Dice already admitted the switch can run frostbite unlike WiiU.
Is this because of the power difference, or because they didn't have PowerPC support for frostbite?
Dice already admitted the switch can run frostbite unlike WiiU.
You said "no matter how powerful the system may be capable of in docked mode, won't it always be limited to what can be accomplished in undocked mode?". But even though the system doesn't run as fast in handheld mode as in docked mode, it also has to output the graphics at 720p max (because the screen is only 720p). Whereas docked, most games try to output at a higher resolution (up to 1080p). Well, because the screen is only 720p, that means the fact that the performance in handheld mode is lower, is not much of an issue since the output resolution is less taxing on the hardware to begin with. Switch can only use half of its resources in handheld mode, but it also has to do only half of the work. Ofcourse, this is only true for the graphics (GPU etc) and not for AI or game code, which doesn't change from handheld to docked.
In Zelda, you should try to run around where youand it really becomes clear. Performance in handheld mode is much better than in docked mode, because eventhough the performance in handheld mode is dialed down, the lower resolution makes up for that (and more).meet the Deku Tree and find the Master Sword
Not buying 4x when docked at all. Zelda would've been 1080p if that were true.
Shit everything would be 1080p if that were true.
Is this because of the power difference, or because they didn't have PowerPC support for frostbite?
I'm not commenting on the 4x thing, but BOTW (and alot of the first year games) were developed for Wii U and then ported across. Think it's fair to say some of these games won't be pushing the switch.Not buying 4x when docked at all. Zelda would've been 1080p if that were true.
Shit everything would be 1080p if that were true.
Is this because of the power difference, or because they didn't have PowerPC support for frostbite?
Ah makes sense.
Uh that's not what you said. You said BOTW runs fine on the WiiU. It actually runs like shit. It's playable from start to finish but runs fine is a strong strong exageration.
The Switch is a good deal stronger than the WiiU. Is it generational? Not really no. But when you're running last gen games from 720p to 1080p with improved effects it has to be a decent power increase. Check out lego city for another example
IIRC, the patches improved performance on Switch to a point where it is notable better on Wii U.What???? There's barely any difference. Both the WiiU and docked Switch version suffer the same magnitude of frame rate issues. If that's what you're referring to when you say "runs like shit" than the Switch version runs like shit as well.
Outside of resolution and a few very minute details, i'd say there's barely even a difference between Switch and WiiU BotW. The resolution bump is the most significant thing, but the most stable version of the game is undocked and thus pretty much identical to the WiiU version visually. I don't know what you're talking about here.
Anyway, as always in Nintendo threads, we're going to need to define what a "decent power increase" even is. The Switch can't even compete with the Xbox One, a console that released 4 years ago. The Switch is a decent upgrade to the WiiU, which was quite weak to begin with. But in a broader scope, no, it's not a very big increase at all.
No.BOTW runs significantly better undocked on the Switch vs the WiiU. Like the difference is massive.
What???? There's barely any difference. Both the WiiU and docked Switch version suffer the same magnitude of frame rate issues. If that's what you're referring to when you say "runs like shit" than the Switch version runs like shit as well.
Outside of resolution and a few very minute details, i'd say there's barely even a difference between Switch and WiiU BotW. The resolution bump is the most significant thing, but the most stable version of the game is undocked and thus pretty much identical to the WiiU version visually. I don't know what you're talking about here.
Anyway, as always in Nintendo threads, we're going to need to define what a "decent power increase" even is. The Switch can't even compete with the Xbox One, a console that released 4 years ago. The Switch is a decent upgrade to the WiiU, which was quite weak to begin with. But in a broader scope, no, it's not a very big increase at all.
I am in fucking awe here.
Dude. You said the difference is massive between undocked switch vs Wii u. You're exaggerating.Are yall serious? You are actually trying to say BOTW runs better on WiiU than portable mode on Switch? Have you been to Kakiriko village on both of these versions?
I am in fucking awe here.
IIRC, the patches improved performance on Switch to a point where it is notable better on Wii U.
Does anyone even know for sure whether Breath of the Wild is the best the Switch could deal with, or a by product of development starting on the Wii U?
I guess my point is that using specific games doesn't always tell the whole story. Look at NBA playgrounds on Switch compared to the PS4 version. The Switch version doesn't have the same player shadows and lighting.
Yes we know for a fact that the Switch isn't as powerful as the PS4, that's impossible though in that form factor. But surely it can handle damn shadows on 4 player models lol.
What???? There's barely any difference. Both the WiiU and docked Switch version suffer the same magnitude of frame rate issues. If that's what you're referring to when you say "runs like shit" than the Switch version runs like shit as well.
Outside of resolution and a few very minute details, i'd say there's barely even a difference between Switch and WiiU BotW. The resolution bump is the most significant thing, but the most stable version of the game is undocked and thus pretty much identical to the WiiU version visually. I don't know what you're talking about here, the only one exaggerating anything is you lol.
Anyway, as always in Nintendo threads, we're going to need to define what a "decent power increase" even is. The Switch can't even compete with the Xbox One, a console that released 4 years ago. The Switch is a decent upgrade to the WiiU, which was quite weak to begin with. But in a broader scope, no, it's not a very big increase at all.
Is this because of the power difference, or because they didn't have PowerPC support for frostbite?
Not buying 4x when docked at all. Zelda would've been 1080p if that were true.
Shit everything would be 1080p if that were true.
The Switch version does hold a more consistent framerate. That is a fact.
However the differences between the Switch and Wii U version are not massive the way some people have implied.
For me personally, comparing images of Breath of the Wild on the Wii U and Switch is like comparing a game on PS4 and Xbox One, as opposed to comparing a PS3 and PS4 game.
Dude. You said the difference is massive between undocked switch vs Wii u. You're exaggerating.
I primarily play BotW undocked, and i watched a friend play for hours on WiiU. Most of his FPS issues were with fire propagation and large VFX like shock arrows or something.
It would dip pretty low, but the way he describes it makes it sound like the game was just chugging or something. It wasn't.
What???? There's barely any difference. Both the WiiU and docked Switch version suffer the same magnitude of frame rate issues. If that's what you're referring to when you say "runs like shit" than the Switch version runs like shit as well.
Outside of resolution and a few very minute details, i'd say there's barely even a difference between Switch and WiiU BotW. The resolution bump is the most significant thing, but the most stable version of the game is undocked and thus pretty much identical to the WiiU version visually. I don't know what you're talking about here, the only one exaggerating anything is you lol.
Anyway, as always in Nintendo threads, we're going to need to define what a "decent power increase" even is. The Switch can't even compete with the Xbox One, a console that released 4 years ago. The Switch is a decent upgrade to the WiiU, which was quite weak to begin with. But in a broader scope, no, it's not a very big increase at all.
At least the Switch is at a level of horsepower where its games stop looking straight-up outdated...but it's still going to be missing any ports of console games that make even slight use of modern horsepower. We're unlikely to see many games that draw gaze without the developers resorting to tailored artstyles like Mario Odyssey or BotW.
Mario Odyssey will be a better showcase than BotW, since its likely built from the ground up for Switch.
But i am not expecting to be blown away at all, the Switch is too far behind the current gen to expect that.
True although I've not been too impressed by what I've seen from a visual perspective. Don't get me wrong I wasn't expecting anything more than what I've seen so far, and the crappy textures etc don't take anything away from my enjoyment when I'm playing Mario Kart etc but I'm kinda hoping to see something that looks good on the Switch.
I'm not either. But I think it's possible to have something that looks decent. The Switch by all accounts is as powerful as a PS3 right? I'd be damn impressed having the likes of Uncharted 2, Last of US, God of War, Motorstorm etc on a handheld.
I really wish Sony would announce a handheld that had access to the PS4 library. Maybe in a couple of years it might be possible.....
I've been dying to get a handheld with proper AAA games on the go. The vita and PSP never scratched that itch, and the Switch seems to be capable, but the sad reality is we'll probably never see it....
I'm not commenting on the 4x thing, but BOTW (and alot of the first year games) were developed for Wii U and then ported across.
What???? There's barely any difference. Both the WiiU and docked Switch version suffer the same magnitude of frame rate issues. If that's what you're referring to when you say "runs like shit" than the Switch version runs like shit as well.
I primarily play BotW undocked, and i watched a friend play for hours on WiiU. Most of his FPS issues were with fire propagation and large VFX like shock arrows or something.
IIRC Breath of the Wild's performance is nearly identical to the Wii U when undocked (portable) in terms of frame rate in specific spots, and both run at 720p.
The Switch version does hold a more consistent framerate. That is a fact.
However the differences between the Switch and Wii U version are not massive the way some people have implied.
The Wii U was already more powerful than the PS3/360, and the Switch is around 3x as capable as the Wii U, so there's no reason the Switch shouldn't be able to run just about every PS3 game at 1080p/60.
It's probably GPU features. Switch is able to render graphics in the same way a PS4 or Xbox One does. It's slower at that, but the developer can find a resolution and quality setting to offset that lack of speed.
To give a metric: WiiU GPU: 2008 level, Switch: 2014
sure.
800x540 res on sub 15fps plus all graphic quality turned low with dithering and shitty pop-in is proof that it could work on switch.
Best of all is that Geralt is just walking on the initial part of the story. It's not even while fighting or on a vast open field and the frame rate is already chugging. While fighting, it turns into 10 fps.
Switch GPU could handle it but I doubt the CPU could. Unless Switch CPU is significantly stronger than the GPD's it's just not possible.
Not buying 4x when docked at all. Zelda would've been 1080p if that were true.
Shit everything would be 1080p if that were true.
That's impressive to me for a portable machine. Still baffles me when people say the switch is underpowered. It's a glorified tablet with hdmi out. It's impossible to get PS4 power in a device that size, with suitable cooling and battery life.
I'm desperate for Third Parties to get on board properly. Hopefully the likes of Skyrim will sell well so that other developers (and more importantly Publishers) start taking notice.
No publisher is going to turn down a source of revenue. If they feel they can sell games on a platform then they'll fund and publish games.....
I'd love it if Rockstar released GTA V for example. Damn, playing that in Handheld mode, oh and Dark Souls Trilogy would be good too....
Dude. You said the difference is massive between undocked switch vs Wii u. You're exaggerating.
Mario Odyssey will be a better showcase than BotW, since its likely built from the ground up for Switch.
I'm getting the sense from some of your statements (like BotW having equal frame rate issues on switch... it's not even close, docked or not) and by your statement that the Switch "Can't even compete with x1", despite the Switch barely being larger than a smartphone and weighing less than one pound while an x1 weighs over 6 pounds, that you don't actually own a switch. But if you do have one, I'd encourage detaching the joy-cons and placing the tablet itself beside/on top of a console for a second just to appreciate the size difference. Obviously something 1/8 the size of the x1 is not going to match it in power, even if it released 3 years and a few months later. Nonetheless, the Switch has about 1/3 the capability of an x1 which is about as powerful as you could expect a device its size to be.
Breath of the Wild's performance and resolution are absolutely disappointing on Switch given it's a WiiU game but some of you flat out did not play this game on both systems. Some of what I'm reading here isn't even misunderstandings, it's flatout untrue.
I am a switch owner, I love my Switch so when I say this it's not me criticising the Switch. The Switch is a tablet like device that has phenomenal performance for what it is.
Buy y'all need to be real. The Switch is probably not going to get any triple A console ports from this gen. If we do they will be heavily gimped, barely recognisable and will be criticised for it, primarily by us.
Switch is roughly twice as powerful as a WiiU, which in practical terms will mean more games running at 1080p and 60FPS at first,and then games with slightly better graphics later on. Like the difference between dreamcast and ps2.
That means lots of indie ports, last gen ports, retro ports, and hopefully lots of games where actually Switch is the primary platform.
That's great! We don't need to pretend it's anywhere near approaching current gen performance.
And the COD ports in addition to being one of only a couple of examples that you guys cite again and again, were heavily gimped and criticised.The Wii got COD games downgraded from the 360 and PS3. The gap between those and the Wii was far, far, FAR higher than the gap between the Switch and XB1/PS4, not only in raw power but also in feature set. We will most certainly see some AAA ports on the Switch, though likely not many and obviously not all of them. I mean, this year we're getting FIFA18 and NBA2k18 seemingly day and date with the other consoles, though I guess it's debatable if those are AAA or not.
But next year at least if the Switch continues selling like it is (and all signs point to that being the case) then we will most certainly see games like COD and probably AC (if there is another next year) ported. They'll definitely be downgraded but the difference will be nowhere near the difference between Wii and 360/PS3 ports.
Switch is pretty cool for what it is....but that's only on its own merits. I'd be lying if i said i didn't pretty much only justify my Switch purchase for the 1st party Nintendo titles, feels bad to admit it, but it's true. But assuming I didn't??? The lack of horsepower relative to everything else on the market does become an issue, because where are the rest of the games going to come from???
I don't personally see the point in crunching the Switch's numbers in an environment confined only to itself. People are going to want 3rd party games, and 3rd party developers are under no obligation to develop for weak hardware. So in that sense, no, the Switch really isn't going to feel that much more powerful than the WiiU. It's going to lose ports for all of the exact same reasons. Now, I don't believe it's a bad console, which is what i assume people just kneejerk default to when I point out how weak it is. There is alot of value in its portability. But...it is a weak console. I don't know how else to put it really.
Now, as a portable, absolutely, the Switch is indeed powerful...but in reality, that's only going to be taken advantage of if developers give the console the same kind of love that the PSP/3DS received. And seeing as Nintendo is reluctant to actually call the damn thing a portable...time is just going to have to tell on that one. Everyone is talking about BotW, but Zelda isn't even a Switch exclusive.
It wasn't optimized and recently patches made fps stable.
It's being a WiiU game doesn't excuse from doing process to make performance better that most games have show help a ton when it's done right. Be it the old engine they use and the total fact they arent exploiting vulkan like id software shows me we have gains to be made as plenty of new titles are showing.
It's a port with meager optimization. Doesn't hold a stick to odyssey or arms and this is features, texturing or lighting.
And the COD ports in addition to being one of only a couple of examples that you guys cite again and again, were heavily gimped and criticised.
Also the gap is not far smaller. Don't kid yourself, maybe it's not quite as wide but the gulf between generations is still far too big to get the ports you're looking for. It's just not happening. Get real so you won't be disappointed.
Edit: and Fifa is based on the last gen version, not this gen. Sports games to be fair are games I could see coming to Switch as a current gen port.
And the COD ports in addition to being one of only a couple of examples that you guys cite again and again, were heavily gimped and criticised.
Also the gap is not far smaller. Don't kid yourself, maybe it's not quite as wide but the gulf between generations is still far too big to get the ports you're looking for. It's just not happening. Get real so you won't be disappointed.
Edit: and Fifa is based on the last gen version, not this gen. Sports games to be fair are games I could see coming to Switch as a current gen port.
As for FIFA, that is flat out incorrect. That was the rumor for a while but we've seen the actual game listing by EA and it's a 100% custom version that's more comparable to the PS4/XB1 versions than the PS3/360 versions, though lacking the Journey mode of the latter.
Sure but the game never was comparable from wiiu to undocked switch even pre patch. That never was a thing.
I think the custom talk is bullshit, or rather a technicality.
A modified ignite engine is technically "custom". There's no way I believe EA spent and time and resources designing a specific engine for the Switch.
If Fifa 18 sells well it'll get a "custom" version of Frostbite for 19 lol
There is no universal "target". Devs are free to use the extra power as they wish. A game may use the power to push more geometry or AA instead of resolution changes. It would be interesting to see what a port to SSBU will do, for example, since it was already 1080p/60fps on the Wii U.
Even more so as I mentioned nintendo basically did no optimization.
We are talking an engine they have used since N64 retrofitted for Cube/Wii/WiiU. None of these systems had a shader model nor low level api that can perform like vulkan. It's insane to suggest that the game is taking advantage of the system. It's proof it can brute moderately older titles considering WiiU is R700 based GPU vs a Nvdia Maxwell. Again peoplecan try to suggest nintendo are wizards but they have no experience in exploiting the api or architecture they moved on to. BOTW discussions should be laughed at for these factors alone. I will say this at least it's not a GTA4 and GTA5 on the same pc kind of discussion that is shitty porting scanerio to say the least.
It's a bit funny to hear people actively complain about the WiiU version of BotW when just a few months ago I was getting angry ass quotes for even bringing up its framerate issues in the first place lol
I don't see how me not owning a Switch would make any of those observations any different or less valid, the specs of the console are static either way. I just don't only own a Switch.
Switch is pretty cool for what it is....but that's only on its own merits. I'd be lying if i said i didn't pretty much only justify my Switch purchase for the 1st party Nintendo titles, feels bad to admit it, but it's true. But assuming I didn't??? The lack of horsepower relative to everything else on the market does become an issue, because where are the rest of the games going to come from???
I don't personally see the point in crunching the Switch's numbers in an environment confined only to itself. People are going to want 3rd party games, and 3rd party developers are under no obligation to develop for weak hardware. So in that sense, no, the Switch really isn't going to feel that much more powerful than the WiiU. It's going to lose ports for all of the exact same reasons. Now, I don't believe it's a bad console, which is what i assume people just kneejerk default to when I point out how weak it is. There is alot of value in its portability. But...it is a weak console. I don't know how else to put it really.
Now, as a portable, absolutely, the Switch is indeed powerful...but in reality, that's only going to be taken advantage of if developers give the console the same kind of love that the PSP/3DS received. And seeing as Nintendo is reluctant to actually call the damn thing a portable...time is just going to have to tell on that one. Everyone is talking about BotW, but Zelda isn't even a Switch exclusive.
I don't see you knocking unreal engine or how the original quake engine has it's roots in a lot of modern titles still. There's a reason we say ground up and no one has suggested or implied that.
I would rather a customized effort of something vs any of EA previous nintendo efforts sans most wanted WiiU.
Edit: and Fifa is based on the last gen version, not this gen. Sports games to be fair are games I could see coming to Switch as a current gen port.
FIFA 18 on Switch is based on the Ignite engine PS4/XBO versions, with added effects.
It's a bit funny to hear people actively complain about the WiiU version of BotW when just a few months ago I was getting angry ass quotes for even bringing up its framerate issues in the first place lol
No it's not.
It's a custom engine built specifically to take advantage of the Switch hardware.