If we go by that metric. Every Gears and Halo game is super risky right now.
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"How I'd fix Xbox's first party problem-" ign
- Thread starter sam12
- Start date
If we go by that metric. Every Gears and Halo game is super risky right now.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Anytime a company put tens of millions into a game its a risk. They don't get 75% off the production budget for making a third person shooter.
Getting Itagaki to do an NG successor is sadly something I would not want. Having played most of the stuff he did after making NGB I'm fairly convinced that NG/B being so good is pretty much just a fluke. The extent to which Ninja Gaiden 2 misses the point of what made the first game good is really quite incredible.
Nightengale
Member
You have to take personal perception and valuation out of whatever risk assessment you think you're making.
For whatever it's worth, Killzone has always been a financially stable and successful franchise for Sony. Not at the level of the big-shot FPSes, but it's clearly sold well and has a stable fanbase if it could profitably sustain a AAA sized studio over a decade.
brokenbeans
Banned
Give Forza a rest (just a year or two) and reboot PGR.
Seganomics
Member
It's not a bad list at all, but imo MS need to play to their strengths ie their owned franchises. They also need to move away from their aging IP ie Halo and Gears.
I genuinely think a reboot of Fable would be an excellent move by MS. Full AAA RPG with open world design would really leverage the hardware they are trying to show off, with Rare being an excellent choice, but honestly I'd rather they picked a more mature theme for the game this time around.
Give Forza a break and do something new and clever with racing. Banjo kart racing?
Other games I can think of would be Phantom Dust, another game that could have an excellent online competitive mode with a big campaign.
Thinking back to what made their last generation so successful, games like KOTOR, and Ninja Gaiden are what really made them stand out. They need to emulate that again.
We could discuss IP all day long, but the core of the problem looks to be lack of ownership and management on these games resulting in decent to mediocre output. I guess this also applies to the second party relations.
I genuinely think a reboot of Fable would be an excellent move by MS. Full AAA RPG with open world design would really leverage the hardware they are trying to show off, with Rare being an excellent choice, but honestly I'd rather they picked a more mature theme for the game this time around.
Give Forza a break and do something new and clever with racing. Banjo kart racing?
Other games I can think of would be Phantom Dust, another game that could have an excellent online competitive mode with a big campaign.
Thinking back to what made their last generation so successful, games like KOTOR, and Ninja Gaiden are what really made them stand out. They need to emulate that again.
We could discuss IP all day long, but the core of the problem looks to be lack of ownership and management on these games resulting in decent to mediocre output. I guess this also applies to the second party relations.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
Chaos Theory 2 makes me hard.
I probably would've thrown the bucket at Bioware back in 2012 to make Anthem a permanent or timed exclusive (minimum 2 years).
It's a massively new story driven RPG with a GAAS element.
But MS don't have that kind of budget and I don't think Bioware would be particularly interested.
It's a massively new story driven RPG with a GAAS element.
But MS don't have that kind of budget and I don't think Bioware would be particularly interested.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
In a realistic world where Xbox division no longer has carte blanche with the cheque book:
- Create 2 smaller studios from staff poached from Rare, 343, Coalition and Turn 10. These a HUGE fucking studios. Surely they can manage their resources well enough to create 2 smaller studios from those 4 which means they';re not spending any extra money but have created 2 new studios out of it that can create anything they want or at least be used to revive EXISITNG IPs.
which brings me to...
- Revive some existing old IPs. They're already there and not costing you anything. No one has to come up with a new idea because the IP already exists. If they're not going to create the new studios as I suggested above, there's PLENTY of third party developers and indie devs who need work. Killer Instinct is a great example of how well this can work out.
Banjo
Crimson Skies
Jet Force Gemini
Project Gotham
Rallisport
Blinx
Quantum Break
ReCore
Kameo
Perfect Dark
Come on, with the right 3rd party dev there are some hits in here.
- Moneyhat just 1 or 2 third party exclusives via dormant/dead IPs with third parties. Similar to the point above but using someone else's IP instead of their own. Would cost a LITTLE more than the above but with the right choices not too much more.
Capcom and Sega alone are sitting on a fucking TREASURE TROVE of dormant or dead IPs Microsoft could approach them to fund a sequel or reboot to that wouldn't cost much:
PowerStone
Streets of Rage
Shinobi
Dino Crisis (this was rumoured ot have happened and Capcom said no)
Altered Beast
Maximo
Virtua Fighter
The list could go on forever. Ahem, Splinter Cell.
I think the above 3 options are realistic and reasonable from a budget perspective. Doesn't have to be ALL 3 options, but at least 1 or a combination of 2 of the 3.
- Create 2 smaller studios from staff poached from Rare, 343, Coalition and Turn 10. These a HUGE fucking studios. Surely they can manage their resources well enough to create 2 smaller studios from those 4 which means they';re not spending any extra money but have created 2 new studios out of it that can create anything they want or at least be used to revive EXISITNG IPs.
which brings me to...
- Revive some existing old IPs. They're already there and not costing you anything. No one has to come up with a new idea because the IP already exists. If they're not going to create the new studios as I suggested above, there's PLENTY of third party developers and indie devs who need work. Killer Instinct is a great example of how well this can work out.
Banjo
Crimson Skies
Jet Force Gemini
Project Gotham
Rallisport
Blinx
Quantum Break
ReCore
Kameo
Perfect Dark
Come on, with the right 3rd party dev there are some hits in here.
- Moneyhat just 1 or 2 third party exclusives via dormant/dead IPs with third parties. Similar to the point above but using someone else's IP instead of their own. Would cost a LITTLE more than the above but with the right choices not too much more.
Capcom and Sega alone are sitting on a fucking TREASURE TROVE of dormant or dead IPs Microsoft could approach them to fund a sequel or reboot to that wouldn't cost much:
PowerStone
Streets of Rage
Shinobi
Dino Crisis (this was rumoured ot have happened and Capcom said no)
Altered Beast
Maximo
Virtua Fighter
The list could go on forever. Ahem, Splinter Cell.
I think the above 3 options are realistic and reasonable from a budget perspective. Doesn't have to be ALL 3 options, but at least 1 or a combination of 2 of the 3.
Seganomics
Member
Ok, that did exclude the fact that Killzone never was going become an important franchise to Sony in the way Gears and Halo have to MS.
Cyborg
Member
Fans wont admit it but this generation is lost for Xbox. Lick the wounds and start all over.
Rebooting games would cost years. Set a goal for over 3 years and consider X1 as dead.
The main problem of Xbox is lack of first party exclusieves (and good games) all the cancelled/delayed games and lack of marketing deals for the games that count.
There is absolutly no need for me as a gamer to buy an Xbox
Rebooting games would cost years. Set a goal for over 3 years and consider X1 as dead.
The main problem of Xbox is lack of first party exclusieves (and good games) all the cancelled/delayed games and lack of marketing deals for the games that count.
There is absolutly no need for me as a gamer to buy an Xbox
I honestly don't know why they haven't done anything with Shadowrun. Fantasy/Cyberpunk. That covers a lot of ground and can be applied to games in a number of ways. You're basically ignoring popular media. It should be an RPG or a FPS MMO/Destiny hybrid and competitive online game. That IP is a creative treasure and I bet artists and devs would love to get in on it.
shaowebb
Member
- get a decent UI before anything. There shit is whack
- Alan Wake 2
- buy out a major studio for IP. If you haven't got enough exclusives buy them. I hate to say it but do whatever it takes to buy out Capcom since they dont have controlling stock. Its the largest library that'd sell and they'd fight it, but be aggressive and make it happen. They'd be better off with more finacial freedom and a publisher that demands more polish anyhow. The rereleases and special editions possible alone would flood you with some good steady content.
- If you can't wait 3+ years of a title you aint gonna have an exclusive in the AAA realm these days. Creating new exclusives gets tricky due to this. You need sequels but locking those down is hard. Hate to say it, but its gonna be costly or you're gonna have to pump hard for indy publisher partnering and lots of exclusive content from them.
- Shell out the cash to create rereleases exclusively for your console. Be it rereleases of arcade exclusive that Konami buried, or rereleases of old console exclusives because Nintendo and Sony aint exactly flooding virtual console titles go for it. Be the change folks need.
- Probably need to just go ahead and do a proper Banjo Kazooie sequel or Conquer sequel already.
Sad Affleck
Member
PC is a completely different ball game, it's dominated by platform exclusive multi-player titles.
This comparison is hilariously bad.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
I would love a new splinter cell.
Execution was bad in that case. Scalebound was a good idea but the game just didn't look good to play.
aygomyownroad
Member
Buy Sega.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Expand 343i, Rare and The Coalition (eventually) into two team studios.
343i should look at Disney and Star Wars and have a mainline game with an off shoot game within the universe every 3 or so years. Just imagine that Third Person Action Adventure game set in the Halo universe!
Rare should have one team on SoT and the other focussed on new IP, be it small, medium or large scale.
The Coalition should focus solely on getting Gears 5 done but once it is have another team wotking on games within that universe or if they want their own unique things.
What they should then do is get smaller studios akin to Press Play, Twisted Pixel etc but built from the ground up on the premise of delivering AA games every 2 years or so.
Continue to surprise us with your external partnerships. SWERY, Insomniac, Crytek, Creative Assembly, Playground, Comcept, Platinum etc. Go back and work with some of these devs and and create new partnerhsips as well.
And finally, get Remedy to Make Alan fucking Wake 2, please!
Im not a businessman or a developer but I think following the above would stand them in good stead.
343i should look at Disney and Star Wars and have a mainline game with an off shoot game within the universe every 3 or so years. Just imagine that Third Person Action Adventure game set in the Halo universe!
Rare should have one team on SoT and the other focussed on new IP, be it small, medium or large scale.
The Coalition should focus solely on getting Gears 5 done but once it is have another team wotking on games within that universe or if they want their own unique things.
What they should then do is get smaller studios akin to Press Play, Twisted Pixel etc but built from the ground up on the premise of delivering AA games every 2 years or so.
Continue to surprise us with your external partnerships. SWERY, Insomniac, Crytek, Creative Assembly, Playground, Comcept, Platinum etc. Go back and work with some of these devs and and create new partnerhsips as well.
And finally, get Remedy to Make Alan fucking Wake 2, please!
Im not a businessman or a developer but I think following the above would stand them in good stead.
OléGunner;246401222 said:
Its not Biowarebyou would be talking to, its EA.
Youd be saying to one of th biggest multiplatform games devs, hey guys can you not make a game that could potentially sell 15million copies and instead make a game that sells 8?
How much is that going to cost Microsoft?
20-30million?
They could just make an actual exclusive game themselves which they then own the rights for AND have that game on their platform anyway.
and that they will get the same Gaas digital revenue from.
Thats why you wont see any permanent exclusives from any of the big publishers.
Exactly! Great post and agree.
Seganomics
Member
Final Verdict
Member
Not what I would do.
I would find some of the more innovative minds of the industry and hire them to run several new small studios and give them complete creative control to make cool games.
These games would have an Indy sort of feel to them as they would be much smaller budget but as such they could also take some more risk unlike their bigger studios that are managing million dollar franchises.
This would be an effective strategy in my mind because it would diversify their lineup a lot and for low cost - you could probably create 10 of these smaller studios for the same amount of money/resources that they spend on one of their bigger studios like 343 or turn 10.
Also I would try to acquire playground games and give them freedom to make what they want as I think they have earned that trust (of coarse in reality If MS bought them it would probably be handled bad and wind up a disaster just like Rare with them being forced to just do Forza and people leaving...)
I would find some of the more innovative minds of the industry and hire them to run several new small studios and give them complete creative control to make cool games.
These games would have an Indy sort of feel to them as they would be much smaller budget but as such they could also take some more risk unlike their bigger studios that are managing million dollar franchises.
This would be an effective strategy in my mind because it would diversify their lineup a lot and for low cost - you could probably create 10 of these smaller studios for the same amount of money/resources that they spend on one of their bigger studios like 343 or turn 10.
Also I would try to acquire playground games and give them freedom to make what they want as I think they have earned that trust (of coarse in reality If MS bought them it would probably be handled bad and wind up a disaster just like Rare with them being forced to just do Forza and people leaving...)
hydrophilic attack
Member
make a knack clone
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
Nah man, the situation is not so dire. There's an air of negativity around Xbox among forum-goers like us, who pay closer attention to these things. Closed studios, cancelled/delayed titles and a quiet year for first-party will do that, but positivity can spread quickly as well. I'm pretty sure that all it would take to turn things around would be one or two popular game releases, and hopefully a new announcement or two, next year.
AuthenticM
Member
They will after having played Cyberpunk 2077.
CalamityPixel
Member
Just have 343i and the coalition work on new IP in between every Halo and Gears installment. You get new franchises and give time for Halo and Gears to breathe.
My thoughts, I'm not happy with the current ruler too...
First party solution:
Stop marginalizing the single player and local multiplayer experience. Invest in story telling.
Also need to allow studios to operate like small businesses. All the corporate oversight and focused design is sterilizing your franchises, ensuring that they aren't responsive to the needs of the community.
Take halo 5 for example, the community had been clamoring for a seasons balancing update for almost two years. Aa other mp devs will retune things quickly (days or weeks) when necessary. Here's what 343 has mustered up after 2 years:
Holy crap just fix the game already!
LordRaptor
Member
Reboots and Iterations of old franchises doesn't excite anyone except existing fans of those franchises, and it doesn't attract new customers.
Making videogames isn't like making productivity software - you can't just create "The Halo Studio" to keep making Halo forever and expect steady sales or even growth because people always buy Halo, because they wont. You eventually just have a dwindling userbase of "superfans".
The money they spent chasing old glories should have been spent on creating new titles; Quantum Break / Sunset Overdrive might have been less successful than was desired - because launching new IPs is hard - but they should have stuck with that approach.
I'd also stop being so fucking precious about "The Xbox Brand"; if I'm Microsoft and investing in first party titles, I would make sure every single goddamn one of those titles can run acceptably on my flagship Windows 10 device the Surface and be sold at all PC gaming retailers to maximise the chance of successfully launching a new franchise.
Making videogames isn't like making productivity software - you can't just create "The Halo Studio" to keep making Halo forever and expect steady sales or even growth because people always buy Halo, because they wont. You eventually just have a dwindling userbase of "superfans".
The money they spent chasing old glories should have been spent on creating new titles; Quantum Break / Sunset Overdrive might have been less successful than was desired - because launching new IPs is hard - but they should have stuck with that approach.
I'd also stop being so fucking precious about "The Xbox Brand"; if I'm Microsoft and investing in first party titles, I would make sure every single goddamn one of those titles can run acceptably on my flagship Windows 10 device the Surface and be sold at all PC gaming retailers to maximise the chance of successfully launching a new franchise.
I'd rather see them expand both universes. Just give us an out of the box new Halo and Gears. As other posters have said what Disney does with Star Wars.
Katana_Strikes
Member
To have a lineup that's equal to the competition at this point, I think it's nigh on impossible. It would take a huge amount of effort and money and there's no guaranteed results, of which wouldn't start coming to fruition now until next gen (which isn't a bad start). There's no quick fix and in truth none of IGNs fix would make much difference to the situation. It would help. At this point in time, anything would (just shows how dire their 1st party is) but it's not going to change much.
I wouldn't say that, you're just looking at it from a different angle. The risk was that they had zero experience making a game like Horizon, while they are veterans of the FPS genre. Killzone is an established IP which would have guaranteed sales, not ridiculous amounts, but decent. They could have made a Killzone game in half the time it took to make Horizon and guarantee a profit.
With Horizon it was always an unknown, no matter how you look at it. It could have very easily been garbage. There's a possibility that it could have flew under the radar and escape the customer interest. New IP's are ALWAYS a risk, which is why we rarely see them in the AAA space.
sixteen-bit
Member
I want this so bad
The problem is 'games as a service' as the way Microsoft is starting to look at things. There's a noticable difference between Sony's big exclusives which are almost all singleplayer only games, and Microsoft's which are usually okay singleplayers with more fleshed out multiplayers. A trend I've noticed become more distinct over the past few years.
A lot of what's listed here are heavily singleplayer focused experiences which don't match up to the games as a service mantra. Granted some could have mp elements. It's a massive shame, one which I hope will start to change, but it does make having both platforms pretty great.
A lot of what's listed here are heavily singleplayer focused experiences which don't match up to the games as a service mantra. Granted some could have mp elements. It's a massive shame, one which I hope will start to change, but it does make having both platforms pretty great.
Chaos Theory 2 sequel would be awesome. I didn't read the article but given how hard he gets for the game, I would wager Ryan wrote the IGN article.
I'd like to see Scalebound in some shape or form and a new wasteland/sci-fi RPG.
A new FPS ip would be good too, one that's single player only. A good Banjo game wouldn't go amiss either.
I'd like to see Scalebound in some shape or form and a new wasteland/sci-fi RPG.
A new FPS ip would be good too, one that's single player only. A good Banjo game wouldn't go amiss either.
Look, I love Horizon a lot (it's probably my GOTY) but you are approaching this situation with the benefit of hindsight. Horizon turned out incredible, so it looks like an incredibly smart move by Sony and Guerilla to decide to make it instead of another Killzone.
But back when Horizon was just a pitch on a sheet of paper, it was definitely the riskier option. Guerilla Games had really only ever done Killzone at that point (and Shellshock, but that was a different era) - nobody knew if they had the talent, the vision, and the execution to pull off a big budget, open world action RPG with an ambitious storyline. Even if they managed to get a beautiful game world up and running, who knew if it would actually be fun or engaging to play? Who knew how well it would review, especially after some other exclusive titles have tanked this generation? If the game sucked, it would be hundreds of millions of dollars down the drain and Sony would be without another safe Killzone exclusive for another few years as Guerilla regrouped.
It was a big risk, and I'm thankful Sony took it because it provided me with probably my favorite game in a long time. But there's a reason why big publishers just iterate on existing franchises a majority of the time.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
To be fair, they are trying to make Halo Wars a successful expansion of the franchise. Real-time strategy in the Halo universe is something a bit different (and it works).
It's a good idea. Gears could maybe work as a twin-stick shooter of some kind.