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Star Trek: Discovery |OT| To Boldly Stream Where No One Has Streamed Before

M

Morts

Member
jiji said:
I'm still trying to reconcile the idea that Klingons haven't been encountered by the Feddies in 100 years with the idea that there was a Klingon attack on a Vulcan settlement of some kind within the past 30 years, and the idea that a founding member of the Federation wouldn't have shared a key tactic they adopted for dealing with a dangerous foe.

In reality, yes, it's probably just sloppy writing, but when you claim to be telling a story set in existing continuity, that's a commitment to a certain level of consistency.
Click to expand...

They mentioned they hadn't encountered the Klingons in 100 years except for some scattered engagements. The Vulcan tactics thing is weird though.
 
N

Nete

Member
I really liked these two episodes. There's a lot of things to nitpick for, but overall I liked what they have done. Fuck the sitting hologram tho.

And I still can't believe we are getting a gorgeous looking, high budget Star Trek show.


For the non-US people, can the season promo be seen anywhere?
 
T

Triggerhappytel

Member
Nete said:
I really liked these two episodes. There's a lot of things to nitpick for, but overall I liked what they have done. Fuck the sitting hologram tho.

And I still can't believe we are getting a gorgeous looking, high budget Star Trek show.


For the non-US people, can the season promo be seen anywhere?
Click to expand...

It's on Netflix here in the UK. I plan to watch it later, hopefully.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
MHWilliams said:
Why is the first "Why isn't this more realistic" and the second "Why isn't this more like a TV show?" Why would Klingons speak English in their own ships, other than for the conceit of a television show?
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They should speak English for the conceit of a television show. Having to read the subtitles takes away the capability to watch what's going on on screen. It also heavily cripples the actors' capability to deliver the emotion especially considering they already are limited due to the prosthetic makeup.. To me, all of the Klingon scenes felt the same because it was minutes of just dialogue nobody can understand.
Earlier Trek shows were aware of that, which is why the Klingons always spoke English aside from a few words thrown in (and a few exceptions of, say, rituals, which also never were more than a handful of lines).

Also, my first point isn't exactly a "why isn't it more realistic". I mean, if you have a line like "the forecast is radiated with some chance for debris" or something like that - do you really think that kind of wisecracking has a place on a starship? Again, to bring up older Trek shows, there was wisecracking when there was a time and place but there never was this kind of cheesy stereotypical film humour, and while I know that kind of attitude towards dialogue is very common in more modern TV and film, I simply would have appreciated if the tone of the show was in line with Star Trek and not MCU movies.

KojiKnight said:
Federation isn't a traditional military, they are afterall primarily explorers. This was a vessel who's main purpose was to audit some sensor buoys. I'm sure their environment was a lot more relaxed than, say, the fleet admirals.
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I know that, but it's military nonetheless.
 
A

aHebrewMenagerie

Member
wetflame said:
I get the feeling that the reason the Klingons were redesigned is less to put their own stamp on them or update them, and more just to separate them from these guys:



I feel like the TNG era onwards (especially in DS9) Klingons have been basically blunted to the point of being a bit of a joke. People are so used to them being portrayed as drunken warriors that I don't think they'd been seen as a true threat to the Federation if they used the old makeup. This helps to separate them from that era and makes them appear a lot more menacing. I like mixing it up in that way.
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I just wish they had hair still
 
D

DrBo42

Member
Nete said:
I really liked these two episodes. There's a lot of things to nitpick for, but overall I liked what they have done. Fuck the sitting hologram tho.

And I still can't believe we are getting a gorgeous looking, high budget Star Trek show.


For the non-US people, can the season promo be seen anywhere?
Click to expand...

Remind me where this was?

Edit: Oh when they're talking in the office. Lol. Yeah I laughed at that bit.
 
P

Paganmoon

Member
Anyone else get mighty strange color changes in the first 5 minutes on Netflix, like the stream went up and down in brightness at times and colors sometimes went from the bright yellow sand color, to darker brown color, like within the same scene/shot.

And now the intro is way too bright (compared to the intro released earlier). Somethings fishy here.

edit: there it goes again, at around 9 minutes 18 seconds into the episode, distinct lowering of brightness. Going back a few seconds, and it's brighter and exakt same point, it changes. So I'd say definitely to do with the stream.
 
J

JonnyDBrit

Member
Paganmoon said:
Anyone else get mighty strange color changes in the first 5 minutes on Netflix, like the stream went up and down in brightness at times and colors sometimes went from the bright yellow sand color, to darker brown color, like within the same scene/shot.

And now the intro is way too bright (compared to the intro released earlier). Somethings fishy here.
Click to expand...

If you look in the various streaming bitrates (Ctrl + Alt + S on PC), you can see that there's actually two options at the moment - one of which is marked '(ic)'. So I think one of the source files may be borked, yes.
 
P

Paganmoon

Member
JonnyDBrit said:
If you look in the various streaming bitrates (Ctrl + Alt + S on PC), you can see that there's actually two options at the moment - one of which is marked '(ic)'. So I think one of the source files may be borked, yes.
Click to expand...

ahh, ok, thanks for verifying I'm not going crazy.

Edit: though if it's got to do with it switching streams/bitrates, I shouldn't be able to replicate it at the same place, unless all sources have the same issue?
Edit2: tried overriding the bitrates, still same issue, so I'm guessing it's a source issue. Strange it's not reported on more to @Netflix twitter account. Then again, most people might not care as much.
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
Effect said:
That depends on where you are. In the US you have to use CBS All Access. In Canada it's on Space and CraveTV. Everywhere else it's on Netflix. The first 2 episodes are up on all services.
Click to expand...
Thanks man. Guess I'll be waiting till the full season hits Netflix.
 
C

Chiaroscuro

Member
Just watched the first 2 episodes and I like them. Good production values. I was always found of Star Trek but usually find its sciense too loose and not believable.

This show manage to be entertainment enought that you can forget this loose logic. Save from some parts, specially the Klingon light beacon. A new star? What about the light speed? Such beacon would be useless since no one would see it in years...

Plus all that lost contact with Klingons made no sense considering how often they seem to attack.

And the history of Michael being the first human to go through Vulcan education system kind of disminish Spock history.
 
M

Merriweather

Member
It was OK. I'm not quite engaged enough to sign up for CBS All Access as I don't watch much of anything on the network. But if it shows up on Netflix or Prime Video I would check it out further.

Also way to hype this up CBS and not build a buffer into the schedule to make sure football doesn't cause people to miss 15 minutes.
 
J

JonnyDBrit

Member
Chiaroscuro said:
Just watched the first 2 episodes and I like them. Good production values. I was always found of Star Trek but usually find its sciense too loose and not believable.

This show manage to be entertainment enought that you can forget this loose logic. Save from some parts, specially the Klingon light beacon. A new star? What about the light speed? Such beacon would be useless since no one would see it in years...

Plus all that lost contact with Klingons made no sense considering how often they seem to attack.

And the history of Michael being the first human to go through Vulcan education system kind of disminish Spock history.
Click to expand...

Regarding the beacon: Something, something, subspace I guess. That's the usual excuse for detecting and being impacted by shit like that.
 
B

BattleMonkey

Member
While I want this show to succeed, I also don't want it too. Last thing we need is every network start using this show as a reason to create their own separate paid streaming service by locking shows behind it.
 
C

caliph95

Member
As a non-trekkie this is alright for me and because I'm not much of trekkies
watched more sfdebris than episode
and was a fan of the JJ films besides darkness and as a casual it's easier for me to enjoy it I expect
 
P

pitchfork

Member
Paganmoon said:
Anyone else get mighty strange color changes in the first 5 minutes on Netflix, like the stream went up and down in brightness at times and colors sometimes went from the bright yellow sand color, to darker brown color, like within the same scene/shot.

And now the intro is way too bright (compared to the intro released earlier). Somethings fishy here.

edit: there it goes again, at around 9 minutes 18 seconds into the episode, distinct lowering of brightness. Going back a few seconds, and it's brighter and exakt same point, it changes. So I'd say definitely to do with the stream.
Click to expand...

Yeah same happened to me (UK)
 
W

wetflame

Pizza Dog
Did anyone watch the whole of that After Trek program? Seems a bit awkward and stilted, not sure whether to carry on with it. Does it get any better? Any decent stuff in there?
 
L

Lizzy

Unconfirmed Member
jiji said:
I'm still trying to reconcile the idea that Klingons haven't been encountered by the Feddies in 100 years with the idea that there was a Klingon attack on a Vulcan settlement of some kind within the past 30 years, and the idea that a founding member of the Federation wouldn't have shared a key tactic they adopted for dealing with a dangerous foe.

In reality, yes, it's probably just sloppy writing, but when you claim to be telling a story set in existing continuity, that's a commitment to a certain level of consistency.
Click to expand...

It's not possible to know all information at all time. Just because Burnham had to go to Sarek to talk about Vulcan does't mean Vulcan didn't share info on the Klingons.
 
F

Finn of Ooo

Member
Chiaroscuro said:
The beacon was light based. They even said that photon detection was overloaded. The whole idea is just messy writing.
Click to expand...

I thought there was also a frequency being broadcast while the beacon was lit. They mentioned it, what if they're trying to talk to us and then Michael said they might be doing the same thing we are and calling for backup. I agree Sarek seeing it from Vulcan makes no sense.

I haven't seen the second ep but I assumed the beacon was a part of the ritual they were doing. I.e. The torchbearer
 
E

Effect

Member
wetflame said:
Did anyone watch the whole of that After Trek program? Seems a bit awkward and stilted, not sure whether to carry on with it. Does it get any better? Any decent stuff in there?
Click to expand...

Didn't watch the entire time. Not crazy about the host but at least he has a good amount of energy.. I'm willing to give it a few episodes. I didn't like Talking Dead originally either but after a while I just stopped watching unless it was for the premieres and finales.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Finn of Ooo said:
I thought there was also a frequency being broadcast while the beacon was lit. They mentioned it, what if they're trying to talk to us and then Michael said they might be doing the same thing we are and calling for backup. I agree Sarek seeing it from Vulcan makes no sense.

I haven't seen the second ep but I assumed the beacon was a part of the ritual they were doing. I.e. The torchbearer
Click to expand...

Yeah, they did say this. Not sure about how Sarek saw it (though maybe he was told? Idk) but they did specifically mention a frequency.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
This is a very, very different kind of show to normal Trek. I actually like it for that.

If it sticks through with the overall quality of these first two episodes then this will have successfully avoided the problem a couple of Trek shows have had with bad first seasons.

Thoughts on the plot:
I have absolutely no issue with the Klingons. They felt very alien and intense.

The entire structure of these two episodes is really a prequel to, presumably, the next episode where our apparently nuts protagonist gets out of jail and onto the Discovery, which is the actual start of the series. Unless this is a Star Trek prison drama which I am totally down for.

But yeah we have a nutjob as a protagonist, and the entire conflict of her knocking out the captain and then trying to mutiny basically is saying to me "this character's brain turns off for narrative convenience" which is lazy writing.

Normal Trek would have her remove herself from command or something when she realises that her captain will not listen to her. The same basic steps happen except it's her quarters a getting blown up. She makes up with the captain, but oh no the captain dies! So she ends up so dejected by Starfleet protocol getting her friends killed that she quits after the battle. Queue the Discovery's captain recruiting her at the end of episode 2.

The entire stupidity around her mutinying is what makes her really unlikeable right now. I liked our now deceased captain far more as a character and would personally have swapped who died.

Also they had a perfectly good opportunity to get a couple of redshirts murdered in the attempted stealing of the big bad Klingon dude and they didn't take it?

But I DID appreciate that the now dead captain got to fight a massive Klingon. We got something in the Roddenberry tradition -
a lesser show would have not had her fight (or die!) but instead we got a badass captain being all heroic and crap and it was a female Asian actress doing the badassery. Take that Hollywood!
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
I think her
committing mutiny is the entire point and what's supposed to make her different than Riker, et al. She confuses emotion and logic and makes a decision that maybe would've worked, but doesn't. So she has to live with that for the rest of the series. The mutiny was clearly very purposeful, and from the season trailer, she is basically dealing with the reality of what she did for the rest of the season.
 
B

BlackClouds

Member
I watched this as I'm a big Star Trek fan, especially of DS9. It's solid but that might be wishful thinking on my part.

I will say I did not appreciate the racial aspects to a few scenes (Admiral scene and the Klingon homeland tribal rhetoric and a couple others probably the Vulcan education scene too). That character Burnham I strongly dislike because she makes consistently bad decisions so it's hard to empathize about her much. What's sad is that I can't really argue against characters that make almost random and stupid decisions because I have observed people doing just that. I used to rag on entertainment all the time for having characters like that but it's unfortunately real. Still annoying though.

It's new Star Trek with good production values, I'll watch. So far it's better than the Expanse which was total garbage. They are going to have to work hard to rehabilitate Burnham in my eyes though, but I'll give the writers credit as this was their intention I think. She after all got a harsh sentence, and the flashback scene where she was even worse when first introduced onto the ship.
 
D

dionysus

Yaldog
I liked it but it is the opposite of Next Generation in terms of tone. I'd say it is closer to how DS9 got in its darker and more morally ambiguous episodes. Definitely had the irrationality of Voyager thrown in there.

Minor quibble, but no human should be able to fight a Klingon in hand to hand.

Edit. Also I love DS9's depiction of Klingons. The ultimate bros you want with you in the foxhole under fire.
 
G

golem

Member
whyamihere said:
I think her
committing mutiny is the entire point and what's supposed to make her different than Riker, et al. She confuses emotion and logic and makes a decision that maybe would've worked, but doesn't. So she has to live with that for the rest of the series. The mutiny was clearly very purposeful, and from the season trailer, she is basically dealing with the reality of what she did for the rest of the season.
Click to expand...

Yeah i think her main arrogance is believing she has successfully melded her emotions and Vulcan logic into some form of quality decision making where in fact an actual Vulcan, working from the same information she had, would have come to a vastly different conclusion than her logic lead to. I expect the rest of the series to be her figuring out how to better reconcile her upbringing and her emotions. Trying to walk back from a season 5 Sisko to a season 1 perhaps
 
R

radios shipping overview

Member
The thing with Vulcans is that they aren't inherently unemotional, they just have learned to control and repress emotion as a society in favor of logic. So whatever Vulcan education and training Michael received either didn't work very well or failed in the face of her trauma. But her trauma was obvious to her mentors when she was a child, so either her mentors failed her or she's utterly broken.

Lizzy said:
It's not possible to know all information at all time. Just because Burnham had to go to Sarek to talk about Vulcan does't mean Vulcan didn't share info on the Klingons.
Click to expand...

Except when a starship computer system has access to all the knowledge of multiple civilizations at an instant, and when there's presumably at least one tactical officer on board whose job it is to know these things.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
jiji said:
The thing with Vulcans is that they aren't inherently unemotional, they just have learned to control and repress emotion as a society in favor of logic. So whatever Vulcan education and training Michael received either didn't work very well or failed in the face of her trauma. But her trauma was obvious to her mentors when she was a child, so either her mentors failed her or she's utterly broken.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah. That's the point, I think.
 
B

BlackClouds

Member
JonnyDBrit said:
In which case... that's actually a fault of the writing really. Because even within the text of the two episodes by themselves, the Federation logically must have had its own interactions with the Klingons that superseded what the Vulcans had to do, even if it was the same method of 'get in our sights and we will shoot you'. In the wider context of the Trek franchise - its place in which has been heavily emphasized prior to the release of this show - it becomes more glaring because audiences have seen some of those encounters, and yes they did at times involve diplomacy.

Honestly thinking about it, it's a copious lack of detail for what is perhaps the most vital scene of the first episode. Burnham's decision making, whether you agree or disagree, is rooted in the information in that scene.
Click to expand...

It's more that the producers just wanted to make the (political) point that leftist liberal ideals have no place with foreign policy, as they don't know how the world works. But hey, I expect Star Trek ideals to get shit on in 2017. It's obvious the creators don't believe in the premise of Star Trek for the latest movie series and this might be more of the same.
 
Z

Z3M0G

Member
Red Arremer said:
- Why make the Klingons speak entirely Klingon? So much of the acting is lost by the actors struggling to pronounce this made up guttural language, and so much of the visuals are gone because of the viewer having to read the subtitles. It would have been perfectly fine to leave the introductory scene in Klingon and then have them perform in English afterward.
Click to expand...

Or... you know... the opposite is also possible...
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Correct my if I'm wrong, but while the Vulcans are still part of the Federation, they're not necessarily part of Starfleet at this point, save for Spock? So there's still some separation between them. And I sort of get that Starfleet ideals would probably trump whatever the Vulcans did.
 
R

radios shipping overview

Member
BlackClouds said:
It's more that the producers just wanted to make the (political) point that leftist liberal ideals have no place with foreign policy, as they don't know how the world works. But hey, I expect Star Trek ideals to get shit on in 2017. It's obvious the creators don't believe in the premise of Star Trek for the latest movie series and this might be more of the same.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about this. I think they're trying to explore the line between standing up for your ideals and doing what you think will win a war. DS9 explored the same line. They've opened up a discussion that I think will continue over the course of the season at least.
 
L

Lizzy

Unconfirmed Member
jiji said:
Except when a starship computer system has access to all the knowledge of multiple civilizations at an instant, and when there's presumably at least one tactical officer on board whose job it is to know these things.
Click to expand...

I agree it may have been more efficient for her to look it up via computer, but the reason why she sought out Sarek is solid.
 
D

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
As a Trek fan that grew up with the franchise going so far as to buy all the technical encyclopedias as a kids and memorizing all the specs of every starship, I enjoyed the first two episodes a lot. I know a lot of other Trek fans are upset with the inconsistencies with technology, but I'm really glad the showrunners are not being slaves to lore especially since much of that really amounts to limitations of the budget and technology at the time. There's a balance to be made between perfect continuity like some Trek fans want and not giving a shit at all like the JJ Abrams films.

I can also see why they chose to redesign the Klingons, since this look is pretty much non-threatening at this point:

kCgCVWn.jpg


They have been too humanized after TNG and DS9 to the point where they are practically cuddly. I see why the story they want to tell wouldn't work with that design. That being said, I'm not sure I'm 100% on board with the new ones either as I think they are a bit overdesigned, but I guess I'll reserve judgement until a few more episodes have passed.
 
J

JonnyDBrit

Member
whyamihere said:
Correct my if I'm wrong, but while the Vulcans are still part of the Federation, they're not necessarily part of Starfleet at this point, save for Spock? So there's still some separation between them. And I sort of get that Starfleet ideals would probably trump whatever the Vulcans did.
Click to expand...

Right, but Starfleet would still be the primary defense of the Vulcans, and so Vulcan-Klingon interactions should be outdated vs however the Federation dealt with the Klingons previously. Unless the Federation wasn't adequately defending the ships of a founding member right up until hostilities in general went cold.
 
G

golem

Member
Lizzy said:
I agree it may have been more efficient for her to look it up via computer, but the reason why she sought out Sarek is solid.
Click to expand...
Yeah I think she mostly did it to support the conclusion she had already reached, problem being it was a conclusion she knew was in opposition with the ideals of the Federation (and her captain). Just because Vulcans think something to be the best course does not mean it is Federation doctrine.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
JonnyDBrit said:
Right, but Starfleet would still be the primary defense of the Vulcans, and so Vulcan-Klingon interactions should be outdated vs however the Federation dealt with the Klingons previously. Unless the Federation wasn't adequately defending the ships of a founding member right up until hostilities in general went cold.
Click to expand...

Well it sounds like it was just the Vulcans who interacted with the Klingons in terms of striking first, not Starfleet.

The fact that they have their own exploration force (which Michael references) and their reluctance to join Starfleet always stuck me as sort of the UK's relationship with the EU pre-Brexit. Sure, we're in, but we have some concessions and we're suspicious.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Z3M0G said:
Or... you know... the opposite is also possible...
Click to expand...

Of course, but bad actors are bad actors, however with the Klingons in this, it isn't possible to tell either way.

Being forced to have barely any lines in English and instead a made up language however definitely holds back the capability for acting. It's a lot clearer and lines are delivered with more confidence and emotion when given in the actor's native language(s).

As an example, Christopher Eccleston is definitely not a bad actor by any stretch, yet having maybe one line in English Thor: The Dark World was one of the main contributors to Malekith being considered one of the weakest MCU villains, and the MCU already has a whole slew of poor villains.
 
E

EvilRedEye

Member
I'm wondering if the katra communication sequence with Sarek was a delusion rather than something that actually happened. Blue lens flare appeared just before Michael went nuts and neck-pinched the captain and that entire sequence had a blue filter. Not sure if I'm reading too much into it but I'm definitely going to be looking out for potential blue=PTSD clues in the remaining episodes.
 
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