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Love Boat 2 [Mafia] |OT| Electric Boogalove

Honestly, primarily it was random, but once I'd set out on reading fran I figured it'd be interesting to see how a player that carries themselves aggressively in every context would respond to being poked and prodded. Not well, evidently.
 

Dr. Worm

Banned
Honestly, primarily it was random, but once I'd set out on reading fran I figured it'd be interesting to see how a player that carries themselves aggressively in every context would respond to being poked and prodded. Not well, evidently.

someone who's known for consistent play makes a response that's consistent with their play, and that's not a good response to you

ok
 

Ourobolus

Banned
This exchange, while interesting, isn't really helping my reads much. I really can't believe this would be scum/scum, and since I already have Dr Fran as leaning scum, I think I'll put Fepsune as neutral/town for now.
 

franconp

Member
You assume I had an agenda other than making a read and seeing where that lead whent.

You are twisting the post as you seem fit. I'm not the only one who find this. Why would you do it if you are not following an agenda?

Also where did you expected this to go after you lied in your reads? You expected me to accept your lies?
 

Sawneeks

Banned
Conclusion: Since Tsu is a complete nonentity here it's really only on Royal. I really like Royal's early posts where he discusses Nomad with Natiko, they are logical, well thought out, and very concise. The one thing I don't like is his 'weed out the coasters' list as it's essentially a lot of nothing since he doesn't really go anywhere with it, it's just kinda there. He does throw shade at Vere and also never follows up with it until his last post where he begins a read but doesn't have time to finish for it. Also somewhat interesting is the fact that, despite voting for Kark, he never advocates for his lynch and ( what i assume ) instead takes his time beginning his Vere analysis and just lets' the vote be. Feels very much like he didn't care one way or another on how the vote went.

A Very Light Town Lean. I very much like his early posts and, despite a faltering second half to Day 1, I generally like his tone throughout the Day Phase. He has logical and well thought out posts but I would still like to see more from him given how uncaring he seemed for the Day End vote.

D1 are always pretty weak because unless there is a major fuck-up by Scum there just isn't much to go on. Based on there performance I thought there was a decent chance that Kark and Xbro were Scum. I'd say slight Scum lean. However, even if I was wrong there wouldn't have been much lost because, again, their contributions yesterday amount to approximately Null. I'd say it was at least as much a policy vote as a scumread vote.

There also haven't been any better alternatives. I had a slight town read on Orb, I liked FEP's contributions (plus I don't think I even identified that there could form a train on them in the moment) and I don't think Darryl is a good D1 lynch; he can be very useful to Town in his better moments. I don't think there were any other trains.

Today they played better to the point where I'm reading them more like Null again.

Mostly quoting this so I can get your attention more than anything else, but I was still wondering why you just sort of 'sat back' at the end of the last Day Phase and let the vote play out. Instead of arguing for your Scum Lean ( Kark ) to be lynched rather than your Town Lean ( Orb ), you instead worked on a case against Vere. Not to mention you came back in here D2 and criticized what happened.

I'm curious as to why. You just seemed very disinterested in how the vote was going 'in the moment' despite having a Scum Lean v Town Lean ( or Null if you count Kit/Darryl in this race ) for the end there.

-Read on Dr. Fran-

Everyone has already said something similar but this read doesn't even read as if it's serious, it reads more tongue-in-cheek than anything. Like, your first few points are against them voting each other and that's apparently a huge #Scumtell? You can't honestly be serious with that.

I disagree, that kind of overcompensation is exactly what I'd expect from new scum trying to contribute. It's not so much whether they're being helpful but what vector their help is directed to, whether general or focused.

Maybe it's because I just woke up but what did you mean by this in this context?

Well we are different timezones and we don't really use the chat that much, that's why I will come in say something or agree with Daryll. Nothing wrong with that in my eyes.

....why did you respond to that when it wasn't even directed towards you and Darryl?

Regardless of kitsune's read, what are people's thought on Dr. Fran?

Null to a Town Lean. I don't have much on the pair either way but Sorian likes Fran's posts and has said multiple times in our chat that he's 'playing like he usually does' so I trust him there. I'll look into them myself if I get the chance to though.
 

franconp

Member
This exchange, while interesting, isn't really helping my reads much. I really can't believe this would be scum/scum, and since I already have Dr Fran as leaning scum, I think I'll put Fepsune as neutral/town for now.

Did you even read Kitsune post? Did you follow the links? Because it's obvious that she is twisting our posts.
 
You are twisting the post as you seem fit. I'm not the only one who find this. Why would you do it if you are not following an agenda?

Also where did you expected this to go after you lied in your reads? You expected me to accept your lies?

Whoa wait, I'm lying now? That's quite a bold claim.
 

franconp

Member
You inferred it here that it's normal for townie lovers to be in contact.

And here you also basically stated that it's to be expected that everyone collaborates with their lover.

It's implied that when you think it's normal for lovers to be coordinating with one another on the same level as scum, you expect it and since you expect it it is a reasonable inference that you partake in it.

In both post I'm comparing lover chats with scum chats. How they can be in contact in both the chats or discuss strategies in both of them. The only thing I said is that isn't aligment indicative.

Never said anything about how much one should use the chats or how much cooperative a pair should be.

So yes, you are still lying.
 
In both post I'm comparing lover chats with scum chats. How they can be in contact in both the chats or discuss strategies in both of them. The only thing I said is that isn't aligment indicative.

Never said anything about how much one should use the chats or how much cooperative a pair should be.

So yes, you are still lying.

I missed the part where I accused you of directly saying something instead of just inferring it, but whatever. Seems like you're really stretching here. My entire point was that your responses convey your expectations indirectly, and Mafia is a game built upon reading inferrences.

But you do you and accuse me of lying again, I'm sure that makes total sense.
 

Sophia

Member
I missed the part where I accused you of directly saying something instead of just inferring it, but whatever. Seems like you're really stretching here. My entire point was that your responses convey your expectations indirectly, and Mafia is a game built upon reading inferrences.

But you do you and accuse me of lying again, I'm sure that makes total sense.

I mean if he thinks you're scum, then that's the logical accusation. It's kind of the Mafia's goal to twist and lie about stuff... : \
 

franconp

Member
I missed the part where I accused you of directly saying something instead of just inferring it, but whatever. Seems like you're really stretching here. My entire point was that your responses convey your expectations indirectly, and Mafia is a game built upon reading inferrences.

But you do you and accuse me of lying again, I'm sure that makes total sense.

How did you inferred that when I didn't adressed the lovers chat except to compare them to the scum chats?

And my responses were very direct. Sophia should be townreading something that can easily be done in scum chat.
 
I mean if he thinks you're scum, then that's the logical accusation. It's kind of the Mafia's goal to twist and lie about stuff... : \

Yeah but his entire rationalization behind it is "I didn't directly say what you're accusing me of inferring", which is utterly nonsensical and just makes him look worse.
 

Burbeting

Banned
darryl & nin1000 (1)
crimsonfist
sorian
ourobolus

crimsonfist & sophia (0)
natiko
nomadic sparks

trigger & ty4on (2)
nomadic sparks
natiko

xbro & karkador (2)
sawneeks
verelios
flatearthpandas

franconp & dr. worm (2)
sorian
kitsunelaine
xbro

verelios & wherearemahdragonz (1)
sophia

muffin1611 & samuraischnecke (1)
ourobolus

ourobolus & kingkitty (0)
flatearthpandas

kitsunelaine & flatearthpandas (2)
ty4on
franconp

starsketch & czartim (1)
sorian
 

Sophia

Member
Yeah but his entire rationalization behind it is "I didn't directly say what you're accusing me of inferring", which is utterly nonsensical and just makes him look worse.

I mean, I was kinda sorta directly involved with the conversation you make here...

You inferred it here that it's normal for townie lovers to be in contact.

And here you also basically stated that it's to be expected that everyone collaborates with their lover.

It's implied that when you think it's normal for lovers to be coordinating with one another on the same level as scum, you expect it and since you expect it it is a reasonable inference that you partake in it.

... and I have no idea what you're talking about with the bolded. Neither of which were implied when we had this conversation on Day 1. In the first case in particular, he's basically saying "Why is that a town tell?"
 

Verelios

Member
Maybe it's because I just woke up but what did you mean by this in this context?
I just disagreed with Sorian's point in that instance. I feel it's easier for scum to blend when they're overly helpful on general problems/widespread discussion than when they're making a specific opinion. But they're both counted as contributing so...
 

Ourobolus

Banned
Why are you reading Dr Fran as scum? To me it's exactly the opposite lmao

I think he's played both aggressively as town and scum, and at least on D1 he was casting shade on everything that moved. I obviously don't have any concrete info from flips yet. Worm played the newbie card pretty heavily (IMO) on D1 as well.

One man's scum read is another woman's town read :p
 

Dr. Worm

Banned
Your behavior really fits the pattern of someone who is trying to keep themselves shielded from scrutiny by acting in a way that's incredibly justifiable.

at the risk of being derivative, I think this is a good verbalization of how I feel about Muffin; his vote on Ouro right now just closes a loop.
 

Sophia

Member
Did you see how Sophie rekt me? Like super hard against the rocks. I'll trust her for post receipts and what not.....for now

For you, the day that I rekt'd you against the rocks was the greatest day of your life.

But for me...

tumblr_mn9sun1hep1qbtlgj10.gif
 

Dr. Worm

Banned
Ty4on, what was your reasoning for the scumread on kit/fep (I know you already mentioned this, but I'm too lazy to comb through your shitposts and find it) and where do you put that read now
 

Verelios

Member
Nah she put more thought in that one post more then I've done in the entire game, which says a lot about me -___-
I wonder if this is genuine debasement or just let lip talk.

On the topic of Fran... he's a lot less prolific than I remembered and doesn't seem to be chucking posts at scum leans as much. Weird to me, so he's pretty null.
 

franconp

Member
Okay, I'm bored so let's do this:

Okie dokie! This is my read on franconp. and their bedbuddy Dr. Worm. I said there would be a read today, and dangit, I'm going to deliver!

Dr Worm's first post is voting for their partner. Cute, but easy, and strange. Maybe they've got a hate pairing? Or maybe they planned it in advance? Side-eying here.

What did we planned in advance? A joke? And you think that a joke is scumtell? That doesn't make any sense. You are just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.


So, you know that the previous vote was Worm's joke. So why the side-eying then?

Dr. Worm gets voted against. Immediately calls person who is voting against them town, as a joke. Could be some kind of attempt at garnering adoration? Side-eye.

Adoration with a joke? What's that about? It's the first time I have seen this? Again nonsense nitpicking.

Franconp enters the stage! Classic big Francorp read, trying to get on top of the game. Love it. Joke-responds to Dr. Worm for their vote against him. Makes me wonder what the point of it was in the first place. Spectacle? Playfulness? Little side-eye. Says his partner is "tasked with shitposting while I do the scum-hunting". So one side is concerned with PR and the other is concerned with data? Hmm. Sounds coordinated. A little side-eye here. Why can't both sides(tm) scum hunt? Isn't that the overall objective? Why is Dr. Worm trying to make a nice face for the pairing? Side-eye indeed.

It seems that Kitsune can't spot an obvious joke. It's okay, I promise that the next time I make a joke will put a spoiler telling you it's a joke so you aren't left out of the fun. Nitpicking early jokes is scumhunting now.

Mentions it's rational for lovers to be super in contact. So was Dr. Worm's vote against their own partner planned, then, by that logic? If so, to what end?

I have already talked plenty about this. This is nothing but lies.

Loverboy Dr. Worm posting a gif in response to people talking about shitposting. Lots of flash, no substance. Y'all really want your dudefriend to do all the work for you so you can just coast along? Hmmm.

Actually made a contradictory post there. I see nothing wrong.

Fran makes another anti-shitposting statement while their own lover has done nothing but shitpost all D1 so far. You think by this point, if fran were in as much contact with their partner that they expect everyone else to be, that they'd have gone over how bad it is to shitpost by now?

I didn't made a post against shitposting. I made a post against coasting. A shitpost means nothing. A coasting post is when someone tries to look townie posting something game related but without content. Mafia loves them.

Fran mentions people who haven't checked in and mocks people who have posted barely nothing, while neglecting to include their partner in that assesment. So what has your partner done up til this point that voids them from not having posted anything of substance? Hrm. There's so much cognitive dissonance this early on, and Fran is triyng to control discussion. Massive side-eye.

I was calling out coasters instead of inactives as Ouro was doing. Also I already know Worm aligment. Why would I be worried about him? Trying to control discussion with that post it's kinda funny.

It was at this point where I had to just double check and confirm that yes, Fran AND Dr. Worm are partners and supposed to be collaborating with one another. And they are. Because people had begun reading Dr. Worm as suspicious, but hadn't even noticed the complete and total disparity between the way both sides of this pairing were acting.

We are partners but that doesn't mean that we think the same. We were in complete different sides of the vote yesterday (He voted for Orb when I was planning to vote for Kark in case of a tie) and several of our reads are completly different. The part of collaborating is another invention of your.

At this point I'm going to avoid beating on the same dead horse as I expect it to repeat throughout D1, and instead looking for other things of substance here. Suffice it to say at this point I'm soft-leaning scum.

Oh, good! We may finally get some analysis.


I wasn't called suspicious there. She was a little suspicious of Worm and I was suspicious of them for catching some meta references.


Weren't we over the same dead horse? Again, LOVERS. I know his aligment. Why would I need to tell him anything?

Worm FINALLY contributes something of value. Why now of all times? They seemed perfectly fine to shitpost until something about this vote and conversation grinded their gears.

So you are suspicious of Worm because shitposting and now you are suspicious of Worm because he contributes? That even make sense?


He is talking about Kingkitty. Also why it's bad if he proded Ty? Do you know his aligment already?

Franconp going to town on some unsuspecting soul. Definitely trying to be a driving force.

I'm trying to get some out of Nomadic. It's called scum hunting. Look how I did it without twisting any post or telling lies.

Dr. Worm saying "scum would want validation more than town". Is that why you were trying to lay low and cultivate an image? What I find curious here is that Dr. Worm talks about "driving that home" during my "spat" with WAMD, but Dr. Worm literally contributed nothing in that entire thing. So why does he think that he contributed? Was he coaching franconp? Were they C O L L U D I N G?

I find the We there as "all the talk so far". Maybe Worm can explain it better. Beside that: LOVERS. Of course we collude. We have a secret chat and know our aligment. Why is this even a point?

"There isn't much to analize" - Francorp 2017. Naughty. But it's funny how he's accusing others of trying too hard when he's been doing that for the entirety of what I've been reading so far.

I find read lists in the first 24 suspicious as that means that the player is nitpicking every post to look townie. I have been trying to hard where?

It's at this point where I noticed Dr. Worm hasn't been shitposting nearly as much as they were, and are actively commenting on the day's affairs. Good! Gold stars. Seems like a weird behavioural shift though.

Again: it's suspicious that Worm is contributing? That made no sense before and it doesn't make sense now.

Okay my eyes are glazing over, and this is only like halfway through D1. And it's already this long! I'm going to save you a wall of text and stop it here... for now.

And we are done. At post 571. And were both Worm and I were contributing and you didn't had any more jokes to nitpick.

So yeah. Scumread on Franconp. I don't like the way he carries himself one bit. Seems way to aggressive for town.

Vote: Franconp

That's how I play. You should know as we have just played a game together. Also FEP knows that's how I play.
 

franconp

Member
I think he's played both aggressively as town and scum, and at least on D1 he was casting shade on everything that moved. I obviously don't have any concrete info from flips yet. Worm played the newbie card pretty heavily (IMO) on D1 as well.

One man's scum read is another woman's town read :p

You are not even trying at this point. This read is bullshit and you know it. You are scumreading me for something that's my usual MO and you know it.
 

Sorian

Banned
Just because you can't fathom it doesn't make it so.

Jesus, this is more of the same non-sense that your "reads" post was. You are saying shit for the sake of talking and not actually doing anything. I read ahead obviously and while fran is getting overly upset, I can't say I blame him. From memory, your reads post, at least. seemed to feign interest in reading more into the group but now we've changed to a nonchalant "if I get around to it."

Here, have a vote, we're under 24 hours and my pressure vote got all of nothing

VOTE:kitsunelaine

Regardless of kitsune's read, what are people's thought on Dr. Fran?

As I think I said last night, fran is acting normal so on his own, a town read, Worm drags it down a lot because of the role fishing and lack of helpful play at all but I think I still put them leaning town with a gun to my head because at least Worm seemed convinced that his question was actually innocent.

Is it really important what that guy notes ? Genuine question.

How passive aggressive.

I do hope that Ouro understand I'm ready flip on him. As in you're making this situation more confusing then what's needed.

Why does Ouro need a warning before you vote for him? What purpose did this serve other than to telegraph your play?
 
Was out of the house all day today.

I find it funny that you try to say it's RNG when the first post of your partner is saying that I'm scum because of some faulty meta read, even when we only played 2 games together (Danganronpa 1 and Zelda) and in both I was NK the first night so nothing much to work there.

But it really was RNG- ugh ok whatever

What I find interesting is that she, in a 2.100 posts game, looked at the first 580 posts, decided that she found scum and said why bother with the rest.

Either she is following an agenda or extremely lazy town.

Well gee I was borderline AFK last day session and most of yesterday, what do you think I'm doing?

I RNG'd because I needed to get off my ass and actually play and picking one group to look at at a time helps me stay focused.


That seems more like scum pulling a random player(or group in this case) to give a read on then anything else.

yougotme.gif

Star get anything from your Dr. Fran read?

Franconp: radiates salt, but seems to be town? Then again I don't like super bitter mafia players so there's a light glare pointed in that direction

Dr. Worm: shitposts everywhere- Ok, joking aside, I actually don't see a lot of shitposts from him? Small question posts, but not really goofing off or anything like that. Where'd this narrative come from, anyway? Anyway, he's town.
 
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