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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
encephalon
Member
Shouldn't "saga" refer to more than one game?
Food for thought: Ao
Food for thought: Ao
's story wasn't fully resolved in Ao, but it didn't get a direct sequel.
Novel Mike
Member
Details from the pastebin have been slightly off in some places but I'm seeing more pictures now coming out and it does seem confirmed that the ending thats been shown in screen shots is legit and we are getting another game. Good news is that people are speculating it could come out next year in Japan... So yay for that I guess?
Just a general question, that interview that we got translated that said there was a 'big' scene halfway through the game when was that interview actually done? I think its the same interview that had several things that don't seem accurate now such as how much of the game is voiced and what not, just wondering how resent to know if it was mistranslated, something maybe originally planned or if the guy being interviewed was just lying out his ass XD
Just a general question, that interview that we got translated that said there was a 'big' scene halfway through the game when was that interview actually done? I think its the same interview that had several things that don't seem accurate now such as how much of the game is voiced and what not, just wondering how resent to know if it was mistranslated, something maybe originally planned or if the guy being interviewed was just lying out his ass XD
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
So we are getting a 4th game? I could have sworn this one was confirmed to be the last Sen game.
Falcom please. I haven't even played CS2 yet but I'm already ready to move on to Calvard and something not-school.
Falcom please. I haven't even played CS2 yet but I'm already ready to move on to Calvard and something not-school.
To be fair, CS4 will most definitely be not-school.
Novel Mike
Member
Yes 4th game confirmed. Last image literally says: To Be Continued SEN NO KISEKI the last saga.
Rumors and speculation suggest (and take this with a fine grain of salt, no idea how accurate it is by any means) but that while the game was originally planned to be 1 massive game, the group that translates it into Chinese (possibly other languages in that region) was complaining that it was to much text/dialog to actually get done for a single project so they split it up into 2. Everyone I've seen discussing this is assuming that the final game will come out in 2018 and is likely really quite far along.
This speculation would make sense because theres a few things that were stated in interviews that never actually happen that would make sense with the context of another game and the ending of this game. Not going to go into spoiler territory right now though, hopefully some of our resident Japanese speakers can get through the game in the coming week or so and provide more insight.
Also from what I've played I think they really do a good job with the school setting this time around and it really helps the new class 7 is so much smaller then the original so you have more time early on to devote to the various characters.
It helps the field studies right from the outset actually have strong moments instead of CS1 where not much of anything really happens until Chapter 4.
Sen no Kiseki III & Knuckles
Is this game delivering on all the hype built around it?
Right now, the idea of having to wait two years and not getting a conclusion to the Erebonia arc is... well, it's awful.
Nice to know that I'll be 30 by the time I'll see the end of this arc in english.
I should start learning Japanese...
Right now, the idea of having to wait two years and not getting a conclusion to the Erebonia arc is... well, it's awful.
Nice to know that I'll be 30 by the time I'll see the end of this arc in english.
I should start learning Japanese...
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I was apprehensive about the cheesiness at first, but I eventually grew to view it as a feature. The power of strong characterizations.
Palette Swap
Member
On the bright side, this really sounds like a CS1/2 situation so CS4 is probably next year.
TBH, Id rather know in advance that (vague structural spoilers)
.
TBH, Id rather know in advance that (vague structural spoilers)
theres a motherfucker of a cliffhanger
Haven't popped into this thread in the last year because I was on media blackout from the Sen 3 announcement until now.
But yeah, gotta pop in since after Sen 2 I kept saying Sen 3 and 4 is gonna happen because Falcom is cheap and will not make a new game with new locations and not use it twice in this series. Plus Sen 3 had a ton of story it needed to cover since Sen 1+2 didn't cover that much and the Sen games are very slow paced. Yet everyone in this thread and the Sen 2 thread told me I was crazy and Falcom couldn't do more than one more Erebonia game because the fans would riot and stop buying their games and abandon the series in flock, etc....etc...
In the end Sen 3/4 turned out exactly how I figured it was gonna be coming from Sen 1/2 and knowing Falcom's development history with the series. At least this time I went in expecting that, so I'm perfectly content with Sen 3 compared to Sen 1 when I had high expectations and kept waiting for things to happen, and then nothing happened and it was the biggest letdown in the franchise for me.
I'm completely ok with Sen 3/4, possibly because I've given up on the franchise ever getting back to Zero/Ao levels of quality, as long as two things happen:
1) Sen IV better come out next fall. If they take 2 years because "final Erebonia game, so big oh no oh no need more time zzzzz" gonna be unhappy after them taking 3 years for this.
2) Next arc in Calvard they better not pull this 4 slow-paced games spread out over 8 years of development bullshit. Two games, FC/SC, then move to the next country. Ideally I'd love for them to axe all the school shit and relationship events, but I have a feeling that is now here to stay forever, so get ready for Calvard school days. But if they can do that and keep it at 2 games FC/SC I'll live with it.
Btw, I'm enjoying Sen 3 and it's a good game, but man it is so safe and sticking to the formula so far. Even buildings feel copy & pasted from Sen 1/2 with new textures. I hate using the word "lazy" for developers because game development is hard, but 3 years of development for a Sen 1 clone with clone buildings is -_-
But yeah, gotta pop in since after Sen 2 I kept saying Sen 3 and 4 is gonna happen because Falcom is cheap and will not make a new game with new locations and not use it twice in this series. Plus Sen 3 had a ton of story it needed to cover since Sen 1+2 didn't cover that much and the Sen games are very slow paced. Yet everyone in this thread and the Sen 2 thread told me I was crazy and Falcom couldn't do more than one more Erebonia game because the fans would riot and stop buying their games and abandon the series in flock, etc....etc...
In the end Sen 3/4 turned out exactly how I figured it was gonna be coming from Sen 1/2 and knowing Falcom's development history with the series. At least this time I went in expecting that, so I'm perfectly content with Sen 3 compared to Sen 1 when I had high expectations and kept waiting for things to happen, and then nothing happened and it was the biggest letdown in the franchise for me.
I'm completely ok with Sen 3/4, possibly because I've given up on the franchise ever getting back to Zero/Ao levels of quality, as long as two things happen:
1) Sen IV better come out next fall. If they take 2 years because "final Erebonia game, so big oh no oh no need more time zzzzz" gonna be unhappy after them taking 3 years for this.
2) Next arc in Calvard they better not pull this 4 slow-paced games spread out over 8 years of development bullshit. Two games, FC/SC, then move to the next country. Ideally I'd love for them to axe all the school shit and relationship events, but I have a feeling that is now here to stay forever, so get ready for Calvard school days. But if they can do that and keep it at 2 games FC/SC I'll live with it.
Btw, I'm enjoying Sen 3 and it's a good game, but man it is so safe and sticking to the formula so far. Even buildings feel copy & pasted from Sen 1/2 with new textures. I hate using the word "lazy" for developers because game development is hard, but 3 years of development for a Sen 1 clone with clone buildings is -_-
encephalon
Member
If there is a Sen IV, yeah, I would really like to see it come out next year if not early 2019 (is there a reason why every Kiseki game must come out in September?) But with each new title, it feels like Falcom is punching further and further above their weight. We've gone from PS1 to Dreamcast to PS3 in a short amount of time and maybe this comes from a place of ignorance, but it seems like expecting a sequel to come out a year later might be a bit much these days.
At least go back to bracers before doing another school. Something. Anything.
At least go back to bracers before doing another school. Something. Anything.
Yes. While I don't always like some of the characterization, the positive here is that they add personality to the game and make it fun to play/watch. Each character (so far) is quite unique.
So basically, CS III = Avengers: Infinity War, and CS IV = Avengers: Untitled Sequel (formerly Infinity War Part II)? Not too surprised by this, as I already got that vibe from the former with just how massive the cast representing all three arcs is and how things are ramping up with the story.
I wouldn't expect the focus to return to Bracers specifically until Calvard, as the military academy angle is quite central to Cold Steel. I've noticed the mention that CS IV would likely be "not-school", but (CS II spoilers)
.
Settings revolving around school life = money, plus the old and new Class VII do pretty much the same thing as Bracers in respect to helping people with various tasks.
I wouldn't expect the focus to return to Bracers specifically until Calvard, as the military academy angle is quite central to Cold Steel. I've noticed the mention that CS IV would likely be "not-school", but (CS II spoilers)
other than the main and supporting cast of CS II primarily still being students, the Final Chapter ends with everyone back at school as well, so without context for what happened in CS III, I expect the same to happen there
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Personal calvard dreams play as heiyue or resistance/terrorist. I doubt it's going to be school again the boring assumption is rocksmith agency.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I believe Kondo said "the next game will be in Calvard" around the time Cold Steel II was coming out.
Now, we've gone on to have now multiple more games in Erebonia since, but at least the last we heard the plan was to move on to Calvard next, so that's probably what will happen.
Supposedly (emphasis on supposedly) CS3 was split because the Chinese localisers were overwhelmed by how much content CS3 had. Regardless of whether that's true or not, CS3 is dense with content and it's no wonder they split the game in half.
Either I'm happy, but also annoyed. Xseed is going to play catch up for years...
Either I'm happy, but also annoyed. Xseed is going to play catch up for years...
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
It's the standard assumption since 3rd gives a big tip about it. If isn't that or school I'll be surprised.
Yeah, I knew about that, but it still seems a bit unfair.Maybe it has something to do with the Chinese localizations being aided by Sony?
I mean, if they really care about reaching out to the western market (like Kondo said in his recent interviews), surely they would realise that a two years gap between JP and NA is not ideal. Assuming it's going to take that long, obviously.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Assuming Falcom wants to change their script up to the last minute, it's possible they haven't researched how to co-ordinate with non-East Asian localizers before a game's international or slightly delayed launch. Investing in something like that doesn't seem to interest them; without a relationship as tight as that (which Sony does, and they've supplied Chinese/Korean translations so far), XSEED, NISA, Aksys and others won't have access to Falcom scripts pre-launch. I'm just speculating, but this would make sense from a business standpoint.
But as pointed out below (link to source?), there's evidence to the contrary about pre-launch localization for Sen III, so I think Sen II was a rare opportunity for Sony to do that based on Falcom having their script ready to go much quicker.
I have mixed feelings about CS IV, even if it comes out next year. Assuming the game was split for localization convenience, the idea that Falcom might really have succeeded at cramming everything into one game, without extra padding/diversion needed for a sequel, could turn off some fans from supporting CS IV, at least at first. One CS I & II situation's bad enough. This becoming a precedent for reasons outside of Falcom's control must suck. And I really do want the series to move onto Calvard, even if (apparently) CS III's turning a new leaf by fixing all sorts of things wrong in its prequels. This much bloat for one arc really shows how much Falcom's had to adapt and recycle.
But as pointed out below (link to source?), there's evidence to the contrary about pre-launch localization for Sen III, so I think Sen II was a rare opportunity for Sony to do that based on Falcom having their script ready to go much quicker.
Yeah, I get where the school fears are coming from, but Calvard was set up a long whiles back with Rocksmith Agency foreshadowing. That's not to say Falcom won't pull an FC and have the MCs visit an academy at some point. School pandering definitely works and is a safe storytelling option for this genre in Japan.
I have mixed feelings about CS IV, even if it comes out next year. Assuming the game was split for localization convenience, the idea that Falcom might really have succeeded at cramming everything into one game, without extra padding/diversion needed for a sequel, could turn off some fans from supporting CS IV, at least at first. One CS I & II situation's bad enough. This becoming a precedent for reasons outside of Falcom's control must suck. And I really do want the series to move onto Calvard, even if (apparently) CS III's turning a new leaf by fixing all sorts of things wrong in its prequels. This much bloat for one arc really shows how much Falcom's had to adapt and recycle.
Maybe it has something to do with the Chinese localizations being aided by Sony?
The rumor is nonesense. Someone met the head of the translation center at TGS and she said CS3's Chinese localization has not started yet. Also, CS3's promotion cycle clearly lag behind CS1 when aligned. I'm pretty confident it's Falcom themselves running out of time.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Still waiting for my copy but this talk about CS IV makes me uneasy for whatever reason. I guess I was at the opposite point with CS III compared to Bebpo.
I was all ready for this to be the true redemption and if it was indeed split...x_X.
Looking forward to see for myself but right now in my head that makes CS1 and 2 even worse.
Not sure why everyone is coming up with excuses for Falcom, when the simplest answer is that they are a business and need to make money and since Sora FC/SC they've been making one set of assets and then selling two games with it. 3rd is the exception, thiugh the non-dungeon scenes mostly re-used locations from FC/SC. They figured out a business pattern that worked and are sticking to it.
For all we know, at 100-200k sales per game, the games don't sell enough to sustain the series if it was only one game, but at 300-400k they do.
Though you'd think they can afford to fully VA the main story by now, heck Nippon Ichi does it on rpgs that sell 50k or less. Part of me just feels Falcom is a cheapskate when it comes to spending $$ in development.
We should know by the end of the first Calvard game whether it's 2 games or 4, based on whether the entire country is covered, though Calvard is just as big as Erebonia so who knows.
Also a criticism I have of the 4 game cycle, is that fhe FC/CS1 formula of going around fhe country town to town and getting to know each location and cast really only works because each time it's a new country, the culture and towns are all new and different so it feels fresh. Otoh, the first town in Sen3 feels so exactly the same as some of fne Sen1 towns that you almost wonder if you've been there already. It makes sense because it's the same country, but it also loses the whole fresh experience of exploring new unique towns/cities for the first time and learning about their culture.
For all we know, at 100-200k sales per game, the games don't sell enough to sustain the series if it was only one game, but at 300-400k they do.
Though you'd think they can afford to fully VA the main story by now, heck Nippon Ichi does it on rpgs that sell 50k or less. Part of me just feels Falcom is a cheapskate when it comes to spending $$ in development.
We should know by the end of the first Calvard game whether it's 2 games or 4, based on whether the entire country is covered, though Calvard is just as big as Erebonia so who knows.
Also a criticism I have of the 4 game cycle, is that fhe FC/CS1 formula of going around fhe country town to town and getting to know each location and cast really only works because each time it's a new country, the culture and towns are all new and different so it feels fresh. Otoh, the first town in Sen3 feels so exactly the same as some of fne Sen1 towns that you almost wonder if you've been there already. It makes sense because it's the same country, but it also loses the whole fresh experience of exploring new unique towns/cities for the first time and learning about their culture.
Kondo legitimately tried to make into FC/SC one game, but was forced to split it after 3 years of development time only got them up to the end of FC. It's not always about making money. Sometimes you run out of time or money, and you're forced to wrap things up in a hasty manner. Rather than do that, they cut their losses and focused on making a sequel to wrap things up. Also there are a comical amount of lines in this game, so it isn't realistic to expect full voice acting.
Again, excuses. There are fewer voiced lines in the CS/Sen games than many other jrpgs.
Im not talking about every npc line being voiced (though Kadokawa was able to do it no problem with tiny budgets for the Evo games), but Falcom should at least full voice the main story required scenes. Theres no more dialogue in those than your average jrpg that is fully voiced for main scenario since like the ps2 days.
Ill give them that with Sky FC they ran out of time, but at this point why would they ever sell one game when they can sell two? It just doesnt make business sense. If I was Falcom Id be doing the same (but Id spend more money on VA
)One positive though is that since Falcom is very conservative with budgeting these Kiseki games, I'm not worried that one day the sales will tank and the franchise will suddenly end. (more concerned about this for Ys). Pretty sure their games can have a big drop in sales and they'd still be ok.
N1 games sell like 20-40k total copies. I don't even know how they are able to keep their doors open (I think mobile or something). It's understandable that they need to really keep costs down.
N1 games sell like 20-40k total copies. I don't even know how they are able to keep their doors open (I think mobile or something). It's understandable that they need to really keep costs down.
Novel Mike
Member
I just hope we get CS3 in the west before Sen 4 comes out in Japan, and if a 2018 release for Sen 4 is even remotely likely then that might not happen which would put XSEED that much farther behind.
On the bright side, maybe it gives them time to get Crossbell released in the west before Sen 4?
Yeah I think this is what happened. Falcom tried to make CS3 a conclusion, but they were not able to, so they split it into two games. From what I've seen CS3 is pretty darn meaty so I don't mind it.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Keep in mind that Disgaea, at least, sells pretty big numbers in the west (like multiple times what it sells in Japan), so that probably helps them with budgeting it out.
Falcom couldn't definitely afford to voice more of the games than they do, although these games do have a lot more dialogue than many other games.
Novel Mike
Member
I'll believe that were getting those when they announce them and not a moment before XD
I will say this though, I was expecting it to be really important to play Zero and Ao before Sen 3 and the sky games wouldn't be as big of a deal (as they weren't in Cs1/2) but boy was I wrong. The Sky trilogy really is much more important then I was expecting.
Also the more I think about certain pre-release information the more I believe the game was really split into 2. There are several things in various interviews from early and later on that just never happen in the game. Heck I think we had artwork for an entire character that never shows up if I'm not mistaken, not to mention certain events and other minor things all just point to the idea that they would be in this final 4th game unless it was something that was cut or perhaps mistranslated.
Also if you are avoiding spoilers never again go to the Kiseki wikia until after CS3 comes out. I already see mentions of people starting to work on adding Sen 3 info and theres is a crap ton of various spoilers for both old and new characters that you don't want ruined for you.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Outside of working on two games at once they probably won't have time since each game will take at least a year, and Falcom probably isn't going to let them sit on CS4 while they work on Ao.
Maybe the Ao fan translation will be nearly done by that point though.
True. I have a handful of criticisms of Sen 3 already where I'm at, but it's a good game so other than it being kinda budget conscious I'm positive on it. Though again, it's probably because I had low expectations going into it and wasn't expecting the action packed awesome finale of the first half of the Kiseki franhchise.
...hopefully that's Sen 4. Expectations gonna be through the roof for that one, since Erebonia arc ending isn't just the end of Erebonia's story, it's the end of the first half of Kiseki, a mid-franchise ending that pulls everything together that's been built up through 8 games (9 by that point) for an epic finale that could easily be the end of the series (I wouldn't be surprised if there was a time skip after). They better not mess up Sen 4
Novel Mike
Member
I mean realistically it has its own issues as do all of the games but this game is pretty great about stepping up the plot and the various characters and stories that have been going on for a long time, it'll be hard to complain about character development and plot progression thats for sure. It also helps that while it maintains a school structure its handled a lot better for the most part. Because the school is much smaller each and everyone of Thors II is apart of the dorm for example so you can talk to all the various students at night and what not and if you decide to take a bath different characters will join you which gives you link exp.
The field studies also do a much better job of keeping you interested both with C7 characters showing up fairly frequently but also keeping the plot moving forward. I was surprised how many reveals we get in Chapter 1 and it only ramps up from there. You still get the random set of quests to do like the previous games but generally at least one of them reintroduces a student Rean went to Thors with like Vivi, Mint, Allen, ect. So it helps keep those at least somewhat interesting and you can fast travel now as well which really cuts down the tedium of doing these quests quite a bit.
It's certainly the best 'game' of these three games we've gotten so far, even if certain events are going to make people rage hard.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I just wish that they would commit to any individual scene either being voiced or silent. The constant switching back in forth mid-scene is the main thing that bugs me. Not sure if that's any better or not in the new one.
Same.
I'm okay with using voices for only the most important scenes as long as it's consistent across it.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I'm excited for CS2 PC seeing all the characters that never had a voice getting one. Will help a lot of those scenes.
I finished Zero second chapter
Man what a ride, this chapter has to be one of the best of the whole series so far! The reveal at the end hit me totally by surprise, though in hindsight they dropped hints (gender). But man this theater performance was spectacular, I took so many screenshots. I'll take a few weeks off now (played through 3rd and then immediately started Zero), but Zero so far is great.