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[JordanDeGroot]

I imagine a lot of ladies prefer Harley and Ivy over the likes of Wonder Woman/Supergirl because the actually are anti heroes. Because lets face it anti heroes are usually cooler as there not clean cut, they've got more sides to them, have got the more anti establishment attitude and are often flawed characters which people can relate too. Same reason you see more people relate to Deadpool than say Cyclops.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

I imagine a lot of ladies prefer Harley and Ivy over the likes of Wonder Woman/Supergirl because the actually are anti heroes. Because lets face it anti heroes are usually cooler as there not clean cut, they've got more sides to them, have got the more anti establishment attitude and are often flawed characters which people can relate too. Same reason you see more people relate to Deadpool than say Cyclops.

How is Ivy an anti hero? She is a straight up a villain.

 

[JordanDeGroot]

I got around to read Doom Patrol vol 1. by Gerard Way & Derington this evening. Would have been last night but I watched Kong instead (which was really awesome!). Yea, I really liked that. Totally new to Doom Patrol so not only was I navigating the kooky plot and delivery, the characters in general were all new to me, so it was an interesting experience. What I loved is that on one level, it's this twisty dense heady at times kinda meta story-within-a-story that you can really take in page to page and unpack, and pick apart. And then at the same time it's just delightfully wacky, very heartfelt and colourful and it's saying to you - hey, this is pretty confusing right now but just roll with the broad strokes, don't worry about it too much. It walks a tight rope between the two, and it goes a long way imo to placing your trust in the team that they will pay everything off if you are feeling confused. The whole team work brilliantly in tandem, and the art just brings the whole thing to life, I don't think I could garner the same enthusiasm for this book without the right art to drive and deliver such a energetic world, but Derington & Bonvillain kill it.

2 for 2 with YA then, really great stuff. I would probably pick Shade (or Megan) in a knife fight, but honestly why pick when you could just have both these books.

Glad you liked it Donny, yeah like you say I think the art plays a big part, especially as in the trade the paper quality and way its printed make the colour really pop off the page. I'm new to Doom Patrol myself (apart from a few old DC cartoon eps) so like I said I started pretty lost myself but I think even as a new reader I got enough from the story to get what was going on and some stuff like Casey is new anyway. I'm looking forward to Niles Caulder being back after all the teaser pages in the first arc.

Read the first arc of Shade and for some reason it didn't really click with me but everyone else here seems to love it so, so horses for courses and all that.

 

[JordanDeGroot]

How is Ivy an anti hero? She is a straight up a villain.

She is a villain but I wouldn't exactly put here in the league of true evil characters like say Darkseid. On multiple occasions she has helped heroes when there is a greater threat to the city/world in play. Plus a lot of the time she does the things she does to save the environment, she just rates plants and the natural world over people. She seems more like an extreme green peace leader than a true evil psycho ha

 

[LordOfLore]

By Eric Canete:

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

She is a villain but I wouldn't exactly put here in the league of true evil characters like say Darkseid. On multiple occasions she has helped heroes when there is a greater threat to the city/world in play. Plus a lot of the time she does the things she does to save the environment, she just rates plants and the natural world over people. She seems more like an extreme green peace leader than a true evil psycho ha

That sounds like a evil psycho to me.

 

[Donniewahlberg]

Glad you liked it Donny, yeah like you say I think the art plays a big part, especially as in the trade the paper quality and way its printed make the colour really pop off the page. I'm new to Doom Patrol myself (apart from a few old DC cartoon eps) so like I said I started pretty lost myself but I think even as a new reader I got enough from the story to get what was going on and some stuff like Casey is new anyway. I'm looking forward to Niles Caulder being back after all the teaser pages in the first arc.

Haha right,its going to be interesting to see Calder make his way into the book. Everyone seems pretty disdainful towards him, so my assumption is he's not a very nice guy haha.

On the getting lost/confusing aspect, since I saw a lot of talk about that as the book came out. I don't actually think the book is that bad. Any time something seems out of place, out of context, confusing as such, I do feel it's deliberately being delivered in such a way, there's a very measured way in which the plot and different story aspects are passed to the reader. I did wonder a few times oh I wonder if this is an old thing but it turns out none of the things I considered that with were haha. I really like that Way doesn't hold your hand and the disorientating moments compliment the story style and attitude the book has and in the end any scenes that lack context are made good on.

And how can you not like Shade haha

 

[JordanDeGroot]

That sounds like a evil psycho to me.

Really? At least you can see Ivy's side of the argument if shes written well, she values natural life and nature over human life and if someone is destroying plants/nature she see's that as mass murder and will punish that in kind with violence back. I'm not saying its right but you can see her argument.

Can you really say that with say the Joker or Darkseid, there characters that just want to watch the world burn.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Double post.

 

[BKatastrophe]

So is Nightwing Rebirth pretty street level? Like, mostly dealing with street criminals, delving into his personal life, etc?

Yeah

Imagine Dixon's Nightwing fused with Grayson and that's the book you have.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Really? At least you can see Ivy's side of the argument if shes written well, she values natural life and nature over human life and if someone is destroying plants/nature she see's that as mass murder and will punish that in kind with violence back. I'm not saying its right but you can see her argument.

Can you really say that with say the Joker or Darkseid, there characters that just want to watch the world burn.

It is always depends how they are written.That what makes or breaks a character. Darkseid is the god of evil that sees everyone beneath him and Joker is just crazy.

 

[Lashley]

So is Nightwing Rebirth pretty street level? Like, mostly dealing with street criminals, delving into his personal life, etc?

Yeah

 

[JordanDeGroot]

Haha right,its going to be interesting to see Calder make his way into the book. Everyone seems pretty disdainful towards him, so my assumption is he's not a very nice guy haha.

On the getting lost/confusing aspect, since I saw a lot of talk about that as the book came out. I don't actually think the book is that bad. Any time something seems out of place, out of context, confusing as such, I do feel it's deliberately being delivered in such a way, there's a very measured way in which the plot and different story aspects are passed to the reader. I did wonder a few times oh I wonder if this is an old thing but it turns out none of the things I considered that with were haha. I really like that Way doesn't hold your hand and the disorientating moments compliment the story style and attitude the book has and in the end any scenes that lack context are made good on.

And how can you not like Shade haha

Yeah all I really know about him is he used to be the leader and put the team together and then betrayed them (possibly he set them up so they would end up with there powers if I remember correctly). I thought the little set up pages with him were a nice way to set it up.

Well having read it again I just think it reads better in trade with the arc all at once. A lot of the mysterys do kind of explain themselves shortly after but if your waiting a month before picking it up again can be a little confusing over the first few issues.

I know I'm in the minority but just nothing appealed to me much about Shade, the art was great, but I didn't really find the high school family life bit that interesting and then again didn't really find the crazy space part that interesting.

 

[JordanDeGroot]

It is always depends how they are written.That what makes or breaks a character. Darkseid is the god of evil that sees everyone beneath him and Joker is just crazy.

Yeah thats what I mean, can sometimes depends on how a character is written, certain characters have more shades of grey than others. I mean at times Ivy has worked with other heroes such as when she was in Birds of Prey, though most of time shes villianous you aren't suprised to see her working with the heroes sometimes in some capacity. Whereas some characters you really can't see helping the heroes at any point, theyd rather the world ends/ a city was destoyed than do any good.

Some characters go back and forth, I mean its somewhat suprising that Deadpool is a hero now, when he started out he was a pretty shitty assassin for hire who must have killed thousands of people and only cared about himself and now hes on Avengers teams.

 

[BKatastrophe]

She is a villain but I wouldn't exactly put here in the league of true evil characters like say Darkseid. On multiple occasions she has helped heroes when there is a greater threat to the city/world in play. Plus a lot of the time she does the things she does to save the environment, she just rates plants and the natural world over people. She seems more like an extreme green peace leader than a true evil psycho ha

She's a mass murderer and possibly other things. Nah she a villain and true extreme psycho. I hardly care about someone's viewpoint if they are committing mass murders. Same with Harley, though she's slightly more redemptive.

 

[JordanDeGroot]

She's a mass murderer and possibly other things. Nah she a villain and true extreme psycho. I hardly care about someone's viewpoint if they are committing mass murders. Same with Harley, though she's slightly more redemptive.

So is Deadpool a villain, should he be taken off the avengers? What about wolverine? Should they both be in jail then. I'm not saying she's not a villain just that theres shades of greys for some characters and how grey they are can often depend on how there being written at the time. Whereas some characters are just pure and out evil.

 

[JordanDeGroot]

Maybe I'm just confusing things when I said she was more of an anti-hero at the beginning, she probably is in the villain scale, I just mean shes one of the villains that has more shades of grey than some of the other villains.

 

[Corpsepyre]

Any word on how Extremity is by Image Comics?

 

[Messi]

Any word on how Extremity is by Image Comics?

Great

 

[Donniewahlberg]

This new book Skybound announced, Evolution, sounds kind of novel. Some good talent involved too. 4 writers, Sebela, Asmus, Keatinge and Williamson with Joe Infurnari on pencils.

https://www.skybound.com/comics/announcing-evolution/

 

[shingi70]

Ivy is as much as a Villian as Ra's is. I will say she's shown to be better for the green they swamp thing is.

 

[Brian Fellows]

This new book Skybound announced, Evolution, sounds kind of novel. Some good talent involved too. 4 writers, Sebela, Asmus, Keatinge and Williamson with Joe Infurnari on pencils.

https://www.skybound.com/comics/announcing-evolution/

So many horror titles from Image this year.

 

[Sandfox]

Six episodes into Defenders so far and I'm liking it.

So many horror titles from Image this year.

That's exactly what I thought when saw the book. Everyone is jumping on the horror train.

 

[BKatastrophe]

So is Deadpool a villain, should he be taken off the avengers? What about wolverine? Should they both be in jail then. I'm not saying she's not a villain just that theres shades of greys for some characters and how grey they are can often depend on how there being written at the time. Whereas some characters are just pure and out evil.

Maybe I'm just confusing things when I said she was more of an anti-hero at the beginning, she probably is in the villain scale, I just mean shes one of the villains that has more shades of grey than some of the other villains.

I've mentioned the parts of Ivy that could be construed as anti-heroic and I never said there's no hope for redemption, but as it stands she is a full blown villain. There's no denying that. Fighting for the environment is great, but what's the point if you'rw just murdering people?

Viewpoints only go so far. You cannot deny the moral weight of actions.

 

[Messi]

I've mentioned the parts of Ivy that could be construed as anti-heroic and I never said there's no hope for redemption, but as it stands she is a full blown villain. There's no denying that. Fighting for the environment is great, but what's the point if you'rw just murdering people?

Viewpoints only go so far. You cannot deny the moral weight of actions.

Follow Ivy Girls feed. You will see.

She even hates how she is depicted in Harley's series. As a friend and not a co star.

 

[JordanDeGroot]

I've mentioned the parts of Ivy that could be construed as anti-heroic and I never said there's no hope for redemption, but as it stands she is a full blown villain. There's no denying that. Fighting for the environment is great, but what's the point if you'rw just murdering people?

Viewpoints only go so far. You cannot deny the moral weight of actions.

Well maybe its the fact you can see that the chance of her redeeming herself in there, every action she's done hasn't been bad, she has worked with the good guys plenty of times and done good deeds. She does care about some other people such as Harley.

She has done actions that are morally wrong, but would you really suprised if a writer tried to redeem her and make her more of an anti-hero, I know I wouldn't. Whereas I really would be suprised if they did with the joker or darkseid.

Characters can have moraly awful pasts and end up as more heroic characters, all depends on how a character is written currently. Like I mentioned before Deadpool is a mass murdering former assassin for hire, who killed thousands of people just for money and the fun of it (in my eyes thats even more morally wrong than Ivy, at least she has a strong view of the world and love for environment that fuels her) but like I said hes an Avenger these days. A lot of it depends on how a character may be written at the moment.

 

[JordanDeGroot]

Maybe just what I'm trying to get at is that she maybe a villain at the moment, but in my opinion theres shades of grey in villains with some a lot darker than her. She may not be an anti-hero currently but there has been hints in her character and in stories she's been in the past that she would have the capablility to be more of an anti-hero if a certain writer wanted to take the character that way.

 

[Captain Skeleton]

Maybe just what I'm trying to get at is that she maybe a villain at the moment, but in my opinion theres shades of grey in villains with some a lot darker than her. She may not be an anti-hero currently but there has been hints in her character and in stories she's been in the past that she would have the capablility to be more of an anti-hero if a certain writer wanted to take the character that way.

I agree. I've always seen Ivy like Freeze. They aren't constant threats but will flair up. I liked how in Gotham Central, one of Gothams Park's just belongs to Ivy.

 

[MHWilliams]

Well maybe its the fact you can see that the chance of her redeeming herself in there, every action she's done hasn't been bad, she has worked with the good guys plenty of times and done good deeds. She does care about some other people such as Harley.

She has done actions that are morally wrong, but would you really suprised if a writer tried to redeem her and make her more of an anti-hero, I know I wouldn't. Whereas I really would be suprised if they did with the joker or darkseid.

Characters can have moraly awful pasts and end up as more heroic characters, all depends on how a character is written currently. Like I mentioned before Deadpool is a mass murdering former assassin for hire, who killed thousands of people just for money and the fun of it (in my eyes thats even more morally wrong than Ivy, at least she has a strong view of the world and love for environment that fuels her) but like I said hes an Avenger these days. A lot of it depends on how a character may be written at the moment.

Maybe just what I'm trying to get at is that she maybe a villain at the moment, but in my opinion theres shades of grey in villains with some a lot darker than her. She may not be an anti-hero currently but there has been hints in her character and in stories she's been in the past that she would have the capablility to be more of an anti-hero if a certain writer wanted to take the character that way.

If your posts are 5-10 minute apart, just edit your last post instead of making a new one.

New 52 Ivy has clearly killed scores of innocent people. Her issue of Forever Evil was half-that, half-origin story.

That said, they have always played with Ivy on the redemptive side of things. Especially in her Birds of Prey incarnation.

 

[JordanDeGroot]

I agree. I've always seen Ivy like Freeze. They aren't constant threats but will flair up. I liked how in Gotham Central, one of Gothams Park's just belongs to Ivy.

The batman universe has so many great characters, its a shame characters like Freeze and Ivy havent had much book time recently. I would love a good character study arc on one of those characters, thats what I was hoping Snyder was going to be doing on All Star but it really didn't turn out that way sadly.


Edit - Yeah sorry on the over posts everyone

 

[LordOfLore]

New RYV creative team in Legacy: Jody Houser and Nick Roche

Captain America #695 is set months after Secret Empire.

 

[BKatastrophe]

I'm not saying Ivy can't be redeemed or shouldn't be, but as it stands, she's a damn villain. If someone tried to redeem her, it'd be fine and I'd have no issues. Look at Killer Frost.

 

[LordOfLore]

Fabok posted the Dawnbreaker cover:

For those wondering what this Batman's origin was, some site apparently got to read it as part of some PR thing and it's pretty dark:

Spoiler

Bruce runs after the killer to confront him instead of just staying with his parents corpses. The power ring shows up just as he reaches the killer due to fighting his fear and showing such a strong will. He puts it on and crushes the killer into pretty much just blood before leaving the alley.

 

[Captain Skeleton]

The batman universe has so many great characters, its a shame characters like Freeze and Ivy havent had much book time recently. I would love a good character study arc on one of those characters, thats what I was hoping Snyder was going to be doing on All Star but it really didn't turn out that way sadly.

Completely agreed. I wonder if Ivy needs a bit of a modern freshening up? Like go whole hog into the eco terrorist angle?

Metal thoughts.

Spoiler

Could that mental device that Batman made to train future Batmen be the cause of this dark multiverse with all these nightmare Batmen?

 

[VanWinkle]

Yea pretty much. I think you’ll enjoy it.

Yeah

Imagine Dixon's Nightwing fused with Grayson and that's the book you have.

Yeah

That's great. Exactly what I wanted. Thanks guys.

 

[Messi]

New RYV creative team in Legacy: Jody Houser and Nick Roche

Captain America #695 is set months after Secret Empire.

Good team

 

[TetraxShards]

New RYV creative team in Legacy: Jody Houser and Nick Roche

Captain America #695 is set months after Secret Empire.

Nick Roche not drawing giant robots? BLASPHEMY!

Seriously though, good for him, he is super talented. I'll check the new run out for sure.

 

[LordOfLore]

All-New All-Different Sinister Six for Miles.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Fabok posted the Dawnbreaker cover:


For those wondering what this Batman's origin was, some site apparently got to read it as part of some PR thing and it's pretty dark:

Spoiler

Bruce runs after the killer to confront him instead of just staying with his parents corpses. The power ring shows up just as he reaches the killer due to fighting his fear and showing such a strong will. He puts it on and crushes the killer into pretty much just blood before leaving the alley.

JFC. These Dark Knights do not mess around.

 

[LordOfLore]

Krampusnacht preview.

Panel from The Red Death:

 

[Aizo]

I'll have to rely on you guys to tell me which Metal tie ins are worth reading.

 

[tim1138]

Fabok posted the Dawnbreaker cover:


For those wondering what this Batman's origin was, some site apparently got to read it as part of some PR thing and it's pretty dark:

Spoiler

Bruce runs after the killer to confront him instead of just staying with his parents corpses. The power ring shows up just as he reaches the killer due to fighting his fear and showing such a strong will. He puts it on and crushes the killer into pretty much just blood before leaving the alley.

You forgot the most horrorific part of all, it's being drawn by Ethan van Sciver

 

[echoshifting]

I liked All-New Guardians of the Galaxy #8, but I feel the

Spoiler

Evil Groot teases have gone on long enough. I found myself saying "oh, again?"

Also...did Star-Lord

Spoiler

just hand a pair of Nega-Bands to some version of Ultron??? Throwing them through a portal with an evil Darkhawk seems like a pretty bad idea in any case

 

[GAMEPROFF]

All New Guardians sounds so good, but the art is Eye cancer

 

[Donniewahlberg]

You forgot the most horrorific part of all, it's being drawn by Ethan van Sciver

Mmm, no thanks

 

[Messi]

All New Guardians sounds so good, but the art is Eye cancer

I couldn't disagree more with this if I tried lol.

I have two pages of the art lol

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

I wonder if they will explain what is the deal with Dawnbreaker's mouth?

 

[BrightLightLava]

I couldn't disagree more with this if I tried lol.

I have two pages of the art lol

Yeah, I think everything looks great.




...With the slight exception of Star Lord's beard.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

All New Guardians sounds so good, but the art is Eye cancer

I can't believe I'm about to come in here and defend a marvel book, but what are you talking about??

 

[frye]

i'm all for creative freedom and all but maybe unleashing bruce timm on the dc universe without any constraints was a mistake, he might be the horniest man alive