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[Kayant]

Marketing for this game was poor. Picked it up on pc this weekend after hearing about it. Played for a while and it was fun. Didn't have issue getting into matches although it sometimes matches you into a generic unbalanced death match for a bit while it fills out teams on both sides (great feature by the way).

I wouldn't say it was necessarily poor it was just not geared too well towards pulling in a mass audience. They had several events where they brought in YouTube/Twitch personalities and made some event feedback video where people praised the game after trying it. In addition to many "sponsor" streams during betas as well as at launch on Twitch.

This game should have been on Xbox to take advantage of CliffyB's work on gears, which was Xbox only and has its loyal fans still on Xbox. Although maybe the player base on PS4 is better than steam.

Also the game doesn't seem a good fit for f2p right now, as the heroes are really just classes and there aren't that many of them.

It isn't on Xbox has far has we can tell because MS don't push for it as both had an equal chance of it coming has far what's in the public domain shows(separate link for tweet about Sony checking it out). It's mainly not happening along side PS4 due to porting cost/studio size has they can only handle one other platform at their current state.

Evolve waited way too long.

However Evolve didn't have the competition LB has. I think you're right hat it won't help much.

I doubt that was what killed then given the huge uptake in playerbase from several hundred to 51k players then dropped 13k the next month. Of course you still argue it was the wait that made people leave but when you have similar drops in interest like with launch month of the game then something is wrong with the game's appeal. Given you wouldn't expect such mass drop in interest after a short while of dropping the entry barrier.

Player rentention/lack of good monetisation after conversion is what killed it.

Really incomparable situations imo. Sure, it's not guaranteed but to assume there is no point in trying is just plain wrong. Paladins is a f2p in this sort of team based, character, fps space and is doing great.

See above in why there isn't a point in trying here too arguably.

And I would argue they are still somewhat not comparable whilst LB has elements shared by Paladins such as those it doesn't have arena shooter elements like been very fast paced and is generally has a higher skill gap. Without considering the other elements people talk about like art style(Seems fine to me) that seemingly not as inviting.

If you look at other pure arena shooters or styled shooters on the market you will see that they don't have mass appeal as they once might have had. I feel that is one of the fundamental barriers here. Of course not dismissing any of those with the game itself.

 

[Machina]

CliffyBomba

 

[phant0m]

Not sure if bad game or bad timing. Competitive multi is super hard to crack right now, there's genuinely too much shit to play. Tacticool fans are split between CS:GO and R6:S, both of which have a strong community and are far from stale (

Spoiler

Destiny 2's new mode

will take some of the casual audience). Arena shooter revival with Toxikk, UT, Quake Champions, the latter of which seems to be the victor.

Quasi-MOBAs like Paragon and Battleborn (lol).

Overwatch owns the hero shooter, and since LawBreakers was going after it....

 

[Kayant]

It is extremely ironic, as he mentioned PC and PS4 were chose for 'business reasons- they couldn't afford to do 3 versions and Xbox has the lowest pop...

I guarantee more than 500 Xbox gamers would play this daily.

Based on what? We don't have PS4 numbers to see how that is going.

Either way MS had their chance and clearly didn't take it as far as we know because both had an equal chance of happening. MS and Sony were shown the game around the same time.

And it's indeed because of 'business reasons' as they are a small studio and more than likely couldn't support 3 platforms for a launch timeframe. Plus no formal exclusivity has been announced.

 

[Seth Enosh]

I wouldn't say it was necessarily poor it was just not geared too well towards pulling in a mass audience. They had several events where they brought in YouTube/Twitch personalities and made some event feedback video where people praised the game after trying it. In addition to many "sponsor" streams during betas as well as at launch on Twitch.

Maybe, it feels like they failed to let a lot of people know about it. Heck, multiple people in this thread had the impression it was PC only and not on PS4 (this is an example of poor marketing, cliffyB going out a year or two ago saying it was PC only seems to have confused people up to now).

It isn't on Xbox has far has we can tell because MS don't push for it as both had an equal chance of it coming has far what's in the public domain shows(separate link for tweet about Sony checking it out). It's mainly not happening along side PS4 due to porting cost/studio size has they can only handle one other platform at their current state.

Understandable but I feel like on Xbox there could have been a good opportunity. That said people in here are claiming the PS4 version population is better so maybe PS4 was an ok choice.

If you look at other pure arena shooters or styled shooters on the market you will see that they don't have mass appeal as they once might have had. I feel that is one of the fundamental barriers here. Of course not dismissing any of those with the game itself.

This is where i wonder if the constant comparisons with Overwatch are misleading and if the game marketing failed to differentiate itself from Overwatch properly. I see a lot of people in this thread referencing this game and OW as if LB were just a clone of OW. Cliffy probably didn't help his case here with the "overwatch is more anime style" comment rather than focusing on the gameplay differences.

Considering the active population of an early access game like Quake Champions which is a similar arena style game to LB, it feels like different marketing could have maybe done something here. Not to the level of cliffy's dream of a billion dollar franchise but something better than 300 peak concurrent players.

Edit: FWIW played it again tonight and didn't have any problems matchmaking, played for about an hour with some people cycling in and out of the lobby. So at least it's still matchmaking fine despite the low population for now. Guess I should play as much as I can in case things get worse. This game's peak population is already at the level of Planetary Annihilation.

 

[Brazil]

How bad it's the situation of this game in Steam? Currently out of Top 200, and getting really close to be out of the Top 300.

That's not how top lists work.

 

[5taquitos]

There's probably more people talking about the game in this thread than actually playing it.

 

[VexyWexy]

Characters are the LEAST important aspect of a shooter. The game is beyond alright - it's extremely good. Also, I really like the characters - some remind me of Twisted Metal a lot.

Well if they do go F2P characters become extremely important, because nobody is going to buy loot boxes to get skins for characters if they don't like the way they look.

 

[wbarreda]

Understandable but I feel like on Xbox there could have been a good opportunity. That said people in here are claiming the PS4 version population is better so maybe PS4 was an ok choice.

Maybe the PC version was the bad choice with these steam numbers. Bosskey might have been better off making a PS4 and Xbox version.

 

[Seth Enosh]

Maybe the PC version was the bad choice with these steam numbers. Bosskey might have been better off making a PS4 and Xbox version.

Yeah, they wouldn't have to compete against the PUBG hype on xbox until later this year, whereas on steam they are really getting overshadowed.

(PUBG is starting to look like the billion dollar game franchise that cliffy set out to create, ironically)

 

[GiantBombGamer]

I feel for the developers, programmers, ect. They made a solid game. They were kind of sabotaged by upper management decisions...switching from not being F2P, having a beta during a holiday, not doing enough marketing, releasing at the back half of summer when people are busy doing other things/anticipating the AAA shooters that are a month out, the decision to make "edgy" characters that don't really resonate today. On top of that, they had Cliffy B who is already polarizing out saying stupid things to the press which even turned me off.

There is a solid game and mechanics in there, shame.

 

[mullet2000]

This is a real bummer. I've spent about 8 hours with the game and I really enjoyed what I've played so far.

Though, I'll admit that since Quake Champions came out last week I've been playing that instead. I plan to play more Lawbreakers, but bad timing for sure.

 

[Budi]

You must be blind to not be able to see how that comment was meant to be derogatory, come on dude.

You need to be extremely sensitive and protectful of a commercial product to think that as derogatory. It was about the differences in art style and what Cliffy prefers himself. Not that the other is objectively worse, since neither one is. And it was true too. Take a look at the fan art thread and see the plentiful anime inspired art.

Or you really must hate anime and people who watch it.

This is where i wonder if the constant comparisons with Overwatch are misleading and if the game marketing failed to differentiate itself from Overwatch properly. I see a lot of people in this thread referencing this game and OW as if LB were just a clone of OW. Cliffy probably didn't help his case here with the "overwatch is more anime style" comment rather than focusing on the gameplay differences.

He made these things clear too, but people kept going with the anime comment ignoring the rest.

 

[Kalnos]

How bad it's the situation of this game in Steam? Currently out of Top 200, and getting really close to be out of the Top 300.

Bout to be less than Quake Live, that's when you know you're dead lmao

 

[T-0800]

I've said this several times but what this game needs now is a free to play weekend. Overwatch has done that a few times and it sold me on the game. I'll try it out and who knows, maybe I'll buy it.

 

[grandwizard]

You need to be extremely sensitive and protectful of a commercial product to think that as derogatory. It was about the differences in art style and what Cliffy prefers himself. Not that the other is objectively worse, since neither one is. And it was true too. Take a look at the fan art thread and see the plentiful anime inspired art.

Or you really must hate anime and people who watch it.

The amount of perceived slights from Cliffy B during the run up to this game is ever growing. There's even a contingent of people happy the game failed because he added non-gendered restrooms to BossKey's studio.

 

[panty]

I kinda feel bad for Cliff

 

[Budi]

The amount of perceived slights from Cliffy B during the run up to this game is ever growing. There's even a contingent of people happy the game failed because he added non-gendered restrooms to BossKey's studio.

Yup there is. And it's quite sad that the inclusiveness of the game, like anything else positive about the game, gets so overshadowed by the low player count. The poor sales and hating on Cliffy B is all people seem to care about when it comes to this. The characters get mocked for being uninspiring/dull, but not complimented for being diverse.

 

[Rmagnus]

I hope it doesn't becomes free to play, personally don't think it's good for the market of games that failed becomes f2p. It might factor into the design of a game. Not saying that's the case here

 

[michaelius]

Counter-Strike and Rainbow Six Siege says no. Over-saturation is a safer bet imo.

Yeah - there's only so many of those multiplayer games you can play at the same time. So to get players you have to take them from like of CSGO, Overwatch, Rainbow Six, GTA Online, all the Battlefields and Cods and dozens if not more smaller games.

 

[Rickenslacker]

I really did not care for most of the character designs, but what really pushed me away from the game is just too much stuff out to play right now. My multiplayer time budget is tapped, and in a world with a new Quake and Cliffy game, Quake's the one that wins me over.

 

[CommandThrower]

It may yet get a second wind. There's no way to tell for sure, but I believe in LB and Boss Key Productions.


Oversaturation of the genre is perhaps the biggest factor going against LB. If it ends up going the way of Titanfall 2, then that is extremely unfortunate.

 

[VeeP]

^^^ TF2 is doing a lot better than this game if we're going by populations alone lol.

Xbox Launch would have helped a bit. Not sure how much cost is involved launching on another system. Poor Cliffy. You gave me Gears

Xbox version might've even sold the best. TF2 had the highest population on X1, sometimes double that of PS4. This was before it went on EA Access.

 

[SimpleCRIPPLE]

^^^ TF2 is doing a lot better than this game if we're going by populations alone lol.




Xbox version might've even sold the best. TF2 had the highest population on X1, sometimes double that of PS4. This was before it went on EA Access.

Cliff’s name might have actually meant something as well. He might have benefitted from some form of Gears loyalty.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

As much as I dislike Cliffy B, I don't think he's a bad developer. Lawbreakers is a good game that came out at the wrong time. Market saturation is a problem here. For me personally, I'm already jumping between OW, Splatoon 2 and Rocket League. I've got no urge to start playing another competitive online game unless you can really dazzle me with a new concept. Lawbreakers doesn't distinguish itself this way.

 

[Stop It]

I still don't understand what is wrong with that opinion. I don't agree that it's catering to anime fans, but I really have no idea why anyone would think that's an inflammatory, offensive, or dumb thing to say.

Just a hint, in case it isn't obvious:

You should never try to shrink your potential customer base before your game has even launched. By insinuation, Cliff alienated many gamers who may have gave Lawbreakers a chance but didn't like being pigeonholed because they also like Overwatch.

The game is a case study on how not to announce, market, or position a game. From the initial shock "edgy" stuff that ended up being largely ditched, the comparisons to Overwatch, and simply not getting people on board with the game outside of their hardcore support.

In fact, the doubling down I've seen from fans who can't bear to see fault here is indicative of why the game is failing. For every one like you stubbornly defending the game from "unreasonable" negatively, there 10 more who could've been players but just aren't interested any more.

The game needs a key change, starting with how Cliff presents himself and his pitch for Lawbreakers.

Oh, and to address your earlier post about BossKey bring small and indie. Maybe true but they were backed by Nexon, who are huge. They had the potential resources but squandered them and it's perfectly legitimate to be critical of indie Devs as well as AAA ones.

 

[grandwizard]

Yup there is. And it's quite sad that the inclusiveness of the game, like anything else positive about the game, gets so overshadowed by the low player count. The poor sales and hating on Cliffy B is all people seem to care about when it comes to this. The characters get mocked for being uninspiring/dull, but not complimented for being diverse.

Yeah well there is a lot of things people complained about online and then didn't show up to support when this game nailed all of it: Dedicated servers, diverse cast with not overly sexualized female designs, free DLC and frequent updates, amazing netcode, high skill ceiling and advanced movement, and appropriate price for a multiplayer only title.

Two big misconceptions I'm seeing in this thread is one that the PS4 version is doing a lot better than the PC. A dev posted an internal graph on the official discord that showed PS4 numbers to be lower than the PC ones, but not by that much. Sadly the game isn't doing well on any platform, but it just shows how as long as people can find matches that they don't actually notice low player counts unless it is publically available data that gets posted everywhere on the internet like Steam's do.

The other thing is the people gloating that Quake Champions is doing way better and should probly check that:

(Yes, I know the game is also on the Bethesda launcher, but considering the matchmaking times even before the Steam launch were awful I can't imagine there is many using that either)
The fact is this style of game just isn't finding an audience anymore with modern gamers. With Quake having the big brand behind it I expect it to do a lot better but it hasn't so far and my guess is it will drop off as well in the coming weeks.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

Jesus fucking Christ at Brink having more players than this.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

I wanted to add a poll but I was worried people would blame Nirolak.

So just to be clear:

Question: F2P?

Choice 1: Before December 31st, 2017

Choice 2: After December 31st, 2017

Before September 32nd

 

[Card Boy]

The other thing is the people gloating that Quake Champions is doing way better and should probly check that:

(Yes, I know the game is also on the Bethesda launcher, but considering the matchmaking times even before the Steam launch were awful I can't imagine there is many using that either)
The fact is this style of game just isn't finding an audience anymore with modern gamers. With Quake having the big brand behind it I expect it to do a lot better but it hasn't so far and my guess is it will drop off as well in the coming weeks.

Not a valid comparison either. Quake Champions is going to be F2P. No point buying the game unless you want early access to the beta or an exclusive skin. The all champions pack will be offered when it becomes F2P just without the skins.

 

[Shifty]

I wanted to add a poll but I was worried people would blame Nirolak.

So just to be clear:

Question: F2P?

Choice 1: Before December 31st, 2017

Choice 2: After December 31st, 2017

Wobbuffet.

 

[Shambala]

That knack 2 demo got them playing the PS4. It’s all over now

 

[ManUnkindH]

Billion dollar franchise right here.

Oh, Cliffy Cliffy

 

[Bollocks]

is it a bigger blunder than Starhawk?

 

[grandwizard]

Not a valid comparison either. Quake Champions is going to be F2P. No point buying the game unless you want early access to the beta or an exclusive skin. The all champions pack will be offered when it becomes F2P just without the skins.

They are both $30 throwback games that came out in the exact same time frame, of course they can be compared. If the argument is that people are holding off Quake Champions because it's known it will eventually be f2p, the same can be said for Lawbreakers with the dozens of articles about how it's going to fail before it even came out and them holding out for f2p as well.

There's also the fact that the Steam release is usually the most attention a game is going to get in it's lifetime and transitioning from early access to f2p isn't going to make as much of a splash. The game was also front page featured for days on Steam because of the Quakecon sale.

 

[Forerunner]

Things they could have done better:

Marketing: All that skilled AF shit needed to go. Sure, the game has a higher skill ceiling than most, but all it does is turn off players if you're constantly talking about how skilled and hardcore the game is.

Pricing: It should have launched F2P, like it originally was going to. They should have used a model similar to Paladins or QC.

Characters: This is a big one. The characters have no charm or personality whatsoever. Do you think OW would be as big as it is if it had characters like LB? Of course not.

That being said they did a lot of things right. The gameplay, modes, and maps are all great. Each class is also unique and fun to play as. It's a shame, the game barely has 100 players atm (it's 2am during the middle of the week though).

 

[Turin Turambar]

They are both $30 throwback games that came out in the exact same time frame, of course they can be compared. If the argument is that people are holding off Quake Champions because it's known it will eventually be f2p, the same can be said for Lawbreakers with the dozens of articles about how it's going to fail before it even came out and them holding out for f2p as well.

There's also the fact that the Steam release is usually the most attention a game is going to get in it's lifetime and transitioning from early access to f2p isn't going to make as much of a splash. The game was also front page featured for days on Steam because of the Quakecon sale.

Nah you are wrong. Most people will play a game when it's out. Quake Champions isn't out. You can pay $30 to play it earlier in beta, but most people will just wait until the game is released, and they can play for free.

The fact that >30000 people already have paid $30 for a F2P game it's a decent indicator.

 

[satan in a shirt]

weren't they supposed to be making a story campaign for this game, originally? I would have been more interested in this, then.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Yup there is. And it's quite sad that the inclusiveness of the game, like anything else positive about the game, gets so overshadowed by the low player count. The poor sales and hating on Cliffy B is all people seem to care about when it comes to this. The characters get mocked for being uninspiring/dull, but not complimented for being diverse.

I think Lawbreakers would've had a much better chance if it weren't tied to Cliffy B. With his name anchored to it, Lawbreakers garnered all sorts of attention that it wouldn't have, had it just been a great indie multiplayer shooter.

 

[Kayant]

Nah you are wrong. Most people will play a game when it's out. Quake Champions isn't out. You can pay $30 to play it earlier in beta, but most people will just wait until the game is released, and they can play for free.

The fact that >30000 people already have paid $30 for a F2P game it's a decent indicator.

We shall see but am with grandwizard here that the style of game is still going to be a limiting factor.

If we're talking steam spy numbers then LB is at 73k for the same current entry point. Of course as you said this will be F2P so entry barrier will be reduced and player numbers will go up the question be is it able to retain the vast majority it puts or just the die hards like with most games of the style on the market today.

 

[Zojirushi]

I think Lawbreakers would've had a much better chance if it weren't tied to Cliffy B. With his name anchored to it, Lawbreakers garnered all sorts of attention that it wouldn't have, had it just been a great indie multiplayer shooter.

Man I super must've missed the point where everyone suddenly hates Cliff. What the hell happened after the Gears days??

 

[paperlynx]

They were always aiming for a bit of a niche audience, and the market is already saturated with this kind of fps

Shame though, the game is pretty good

 

[Nightfall]

I wanted to add a poll but I was worried people would blame Nirolak.

So just to be clear:

Question: F2P?

Choice 1: Before December 31st, 2017

Choice 2: After December 31st, 2017

None of that 60$ multiplayer only bullshit

 

[bee]

The other thing is the people gloating that Quake Champions is doing way better and should probly check that:

(Yes, I know the game is also on the Bethesda launcher, but considering the matchmaking times even before the Steam launch were awful I can't imagine there is many using that either)
The fact is this style of game just isn't finding an audience anymore with modern gamers. With Quake having the big brand behind it I expect it to do a lot better but it hasn't so far and my guess is it will drop off as well in the coming weeks.

it's easy to post low quake champions numbers, just take a screenshot when europe is in bed/at work (was 1800 online last night just on steam) but the game has a following who've been playing for decades unlike lawbreakers, it won't drop off imo and actually seems to be getting a decent amount of new players

 

[Q8D3vil]

Feel sorry for the people who worked on this game, but it could have really used a better polish when it comes to character design and ui in general without compromising their vision of it being a hardcore fast pace shooter.

 

[grandwizard]

it's easy to post low quake champions numbers, just take a screenshot when europe is in bed/at work (was 1800 online last night just on steam) but the game has a following who've been playing for decades unlike lawbreakers, it won't drop off imo and actually seems to be getting a decent amount of new players

The 24 hour peak is right in the screenshot. That's a perfectly playable number but lets not pretend its setting the world on fire.

 

[Joohanh]

this just in: amount of people lamenting lawbreakers player count greater than lawbreakers player count

 

[StrategyFan]

so dooming games based on player counts wasn't enough

now you have to doom games based on early access player counts as well

 

[Trup1aya]

Based on what? We don't have PS4 numbers to see how that is going.

Either way MS had their chance and clearly didn't take it as far as we know because both had an equal chance of happening. MS and Sony were shown the game around the same time.

And it's indeed because of 'business reasons' as they are a small studio and more than likely couldn't support 3 platforms for a launch timeframe. Plus no formal exclusivity has been announced.

That's fine and all. I know why they couldn't support 3 platforms. I'm just saying they chose the wrong 2 platforms.

I'm aware of what their business reasons were. I just think their market analysis failed them.

Xbox has experiencing a drought of new quality, the playerbase has an affinity towards shooters, the playerbase has a history with Cliffy and I think they would have been more receptive to this game than the PC community has shown to be be.

Xbox is probably the only platform where arena style shooters have maintained any sort of relevance, thanks to Halo.

In general, shooters do really well on Xbox- disproportionately well incomparison to its installed base and lack of marketing partnerships compared to PS4, for example.

My comment was not about MS missing their chance- more like Lawbreakers missing it's chance on MS' platform. Of course this is all speculative - we have no proof of what would have happened in my alternate reality - but this is what I suspect.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Whew. I wonder how much they put into dev and marketing...