly with the bosses that dont react to you whatsoever when you hit them, but are still just jacked versions of the normal combat you went through a bunch of to get there in the first place. 90% dodging endless attacks that do massive damage and 10% getting one or two hits in at a time just isnt fun for me
i had a far better time fighting the likes of aldritch, because he was different and there was a lot more optimization and moving around involved, and the abyss watchers, because skillful defense actually rewarded you with an opportunity to get plenty of hits in because they arent just statues. the 2v1v1 part of the fight is awesome, too, and the final phase is climactic
that all said, if you need 3 people to beat a boss, it really doesnt make it all that much easier since it jacks up their HP and your buddies are also nerfed. i did play against most of the bosses during the latter half of the game with one other friend, though, and i thought it was a good time
i have that problem mostly with the bosses that dont react to you whatsoever when you hit them, but are still just jacked versions of the normal combat you went through a bunch of to get there in the first place. 90% dodging endless attacks that do massive damage and 10% getting one or two hits in at a time just isnt fun for me
i had a far better time fighting the likes of aldritch, because he was different and there was a lot more optimization and moving around involved, and the abyss watchers, because skillful defense actually rewarded you with an opportunity to get plenty of hits in because they arent just statues. the 2v1v1 part of the fight is awesome, too, and the final phase is climactic
that all said, if you need 3 people to beat a boss, it really doesnt make it all that much easier since it jacks up their HP and your buddies are also nerfed. i did play against most of the bosses during the latter half of the game with one other friend, though, and i thought it was a good time
Hmm, I don't think that warning about health hazards is elitism. The thread isn't about how the shoes look, then I would absolutely agree! Like those threads about cargopants, those are full of elitists telling people what they should wear because they don't personally like the look.
While the tone in the title and OP aren't helping, it's also the underlying message that makes people react like they do. OP is trying to tell people to play games in his way, like he would be the authority on this and know what is good for others. This isn't thread worthy, there's no discussion to be had, even OP understood that and didn't come back.
Salty Rice
Member
People should do easy mode if they want to.
Not everyone can git gud.
But they should feel bad indeed.
Not everyone can git gud.
But they should feel bad indeed.
Thanks for the answer because I was geniunly asking not trolling.
Still doesn't sound like it's for me but I guess I get the reasoning.
Besides I am a play the way you have fun sort of guy.
So because the title of the thread half coincides with a meme, the words in the post arbitrarily mean something other than what they actually say? Cool.
Except for the ones that happen to be convenient for you, of course. Those ones are meant to be taken literally, I'm sure.
afternoon delight
Member
I loved going through the necessary steps to bring him to the
final showdown.
Banjo Tango
Member
Co-op MAKES these games... In every soulsborne* game, I have never solo'd a boss that I didn't have to.
Jolly Cooperation 4 Eva.
(*Except for Demon's, but that was just because I didn't realize you *could* summon).
Jolly Cooperation 4 Eva.
(*Except for Demon's, but that was just because I didn't realize you *could* summon).
potatohead
Member
This.
I wanted to beat the game and I have other shit to do. I summoned on Rom because I couldn't beat him after several tries and was not in the mood.
Was fun, enjoyed the game, love the game.
pretty done
Member
I think I get the most enjoyment out of Souls from summoning two friends and just ganking an invader the whole night.
I think its a bad idea to criticize someone for a playstyle. As long as they aren't cheating, I don't see a problem with using summons. Co oping bosses is actually fun and you get a ton of souls when co oping especially some of the later game bosses. Some bosses are designed with co op in mind anyway so I don't think its that big of a deal if someone wants to co op the bosses.
How can it defeat the purpose of the game when it gives you the option to do so. It's not like people are using 3rd party tools to do this. And while beating a hard game or even just a boss can be really rewarding, if the person isn't enjoying the process to get there, what's the point. Taking on a challenge with a partner is fun too, you should try it sometime.
The title of the post being a meme tells us that the tone of the post is jovial.
I don't know OP and don't care about Dark Souls. It's not convenient or inconvenient.
Ill summon people for a boss I dont have fun with. But only after ive beaten it myself on another play-through.
Like the Curse Rotted greatwood. Its not hard but its not fun. Its just a lame boss with horrible music.
I did get mad at my friend for summoning for help against Midir then bragging to other people about beating bloodborne even though i carried him through every other boss
Like the Curse Rotted greatwood. Its not hard but its not fun. Its just a lame boss with horrible music.
I did get mad at my friend for summoning for help against Midir then bragging to other people about beating bloodborne even though i carried him through every other boss
Riposte
Member
If you were going to troll, this is the thread to do it.
However, the notion that it is a "gamer" thing kind of overlooks how the whole internet tends to operate around angry or gloating knee-jerking to headlines and 140 character messages.
Bosses don't become trifling, but they are certainly a bit neutered in a comparison. I largely disagree this extra stuff resolves the difference. There's simply no understating how much target switching or splitting up multiple bosses changes the fundamental dynamic of that battle. The mere fact that you can jog away from a devastating hit to heal without pursuit changes what it means to take that hit in the first place. It's when you are on tilt and the boss(es) are not letting up is where the magic of Dark Souls combat really happens. Everything in the enemy design "matters" more in those moments; turn down the dial, and those very same details matter less overall. We are not talking about changing some stats or even a few behaviors, this is the flow of combat being disrupted on the fundamental level combat works in these games. It's a huge change, to say the least.
The matter of "e-honor" is really on the other foot I think. I've noticed this is a common and ironic occurrence in discussions about difficulty - the "elitist" is less concerned with reputation or "cred" than the people who feel attacked (as it is their reputation and cred which has been attacked). The aggressive response to the OP's crude comments is actually an attempt to defend one's "e-honor", while the OP, in spite of a controversial tone, is quite clear in not being concerned with it.
What reason does the OP suggest for not using co-op? Because of fun, playing for fun. The reason you shouldn't do it is not because it makes you a "better player", but, as he puts it, you would be "robbing yourself of some of the most memorable single player gaming experience either way". It's quite possible for "purists" to develop their beliefs in such a way it conveniently elevate themselves on some social hierarchy (an ever-present distraction in criticism), that's the accusation here, but the truest expression of the idea is that their love for something is so powerful they drive their attention inwards to the point where they stop being considerate of lesser ways to enjoy something. What's elevated is the game (the fun you have from it); ideas which lower it are rejected outright in a matter of fact way.
However, there is truth to the notion that there being a "better way to play" can be insulting to someone's experience, especially if there are barriers which prevent them from being able to do it that way (e.g., skill becomes valuable and in the process their lack of skill becomes a deficient they are increasingly made aware of). To put it bluntly, the idea that Souls bosses without co-op is the better way to play it says people who don't do that way have inferior experiences and what is a gamer if not someone who experiences games, so they are also inferior gamers - bye-bye gamer cred! But is the guy who wants the game to be as enjoyable as possible really more concerned about gamer cred than someone who is told their experience is inferior? You are perceiving a motivation based on the "damage" being done, but this exchange of social value is kind of happening all in your head; someone's just being a little too passionate about Dark Souls and is blind to stepping on others' toes. Nothing spells out the backlash more as a pride thing than how much of this conversation has been directed entirely around tone. Another red flag is being more concerned with an established image of "groups" being bullies, like the Dark Souls fanbase, rather than the actual premise being brought up. Your post is actually one of the few that addresses it.
Not I think the OP did the right thing; you have to account for human nature in any conversation, so there's little benefit to opening with derision unless you want to deal with a bunch of defensiveness. The other side of it though is that I'm thoroughly unimpressed with that defensiveness, especially when it borders on projection with the whole "e-honor" or gamer cred business. I really can't see what's so special about this: if we can have conversations making fun of people putting ketchup on steak or if they listen to Limp Bizkit, why not the ways they fight videogame bosses?
(The whole co-op thing isn't an exciting issue for me, despite having my reasons to think it's better skipping on, but the same patterns are found everywhere - who wants to talk about save-scumming? whew!)
Vigilant Gambit
Member
Ultimately, I agree with the core of the sentiment, which is that there is a level of enjoyment of the game that you cut yourself off from if you have help to defeat bosses.
The nuance, though, is that the nature of that enjoyment is entirely different from what you get with summons.
Summoning is a blast in these games specifically because it makes bosses so much easier. It's the one time in the game where you get to feel as though you're in control (without putting hours in, anyway).
So I'd say play the game in whatever way makes you enjoy it the most. I know the punishing/unforgiving shit isn't for everyone. Doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to enjoy the game.