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Destiny 2 Beta |OT| Garry's Mod

What's the best class?


Results are only viewable after voting.
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Thanks for articulating your thoughts on all of this.

I knew you would come a round a little.

I did a pivot, but I'm not 100% sold. I said a while ago that sniping feels like shit unlike every previous Bungie game. If this sniper represents the entire class, then they completely ruined them. I found myself just sitting still waiting for kills instead of using it aggressively because of how clunky it was. yawn

I think the game is "more balanced" than the first game, and maybe even more than some of their Halo games. But man, the combat itself is insanely shallow. I stand by my posts from before about the gunplay, but less so the "gunfeel" (which still isn't that great for reasons Ghaleon has said) and moreso the "interaction between weapons". The gunfeel is overall less satsifying than Destiny 1 from an aural and visual standpoint. And if the game didn't have the class abilities to shake up the combat, it'd probably have put me to sleep.
 
I think this is my main issue with the beta pvp. It feels like it's catering to a certain type of player. Which doesn't seem casual friendly. Sure I don't mine have to be methodical and playing as a team. But usually whenever I boot up D1 or CoD I like the fast pace. I love being able to go solo, and not have to have a team mate at my back so I can actually get a kill. I guess what annoys me most is that they seem to have taken the option away. In D1 if I wanted to play fast and loose I could. If I wanted to be strategic and slow there were modes for that.

I've played Control solo and to my surprise, my team knows how to play most of the time. I don't anticipate that lasting for too long, but I think the lack of OHK abilities, the team-centric scoring and the emphasis on team-oriented abilities (except on you lame Hunters) makes people more inclined to move with their team.

Of course, I played Destiny 1 because you could be a one man army. I don't anticipate myself getting anywhere near 50 kills per game in this one again.
 

Spoo

Member
Want to give a longer form of impressions for strictly the PvP side of the beta. I think PvE and PvP are truly separate modes that deserve separate critique, and as someone who derives much more fun -- in the general -- from PvP than PvE, I'm probably ill-equipped to speak to how things *should* look there. Suffice it to say, I played the strike and story mission and enjoyed both, and do feel there are some issues there, but I think other people are tackling that well enough.

PvP in Destiny 2 just seems like a *reaction* to what Destiny 1 multiplayer was and became over the years. In Destiny 1, things were, well, chaotic. Certain exotics circumvented established 'rules', like the special economy. The 6v6 modes were laggy, chaotic, and became more about combinations of abilities and gear that allowed you to reduce cooldowns to almost non-existent and spam those abilities. It wasn't just possible to be a God in Destiny, in some cases you could nearly become untouchable if you had the right set of gear, the right personal skill level, the right area to run about in. Everything was powerful, even though everything was nerfed. A well-placed headshot with a good hand cannon rolled smoothly into a single melee that would decimate any player in < .4 seconds. Whole groups of people could die so fast that they very literally would have no clue what hit them. In the 3v3 modes, things were a bit better, a bit less chaotic, but people attempted to climb to the top by being even more adherent to what would work the best: sticky grenades for an easy one-shot kill, regenerating ammo sniper rifles for long distance, and hand cannons that had a chance of being able to two-tap another player. Supers would clutch entire games, turning things into a chess match game of waiting/camping rather than anything else. Even though 3v3 was better, it wasn't much fun, not in the last moments of its life (which people are entertaining now).

So enter 4v4. It's inherently less chaotic, and I'd suppose a lot less laggy by my personal experience, but the reduction of insanity doesn't end there. Now people don't really play to ability spam, because cooldowns take a long while. Instead of going for "random" grenade kills, most people will wait and play those rarer resources when it is liable to make a difference. Everyone is stronger, while everything else is a bit weaker (it's kind of hard to parse the difference here -- are we all stronger, or are the weapons weaker, or a bit of both?). Certain problematic grenades don't one-shot anymore. A two-tap weapon doesn't seem to exist. Melees take a minimum of three hits on a full-health player to kill. Most fights, unsurprisingly, are gunfights now. Players move slower, a lot slower, with only some abilities to reduce their chance of dying -- not to increase their chance of killing. It's a much decisive, calculating affair, with maps pulled into to a reasonable size to support 4v4. The lanes are thought-out, with their own pros and cons for use. In Countdown, the objective basically forces teams to play the game, rather than camp or wait for supers that take a *long* time to come, even when you're playing at peak capability. Teamshots are more important than any super, and teams working together intelligently win games, not solo heroes of the crucible.

It's a big change. Huge, for a Destiny player familiar with what they're looking at. It's going to piss a *lot* of people off, for one. People who have grown use to the non-sense of Destiny 1 (Characters who, with the lowest possible agility stat, are faster than any class, for example). Of course, we aren't seeing the whole picture yet, and exotics / armor combinations may change up a bit of how this game plays, but assuming that there isn't a big difference between this and release, Destiny 2 is going to ask people to adapt to a new kind of PvP experience. One that is less about *you*, and more about you and your friends, together. It's a breathe of fresh air for me. The two primary system especially gives you more flexibility without making you necessarily more powerful; tackling one of the long border lanes of the Countdown map means you'll want a powerful scout or pulse rifle on you. Going straight down the middle to figure out if the opposing team is split up? You might prefer to pull out your hand-cannon for a close-range fight if things go wrong. It's an element of choice that works well for PvP, without disturbing the distribution of power for players.

If you're the kind of player who likes to clutch games, your biggest option is the power ammo pickups. In a particularly nasty game I played with my team, everyone was dead, and I scooped up the power ammo loading it into my shotgun. I carried two rounds doing this, killing the entire enemy team. It's an unlikely feat, only made possible by those other players not being too good -- but the potential to have great plays is here, it's just much harder and requires strategy.

All of this, I think, is great for Destiny PvP. I have yet to get bored of either Countdown or Control, and I think these maps are just beautifully designed for both. As far as PvE is concerned... that is a whole other thing, and as I've read the carefully described critiques here, I find myself agreeing with many of them. I sincerely hope that whatever changes are in store for PvE don't find themselves in the PvP too much, as the balance is close to perfect in my mind, but certainly some simple things like tweaks to guns, slight cooldown reductions, are reasonable.

EDIT: I want to add one other thing here. I'm decent at Destiny 1 PVP, and when I want to go flawless in trials or something I will play with two friends who are above a 1.0 kd to do so (we range from 1.3 playing level to like 1.8 kd, myself being the lowest of the three). What the new KA/D system does I think is brilliant, because a lot of the time I just want to play with friends and not care about their personal skill level -- what I'm finding is that people I play with who had trouble breaking past a .7 are loving seeing their contributions to the team noted; they don't have to stare at small numbers anymore that remind them they die more than they kill. Instead, they are seeing a more comprehensive collection of their contributions, and because of it, even when we lose, everyone is having more fun. Team shotting makes such a huge difference here that even players who on their own could do next to nothing in D1 can actually significantly contribute in D2. I'm loving that many of my friends who aren't as good as myself at these kind of games are feeling like they can contribute more. So the KA/D system gets a big thumbs up from me. I'm not good enough to carry anyone to the lighthouse in D1, but in D2, with connection-based instead of win-based matchmaking, and matchmaking with randoms, and the 4 instead of 3 person groups, I can see me and my better friends being easily able to take friends who aren't as good to whatever D2's lighthouse is -- people who never got to see it in D1. That's going to put a smile on my face, when it happens.
 
PvP: VASTLY VASTLY VASTLY improved. Oh my god I might actually play it this time around. No more ability spam. No more bullshit spawning with one hit kill weapons. The 4 v 4 helps make the fights more about teamwork and map control. I'm a former Halo player and this felt like a return to form. Control played well. I need to look at the scoring system a little more. I felt like one match we had control over 2 points more, but they were beating us. Looks like that hasn't changed since D1. Countdown was incredible. I love it but I would decrease the revive lock out time..

This. 100%. Feel the exact same way! D1 was just a mess in the Crucible. D2 looks to be going towards a proper, potentially-very-competitive shooter!
 
Can Bungie PLS get rid of the accuracy penalty when shooting in the air?

The gunplay would be so much more engaging if it was gone. So many movement abilities in this game that are used simply for running away. For a game about crazy ass space magic, the gameplay is too 'boots on the ground'
 

ocean

Banned
I'm glad random weapon rolls are gone. The last year of D1 you were fighting Luck in the Chamber and Replenish perks. Good riddance.
Yes. Yes. The truest of all truths. The only way I'd not get nausea if random rolls return is if re-rolling comes back with it. Otherwise leave that RNG garbage in the trash where it belongs.
 
I did a pivot, but I'm not 100% sold. I said a while ago that sniping feels like shit unlike every previous Bungie game. If this sniper represents the entire class, then they completely ruined them. I found myself just sitting still waiting for kills instead of using it aggressively because of how clunky it was. yawn

I think the game is "more balanced" than the first game, and maybe even more than some of their Halo games. But man, the combat itself is insanely shallow. I stand by my posts from before about the gunplay, but less so the "gunfeel" (which still isn't that great for reasons Ghaleon has said) and moreso the "interaction between weapons". The gunfeel is overall less satsifying than Destiny 1 from an aural and visual standpoint. And if the game didn't have the class abilities to shake up the combat, it'd probably have put me to sleep.

You're probably right, but I think it's a little early to say for sure as we have such a limited scope of the full game gear-wise right now.

I honestly think the gunplay feels exactly the same as Destiny 1, although it's been at least a year since I've played. And I actually think the weapon sound is better, weird to me that many here think it's a downgrade on that front.

The combat does feel really shallow to me overall, but that hasn't changed much from Destiny 1. I hate the feel of grenades, mainly because it's the dudes that made Halo which has the most fun grenades ever. I don't know what it is but grenades just feel so 1 dimensional to me in this game.
 

Lee

Member
So I had Destiny 2 preordered from BestBuy. I ended up buying it on PSN digitally and I cancelled my order yesterday. They cancelled part of my order, but are now charging me $19.99 for the BETA code. Is this normal for BestBuy? Feels shady and I'm going to try and get a refund but still, jeez.

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At least get the value right. $19.99 for 3 days of early access to one story mission, one strike, and two crucible maps?
 

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
Accurate.

Movement? Slow.

Ammo? Scarce.

Abilities? Weak.

Fun? Missing.

This is the best way to put it I've seen. Just take away All the things that separate Destiny from other shooters and make it like COD dressed up as cirque du soleil performers.
 

jviggy43

Member
Meh; random perk drops at least made getting dupes interesting or worthwhile. Knowing they don't have a solution for dupes makes me hesitant to praise that design decision.
 

phen0m24

Member
So I had Destiny 2 preordered from BestBuy. I ended up buying it on PSN digitally and I cancelled my order yesterday. They cancelled part of my order, but are now charging me $19.99 for the BETA code. Is this normal for BestBuy? Feels shady and I'm going to try and get a refund but still, jeez.

ugdx3eO.png


At least get the value right. $19.99 for 3 days of early access to one story mission, one strike, and two crucible maps?

Lee, just go into the chat and request it be cancelled. They gave me the $19.99 back immediately.
 

ocean

Banned
Meh; random perk drops at least made getting dupes interesting or worthwhile. Knowing they don't have a solution for dupes makes me hesitant to praise that design decision.

Dupes aren't interesting or worthwhile when the perk pool is full of shit and you're looking for a hyper specific combination.

I like Hand Cannons. I like them so much that Destiny, for me, is only as good as Hand Cannons feel. I believe the nerf to HC accuracy is legitimately the single worst decision Bungie has ever made and it undermines literally anything else they've done to improve the game.

Hand Cannons in D1 are divided into 3 archetypes. Right off the bat: 2 of those suck and aren't competitive. So that's 2/3 of your HC drops (assuming evenly distributed/weighed drops) being neither interesting nor worthwhile. So the mid-RoF archetype (Luna/Pali family):

If it doesn't have Rifled Barrel there's literally zero reason to keep it. And any dupes you get *with* Rifled Barrel will be a disappointment until you get one that also has Rangefinder. Every dupe you get along the way = another gun you get, inspect, and delete without a second look if the perks aren't right.

Happens with every other type, too. You want your Matador 64 to have Aggressive Ballistics+R.Barrel. You want your RL to have G&H+Tripod.

There's no "oh man which Hand Cannon do I wanna use? All these interesting dupes make it hard to chose". There's "I got lucky with the right roll" or "I'm still grinding for the right roll and making do with this inferior alternative".

here's the full Xenos Vale IV armor set for Warlocks from doing the Strike

Wait what? A resilience build for the Warlock? I haven't had any of these pieces to drop for me. Please don't tell me this is a Strike thing.

Bungie you're killing me. 4 years in and we'll *still* have to deal with being forced to PvE for gear :(
 

Lee

Member
There's no "oh man which Hand Cannon do I wanna use? All these interesting dupes make it hard to chose". There's "I got lucky with the right roll" or "I'm still grinding for the right roll and making do with this inferior alternative".

With set rolls though are we ever getting the "right roll" or are we stuck "making do with this inferior alternative" forever?

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kiaaa

Member
Meh, I wanted to like it. I wanted the game to not be the "60$ DLC" that we saw early on. I wanted to have something to really dig into with my co-workers again. The four of us are super disappointed with the game. It's sluggish, weapons are boring and weak (not just numbers-wise), and I found myself more irritating than enjoyable, which means I'd hate grinding it.

I'm not sure I can justify buying it. Money isn't the issue, but right now it feels like a waste. I might just cancel my pre-order and wait for reviews.
 

jmartoine

Member
In the final game will we all start at Level 20 again? Pretty disappointed it's back to the low max level and 'light score' grind alllllll over again.
Chances are we start at level 20 then after the first mission and losing our light we will be back down to level 1 with no abilities.
 

ocean

Banned
With set rolls though are we ever getting the "right roll" or are we stuck "making do with this inferior alternative" forever?

328573386047356929.png
The "right roll" is always gonna be the best one that's actually available in-game. Remember guns aren't good or bad in a vacuum - they can only be compared to their alternatives.

A Legendary Rocket Launcher in D1 can't roll Tracking + Proximity Detonation. Sure it'd be ideal, but it doesn't exist so it's not a "right roll" that the game refuses to drop. Likewise in D2 that gun you'll look for isn't a hypothetical combination of perks that don't roll together, but rather the best options within the pool.
 

Dalek

Member
Dupes aren't interesting or worthwhile when the perk pool is full of shit and you're looking for a hyper specific combination.

I like Hand Cannons. I like them so much that Destiny, for me, is only as good as Hand Cannons feel. I believe the nerf to HC accuracy is legitimately the single worst decision Bungie has ever made and it undermines literally anything else they've done to improve the game.

Hand Cannons in D1 are divided into 3 archetypes. Right off the bat: 2 of those suck and aren't competitive. So that's 2/3 of your HC drops (assuming evenly distributed/weighed drops) being neither interesting nor worthwhile. So the mid-RoF archetype (Luna/Pali family):

If it doesn't have Rifled Barrel there's literally zero reason to keep it. And any dupes you get *with* Rifled Barrel will be a disappointment until you get one that also has Rangefinder. Every dupe you get along the way = another gun you get, inspect, and delete without a second look if the perks aren't right.

Happens with every other type, too. You want your Matador 64 to have Aggressive Ballistics+R.Barrel. You want your RL to have G&H+Tripod.

There's no "oh man which Hand Cannon do I wanna use? All these interesting dupes make it hard to chose". There's "I got lucky with the right roll" or "I'm still grinding for the right roll and making do with this inferior alternative".



Wait what? A resilience build for the Warlock? I haven't had any of these pieces to drop for me. Please don't tell me this is a Strike thing.

Bungie you're killing me. 4 years in and we'll *still* have to deal with being forced to PvE for gear :(

It could be worse-imagine being forced to play PvP.
 

jviggy43

Member
Dupes aren't interesting or worthwhile when the perk pool is full of shit and you're looking for a hyper specific combination.

I like Hand Cannons. I like them so much that Destiny, for me, is only as good as Hand Cannons feel. I believe the nerf to HC accuracy is legitimately the single worst decision Bungie has ever made and it undermines literally anything else they've done to improve the game.

Hand Cannons in D1 are divided into 3 archetypes. Right off the bat: 2 of those suck and aren't competitive. So that's 2/3 of your HC drops (assuming evenly distributed/weighed drops) being neither interesting nor worthwhile. So the mid-RoF archetype (Luna/Pali family):

If it doesn't have Rifled Barrel there's literally zero reason to keep it. And any dupes you get *with* Rifled Barrel will be a disappointment until you get one that also has Rangefinder. Every dupe you get along the way = another gun you get, inspect, and delete without a second look if the perks aren't right.

Happens with every other type, too. You want your Matador 64 to have Aggressive Ballistics+R.Barrel. You want your RL to have G&H+Tripod.

There's no "oh man which Hand Cannon do I wanna use? All these interesting dupes make it hard to chose". There's "I got lucky with the right roll" or "I'm still grinding for the right roll and making do with this inferior alternative".

(

You could have stopped there then. I agree with you that it sucks to farm for specific perks but at the very least having a variety of perks or stats on dupes makes getting them more worthwhile than just straight up dupes that get dismantled into parts. But for me as a primarily PvE player, I never felt like I NEEDED to farm for the right perk as much as it was nice to get a dupe which had a better perk that negated the feeling of "Oh great nightfall dropped me a dupe that means nothing; guess there goes a week of getting a drop from NF".

I understand the issue for PvP players a bit more as those perks were really important to giving you a slight advantage. I just also realize this means that getting dupes is going to be even more useless than it was before and that sucks. I don't want to waste my once a week run on a raid or nightfall just to get a gun or gear I already have and have to wait a week for something else. Especially so when things such as HM come out and you need to be at an upper level to get there which means dupes lead to more time gated off from access.
 

Ivory Samoan

Gold Member
But the game is designed around PvP

I find this a positive, being a PvP orientated Guardian. This is easily the best Crucible has been for me at least.

The Strike is awesome too: I'm having a ball with D2, just need them Super timers changed drastically (like 1.75x the current rate) to allow for everyone to get at least one super in the match, and achievers to clutch at the end with two....and it'll be gravy.

Oh, and perhaps speed up movement by something like 1.2x.

Then it'll be full metal jacket.
 

Lee

Member
The "right roll" is always gonna be the best one that's actually available in-game. Remember guns aren't good or bad in a vacuum - they can only be compared to their alternatives.

A Legendary Rocket Launcher in D1 can't roll Tracking + Proximity Detonation. Sure it'd be ideal, but it doesn't exist so it's not a "right roll" that the game refuses to drop. Likewise in D2 that gun you'll look for isn't a hypothetical combination of perks that don't roll together, but rather the best options within the pool.

I'm saying with set rolls, the best D2 handcannon could be a Luna w/o rifled or something like that. Without random perks we'll never even know.
 

r8er34

Member
This is being nitpicked to shit. I know that's part of the beta process, and obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I feel many are forgetting that this is a sample and not necessarily indicative of what the final game will offer. I'm sure they will do some tweaking. Everyone needs to chill out.
 
This is being nitpicked to shit. I know that's part of the beta process, and obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I feel many are forgetting that this is a sample and not necessarily indicative of what the final game will offer. I'm sure they will do some tweaking. Everyone needs to chill out.

D1 was (and still is) torn apart on here, no different really.
 

jviggy43

Member
This is being nitpicked to shit. I know that's part of the beta process, and obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I feel many are forgetting that this is a sample and not necessarily indicative of what the final game will offer. I'm sure they will do some tweaking. Everyone needs to chill out.

This was literally the same thing being said in the D1 beta.
 

Theorry

Member
I think there is to much visual mess going on when you play PVP and have gunfights. Makes it difficult to have proper gunfights and knowing when you get hurt etc and need to back off.
 

ocean

Banned
It could be worse-imagine being forced to play PvP.
Or imagine (gasp!) not forcing people to play either, and just letting you progress how you want. It was like this during HoW. You could earn just as many marks, and just as many Etheric Lights, playing Crucible or PvE. Sure, PvP players have always gotten the short end of the stick in terms of materials and engrams and stuff. But the vast majority of Exotics and quests and stuff have always been so PvE centric that it feels like the game just refuses to accept some people don't want to strike.


I'm saying with set rolls, the best D2 handcannon could be a Luna w/o rifled or something like that. Without random perks we'll never even know.
And I'm saying that you can't get Rifled+Rangefinder+Braced Frame for hyper stable high range, because two of those are on the same column in D1. If the best D2 HC is a Rangefinder-less Luna, then that's the best HC and the one people want. Wondering "wow if only it dropped with Rangefinder in this game!" is like getting one in D1 and wondering "Wow if I could change this last column out for Braced Frame!".

Ultimately what matters is how good a gun is as compared to its alternatives, not how good it would be if an unavailable perk combination appeared. Whether a given roll isn't available because the perks are on the same column, or not available for a given weapon type, or because there's set rolls and that combination doesn't drop at all.... the gun is just better/worse than its alternatives in the game. Hypothetical rolls don't compete with actual drops.
 

JackHerer

Member
This is being nitpicked to shit. I know that's part of the beta process, and obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I feel many are forgetting that this is a sample and not necessarily indicative of what the final game will offer. I'm sure they will do some tweaking. Everyone needs to chill out.

For certain complaints like "the guns are weak" or "the armor looks like shit", yes I agree with you, but..

Stuff like the two primary system is what it is, it's not going to change with the full game and the effects of it on gameplay variety are immediately apparent. It may be mitigated somewhat if they have really interesting exotics that break the weapon slot rules, but the exotics they have chosen to show off so far look pretty dull so I'm not very optimistic.
 

jviggy43

Member
Yes, but this is more of a true beta in my opinion. That was no beta in D1.

The point being, a lot of the fundamental design decisions that people are voicing concern over are unlikely to undergo any radical change on release. Let people voice their opinion, its fine. Its very unlikely anything crazy is going to change from now till release unless they gave us an alpha of the game for the beta or something. Should the people praising what they enjoy also pump the breaks because it might end up being different as well? Evaluate based on whats there in the beta. We have no idea what the final product will be and most people are only posting their opinions based on their experience with this beta.

Or imagine (gasp!) not forcing people to play either, and just letting you progress how you want. It was like this during HoW. You could earn just as many marks, and just as many Etheric Lights, playing Crucible or PvE. Sure, PvP players have always gotten the short end of the stick in terms of materials and engrams and stuff. But the vast majority of Exotics and quests and stuff have always been so PvE centric that it feels like the game just refuses to accept some people don't want to strike.

.
I am so on board for this. You should be able to gear up based on whatever modes you like playing.
 
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