Support NeoGAF

[benjipwns]

Jesus... that's horrifying. That's one of the more unsettling descriptions of an injury I've ever read.

He did not deserve this.

Friend was in a car accident from a drunk driver once and had a similar injury to the pelvic area along with one that required immediate open heart surgery when he got to the hospital.

The pelvis injury was way worse long term and harder to recover from and the doctors were a thousand times more concerned about it. One of those things that's backwards in your head until you learn about it.

wtf is GOP baseball?

The House plays a baseball game for charity every year, Democrats vs. Republicans.

Ron Paul was one of the GOP's stars for years. I think he still has the HR record?

 

[Dangansona]

I love how this is being spun into a Bernie thing. Why do the Trump supporters I know seem to think that all Trump supporters are good people and good heavens there couldn't be a couple of bad eggs in there?

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Sounds like part of the bowel was removed. Ends could be stapled off.
Stoppage of hemorrhage is done at the first operation. A Level I (highest level) trauma center like Medstar Washington doesn't fuck around and ignore obvious bleeding during the first operation. The goals of the operation are to stop bleeding and then contain contamination, i.e, quickly patch up any holes in the intestine/stomach/bladder. If the patient is still stable after those goals are reached, then you try to perform definitive repairs, like connecting ends of bowels back together, etc. If the patient is too cold, acidotic or coagulopathic, then the trauma surgeon is supposed to place a temporary abdominal dressing and take the patient to the ICU for ongoing resuscitation. Keep the patient alive to come back and fight another day. This is called damage control laparotomy.

The "additional procedure" referenced in the tweet is most likely a procedure by interventional radiology to coil the internal iliac blood vessels to stop pelvic bleeding. Radiologists will literally place metallic coils or foam inside the blood vessels and plug it up. Best way to stop bleeding in the pelvis. This can be performed in the same operating room.

Guaranteed that the pelvis itself is still broken up right now. Internal fixation by ortho doesn't occur until patient has the internal organs all taken care of.

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

 

[Stinkles]

Best thing about today is that the only dead guy is the POS who started it.

Small comfort.

I love how this is being spun into a Bernie thing. Why do the Trump supporters I know seem to think that all Trump supporters are good people and good heavens there couldn't be a couple of bad eggs in there?

If it was a Trumpet this thread would be an embarrassment and hopefully a graveyard.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I love how this is being spun into a Bernie thing. Why do the Trump supporters I know seem to think that all Trump supporters are good people and good heavens there couldn't be a couple of bad eggs in there?

Bernie Sanders to them is a far leftist communist, its easy to use this as mental legitimacy for an already broken worldview against progressives and leftists. Of course they say nothing when rightwing political violence occurs. Crickets when the guy assaulting the Muslim girl killed those two people with a knife, or any abortion killing ever.

 

[Fenderputty]

@BraddJaffy 1m1 minute ago
Hospital: the bullet injured Scalise's internal organs and caused severe bleeding; he'll need additional surgeries

I thought he was shit in the hip? Did the bullet bounce around inside him?

 

[mAcOdIn]

It must be because of shrapnel.

The .233 round's expected to tumble around in the body, it doesn't go clean through like a higher caliber bullet would.

I thought he was shit in the hip? Did the bullet bounce around inside him?

probably, what it's meant to do.

 

[Culex]

I thought he was shit in the hip? Did the bullet bounce around inside him?

223 rounds are notorious for "ping ponging" inside you. Never good to be hit center mast.

 

[TestOfTide]

Bernie Sanders to them is a far leftist communist, its easy to use this as mental legitimacy for an already broken worldview against progressives and leftists. Of course they say nothing when rightwing political violence occurs. Crickets when the guy assaulting the Muslim girl killed those two people with a knife, or any abortion killing ever.

I'm gonna guess you meant the numerous scumbags who committed terrorist attacks on places that provide abortions, but you should probably edit that so that no one misreads that as you calling abortion murder.

 

[Psychoward]

223 rounds are notorious for "ping ponging" inside you. Never good to be hit center mast.

yeesh, that sounds fucking awful

 

[kess]

Caught up on this clusterfuck of a OT thread and apparently I'm being called smug and privileged to because my righteous indignation doesn't extend to murder.

The NRA keeps winning, either way.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Marital rape wasn't recognized as a crime in all US states until 1993.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape_(United_States_law)

Also

Man, I'm not trying to get into this debate, but if you're trying to imply that the Bible condones marital rape, literally the NEXT sentence after your bolded section states the inverse is true for the husband as well.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'm gonna guess you meant the numerous scumbags who committed terrorist attacks on places that provide abortions, but you should probably edit that so that no one misreads that as you calling abortion murder.

I am 100% pro choice.

I'm just pointing out hypocrisy, especially because in this case, this guy was mentally imbalanced clearly, even though he had relatively down to earth political views in our current climate.

But just the fact that he was a lefty and, in his mentally imbalanced mind, was targeting the right for what the politicians are doing in power right now is fair game for them to say that leftists are all crazy, when we aren't the ones with militias.

Rand Paul is the guy out there saying the 2nd amendment is specifically put in place to kill people in government if they become 'tyrannical', yet has nothing to say now when a mentally imbalanced individual clearly took those words to heart and showed up at a baseball game he was playing at.

 

[Fenderputty]

The .233 round's expected to tumble around in the body, it doesn't go clean through like a higher caliber bullet would.
probably, what it's meant to do.

223 rounds are notorious for "ping ponging" inside you. Never good to be hit center mast.

I didn't know it was a .223 round. Reminded me of a mob style .22 pistol hit. Which makes sense since the rounds are similar

 

[TestOfTide]

I am 100% pro choice.

I'm just pointing out hypocrisy, especially because in this case, this guy was mentally imbalanced clearly, even though he had relatively down to earth political views in our current climate.

But just the fact that he was a lefty and, in his mentally imbalanced mind, was targeting the right for what the politicians are doing in power right now is fair game for them to say that leftists are all crazy, when we aren't the ones with militias.

Rand Paul is the guy out there saying the 2nd amendment is specifically put in place to kill people in government if they become 'tyrannical', yet has nothing to say now when a mentally imbalanced individual clearly took those words to heart and showed up at a baseball game he was playing at.

I know. I was simply suggesting you edit that part of your post so that someone doesn't mistakenly think you are calling abortion murder.

 

[Alcotholic]

Sounds like part of the bowel was removed. Ends could be stapled off.
Stoppage of hemorrhage is done at the first operation. A Level I (highest level) trauma center like Medstar Washington doesn't fuck around and ignore obvious bleeding during the first operation. The goals of the operation are to stop bleeding and then contain contamination, i.e, quickly patch up any holes in the intestine/stomach/bladder. If the patient is still stable after those goals are reached, then you try to perform definitive repairs, like connecting ends of bowels back together, etc. If the patient is too cold, acidotic or coagulopathic, then the trauma surgeon is supposed to place a temporary abdominal dressing and take the patient to the ICU for ongoing resuscitation. Keep the patient alive to come back and fight another day. This is called damage control laparotomy.

The "additional procedure" referenced in the tweet is most likely a procedure by interventional radiology to coil the internal iliac blood vessels to stop pelvic bleeding. Radiologists will literally place metallic coils or foam inside the blood vessels and plug it up. Best way to stop bleeding in the pelvis. This can be performed in the same operating room.

Guaranteed that the pelvis itself is still broken up right now. Internal fixation by ortho doesn't occur until patient has the internal organs all taken care of.

Wow thats fascinating and informative. Thank you.

 

[Hellwarden]

@BraddJaffy 1m1 minute ago
Hospital: the bullet injured Scalise's internal organs and caused severe bleeding; he'll need additional surgeries

Sounds like part of the bowel was removed. Ends could be stapled off.
Stoppage of hemorrhage is done at the first operation. A Level I (highest level) trauma center like Medstar Washington doesn't fuck around and ignore obvious bleeding during the first operation. The goals of the operation are to stop bleeding and then contain contamination, i.e, quickly patch up any holes in the intestine/stomach/bladder. If the patient is still stable after those goals are reached, then you try to perform definitive repairs, like connecting ends of bowels back together, etc. If the patient is too cold, acidotic or coagulopathic, then the trauma surgeon is supposed to place a temporary abdominal dressing and take the patient to the ICU for ongoing resuscitation. Keep the patient alive to come back and fight another day. This is called damage control laparotomy.

The "additional procedure" referenced in the tweet is most likely a procedure by interventional radiology to coil the internal iliac blood vessels to stop pelvic bleeding. Radiologists will literally place metallic coils or foam inside the blood vessels and plug it up. Best way to stop bleeding in the pelvis. This can be performed in the same operating room.

Guaranteed that the pelvis itself is still broken up right now. Internal fixation by ortho doesn't occur until patient has the internal organs all taken care of.

Jesus, that's horrifying.

I hope he pulls through.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

The .233 round's expected to tumble around in the body, it doesn't go clean through like a higher caliber bullet would.
probably, what it's meant to do.

Oh wow. They were talking on the news like it was high caliber.

 

[teacupcopter]

It's so scary that it can happen. While it's natural to not want to 'get political', the very nature of this attack and the nature of who was attacked, and the party that they stand for MAKES it political.

What if? Gun control. Mental Health funding. They vote to allow guns in wider society, people now have guns to attack politicians. What if he wasn't in Congress, voting against healthcare, then he would be an ordinary citizen, potentially without healthcare.

Even the rhetoric employed by his party- "Targeting" Gifford, "Take Her Out", etc, has led to this.

Even the fact that this will be handled differently because he is white, not muslim. Already on Australian news i saw "Lone wolf shooter". If he was black and his surname was Nazeem or Sahad, it would be 'political assassination attempt" or "Terror plot".

Hell, even his political affiliation will be brought up to try and defend trump in some sick way.

Yes, saying he deserves it due to these factors is wrong and should rightly be called out. But "stop playing politics" is bullshit. Trump has specifically called on people to target political opponents with violence, as have many other republicans, and get to hide behind "I didn't mean it!" at the time. Not anymore. They should rightly be called out, as soon as anything happens.

 

[A Link to the Past]

So your for husbands having the natural right to rape their wives. Genital mutilation? Not sure if you're trolling. Never seen amish do these things.

Spousal rape has been (and possibly still is) legal in the U.S.

 

[FStubbs]

Bernie Sanders to them is a far leftist communist, its easy to use this as mental legitimacy for an already broken worldview against progressives and leftists. Of course they say nothing when rightwing political violence occurs. Crickets when the guy assaulting the Muslim girl killed those two people with a knife, or any abortion killing ever.

Those are okay. Economic anxiety and *whispers* those people need to know their place.

 

[FStubbs]

It's so scary that it can happen. While it's natural to not want to 'get political', the very nature of this attack and the nature of who was attacked, and the party that they stand for MAKES it political.

What if? Gun control. Mental Health funding. They vote to allow guns in wider society, people now have guns to attack politicians. What if he wasn't in Congress, voting against healthcare, then he would be an ordinary citizen, potentially without healthcare.

Even the rhetoric employed by his party- "Targeting" Gifford, "Take Her Out", etc, has led to this.

Even the fact that this will be handled differently because he is white, not muslim. Already on Australian news i saw "Lone wolf shooter". If he was black and his surname was Nazeem or Sahad, it would be 'political assassination attempt" or "Terror plot".

Hell, even his political affiliation will be brought up to try and defend trump in some sick way.

Yes, saying he deserves it due to these factors is wrong and should rightly be called out. But "stop playing politics" is bullshit. Trump has specifically called on people to target political opponents with violence, as have many other republicans, and get to hide behind "I didn't mean it!" at the time. Not anymore. They should rightly be called out, as soon as anything happens.

Scalise is the type of guy who would've cheered if this had happened to a black politician.

Don't get me wrong - I don't want anyone to suffer like this, not even someone like him who would be in favor of shooting me and people like me. I hope he comes out of this with a different world view.

 

[perfectchaos007]

The House plays a baseball game for charity every year, Democrats vs. Republicans.

Ron Paul was one of the GOP's stars for years. I think he still has the HR record?

His grandson played baseball for the University of Houston for 4 years. Baseball runs in their family

 

[Monocle]

Sounds like part of the bowel was removed. Ends could be stapled off.
Stoppage of hemorrhage is done at the first operation. A Level I (highest level) trauma center like Medstar Washington doesn't fuck around and ignore obvious bleeding during the first operation. The goals of the operation are to stop bleeding and then contain contamination, i.e, quickly patch up any holes in the intestine/stomach/bladder. If the patient is still stable after those goals are reached, then you try to perform definitive repairs, like connecting ends of bowels back together, etc. If the patient is too cold, acidotic or coagulopathic, then the trauma surgeon is supposed to place a temporary abdominal dressing and take the patient to the ICU for ongoing resuscitation. Keep the patient alive to come back and fight another day. This is called damage control laparotomy.

The "additional procedure" referenced in the tweet is most likely a procedure by interventional radiology to coil the internal iliac blood vessels to stop pelvic bleeding. Radiologists will literally place metallic coils or foam inside the blood vessels and plug it up. Best way to stop bleeding in the pelvis. This can be performed in the same operating room.

Guaranteed that the pelvis itself is still broken up right now. Internal fixation by ortho doesn't occur until patient has the internal organs all taken care of.

Whew, thanks for the insight.

 

[benjipwns]

His grandson played baseball for the University of Houston for 4 years. Baseball runs in their family

Gods among men:

In 1979, Republican Rep. Ron Paul of Texas hit the first home run over the fence. Rep. John Shimkus of Illinois is the only other player to hit an out-of-the-park home run, doing so in 1997.

lol Democrats won the 2013 game 22-0, juicing probably

 

[Laughing Banana]

This is what happens where you can basically buy guns at your nearest supermarket with basically little to no supervision :/

 

[kendrid]

Spousal rape has been (and possibly still is) legal in the U.S.

No, it is not legal.

 

[Inuhanyou]

http://www.bnd.com/news/local/article156092134.html

This is all of that guy's writings....a significant amount of of he says are things i can fully agree with...

But then how can you understand the left wing's values and yet use violence, even in desperation? To sink to something like this, your not hurting the system of money in politics, your hurting and kneecapping the forces trying to fight against it..

Apparently he caused so much pain for his daughter and her boyfriend that his daughter killed herself by setting herself of fire...what kind of life do you have to lead to understand problems of society but life such a horrible personal life

 

[Media]

People generally don't get how horrible pelvic injuries are. If you break your pelvis, you bleed to death rather quickly. Being shot in that area is almost worse than being shot in the chest.

Hope he pulls through, and everyone else recovers as well.


How the fuck this guy had access to guns considering his record is a debate we likely won't have, sadly.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Bernie Sanders to them is a far leftist communist, its easy to use this as mental legitimacy for an already broken worldview against progressives and leftists. Of course they say nothing when rightwing political violence occurs. Crickets when the guy assaulting the Muslim girl killed those two people with a knife, or any abortion killing ever.

I posts in some conservative forums, and it wasn't crickets, though it was arguably worse. The story then became one about a deranged guy who yelled at a woman before killing two people. No mention of that fact she was Muslim or how dangerous rhetoric incites dangerous people. The story was that some one went crazy for "no reason" and that was that.

 

[Steel]

http://www.bnd.com/news/local/article156092134.html

This is all of that guy's writings....a significant amount of of he says are things i can fully agree with...

But then how can you understand the left wing's values and yet use violence, even in desperation? To sink to something like this, your not hurting the system of money in politics, your hurting and kneecapping the forces trying to fight against it..

Apparently he caused so much pain for his daughter and her boyfriend that his daughter killed herself by setting herself of fire...what kind of life do you have to lead to understand problems of society but life such a horrible personal life

I mean there will always be people in any group of humans that are just horrible human beings. Which is precisely why people like this should not have any access to guns.

 

[Inuhanyou]

^ I guess...

I posts in some conservative forums, and it wasn't crickets, though it was arguably worse. The story then became one about a deranged guy who yelled at a woman before killing two people. No mention of that fact she was Muslim or how dangerous rhetoric incites dangerous people. The story was that some one went crazy for "no reason" and that was that.

That might as well be crickets

 

[EviLore]

Glad to hear that the shooter was brought down and that the victims are all still currently with us.

Oh wow. They were talking on the news like it was high caliber.

.223 ≈ 5.56mm NATO, the standard assault rifle caliber of the western world. It's not a "high caliber" in the literal sense (number: low). What the news is trying to convey is that it's a high energy rifle round rather than a typical handgun round.

From the left you have the colloquial ".22", the .38, and 9mm (favored handgun caliber for most LE/mil/self-defense). All the way on the other side, after the .357 Magnum, is the .223 Rem/5.56 NATO rifle round:

[

You don't want to be hit by bullets, period, but a .223 out of a typical rifle barrel length is not a good time for the victim. It has ~3x the muzzle energy and muzzle velocity of a 9mm from a handgun and the .223's little projectile spins and fragments viciously without over-penetrating. It's far more deadly.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Oh wow. They were talking on the news like it was high caliber.

Almost no "AR" round is high powered. The average AR-15 caliber is dwarfed by the average deer rifle.

Glad to hear that the shooter was brought down and that the victims are all still currently with us.



.223 ≈ 5.56mm NATO, the standard assault rifle caliber of the western world. It's not a "high caliber" in the literal sense (number: low). What the news is trying to convey is that it's a high energy rifle round rather than a typical handgun round.

From the left you have the colloquial ".22", the .38, and 9mm (favored handgun caliber for most LE/mil/self-defense). All the way on the other side, after the .357 Magnum, is the .223 Rem/5.56 NATO rifle round:




You don't want to be hit by bullets, period, but a .223 out of a typical rifle barrel length is not a good time for the victim. It has ~3x the muzzle energy and muzzle velocity of a 9mm from a handgun and the .223's little projectile spins and fragments viciously without over-penetrating. It's far more deadly.

Good info, the .223 round is really designed for velocity and affordable distance. In the end, it isn't considered high powered. .22 and a 380 are baby rounds used for plinking with zero recoil. My 7 year old shoots these calibers. 9mm is a target round, but with home defense rounds can be effective at close range. .40 S&W is basically a LEO caliber, and .45ACP is the beast high powered handgun round. That will stop anything. 10mm is a boutique caliber, and the 38 special might as well be a plink round that most people shoot from their .357 chambered guns that cost too much to shoot.

Now, 308, 30-06, 300 Blackout, 30-30, 7.62 are all common rounds that will literally fucking murder shit at 500 yards consistently and accurately.

 

[boredofcanada]

Spent some effort today explaining that this happened, and of course, no one knew because they are living their lives and the media downplayed it (not everyone reads GAF), but I didn't encounter very much sympathy for the GOP. If this becomes a regular occurrence, then I feel sorry for Trump and his followers (meaning politicians that side with him, not voters). What goes around comes around.

 

[azyless]

Is there any proof he was mentally ill ?

 

[BADMAN]

Is there any proof he was mentally ill ?

Well he was living out of his van and had a temper according to this article.

I wouldn't classify that as mentally ill.

 

[mAcOdIn]

Well, sorry but I should clear this up since I started it, CNN says that the gunman was using a SKS in 7.62x39 not some AR-15 variant in 5.56 so I apologize for my earlier misinformation . Earlier in the day I had heard the gunman was using an AR15 carbine and I was going off that, looks like I was wrong.

 

[azyless]

Well he was living out of his van and had a temper according to this article.

I wouldn't classify that as mentally ill.

Yeah that's what I read as well but I saw several people here say that he was so I wanted to know if that was known or if it was the classic mental health scapegoat.

 

[a.wd]

Is there any proof he was mentally ill ?

I would like to know this.

He might just have had extreme views.

How is this not something that is going to be repeated?

And are the GOP going to remove access to guns or increase the gun access laws for general Americans?

They appear to have painted themselves into a corner with their lone wolf, mental illness narrative for homegrown terrorism.

They are also trying to dig down into the online life of this person and this is going to yield a simple result. They participate in online discussions regarding the current politics of America which are are deeply polarised, the discussion is not coherent largely with bots and large scale anti authoritarian people like alex Jones whipping people into a frenzy.

This is only going to escalate and whilst we can say that violence is abhorrent, can we all agree that in the current climate it is the natural escalation on both sides of the aisle.

You need to get rid of the current political system as it sits right now, less corporate money in politics, and a more equal distribution of wealth, better gun control and more personal liberty.

Or carry on and wonder what could have been done when the next tragedy happens.

 

[Atom Heart Mother]

I love how this is being spun into a Bernie thing. Why do the Trump supporters I know seem to think that all Trump supporters are good people and good heavens there couldn't be a couple of bad eggs in there?

From what I've seen the Trumpfans aren't blaming Bernie, but blaming the violence that is advocated in the media and online against Republicans (supposedly, I don't pay attention much). I agree though, people like Madonna saying to blow up the white house or the beheading girl should just stop this shit because nut jobs do pay attention. But nut jobs will be nut jobs. Thankfully this guy is dead, because only person that deserves to die is him.

 

[BADMAN]

Yeah that's what I read as well but I saw several people here say that he was so I wanted to know if that was known or if it was the classic mental health scapegoat.

Well I guess you could say that anyone who commits a premeditated murder like that is mentally unstable. If I were to guess he probably lost his will to live and decided to "make the world a better place" before going out. Who knows though, the human brain is very complex.

 

[firehawk12]

So is this finally enough for gun control in America?

 

[UnluckyKate]

So is this finally enough for gun control in America?

No way lol they are advocating to let Congressmen carry in DC.

 

[Seventy70]

Gun violence doesn't become real for a lot of people until it happens to them or someone close to them. It's insane the amount of harm a simple pull of a trigger will cause. I hope he recovers and reconsiders his position on them.

Do we know if he was carrying a gun himself?

 

[BADMAN]

So is this finally enough for gun control in America?

Republicans? More surveillance and security.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Is there any proof he was mentally ill ?

You have to be mentally imbalanced in some way to just pick up guns out of the blue and start shooting at people you previously only wrote about, in addition to his history of physical violence which is also one of the flags for gun violence in suspects.

He had apparently been radicalized after the outcome of the election, and had been shooting guns as target practice at trees months ago.

His actual political views based on what we know were not radical in the least for any leftist or progressive. The differentiating factor is that he figured bullets would do better than any non violent solution to our political grievances

 

[azyless]

You have to be mentally imbalanced in some way to just pick up guns out of the blue and start shooting at people you previously only wrote about, in addition to his history of physical violence which is also one of the flags for gun violence in suspects.

That's your (wrong) opinion.

 

[matthewuk]

hannity in an unusual showing of common sense has stated that the recent shooting is not Bernie Sanders fault. And and in a completely typical fashion. breitbart readers are loosing there s*it, he is now a "liberal" traitor.

This extreme partisanship needs to stop on both sides, it's time that anyone else but the Dems and the gop get elected next time as it's getting to far out of hand

 

[Inuhanyou]

That's your (wrong) opinion.

Your saying a normal person would grab some assault rifles and start mowing down people in a blind rage?

This guy apparently has some sort of history of violence, there a flags that either should be picked up with gun regulations and mental health evaluations, if we had stricter guidelines on prevention