On one hand, Nintendo should allow games to be patched to improve the quality of their games. On the other hand this gen has been ridiculous with patch sizes.
People were saying other people were ridiculous for thinking devs are specifically intentionally bloating up patch sizes. I was saying that they're not specifically bloating them up, but perhaps there is room for improvement, given that file size doesn't seem to be a concern any more.
I may not personally have suggestions for solving the technical issues you brought up, but was suggesting that some sort of reasonable constraint would encourage devs to work more to optimize within the current limitations of the patching process, and could potentially lead to technical advancements in how game files are arranged/patched/loaded by engines.
Which is more likely to change - how engines and platforms handle files/patches, or the increasingly-regulated and monitized internet infrastructure?
The discussion expanded beyond NBA Playground at some point, but in this specific case the fact that they were apparently able to halve the file size of the game points to the theory that they didn't fully optimize their game even within current restraints prior to launch.
And NBA Playground being able to half their file size now means nothing. Unless you can explain to me that they had the time, resources and money needed to it prior to launch. And that their publisher and the NBA was cool with giving them all of that while delaying the game.
Edit: apparently the thread isn't about file sizes anymore. I'm out!
While I don't know how Nintendo's system works, devs don't "release insanely sized patches."
The actual size of the patch isn't under devs' direct control. Devs upload the full build to MS or Sony, and their patch system generates the patch based on what changed, etc.
So the only way to possibly get devs to limit patch sizes would be to ask devs to fix fewer bugs, make fewer improvements, and generally do less work improving the game. And that still might not actually change anything, since where all the data ends up in the package isn't predictable.
I don't give a shit.
I care about playing games that aren't broken and need a stupid patch to work.
are you an expert on game developing culture?
This is a company that just released a handheld with a 720p screen...
I can see why this is bad for some devs, but seeing how fucking ridiculously big patches tend to become these days it seems to me like even the most capable console in terms of storage will eventually clash into this issue, forcing the user to micromanage as if we were still in the 256 mega age. Shit needs to stop, because no way I'm downloading a 50 GB patch no matter how many TBS i have, it's a damn joke. I agree Nintendo may be shooting themselves in the foot here, but honestly, fuck these mammoth patches to hell and beyond
This could benefit other consoles. If Nintendo is being stricter that a game works out of the box/initial download they will either delay games to make it perfect or make sure nothing is half assed.
Sucks for people that bought the game though that want to play but can't because its broken.
I'll explain why file sizes are larger again. Sigh.
Engines like UE4 and Unity3D, and every other decent engine, packages assets in these things called bundles. Bundles are nice and compressed. This makes overall game size and therefor initial download sizes to be much smaller. This also causes the assets to take less room in memory freeing it up for other things along with speeding up loading times.
The result of assets existing in a bundle is that if you update even just 1 asset then the entire bundle needs to be downloaded again. This means some larger patch sizes. This is the way things work right now. No one is being lazy or intentionally inflating patch sizes.
Again, if you have a better way of doing things hit up Crytek, Epic, Unity etc. They'll pay you a lot of money.
Devs aren't inflating patch sizes for shits and giggles. It's not 2006 any more.
If this thread has taught me anything, it's that gamers are desperate to spin anything Nintendo does as negative. All people had to do was read the OP, but instead people are grasping on to this "LOL Nintendo gonna Nintendo" when it's actually a system limitation than some arbitrary policy.
If it only has 32GB, I see why they're being strict.
But it shouldn't have shipped with just 32GB.
I'll explain why file sizes are larger again. Sigh.
Engines like UE4 and Unity3D, and every other decent engine, packages assets in these things called bundles. Bundles are nice and compressed. This makes overall game size and therefor initial download sizes to be much smaller. This also causes the assets to take less room in memory freeing it up for other things along with speeding up loading times.
The result of assets existing in a bundle is that if you update even just 1 asset then the entire bundle needs to be downloaded again. This means some larger patch sizes. This is the way things work right now. No one is being lazy or intentionally inflating patch sizes.
Again, if you have a better way of doing things hit up Crytek, Epic, Unity etc. They'll pay you a lot of money.
So why did Nintendo release a system with limitations not even smart phones have in 2017?
i mean, he is not even talking about the patch size anymore, he is talking broadly about developers not giving a shit about the sizes of games because they dont have any restriction.
and you can clearly see this with this game, since they were able to reduce its size by half just a weeks after launching it.
So why did Nintendo release a system with limitations not even smart phones have in 2017?
Because they want to deliver better graphics with a lower price and with decent battery life.
Jesus... Game size and patch size go hand in hand. I give up. Can you guys just play games and not pretend you know what is going on with the development of them?
And then make you buy an expensive smart phone to use voice chat on them. *zing*
Oh, and expensive SD cards too.
You left that part out.
Edit: The Switches battery life also leaves a lot to be desired.
Yeah, why blame put ANY blame on Nintendo. It's not like they designed the Switch knowing this could be an issue after seeing 10 years of modern gaming unfold.If this thread has taught me anything, it's that gamers are desperate to spin anything Nintendo does as negative. All people had to do was read the OP, but instead people are grasping on to this "LOL Nintendo gonna Nintendo" when it's actually a system limitation than some arbitrary policy.
The size of the game and the patch are two different things. It was a compromise offered to Nintendo because its easy to reduce the size of assets (texture/audio quality) that may of may not have anything to do with the patch.what the actual fuck....
i mean even the developer said they reduced the size of the game by half, and still are you arguing, THINGS ARE BIG DEAL WITH IT?
holy shit
Jesus... Game size and patch size go hand in hand. I give up. Can you guys just play games and not pretend you know what is going on with the development of them?
This very developer apparently cut the download size in half and was going to reduce the size in half. How come that couldn't have been done before launch?
Again, Nintendo should allow the patch, but developers could also try and reduce the size of their games and thus patches as well.
Yeah, why blame put ANY blame on Nintendo. It's not like they designed the Switch knowing this could be an issue after seeing 10 years of modern gaming unfold.
And then make you buy an expensive smart phone to use voice chat on it. *zing*
Oh, and expensive SD cards too.
You left that part out.
Edit: The Switch's battery life also leaves a lot to be desired. I wouldn't call it decent.
For a lot of reasons. Time, resources and money. The fact that their publisher and the NBA didn't allow it to happen before launch? Probably one of those reasons. Why don't you tweet them or something and ask?
And then make you buy an expensive smart phone to use voice chat on it. *zing*
Oh, and expensive SD cards too.
You left that part out.
Edit: The Switch's battery life also leaves a lot to be desired. I wouldn't call it decent.
You aren't making sense. This developer said they reduced the file size of the game from 7GB's to around 3.5 GB's, right? Couldn't that have happened before launch?
Yeah, why blame put ANY blame on Nintendo. It's not like they designed the Switch knowing this could be an issue after seeing 10 years of modern gaming unfold.
Yeah I don't understand the voice chat thing either. You can't argue that SD cards were a bad idea though, as adding 32 gigs with an SD card is much cheaper for the consumer than the difference between including 32 and 64 gigs of flash storage with the console. SD cards also give the consumer the ability to decide how much storage they need.
If you compare it to the other consoles where they have the luxury of being able to include a 500gig+ hard drive for $30 then yeah, it's a rip off. That technology is not possible in a portable device however.
This could benefit other consoles. If Nintendo is being stricter that a game works out of the box/initial download they will either delay games to make it perfect or make sure nothing is half assed.
Sucks for people that bought the game though that want to play but can't because its broken.
To whomever reference Apple, please stop talking out of your ass. They have stringent app size limits.
STOP BEING SO SEVERE NINTENDO PLZ
I understand that, but don't say that nothing can be done to reduce file sizes when they were able to cut it in half within a month or two post launch.
You don't need to explain these things to me. Nintendo created the platform they created. Now we have to deal with these archaic limitations. It is what it is.
... who in 2017 doesn't own a smartphone and is going to have to buy one *just* because the Switch requires it for voicechat? Is it a cumbersome method, most definitely. But let's stop with the hyperbole.And then make you buy an expensive smart phone to use voice chat on it. *zing*
Oh, and expensive SD cards too.
You left that part out.
Edit: The Switch's battery life also leaves a lot to be desired. I wouldn't call it decent.
Oh it will benefit other consoles all right. It's reason 4997 why the Switch won't get third party games to begin with.
Sony and Microsoft say thanks, Nintendo!
god damn dude, your bias is showing, cover it
... who in 2017 doesn't own a smartphone and is going to have to buy one *just* because the Switch requires it for voicechat? Is it a cumbersome method, most definitely. But let's stop with the hyperbole.
Also, I really wish that Nintendo could make a 4K handheld that had like 9 terabytes of memory and costs $15 bucks and can give me a BJ every night before bed, but magic isn't real. Yall need to realize that not every electronic device can be every single thing to every single consumer. The PS4 isn't and neither is the XBox One.
What bias? Apple, Android, MS or Sony have none of these ridiculous limitations. Nintendo does. And I have experienced how hard they are to work with. Nintendo is getting singled out because they're alone on this island of stupid. And you're getting less and less quality software because of it. So enjoy or something.
Seriously though why are people talking about file sizes instead of the topic of the thread?
This shows you don't know what you're talking about. All platform holders have their own certification process, with their own rules and limitations.
You even mention Apple, but there is a 4GB file size limit on the App Store (increased a few years ago from 2GB), or a tiny 100MB limit on apps/updates if the Dev wants them to be downloadable over 3G/4G.
The obvious point is Xbox and PlayStation have large HDDs, Switch and phones don't.
And because of that, you do not learn and literally do not understand game development.
Most patches are not due to games being broken and unless you are willing to update every games QA budget to astronomical levels and you are willing to pay dramatically increased prices for a modern game, it is impossible to catch every issue prior to release. Because the playtesting field expands dramatically when a million people are suddenly playing your game in a zillion unique ways. Too many variables.
No, just an expert on not being wildly ignorant on the topics I choose to discuss.
Except I literally said, in the post you quoted, that it's super cumbersome and not at all ideal. But okay! I gotta run anyway! Gotta get down to Verizon to pick up one of those new fangled iPhones to finally use my Switch.The fact that you need to defend this is ridiculous. It's a stupid decision period. Requiring Switch owners to tether a supposedly mobile device to their phone and potentially have to use their data plan... You want to die on this sword? Yikes.
The fact that you need to defend this is ridiculous. It's a stupid decision period. Requiring Switch owners to tether a supposedly mobile device to their phone and potentially have to use their own data plan if they don't have wifi... You want to die on this sword? Yikes.
GameStop?I work in this space. I don't need a lesson on Apple or Android submission guidelines.
Because they can't read the OP.