Iva Demilcol
Member
"Vita owners are a bunch of perverts"
-Jim Ryan, next week on gaming magazines.
-Jim Ryan, next week on gaming magazines.
-
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Jim Ryan on Indies 'It was just good to talk about in 2013. It is less relevant now'
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
Didn't GAF use to be a place to come to get the full story, as opposed to the place creating endless controversies? Or is that just the idealized way I like to remember oldGAF? Time for a culling.
Anyway, reading the full quote this is more just disappointing than controversial, though Ryan could definitely use some speaking to the press training. The indie focus was one of the main reasons those early PlayStation 4 showcases were so great. Is this new indie frustration a result of the No Man's Sky fiasco?
Anyway, reading the full quote this is more just disappointing than controversial, though Ryan could definitely use some speaking to the press training. The indie focus was one of the main reasons those early PlayStation 4 showcases were so great. Is this new indie frustration a result of the No Man's Sky fiasco?
Bits N Pieces
Member
To the people saying read the article or that's not what he meant, I've read the full article and although the headline is a bit sensationalist the context in which you can take the actual quote is open to interpretation. Which is a fuck up for any suit to make.
The guy just keeps saying the wrong things, like he could get this point across without throwing indies under a bus.
He is basically the PlayStation Yusuf Mehdi. Right intentions, wrong execution.
Great to see so many trying to defend him or justify what he says though, lol.
The guy just keeps saying the wrong things, like he could get this point across without throwing indies under a bus.
He is basically the PlayStation Yusuf Mehdi. Right intentions, wrong execution.
Great to see so many trying to defend him or justify what he says though, lol.
Sony had a particular set of things they wanted to show and limited time. Should they have cut footage of some of their huge 1st party titles to show random indies available on multiple platforms? No company would do that. There is no moral imperative for Sony to show indie games at their E3 presser.
I don't mean to be rude but your personal preference doesn't really matter here. No one is saying that indies have something to prove, but being in these conferences give them a huge marketing help. A lot of my close friends who don't really play a lot came asking me about some of the indies game shown on the MS conference (especially Ashen).
Not every indie game is successful or has the opportunity/budget to market itself, too. So being shown really helps.
Just because you are an indie developer doesn't mean that you are right about this. A lot of these games still need help in the marketing department. The sizzle reel thing is funny because the VR portion of Sony's conference was exactly that: A sizzle reel, which really makes Jim's argument about that bullshit.
And then they show all of the VR games in a quick sizzle reel. Yeah, i don't think Jim really knows what he is talking about.
Complicated
Banned
He basically said showing indies poorly is bad, so they're not really doing it at all while Microsoft is giving them the time necessary to get people talking about them (as well as showing a montage which had some great stuff in it too). Really shitty answer.
Well that's just an open secret at this point.
On the latest episode of Frame Trap (Easy Allies) they briefly talked about how Sony didn't even have any indies at their booth. Zero. Some none at the presser, and none at the booth. That's pretty rough.
Primethius
Banned
Don't think many are defending the fact that he's terrible at PR. But that the full quote isn't problematic...
Maybe they showed some stuff at the pre conference and didnt show them onstage.
Like Matterfall. Dont know if thats indie or not but I dont think they showed it on stage.
I am 100% sure you're right.
It's awful to say...but No Man's Sky really ruined it for a lot of indie devs. That game got 2-3 E3 showcases, and more outside E3, and was just a complete disaster at launch. They've really turned things around since then and it's a much better game these days, but I get why Sony might be hesitant in putting up another big indie title on their stage again. Should that dissuade them from doing that again? Hell no. But I think putting just one title up at your conference is not the best idea. I don't think multiple titles work either, as MS showed this year. I do think there's a middle ground but my personal preference- get indies their own awesome showcase platform and show off the best big budget titles you got. I'm surprised that's even controversial, considering we consume content in so many different ways that E3 seems like a general announcement period more than the be-all end-all mega release hype-stravaganza it used to be.
...I mean, of course?
Don't see anything wrong with what he said. They established early that PS4 is a place for indies. That was important now. It's a known thing. It's assumed. Now, they can move on and highlight other aspects of the console more. It's up to indies to showcase their games as well.
Sony will continue to promote indies and smaller games, just in a different way.
This dude is actually being upfront and decently honest for a suit and you guys are ripping him apart.
Sony will continue to promote indies and smaller games, just in a different way.
This dude is actually being upfront and decently honest for a suit and you guys are ripping him apart.
Definitely
AngelOFDeath
Member
Full quote redeemed. But he is the gift that keeps on giving
It feels like they roll out Jim Ryan whenever there's statements that aren't exactly wrong to make, but that'll take criticism none the less.
Indie games are not moving hardware in the same manner as the more high budget publisher games are, but they were more important for getting games onto it in 2013 and showing them, because all the real system seller titles hadn't started to come out yet.
Indie games are not moving hardware in the same manner as the more high budget publisher games are, but they were more important for getting games onto it in 2013 and showing them, because all the real system seller titles hadn't started to come out yet.
Lys Skygge
Member
Nothing Jim said was inflammatory. I actually agree with him about showing a montage of indies; it's pretty pointless and tells us nothing about the indies they're showing.
With that said, I would like to see Sony give some stage time to indie titles. Instead of a montage of 20 games they could just feature 2-3 notable indies.
With that said, I would like to see Sony give some stage time to indie titles. Instead of a montage of 20 games they could just feature 2-3 notable indies.
funkystudent
Member
NMS and some of the crap on ps+ probably didn't a real number on indie interest
I am sure those surprise hits will still happen but interest per game just seems lower
Bits N Pieces
Member
This thread and the dozens of negative articles that quote will generate says otherwise.....
Not that I wholly disagree with the point you want to make, but "they are here, they are making tons of cash" also applies to most AAA releases, so it kind of invalidates the purpose of E3 as a whole if that's the criteria you use to stop showcasing something there.
Primethius
Banned
Negative articles that show the full quote are problematic or that he sucks at PR?
Cause a shitty headline and click bait articles don't mean much for actual content.
Aizen.S.Kennedy
Banned
I agree with him. Then I read the full quote an I agree harder.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Cuphead was first shown in the indie sizzle reel of E3 2014....
CharminUltra
Member
Jim Ryan on PSVR: "Why does this thing even exist, really?"
BouncyFrag
Member
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I'm saying that those things were such huge stories that they would have been detrimental and benficial no matter where they were shown. Those things didn't blow up because they were at E3. They blew up because after E3 ended it became a sticking point. And it would have became a sticking point if Microsoft did nothing but detail their launch plans in a regular Youtube video or blog post. It being at E3 didn't gain or hurt exposure for anyone.
My whole point is that big stories are big because they're important. And not showing indies at an hour long stage show while Sony is still actively pursuing and releasing indie titles is not a big or important story to the average consumer. And isn't going to be any bigger of a story because of what they did or didn't show at E3.
People heard about Xbone and didn't like how it was going to effect them playing video games. If Sony still puts out indie titles consistently, your average consumer is going to give a negative amount of fucks if they didn't show it on stage because the end result is an unchanged experience with their console.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Both. Why give him the rope to hang himself? He didn't have to put his point across in the way he did, that's PR101. He should know better but after the last few days, maybe he doesn't?
LordBaztion
Member
I preffer to think that a platform holder should give indies the most exposure it can.
nah the quote is still shit. you can disagree of course but that's my take.
this isn't an either/or scenario. they can show their commitment to both. especially since their conference this year was on the shorter side compared to what they've done previously.
like I said above Sony's conference was a bit shorter than it usually is so they wouldn't have had to cut anything. I don't think this was a case where they had a limited amount of time and couldn't fit in more content, it's that indie games were not a priority for them at E3 this year which is a shame.
exactly my point. a sizzle reel of indies isn't working? fine, pick a couple of key titles to show off instead. the take away shouldn't be to do away with showing off cool games period, it should be to present them in a better way.
Primethius
Banned
I mean, I didn't disagree with you that he's terrible at PR. He is.
Still doesn't make the full quote problematic. That sites will run clickbait articles and this thread is the way it is shows issues with more than just his lack of PR skills.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Read the full quote instead of the thread title. I don't think he's wrong. Just could have worded it better.
Ps <3 indies plugged a gap in their lineup in the early days of the console where there wasn't that much to play. console gamers know about them now as opposed to last-gen where you had a few notable releases and nothing else. the cream will generally float to the top. ps+ also helps despite some people hating those offerings.
Does ms really <3 indies now or were they just plugging a hole in their lineup due to nothing new to show for exclusives in their presser? You know those titles would have been dropped quick if they had a new Halo or some other larger AAA game to focus on.
Ps <3 indies plugged a gap in their lineup in the early days of the console where there wasn't that much to play. console gamers know about them now as opposed to last-gen where you had a few notable releases and nothing else. the cream will generally float to the top. ps+ also helps despite some people hating those offerings.
Does ms really <3 indies now or were they just plugging a hole in their lineup due to nothing new to show for exclusives in their presser? You know those titles would have been dropped quick if they had a new Halo or some other larger AAA game to focus on.
Primethius
Banned
That's the point of the quote though?
They established their commitment to indies. Now they need to for VR, which is an area up in the air. Yea, I don't disagree on the content of the conference but that's seperate from the meaning of his point.
To be fair he did say thats the focus for them right now.
So, no sizzle reels for indies but VR. lol
And whose to say some of the VR games wasnt indie? Hey, VR indie games.
Agree he probably didnt say it right but its not so cut and dry as some are making it.
Fredrik
Member
Exactly. Why single out indie games as something not worth showing at E3? A short sizzle real with a glimpse of gameplay for 10 indie games would be less meaningless than showing a target render for a AAA game without gameplay.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Aren't vr games indies too anyway? What's the issue again
Bits N Pieces
Member
Oh yeah I agree, its a race to the gutter when it comes to the majority of the gaming press. Don't give them the ammo and they can't fire the gun.
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree that the actual quote has problematic connotations though
again, this isn't an either/or scenario. they can show their commitment to VR and their ongoing commitment to indie games. one does not come at the expense of the other.
Primethius
Banned
He legitimately did not single out indie games.
Right. You're getting to the content of the conference and I'm getting to any issues with the quote. Even if they had indies, this quote would still be fine. I'm separating the two, not entangling them.
Indies are not in the position VR is.
NegativeCero
Banned
This guy should maybe be disappeared from doing interviews ever again. Everything he says has been garbage.