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[MarineMountie]

I am being to think many Nintendo fans just look act games differently. Sure some things are not as good as zelda but honestly after playing both I would say exploration and traversal are probably the only things I would say are sub par in horizon. I would say puzzles buy horizon a rely tries at that.

Story, combat, performance, graphics are far from sub par and I would go as far to say make botw feel subpar.

Agreed. Love both games, but story, graphics, combat and performance of HZD put Zelda to shame. Zelda is great at letting me climb a mountain and explore anywhere though. Neither are my GOTY, as Nier takes that crown.

As far as the bow comparison going in this thread, how much drop do some people think arrows have so quickly after being shot? Fact is, there is too much drop in Zelda for it to be realistic. Too little drop in HZD to be realistic. Both are fine because they fit the game play of both titles.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

To be fair, didn't you also say no one uses motion controls, because they're shit? I believe you did, first or second page. You also asked me to cite my claim, the one that directly contradicts your statement. Showing you that 70-80 percent of Splatoon players used motion controls, proving that what you said, is false.

You never replied upon showing you the proof.

It's not worth it. He'll just act like you want him to beg for forgiveness and if you say you aren't he will act like you can't let go off the argument. Or some other bs. Very crafty fella.

 

[Night Angel]

I turned off the gyro as soon as I noticed it (thought Link had palsy at first because I didn't even know it was on).

I don't like gyro aiming. Give me a mouse or a joystick any day.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

Yeahhhh wish the thread avoided making this a Horizon/Zelda thing, the benefits of motion-assist have been a thing for a long while. Really the better debate was about full-motion controls, motion-assist is basically just the standard dual-analog comfort boosted with the smooth accuracy that motion provides. Anyone holding themselves back from adapting to that is absolutely missing out. It's really depressing reading all the "I turned that off the instant I noticed it" posts.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

It's a bit strange because Guerilla was an early pioneer of gyro aiming, with mercenaries really mastering it.

Most games don't utilize it because the Xbox has never used a gyro :/

 

[onemanasylum]

It's not worth it. He'll just act like you want him to beg for forgiveness and if you say you aren't he will act like you can't let go off the argument. Or some other bs. Very crafty fella.

I said I was wrong a page ago lol, and yet you are still whining about it, jesus christ, and I'm the defensive one? I'm sure you guys are never wrong.....Yikes i'm out.

To be fair, didn't you also say no one uses motion controls, because they're shit? I believe you did, first or second page. You also asked me to cite my claim, the one that directly contradicts your statement. Showing you that 70-80 percent of Splatoon players used motion controls, proving that what you said, is false.

You never replied upon showing you the proof.

Sorry, in between your constant deflections and defensive attitude, I missed that part.

Reading hard.

 

[SanguineShark]

I said I was wrong a page ago lol, and yet you are still whining about it, jesus christ, and I'm the defensive one? Yikes i'm out.

Sorry, in between your constant deflections and defensive attitude, I missed that part.

 

[Kuro]

I just remembered Killzone 2 had sixaxis fine tuning when aiming with the sniper rifle. Guess GG didn't like using it after.

 

[thecrunked]

[IMHO]to be fair, i think the only reason botw bow aiming with gyro felt as good as it did is because of the extreme dead zone when using the super short analog sticks on the joycon and the general wonkyness of the controller mapping and controller layout in general. I never really played with my pro controller to confirm cause the frame rate being so low ruined the experience for me so i stuck with handheld mode 95% of my playthrough. [/IMHO]

 

[Boss Man]

Don't really care about gyro aiming but yeah Horizon is harder to enjoy (outside of the spectacular graphics) after BoTW.

 

[Kuro]

Yeahhhh wish the thread avoided making this a Horizon/Zelda thing, the benefits of motion-assist have been a thing for a long while. Really the better debate was about full-motion controls, motion-assist is basically just the standard dual-analog comfort boosted with the smooth accuracy that motion provides. Anyone holding themselves back from adapting to that is absolutely missing out. It's really depressing reading all the "I turned that off the instant I noticed it" posts.

If you're someone that changes positions a lot while gaming, motion controls combined with analogs can get really wonky and uncomfortable. I'm usually fine with it but then the experience gets worse as I shift on the couch.

 

[PetrCobra]

The crux of the argument here. New Vegas is to Zelda as is Horizon is to Zelda. Any similarities those games have is as broad and basic as it gets.

I promise I'll try to make this my last post on this topic in this thread. I just think I should explain myself a bit since I was the one who started this, and then went on to discuss it.

So the videos were about attention to detail. Things that are important for immersion, to make you feel that someone really did some incredible work to do little things you barely even notice, just to make you say "wow" or "neat" when you do notice them.

I'll admit that there are some biased points (there are indestructible boxes in BOTW too) and some points that were not about attention to detail at all (one point basically criticises inconsistent traversal system where apparently you can grab a ledge to go up where developers intended you to, but can't do it elsewhere even though it doesn't look like it should be difficult at all).

But the majority is about silly stuff like a badly animated fox running through a body of water like it's not there (likely not because of a glitch, it just doesn't see the difference) or NPCs not reacting to your weapon swings at all.

Those are things that say nothing about the quality of the game itself. They say nothing about the things you actually do in the game, like quests and combat and exploration.

But the are still important, and they tell you something about the amount of care and love (but also, well, money) that went into the creation of the game.

So there. The way I see it, the meat of any game - story, quests, game mechanics - should only really be considered within the boundaries of that game - how everything serves the purpose that the developers tried to achieve. Doesn't matter that other games did something differently, because they just were other games.

On the other hand, attention to details in the game world can - and, I would argue, should - be compared between games, because it's something that is really not dependent on the nature or the genre of a game. It's just there, or it isn't.

 

[Floody]

I played on very hard, but are you telling me the new patch that introduced ultra hard, gives it more realistic physics? If so, I'll try it again, but I'm doubtful.

I wouldn't say it gives the more realistic physics, just takes the auto-aim pretty much completely off and reduces the weak points hit boxes, so that you have to directly hit them now instead of just hitting really close and the game giving it to you.
Enemy health, resistances, vision/aggro range, how aggressive they are and the damage they do (pretty much everything can 2-3 hit kill, even with completely overpowered armour, that makes you pretty much unkillable on every other difficulty on) is greatly increased.
The low-zero auto-aim, much harder to kill/tear down and hyper aggressive machines, means you'll usually have to lead your shots more (or just the tie a enemy down) to hit them where it hurts.

 

[A.J.]

interesting, didn't encounter that so far, will look it up when firing up the game again. The only bigger objects in Zelda that break are big metal crates, but they are really rare, can't remember anything else.

I believe only the big machines can break them though. Also some small buildings are destructible.

 

[Reg]

I said I was wrong a page ago lol, and yet you are still whining about it, jesus christ, and I'm the defensive one? I'm sure you guys are never wrong.....Yikes i'm out.

I thought you were the only one making sense in this crazy thread.

 

[Equanimity]

yeah motion controls in a broad sense including all implementations is a mixed bag for sure and in general I probably don't like most of them.

I competely agree.

gyro aiming in conjunction with the right stick for camera control and weapon aiming etc. is really nice though. the "in conjunction with the right stick" is really important though because the motion and stick both have pros and cons and when grouped together they mask each others cons. stick for broad strokes, motion for fine tuning, overlapped in usage.

My motion fine tuning usually turns into camera spasm lol

Definetly a point yes, though i prefer every weapon i find being usable (and necessary) during my playthrough, and that only works with them breaking rather constantly, where upgrades won't make much sense.

Yeah I didn't really like the breaking of weapons all the much. I prefer how it's implemented in most games.

I consider that part of the whole mecha dinosaurs mechanic, which is great and the main hook of the game for me, don't get me wrong.

Good to know.

Barely used any when I played, will pick it up after Bloodborne again, maybe i can do some neat stuff with it. Thanks for the reminder!

Oh absolutely and you're welcome

Definetly, i felt after i explored most of the game and had hundreds of enemy encounters it wore a bit off. Freezing a moblin on a horse in time to steal it and he falling on his ass is only fun so often. Were some exceptional first 70 hours or so though. That being said i think there's barely any game with limitless gameplay scenarios/tools in an open world game, except minecraft maybe.

Yup, you start to see through most of the structure after a while. Lynels are one of the worst culprit of poor design in BotW.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Motion controls in BotW were decent but easy to fumble on and those mandatory motion puzzles were the worst part of the game.

I pray they dont ever include that stuff or atleast give options for those who dont want to use motion controls

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I said I was wrong a page ago lol, and yet you are still whining about it, jesus christ, and I'm the defensive one? I'm sure you guys are never wrong.....Yikes i'm out.

"Overwatch is a shallow FPS, 0 depth, no pro gamer ever plays it, it's that shit. What? Some do? Show me the receipts! Geeez okay...TO ME it's shit okay? Should i beg for forgiveness? What, I'm being defensive? No, YOU are being defensive. LOL stop being so defensive. Leave me alone already, I already said I was wrong! DEFENSIVE!"

Genius discussion style. I'm out as well.

 

[Paragon]

I really don't understand why virtually nothing on PS4 even has the option to use gyro-assisted aiming. It works very well when using a DualShock 4 on PC.
That's probably the biggest advantage the DualShock 4 has over the Xbox One controllers, yet nothing seems to use it.

Did no one else have a problem in Zelda where the gyro aiming wouldn't hold still? Mine kept drifting in random directions, not even like a standard weapon sway just completely drifting, even when I'd put it on a stable surface to test. It's super frustrating to me, and it made some of the balloon target korok challenges a huge pain. If it wasn't for that and if there was a way to adjust the sensitivity I'd have been much more inclined to enjoy it.

I had the opposite problem on the Wii U version with the gamepad, where gyro aiming was slow and seemed to have a massive deadzone. I don't have anything else on Wii U that uses it.
Compared to gyro aiming on PC with a Steam Controller or DualShock 4, Zelda's implementation was really bad. But still much better than an analog stick.

It's the one thing I hated about Splatoon. I also couldn't get into MP Trilogy despite loving the GC versions due to motion controls.
Motion controls just suck and I'm glad we're almost over it.

The game wasn't really built for it - I wouldn't call Metroid Prime an FPS.
I played through Metroid Prime 3 with the old lock-on style aiming instead of the free-aiming, because there was no benefit to it.

Gyro-assisted aiming on a controller is not the same thing as using pointer-style aiming on the Wii to play an FPS though.
Pointer-style aiming has a lot of drawbacks that do not apply to gyro-assisted aiming.

I turned off the gyro immediately. Absolutely hate it.

It takes time to develop a new skill. If you disable it immediately, you'll never learn.
Imagine if everyone had a similar reaction to the introduction of analog sticks.

 

[Core Zero]

I sent a tweet to Guerrilla a while back asking for a motion control option to be patched in. While at this point it seems unlikely for HZD, maybe they'll add it for HZD2 or whatever comes next if they hear from enough people asking about it?

While I don't think the game suffers for not having it, I definitely agree with the sentiment that more options is better. I don't believe it harms anyone's experience for motion-assisted control to be available for those, like me, who think it is more enjoyable and satisfying to use.

I hope that tweets and messages and threads like these will show developers that there is a demand for options like motion controls. With the popularity of them in games like Splatoon, I want to believe it would be appreciated enough to make it worthwhile to implement.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Yeah I didn't really like the breaking of weapons all the much. I prefer how it's implemented in most games.

Haha seems like you got some quotes mixed up. Yeah it's a mixed bag for sure. I just think finding any weapon, no matter what, and you can use it always in a game that can last for over 100 hours is only manageable like that.

In other games you sometimes stick to one weapon for 10s of hours. Can get kind of stale imo.

Yup, you start to see through most of the structure after a while. Lynels are one of the worst culprit of poor design in BotW.

I think the ones with the one handed Sword are the worst. You can just spam the backwards flip and get the slow motion every damn time. the ones with twohanded stuff are a bit harder to predict and handle. The game in general gets worse the better you get equipped health, stamina and armor wise. The first Lynel is challenging and fun, but once you figure out the moveset and get stronger it really becomes a chore.

 

[Bold One]

I really don't understand why virtually nothing on PS4 even has the option to use gyro-assisted aiming. It works very well when using a DualShock 4 on PC.
That's probably the biggest advantage the DualShock 4 has over the Xbox One controllers, yet nothing seems to use it.

The excellent Tearawy Unfolded uses it.

Whilst motion controls can have interesting applications, its a gimmick, always has been always will be. the AAA industry will never adopt it as it and I hope HZD2 never feels compelled to allocate resources to something like that.

 

[SanguineShark]

The excellent Tearawy Unfolded uses it.

Whilst motion controls can have interesting applications, its a gimmick, always has been always will be. the AAA industry will never adopt it as it and I hope HZD2 never feels compelled to allocate resources to something like that.

But how is it a gimmick if recent games have shown how much more accurate it is, when compared to analog sticks? Why is that a gimmick at all? Consoles have needed a way to catch up to PC aiming for a long time, this is it.

This *should* be it. It's not as good as a mouse but it's much more accurate than those clunky ass sticks. So...again, why is it a gimmick?

it's different, and for some it might take a little to get used to, but that goes for a lot of things. Should we stagnate progress because a few people are too old fashioned to give something a fair shot?

 

[III-V]

If you played them the other way around who knows? Would you be disappointed in image quality and frame rate? These are two excellent games OP. Enjoy as this is a true rarity.

 

[Nanashrew]

The excellent Tearawy Unfolded uses it.

Whilst motion controls can have interesting applications, its a gimmick, always has been always will be. the AAA industry will never adopt it as it and I hope HZD2 never feels compelled to allocate resources to something like that.

RIP VR I guess.

Gyro is not a mere gimmick and has proven itself to be good and versatile for those willing to learn it. And it's not like you're removing the stick entirely. In Splatoon, it's good to make huge strokes, then fine tune with gyro. They can work excellently in conjunction.

If devs want to use it as a simple pointless thing, they can. They can also utilize it great degrees that it's part of the core mechanics.

 

[TwistedFreeze]

The excellent Tearawy Unfolded uses it.

Whilst motion controls can have interesting applications, its a gimmick, always has been always will be. the AAA industry will never adopt it as it and I hope HZD2 never feels compelled to allocate resources to something like that.

Hmm? Wait, how would HZD2 having optional gyro aiming take away from the game? If anything, it'd add to the game as an additional option to more accurately aim your bow. It's not necessary or anything but I would appreciate the option, especially with how much I've enjoyed it in other games, like 3DS Zelda remakes. As for motion controls in general, well, that depends on how they're used. When they're used to add something to a game, such as more precise aiming or additional inputs, they work pretty well. When they're used as a substitute for an available button press, they tend to work rather poorly. Like any kind of control scheme or whatever, it all depends on how it's implemented

 

[nelchaar]

If you played them the other way around who knows? Would you be disappointed in image quality and frame rate? These are two excellent games OP. Enjoy as this is a true rarity.

I did this exact thing. Went from Horizon on a PS4 Pro and a 4K to BotW and found the graphics, IQ, frame rate, combat and story extremely lacking in Zelda.

 

[Regiruler]

The fact that Titanfall 2 doesn't have any sort of motion support makes me hesitant to buy it at all. If it had gyro I could live with not having kb+m for a FPS, but I don't want to twin stick an fps.

Too bad my computer is too mediocre to run it (probably).

Lol, yes that might be technically possible, but no way is that happening, and certainly not for a first person shooter like Metroid Prime, since gyro aiming generally works much better and is more intuitive

How is tilting a controller more intuitive than literally pointing and shooting?

 

[Solid SOAP]

Nintendo are nailing motion controls in just about every game these days. They compliment the current button-&-joystick setup and don't oversell themselves or become cumbersome. On the Wii you needed to be completely precise with how you pointed with the Wii remote, and many games included motion controls just for the fuck of it (e.g. shaking to attack or jump in certain games). Breath of the Wild leaves it up to you if you even want to use them at all, and truly they just make aiming more quick and seamless! Small things like lifting chests out of the ground through a quick shake are actually quite nice. Love how they've evolved this aspect of the Wii's design to actually compliment their more "hardcore" games!

 

[alt27]

Apologies, I wasn't referring to you in particular, but another poster on here. Just feels like people are piling on because I'm insulting their precious game, if I'm honest.

But regarding it being too difficult, that is how bows behave in BotW. Sure, it might be a little more difficult to hit a moving target, having to take into account gravity, but it makes landing that shot all the more satisfying.



Maybe if HZD had motion controls, it would be possible.

The 'moving targets' in BOTW are not quite like horizons. lets be fair , LOL

 

[MetalliCabombination]

turned it off first chance i got, couldnt even go through splatoons tutorial, felt mind numbingly awkward

 

[PetrCobra]

The excellent Tearawy Unfolded uses it.

Whilst motion controls can have interesting applications, its a gimmick, always has been always will be. the AAA industry will never adopt it as it and I hope HZD2 never feels compelled to allocate resources to something like that.

You can argue it's a gimmick, but in the same way, analog sticks are a gimmick as well, or at least they were when they were first introduced. Can't see them going anywhere anytime soon. They are just better than digital inputs for some things (not all). I believe it's the same with motion controls.

 

[Servbot24]

Gyro aiming really elevated the Killzone game on Vita.

Hate it in Splatoon though.

 

[Keihart]

I can aim better and faster in HZD because of the better sticks but i really apreciate gyro aiming in zelda because the sticks are not that confortable in comparision.

I would like gyro aiming as an option on every PS4 game tho, i mean, why not, every controller has them.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

I turned off the gyro immediately. Absolutely hate it.

Yeah I think I will remain in the skeptical camp on motion controls. Ill withhold judment till I play BOTW on a switch, but Ive been using analog sticks for nearly two decades and highly doubt I would be even remotely as precise and capable on motion controls. I just cant believe they are "vastly superior" to dual analog.

Some have argued that gyro aiming is closer to mouselook than dual analog. Ill believe it when I test ir myself. It certainly wasnt even remotely feasible on the Wii.

 

[Equanimity]

Haha seems like you got some quotes mixed up. Yeah it's a mixed bag for sure. I just think finding any weapon, no matter what, and you can use it always in a game that can last for over 100 hours is only manageable like that.

Yeah my bad. It's the second time I have made that mistake today, I wonder what's up lol.

Breakable items damper my fun of finding them.

In other games you sometimes stick to one weapon for 10s of hours. Can get kind of stale imo.

True, but it's ultimately my choice that matters when playing an open world game like Breath of the Wild.

I think the ones with the one handed Sword are the worst. You can just spam the backwards flip and get the slow motion every damn time. the ones with twohanded stuff are a bit harder to predict and handle. The game in general gets worse the better you get equipped health, stamina and armor wise. The first Lynel is challenging and fun, but once you figure out the moveset and get stronger it really becomes a chore.

You're spot on. Once you figure out their move set, the challenge becomes tediously simple.

 

[onemanasylum]

"Overwatch is a shallow FPS, 0 depth, no pro gamer ever plays it, it's that shit. What? Some do? Show me the receipts! Geeez okay...TO ME it's shit okay? Should i beg for forgiveness? What, I'm being defensive? No, YOU are being defensive. LOL stop being so defensive. Leave me alone already, I already said I was wrong! DEFENSIVE!"

Genius discussion style. I'm out as well.

LOL, you sound unhinged, great discussion style.

 

[Conjo]

I can aim better and faster in HZD because of the better sticks but i really apreciate gyro aiming in zelda because the sticks are not that confortable in comparision.

I would like gyro aiming as an option on every PS4 game tho, i mean, why not, every controller has them.

Yeah, I don't get why they don't add gyro aiming. I thought it was a thing already. My first Uncharted game was the one on Vita, and gyro aiming made it really great for me. I expected the Uncharted collection to have gyro aiming but no... I finished Uncharted 2 yesterday and I still see myself tilting the controller sometimes to try to aim better

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Yeah my bad. It's the second time I have made that mistake today, I wonder what's up lol.

Breakable items damper my fun of finding them.

Yeah maybe I just encountered less Lynels than you and saved up some weapons because now i have like 10 chests on the map marked with some sweet buffed stuff in there and 14 weapons with me. I admit I never use the great boomerang because it's just too cool to let it break.

True, but it's ultimately my choice that matters when playing an open world game like Breath of the Wild.

Obviously lol.

You're spot on. Once you figure out their move set, the challenge becomes tediously simple.

I think Lynels and hard tests of strenghts are the only cases where the weapons breaking as fast as they do is a 100% negative, because they have so much health and defense that if your stuff is not durability or damage buffed to the max you might as well lose half your weapons...If you're not spamming 50 arrows or 300 bombs or something, which just adds to the tedium fighting them.

Except using ancient weapons on test guardians i guess, then it goes fast and you normally get as many weapons out of them as you wasted on them, at least in my experience.

LOL, you sound unhinged, great discussion style.

That's what you sounded like the entire time man. You basically called yourself unhinged, i just copied your way of discussing things, some of it word for word, using OW instead of motion controls. You are aware of what quotation marks mean right?
I have some normal ass disucssions with people in this thread, just look one post above yours lol. All you did the whole damn time is go "NO YOU" like a 10 year old. Even with this post.

If the only way to go on in a discussion is to accuse the other of being defensive, unhinged or just repeat what the other said maybe it's time to stop. Just a hint. I thought you were out anyway.

 

[Bobo Dakes]

Yeah I think I will remain in the skeptical camp on motion controls. Ill withhold judment till I play BOTW on a switch, but Ive been using analog sticks for nearly two decades and highly doubt I would be even remotely as precise and capable on motion controls. I just cant believe they are "vastly superior" to dual analog.

Some have argued that gyro aiming is closer to mouselook than dual analog. Ill believe it when I test ir myself. It certainly wasnt even remotely feasible on the Wii.

The point with Zelda is use analog and gyro in conjunction with each other, not just one or the other.

Though I would argue with splatoon 1, gyro by itself made me a lot better at the game.

 

[ss_lemonade]

Huh, I immediately disabled gyro aiming on Zelda. The one thing I hated moving to Horizon was losing the ability to scale any wall

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

The motion controls for the aiming in BOTW are perfect. Just like they were perfect when I first experienced them in Uncharted: Golden Abyss on the Vita. It's good stuff.

If you played them the other way around who knows? Would you be disappointed in image quality and frame rate? These are two excellent games OP. Enjoy as this is a true rarity.

I played Horizon first and dropped it after about 30 hours from boredom. I then played Breath of the Wild straight after it and am currently 210 hours in.

Breath of the Wild has impressed me visually more too. YEAH I TOTALLY JUST SAID THAT!

 

[Jangowuzhere]

Aiming with the motion controls in BoTW is more accurate mainly because the analog aiming implementation is so terrible.

It's not really much of an argument when one control method is basically gutted to push you into using the gyro aiming.

 

[BRocknRolla]

How do you know this? Motion controls has even more lag, and is not accurate at all. They suck, Mouse now that's the shit. Nothing worse then floaty, shitty motion control.

Boy, you are just a nightmare person.

Edit: And good god, you kept this up for pages...

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Boy, you are just a nightmare person.

Edit: And good god, you kept this up for pages...

Forget it, all this leads to is him calling you a nightmare person. And maybe defensive.
I'll stop engaging his bs now as well.

 

[NoKisum]

Somewhat off topic, but are there any games on the PS4 that incorporate gyro aiming in the same fashion games like BOTW and Splatoon do? The Dualshock 4 has a gyroscope in it, so it's not impossible.

 

[AlexFlame116]

It's never gonna go well when you make a Horizon vs Zelda thread. Especially on GAF.

 

[TwistedFreeze]

It's never gonna go well when you make a Horizon vs Zelda thread. Especially on GAF.

Tell me about it. It always leads to a pissing match from both sides. Kind of sad because both sides make some valid points here and there

 

[Conjo]

Somewhat off topic, but are there any games on the PS4 that incorporate gyro aiming in the same fashion games like BOTW and Splatoon do? The Dualshock 4 has a gyroscope in it, so it's not impossible.

Only games with Gyro Aiming that I know of:

Gravity Rush (Remastered and 2, anytime you're in the air)
Tearaway unfolded (for throwing stuff from the controller I think it was. edit: and for illuminating with the controller)
Blue Estate (Rail Shooter)
flOw and Flower I think use it for movement.

And I guess that's the whole list, tbh

 

[tr1p1ex]

Yeah odd no game on PS4 has tried. But maybe the gyros in the DS4 aren't as accurate/reliable. Also, for Splatoon at least, a dedicated button to reset your viewpoint is use which might be a problem for games that use every button as it is.