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[Kid Ying]

I enjoyed wonder woman so much more than the two captain America movies I watched. By a huge margin.

I think it's miles better than the first, but much worse than the second one.

To me, WW is just a run to the mills movie that fells into the bell curve that contains most of the mcu.

I dont think the superhero movies hás anything to learn from it, besides that women can be protagonists of a successful movie (that goes for Marvel specifically though).

 

[Sunster]

Bathos? I learned a new word today.
But yeah, I did appreciate Wonder Woman's sincerity. That's definitely an ingredient that is very present in some of my favorite comic-book films like Superman, Spider-Man 2, the Cap trilogy, etc.
I couldn't stand Age of Ultron and Doctor Strange because of the dialogs, although I do think there's a way to do it well, like in Civil War.

Age of Ultron was the worst with this. Joking around during that world ending battle at the end...

 

[benicillin]

This is one reason I'm a little concerned about Marvel's Spider-Man movie. I'm not sure they'll give the character the sincerity he deserves.

 

[LotusHD]

ITT people defend Marvel films lack of serious storytelling by just posting lol at other posters

If you say the entire MCU has nothing heartfelt about it, or that none of them are real films because reasons, then don't be surprised when people are dismissive and don't want to bother with that mess.

 

[Shoeless]

A nicely put together video. I'm a Joss Whedon fan, and I love his turns of dialog, but yeah, I can see how trying to do "All Joss, All The Time" can definitely have the wrong effect, and even Joss knew when it was time to bring out a joke, and when it was time to put the jokes away, like some of the more traumatic episodes of Buffy The Vampire Slayer that really went for the throat and stayed there.

It'll be interesting to see if continued snark, plus a general disenchantment with dysotpic stories thanks to the times we live in bring about a change back to more heartfelt, optimistic, sincere storytelling that's not afraid of cheese.

 

[Einchy]

ITT people defend Marvel films lack of serious storytelling by just posting lol at other posters

So, none of the MCU movies are sincere and Logan is a "real" movie while the MCU are "fake" ones? Honestly, lol is all you need to say to that ridiculous comment.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Age of Ultron was the worst with this. Joking around during that world ending battle at the end...

Joking during a world-ending battle isn't a novel or bad thing. Fucking Blade did it.

 

[black070]

The narrative is already set in stone. The ''Dark Souls' second half is trash'' effect. Don't take them too seriously.

It's funny too because the first act is by far the worst thing about the movie and immensely worse than the third.

Spider-Man 1 & 2, Blade and Deadpool are easily the best Marvel movies. What a strange coincidence

Winter Solider.

 

[jmdajr]

I hear people on this website say Wonder Woman has a terrible third act, and me I'm here wondering what you guys are talking about because I loved the third act and ending.

Me2 man.

 

[Toxi]

A joke doesn't have to destroy the drama of the scene.

Just look at The Empire Strikes Back.

"I love you."

"I know."

The line works because Han is flippant to the last.

 

[thecouncil]

It's funny that the MCU will now be copying the perfection that is Wonder Woman. You can already see it in the Black Panther trailer. It's like, the DCCU is how real life works and MCU is a little kid smashing action figures together. It's a bit pathetic.

 

[Zekes!]

I feel like if there's any superhero movie writer's should look to this year, it's Logan.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Don't worry. Justice League will fix all those things about Wonder Woman.

Please no

No edgy sarcastic wonder woman oh god

 

[anaron]

I hear people on this website say Wonder Woman has a terrible third act, and me I'm here wondering what you guys are talking about because I loved the third act and ending.

Same

 

[Magwik]

If you say the entire MCU has nothing heartfelt about it, or that none of them are real films because reasons, then don't be surprised when people are dismissive and don't want to bother with that mess.

That's not what I'm saying, the Iron Man movies are all sincere. The First Avenger and Winter Soldier are too. The rest? Not really.

So, none of the MCU movies are sincere and Logan is a "real" movie while the MCU are "fake" ones? Honestly, lol is all you need to say to that ridiculous comment.

The last Marvel movie to actually explore their characters was Iron Man 3. I'm leaving Winter Soldier out because it is more defining who Steve is rather than putting him in situations to find out.


Edit: there's also no such thing as a real movie. Some have different goals and target different people.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

It's funny that the MCU will now be copying the perfection that is Wonder Woman. You can already see it in the Black Panther trailer. It's like, the DCCU is how real life works and MCU is a little kid smashing action figures together. It's a bit pathetic.

 

[black070]

It's funny that the MCU will now be copying the perfection that is Wonder Woman. You can already see it in the Black Panther trailer. It's like, the DCCU is how real life works and MCU is a little kid smashing action figures together. It's a bit pathetic.

I can't tell whether you're being serious.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Not every MCU needs to look at Wonder Woman for inspiration but you can't deny Wonder Woman did transcend the genre. You'd be lying if you think the writers for Captain Marvel aren't taking some notes. This ain't no Marvel Vs. DC thing.

 

[Einchy]

That's not what I'm saying, the Iron Man movies are all sincere. The First Avenger and Winter Soldier are too. The rest? Not really.

The last Marvel movie to actually explore their characters was Iron Man 3. I'm leaving Winter Soldier out because it is more defining who Steve is rather than putting him in situations to find out.

Literally the last MCU movie that came out, Guardians 2, was all about exploring their characters. The movie was nothing but that.

 

[VeryGooster]

"How real life works," huh

I didn't see GOTG2 but feels a bit weird to call that out for these Bathos moments when that franchise seems designed to be borderline parody.

With that said, this video gets into why I take more to films like Cap: The First Avenger, Wonder Woman, and the Raimi Spider-Man movies (the mess that is 3 aside) in that there is this unironic sincerity in them I appreciate when the movies are building up to their moments of heroism. I mean, they don't ALWAYS have to be that way either, and like the video says, you have to find your balance and stop being afraid of that sincerity.

The video pretty much sums up why I hate that second Avengers movie.

 

[Foggy]

Wonder Woman was incredibly cheesy and corny. Some of it comes from sincerity, but most of it comes from being cheesy and corny.

 

[LotusHD]

That's not what I'm saying, the Iron Man movies are all sincere. The First Avenger and Winter Soldier are too. The rest? Not really.

The last Marvel movie to actually explore their characters was Iron Man 3. I'm leaving Winter Soldier out because it is more defining who Steve is rather than putting him in situations to find out.


Edit: there's also no such thing as a real movie. Some have different goals and target different people.

But that's what the other guy said, so again, why are you giving others grief, as if we're supposed to just ignore his ignorant comment and just discuss with him like nothing's wrong?

And no, the last movie to explore its characters was Guardians 2, came out this year. Was a good movie.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Wonder Woman was incredibly cheesy and corny. Some of it comes from sincerity, but most of it comes from being cheesy and corny.

I like cheese and I like corn. If it had that butter..................I'm salivating.

 

[HStallion]

Deadpool was a more sincere comicbook movie than 95% of the stuff released in the last decade and that was making all manner of raunchy and blatant jokes left and right. It less about making jokes and not undercutting the core of a scene with said jokes.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I hear people on this website say Wonder Woman has a terrible third act, and me I'm here wondering what you guys are talking about because I loved the third act and ending.

I feel like peoples' feelings on the big cgi fight have dominated the conversation whilst ignoring what's actually happening on a personal and dramatic level for Diana. It's a shame. The Ares fight was disappointing, but there were more than solid moments in that climax.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

This is one reason I'm a little concerned about Marvel's Spider-Man movie. I'm not sure they'll give the character the sincerity he deserves.

If people fix their lips to complain when Peter fucking Parker is quipping in the middle of a battle because he's terrified out of his mind and that's how he copes, I…ugh.

This fake tone y'all have assigned to the MCU is perfect for Spider-Man.

I feel like if there's any superhero movie writer's should look to this year, it's Logan.

Make it fucking stop.

 

[Magwik]

Literally the last MCU movie that came out, Guardians 2, was all about exploring their characters. The movie was nothing but that.

GoTG2 is not a good example, because a majority of any dramatical scenes are undercut by jokes. You have a character talking about being tortured on a regular basis and recounting their dramatic past, only to have a side character make a funny and remove any serious tonal implications of their past.

 

[Zekes!]

Wonder Woman was incredibly cheesy and corny. Some of it comes from sincerity, but most of it comes from being cheesy and corny.

This is how I felt about Wonder Woman. The first 2/3rds were good but rather by the book and felt corny in more than a few places. Then the final act hits and it's straight up bad.

I came outta that movie wondering if I had finally hit that superhero movie fatigue.






But then I saw that Black Panther trailer and was like let's gooooo

 

[Shaanyboi]

Wonder Woman was incredibly cheesy and corny. Some of it comes from sincerity, but most of it comes from being cheesy and corny.

'Cheesy and corny' aren't really compelling criticisms.

 

[Not]

'Cheesy and corny' aren't really compelling criticisms.

They are if you're hungry

 

[jmdajr]

With that said, this video gets into why I take more to films like Cap: The First Avenger, Wonder Woman, and the Raimi Spider-Man movies (the mess that is 3 aside) in that there is this unironic sincerity in them I appreciate when the movies are building up to their moments of heroism. I mean, they don't ALWAYS have to be that way either, and like the video says, you have to find your balance and stop being afraid of that sincerity.

The video pretty much sums up why I hate that second Avengers movie.

Hmmm. Never really could put into words why those heroes hit me the way they do. But that's totally it. Someone in the world still has to have faith in goodness, do the right thing, and make me believe it.

 

[Shaanyboi]

They are if you're hungry

Which I am. I'm going to go hunt down some pizza.

In other words, I am going to a pizza place to buy pizza. Extra cheese...

 

[Zekes!]

If people fix their lips to complain when Peter fucking Parker is quipping in the middle of a battle because he's terrified out of his mind and that's how he copes, I…ugh.

This fake tone y'all have assigned to the MCU is perfect for Spider-Man.



Make it fucking stop.

Make what stop? Outta GotG2, Wonder Woman, and Logan, Logan is a much better movie

 

[jdstorm]

Copy paste Superman 78.

Spider-Man 1 & 2 did it.

Anyways, while Cap TFA is my favorite MCU movie, I thought Iron Man 1 was successful in creating a hero out of a dipshit Tony Stark. IM1 is more successful to me BECAUSE it doesn't adhere to Superman's formula. Unfortunately he continues being a dipshit

Yeah. Also this.

Actually its funny that in general the best superhero films are the most romantic.

Superman 1's most iconic moment is his date with lois

Spiderman 1 is mostly about Pete's unrequited love for MJ
Spiderman 2 and he stops a wedding

Cap TFA. Is about Peggy just as much as it is about Steve
CAP TWS. Is about Steve and Natasha (Seriously Marvel how did you screw that up?)

The Dark Knight features a love triangle between Bruce/Harvey/Rachael)

Even Iron Man 1 centers on Tony's relationship with Pepper.

Turns out using interpersonal relationships to ground superheroics with real emotional stakes is just good writing. Who knew?

 

[Prompto]

Make what stop? Outta GotG2, Wonder Woman, and Logan, Logan is a much better movie

Yes but I don't think making GotG 2 and Wonder Woman R-rated and serious would help at all.

 

[Foggy]

'Cheesy and corny' aren't really compelling criticisms.

They're not meant to be critcisms, just observations. The reasons why they're corny and cheesy is the foundation of it. Sincerity isn't some panacea, you still have to make a good movie.

 

[LotusHD]

GoTG2 is not a good example, because a majority of any dramatical scenes are undercut by jokes. You have a character talking about being tortured on a regular basis and recounting their dramatic past, only to have a side character make a funny and remove any serious tonal implications of their past.

That same character got their private resolution later on in the movie. Not that you can't criticize moments where the humor/jokes undercut these moments, but regardless, it was the most recent Marvel film that explored the characters. So switching it now it to "Oh, it's not a good example" doesn't really fly.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

GoTG2 is not a good example, because a majority of any dramatical scenes are undercut by jokes. You have a character talking about being tortured on a regular basis and recounting their dramatic past, only to have a side character make a funny and remove any serious tonal implications of their past.

You're cherry-picking moments from Guardians 2 to fit a narrative. It had plenty of emotional scenes that they just let be (Yondu's death, Gamora and Nebula making up, Rocket being berated by Yondu, Peter seeing all of his friends as he seemingly sacrifices himself to take out his father, that funeral scene at the end and so on).

And hell, that example didn't undercut Nebula's tale any. Sean Gunn's reaction is how most people would've reacted to hearing that random, very very dark dumping of personal baggage. It doesn't make the moment hit any less, it's just a very "…well, shit" response.

Quit making up bullshit.

 

[DonShula]

There is certainly a market for multiple types of super hero movies. Arguing one over the other seems silly to me. I enjoyed Wonder Woman for what it was, and the same goes for GOTG2, for example. Different movies completely, and different experiences. I enjoy both.

 

[yanipheonu]

GoTG2 is not a good example, because a majority of any dramatical scenes are undercut by jokes. You have a character talking about being tortured on a regular basis and recounting their dramatic past, only to have a side character make a funny and remove any serious tonal implications of their past.

I don't know if I buy the premise that comedy in the face of tragedy and trauma destroys the tone. Having comedy and tragedy together is not a zero sum scenario where one immediately destroys the other.

There are plenty of people in real life who are snarky and joke around in the face of drama and trauma.

I always figured that was the whole point. Yeah, life hands you a raw deal sometimes. Let's joke around a bit, get in our spaceship, and have another adventure.

 

[jmdajr]

There is certainly a market for multiple types of super hero movies. Arguing one over the other seems silly to me. I enjoyed Wonder Woman for what it was, and the same goes for GOTG2, for example. Different movies completely, and different experiences. I enjoy both.

Wonder Woman is the Power Metal of my hero universe!

 

[Strangelove77]

We really can't talk comic books movies, can we?

Sigh.

 

[airmangataosenai]

I dont really agree with his criticism at all. Dr. Strange was not overly comedic. It actually had one of the darker intros for tgte genre and actually challenged a lot of the cliches in other Marvel movies, in particular the third act resolution.

 

[Gleethor]

There are definitely moments in MCU films where the drama feels unnecessarily undercut by a joke, like they're afraid someone in the audience might accidentally start taking a comic book movie seriously.

Less of a problem with the Russo-directed films.

 

[theCalamity]

I hear people on this website say Wonder Woman has a terrible third act, and me I'm here wondering what you guys are talking about because I loved the third act and ending.

I think it has to do with the crappy CGI fight between her and Ares. You could probably splice in some of her fight with Doomsday in BvS and it would go unnoticed.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I dont really agree with his criticism at all. Dr. Strange was not overly comedic. It actually had one of the darker intros for tgte genre and actually challenged a lot of the cliches in other Marvel movies, in particular the third act resolution.

Why did the cape need to be comic relief?

 

[Subpar Spatula]

It's kind of the point, at least for some of the characters.

No it is not. I could understand if the jokes were a personal defence mechanism from all of them being close to others but then that's a giant coincidence. The jokes are meaningless to the themes of the movie.

 

[santi_yo]

Wonder Woman achieved to put dialogues like "I believe in LOVE" in a blockbuster film (in very dramatic scene) without sounding cheesy , getting away with it. It sounded honest.

 

[Magwik]

You're cherry-picking moments from Guardians 2 to fit a narrative. It had plenty of emotional scenes that they just let be (Yondu's death, Gamora and Nebula making up, Rocket being berated by Yondu, Peter seeing all of his friends as he seemingly sacrifices himself to take out his father, that funeral scene at the end and so on).

And hell, that example didn't undercut Nebula's tale any. Sean Gunn's reaction is how most people would've reacted to hearing that random, very very dark dumping of personal baggage. It doesn't make the moment hit any less, it's just a very "…well, shit" response.

Quit making up bullshit.

I'm not making anything up, GoTG2 exploration of it's characters is shallow at best.
From the end of the second movie compared to the first, only two maybe 3 characters have had any real progression: Nebula and Drax. Both of which were extremely shallow and one note and needed it. Otherwise Peter goes through a second movie of finding family in his friends even though thats literally the point of the first, Gamora learns to open up to Peter more but wait that's how the first movie ended, Rocket learned to stop being an incredible asshole which also happened in the first movie. Some will say that Groot being a baby messed him up, but the movie completely ignores their changed relationship. Peter and Yondu's relationship was also repeated this time, only they decided to hit you over the head with it.
There is hardly anything new here.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Wonder Woman achieved to put dialogues like "I believe in LOVE" in a blockbuster film (in very dramatic scene) without sounding cheesy , getting away with it. It sounded honest.