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[Ted]

From my own point of view, as an original PS4 owner, he's not entirely wrong that the X isn't competing with the Pro for my money.

At this point in the gen I've had my PS4 for a few years and I basically have three option:

1) Stick with what I have;
2) Upgrade to a Pro and play the same games with [mostly] better graphics;
3) Buy an S/X and get a whole new set of games or a whole new set of games and a potential upgrade.

Since option 2 isn't enough of a change to justify the cost for me, X isn't really competing with the Pro at all and is only really competing with the S or keeping the money.

 

[softie]

I guess being so far behind really hurts this man.
More than one year later and 100$ more expensive and still can't get 4K in every game must sting a lot.

 

[Blizzje]

I don't because it does not have enough ram to do 4k textures and 4k assets.

Do you think the XOX has enough to handle ultra/4k assets? Because that's essentially what would differentiate it for me from the pro.

 

[borges]

haha, Phil's touching many souls around here

 

[jeffram]

It's reverse 900p all over again.

Except the price isn't upside down in this case. Diminishing returns is real on resolution when appoaching 4k.

 

[valkyre]

Oh Phill... why the arrogance? I mean come on bro, PR and all but fuck me lol.

Lets go next level and say that ps4 competitor is xbox 360 because, why the fack not

 

[Rover99]

Phil sounds like a salty ex-girlfriend. I understand doing PR but intentionally trying to demean your competition is not something I expect from Phil. Its not a good look. You're better than that, give credit where credit is due. PS4 Pro came to market quicker, achieves 4K like graphics with checkerboarding and is $100 cheaper than Xbx. That's quite the accomplishment, Phil.

 

[FunkMiller]

Dude had better hope people actually give that much of a shit about 4k then...

 

[onQ123]

All this tell me is that Sony was smarter & able to make a 4K console out of their PS4 revisionary vs Xbox One revision in 2016 that still ended up good enough to compete with the new Xbox that's being released a year later.

 

[potatohead]

Is it legal to make this kind of statements? To promote your product by saying how inferior is the competitor's,whether that's true or not.

There's nothing wrong with embellishments in advertising.

It's on consumers, the few that will know about this, to decide if such messaging is holding any truth and how much or if it is even relevant.

I can answer the last part at least.... Basically not relevant at all.

And the end of the day sales will tell us the winner in this particular battle and Spencer's team is very, very far behind.

 

[Data Ghost]

I have owned pretty much every games console since the Sega Megadrive. I won't be buying the Xbox One X.

It may be the most powerful console, but the majority of the games they showed could just as easily run on any other current console, Switch included.

Show me the POWER Phil, maybe then I'd bite, but as it stands nothing screamed OMFG THIS IS TEH MOST POWERFUL CONSOLE I HAVE EVER SEEN LOOK AT ALL TEH MEGAHURTS ON SCREEN .LFJRFLK;/ERJGL;KEJGV/EGBD!!!!!!1

 

[FairXchange]

So why aren't companies making Xbox One S patches to support high resolution and enhanced graphics? This is something only being done for Xbox One X and PS4 Pro. Good try though Phil.

 

[Carn82]

4k textures and 4k assets.

Im curious: I understand what you are getting at, but do you really think that every texture in a '4k' game is a full '4k texture'? And what does a '4k asset' even mean? Even in you run a game with simple textures, simple objects, models and geometry in native 4k it will still be a native 4k game.

 

[Monkeyball]

Console warz <3

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oh man. I love me some Phil, but come on.

 

[potatohead]

Im curious: I understand what you are getting at, but do you really think that every texture in a '4k' game is a full '4k texture'? And what does a '4k asset' even mean? Even in you run a game with simple textures, simple objects, models and geometry in native 4k it will still be a native 4k game.

That's the beauty of (westernized/Americanized) advertising saying nothing while saying a lot while saying absolutely nothing at all.

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

After Digital Foundaries deep analysis on checker board rendering wizardry looking just as good I am fine with playing "Untrue 4k" games.

 

[Black_Red]

All this tell me is that Sony was smarter & able to make a 4K console out of their PS4 revisionary vs Xbox One revision in 2016 that still ended up good enough to compete with the new Xbox that's being released a year later.

But the pro isnt a 4K console. If you have a big 4K TV, and you want to play on native res without buying a PC, Xbox one X is the only option.


MS got a lot of hate on xbox one with their games running in a lower res than PS4, probably the reason they're focusing so much on having an option to go full 4k.

 

[kennyamr]

.

 

[funkystudent]

Does that mean the Xbox one isn't a PS4 competitor since it isn't a true HD system?


Jeez Phil. Pot shots and jabs are part of the fun of the industry but that's a little console warsy for you. Leave that to Greenberg

 

[notaskwid]

He's right.

 

[tapedeck]

Go home Phil, you're drunk.

 

[InsaneTiger]

That's the beauty of (westernized/Americanized) advertising saying nothing while saying a lot while saying absolutely nothing at all.

We are the Kings when it comes to talking a lot without meaning anything.

 

[Mash83]

I agree, the arrogance is not a good look. He really expects them to sell more units at twice the cost of the S?

Come on, the pro has a 150 price gap and they are selling just 1 in 5 compared to the ps4 slim.

He's either lying to feign confidence or just delusional.

I'm honestly surprised, Phil is usually pretty genuine and more transparent than this.

 

[MetalliCabombination]

Do people consider the PS4 Pro a real and full 4K system? (If we leave out this pseudo-4K checkerboard crap)

Setting aside what you consider ps4's 4k to be. Does a samsung having more ram than an iphone suddenly start meaning theyre not competing? Competition comes from market, and content and price are the two key factors here.
Theyre both mid gen upgrades to base consoles that have been om the market for 4 years, one chooses the 400 bucks price tag and the other chooses the 500 one. Neither are performing miracles at their price. Its up to the consumerto decide what they value more.

Theyre competing products plain and simple.
He simply says this because he doesnt want to address the same question from 2013 where ms was providing more for 500 bucks and the consumers picked the cheaper one.

And assuming theres little difference bw pro and s, is he saying he chose to ignore the ps4's carnage, in favor of catering to a niche market( pro) and some special market we dont even know exists(x) let alone how big it is.

 

[quest]

Im curious: I understand what you are getting at, but do you really think that every texture in a '4k' game is a full '4k texture'? And what does a '4k asset' even mean? Even in you run a game with simple textures, simple objects, models and geometry in native 4k it will still be a native 4k game.

Not every game has 4k textures but those that do will see a huge difference on the X1X. Even games with out 4k textures there will be a some difference. When I see the comparison shots of the Pro and PC the thing that really sticks out to me are the OG PS4 level textures and lower level AF. Resolution is only part of it but easiest to market these days compared to textures and other items.

 

[BRocknRolla]

But the pro isnt a 4K console. If you have a big 4K TV, and you want to play on native res without buying a PC, Xbox one X is the only option.


MS got a lot of hate on xbox one with their games running in a lower res than PS4, probably the reason they're focusing so much on having an option to go full 4k.

And you'll be able to play *some* games at 4k, or 4k-dynamic. If you want the play all games at 4k, without buying a PC, there will be no option. The numbers do not work out unless sacrifices are going to be made to make sure everything game hits 4k.

Nevermind that there are in fact 4k games on Pro, but those of course won't count.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Wait, so if there are already games that aren't going to be native 4K, does that also make the X1X also not a true 4K system?

 

[BRocknRolla]

Wait, so if there are already games that aren't going to be native 4K, does that also make the X1X also not a true 4K system?

Marketing. Which people eat up, as evidenced by this thread.

 

[Carn82]

Not every game has 4k textures but those that do will see a huge difference on the X1X. Even games with out 4k textures there will be a some difference. When I see the comparison shots of the Pro and PC the thing that really sticks out to me are the OG PS4 level textures and lower level AF. Resolution is only part of it but easiest to market these days compared to textures and other items.

Yeah, but not every game will have 2k, 4k (or higher!) textures on X1X. It will still be a native 4k game. Just as WipeOut Omega Collection on PS4 Pro, for example.

 

[Angel_DvA]

Spencer always speaking about first party games but still haven't done shit about it, it's like California talking about water...

 

[BigTnaples]

No AAA title is going to ship with native 4K.

Well that's not true at all..



The Division is native 4K on PS4 Pro, with enhanced. Shadows and reflections and it's one of the best looking games in existence. Let a lone open world.




(Which reminds me, where the hell is the DF video on that? It's an amazing achievement, would love to see an analysis.)

 

[JWiLL]

I mean...he's not wrong, but the Xbox One X is only a "true 4k" console in that it can play Xbox One games at 4k.

Which typically means the equivalent of PC medium graphics settings and 30 FPS, with a few exceptions (Forza).

I think both Sony & MS pushed way too quickly in to the 4k market, but Sony at least has exclusives out the ass to push with checkerboard 4k or whatever they can manage.

Still not sure where the "must have" title is on Xbox One X.

 

[greenmind]

I posted this on the verge...

"This was purely a strategic power move by Microsoft.

1. They will be in the power lead as far as the fast rig for the next 2 years.
2. PS5 will come out in 2019 or 2020 and be 40% faster than the XB1X, but it will be $449, where by that point the XB1X will be $249 and 4k sets will be the norm and most parents and kids will really be fine with the $249 console that plays pretty much the same games minus some framerates.

They are trying to flip the game so to say…"

 

[Zyae]

Cough Destiny 2 30fps..

shitty engine doesnt mean a bad console.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

yeah, so you keep saying...

He's been saying that now for how long now?

 

[gofreak]

“When I think about techniques to somehow manufacture a 4K screen like what some other consoles try to do, this is different than that.”

So is he promising no non-native techniques?

Interesting to see how well that's kept.

 

[MetalliCabombination]

Wait, so if there are already games that aren't going to be native 4K, does that also make the X1X also not a true 4K system?

Digital foundry already said ms recommends sparse rendering, which is basically what ps4 does, to efficiently use power.
Ac origins is dynamic 4k already.

 

[Strings]

lol yeah okay.

 

[McHuj]

I love it.

 

[Carn82]

I posted this on the verge...

"This was purely a strategic power move by Microsoft.

1. They will be in the power lead as far as the fast rig for the next 2 years.
2. PS5 will come out in 2019 or 2020 and be 40% faster than the XB1X, but it will be $449, where by that point the XB1X will be $249 and 4k sets will be the norm and most parents and kids will really be fine with the $249 console that plays pretty much the same games minus some framerates.

They are trying to flip the game so to say…"

Well, if we believe Cerny than the PS5 will be something 'substantially' different. It might be backwards-compatible with PS4; but I sincerely doubt if "PS5 games" will play on the PS4's. So if that scenario turns out to be true; the 'next generation' will start with the PS5; and Sony will probably have the exclusives to push the machines.

 

[onQ123]

But the pro isnt a 4K console. If you have a big 4K TV, and you want to play on native res without buying a PC, Xbox one X is the only option.


MS got a lot of hate on xbox one with their games running in a lower res than PS4, probably the reason they're focusing so much on having an option to go full 4k.

Yeah have fun with that while trying to explain why the games on a "4k console" don't look much different from the games on a console that "isn't a 4K console"

 

[eerik9000]

I posted this on the verge...

"This was purely a strategic power move by Microsoft.

1. They will be in the power lead as far as the fast rig for the next 2 years.
2. PS5 will come out in 2019 or 2020 and be 40% faster than the XB1X, but it will be $449, where by that point the XB1X will be $249 and 4k sets will be the norm and most parents and kids will really be fine with the $249 console that plays pretty much the same games minus some framerates.

They are trying to flip the game so to say…"

I'm pretty sure PS5 won't use Jaguar and 8.4 TFLOPS Polaris as you seem to imply.

 

[Poimandres]

But the pro isnt a 4K console. If you have a big 4K TV, and you want to play on native res without buying a PC, Xbox one X is the only option.

There are native 4K games on PS4 Pro. Not every Xbox One X game will be native 4K.

He's right.

If you actually use some kind of measure of overall power for the systems, is he right? Isn't the PS4 4.1tflops and the new Xbox 6, and Xbox One S 1.4? The maths... It don't add up.

Not every game has 4k textures but those that do will see a huge difference on the X1X. Even games with out 4k textures there will be a some difference. When I see the comparison shots of the Pro and PC the thing that really sticks out to me are the OG PS4 level textures and lower level AF. Resolution is only part of it but easiest to market these days compared to textures and other items.

Xbox One X isn't going to match up to top of the line PCs. The CPU alone clinches that deal.

 

[gofreak]

Digital foundry already said ms recommends sparse rendering, which is basically what ps4 does, to efficiently use power.
Ac origins is dynamic 4k already.

Well then, claiming Scorpio isn't dabbling in those techniques isn't a good look for Phil if that's a standard that's already being sidestepped.

I know he wants a simple differentiation from Pro, but he shouldn't over-reach.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Feels bad when I find out my Pro running Wipeout at 4K isn't actually a 4K system.

Spoiler

Feel the bern.

 

[MetalliCabombination]

I posted this on the verge...

"This was purely a strategic power move by Microsoft.

1. They will be in the power lead as far as the fast rig for the next 2 years.
2. PS5 will come out in 2019 or 2020 and be 40% faster than the XB1X, but it will be $449, where by that point the XB1X will be $249 and 4k sets will be the norm and most parents and kids will really be fine with the $249 console that plays pretty much the same games minus some framerates.

They are trying to flip the game so to say…"

One little problem in this brilliant plan is that it assumes consoles from here on are infinity forward compatible. What exactly makes you think with ps5 in the market, ms will put all their money into keeping support alive for xb1x if sony decides against forward compatibility?
What youre essentially suggesting is that ms plans to sell super cheap 360's as its main console while sony sells ps4s, comparing it to the current scenario.

 

[PeskyToaster]

It's a bit disingenuous to talk about true 4k vs. fake 4k. When it comes to these things faking it is just as good as making it. It's all about the give and take in computing performance. The reasonable facsimile that saves resources is often far better for overall performance than an uncompromising implementation. It's just not easy marketing.

 

[Bustanen]

Gonna hold on to this statement when the first 4kpr first party games release.

 

[funkystudent]

shitty engine doesnt mean a bad console.

Surly if the power was there ms would lead by example and Gears 4 and FH3 would be getting 60fps boosts right?