Professor Beef
Banned
My ancestors were native-american, does this mean I'm free to judge you?
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Hat in Time releases in 2 days, yet JonTron still seems to be in the game
- Thread starter GhostTrick
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My ancestors were native-american, does this mean I'm free to judge you?
instead I'll keep criticizing him on his bullshit as I choose, and recognize that any non-zero amount of it that sticks with anyone is a good thing
lol, merely existing and not buying a video game is violence i guess
balladofwindfishes
Member
I'm not exactly pleased with Humble in all of this, either. They have less of a responsibility, but at least a statement would have been nice.
It's still good for his career as an entertainer. It's the same audience, not to mention all the gaming content he already has out there.
No one reads credits. Word of mouth, when people ask "who is this guy" it's something people will mention to promote him.
Blam
Member
You don't gotta worry about Yooka Laylee they removed his role in the game.
I find it hard to believe that a developer competing in the same market as Yooka-Laylee wasn't following the news around that game at least a little bit. Also, this didn't break in the past week. This stuff all happened early this year. Giving benefit of the doubt is a nice sentiment, but I guess I'm just more jaded than you are
kitchenmotors
Banned
Shocker that the Josh Thomas, the Jon Tron sympathizer, is in favor of this and hates everyone here
And he wonders why Nintendo blacklisted him
Fuck Josh and his Trump supporting ass. Dude needs to make more jerk off videos, hes clearly a jerk off himself.
And a terrible human being, I know someone who was friends with him personally and his FB was lit up with bigoted shit.
I'm a first generation South Asian immigrant, so my ancestors weren't even at the same continent as the "Indians" that they "more than likely" killed.
There's a kind of funny assumption in that post.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
How did he know him, if you don't mind me asking? I hope they're still not friends!
And yeah, josh's entire Twitter is an embarrassment. He has Trump as his profile header.
PrinnyBomb
Member
Please tel me you're joking and do indeed know the definition of "hurting", in ways besides physical violence
I love how mad he gets that Nintendo actively sends GameXplain games and stuff while he gets nothing.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Everyone is white until proven otherwise to some.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
That doesn't make someone a hypocrite.
Someone saying "In an ideal world, we would consume stuff that doesn't support bad dudes doing bad stuff, and I've started to divest from some of this stuff, starting with stuff that it's easier for me to divest from because I have less desire for it to begin with" does not make them a hypocrite.
For example, if someone told you "I think people should try to make environmentally conscious decisions, such as not buying a Hummer" and then you learned that they occasionally flew home for Christmas, they wouldn't be a hypocrite either.
I try to not do business with companies and people who I think are a force for bad in the world. I am not perfect at it. I rarely drive and when I do it is a gas efficient hybrid, but I still need to buy from oil companies who support climate change denial. I try to avoid buying from companies who are strongly involved in regressive politics, but there have been cases where we've ordered Papa Johns pizzas for events or something because there aren't any obvious alternatives that meet our needs. I generally try to avoid creative works by people who make public names for themselves from being odious, but I don't always know that they are and on individual cases I need to make a judgment call about their level of involvement with the work, money they're getting from my consumption, and my baseline desire to see or read or watch the work. I could do more, and I try to always be doing more, but I haven't done everything. I'd like to lower my footprint and I take steps to that end, but I still eat meat. I try to mostly buy used clothing, and support union shops, even though it's not always obvious that "ethical" consumption actually results in aggregate social betterment in the garment industry. I do have a phone and a laptop, but I rarely upgrade if I can help it and do investigate the latest developments in CSR and products offering superior ethical sourcing practices when buying. I do programming for a living and so there's some essential tension between my job, my hobbies, and my desire to lower my footprint.
I mention all of these things because I'm not a "hypocrite" for having some complexities or imperfections in the ways I implement my principles. It's okay to make life changes incrementally, it's okay to make easy choices before you have to make hard ones. "Hypocrisy" is almost always a truly stupid allegation to make against somebody.
I don't castigate others for doing more or less than I do, although I encourage all people to try to make good decisions and really, truly disdain people whose approach to life is "I don't give a shit and I don't owe anyone anything". We're our own arbiters, and I would hope that people who want to reduce the level of badness in the world and absolve themselves from culpability in that badness try to take steps to do so. It does make sense to inform people who you think would benefit from information.
If someone is in a thread arguing "Who gives a shit, I think the alt-right is good and whiny baby SJWs should shut up about it #triggered much libs?", that's a lot different to someone saying "Jontron sucks, but I'm still excited for the game and don't really take these things into account", and that's a lot different to someone saying "This dampens my excitement, but I've ultimately decided to buy the game"
As it relates to the thread in question, I don't think A Hat in Time looks all that great on its own. As a result, I wouldn't be pre-ordering or buying it at launch or anything irrespective of anyone's involvement. It is possible I'd check it out, or just collect it, as it comes down in price or if someone buys me a copy or whatever. I haven't thought it through fully myself, so I don't have a huge position. I empathize that the devs are probably caught between a rock and a hard place: remove Jontron and get review bombed, keep Jontron and get criticized for culpability in his weirdo 4chan politics that he can't shut up about. It's a tough call. I don't blame anyone who considers this a disqualifying factor, I don't blame anyone who considers it not a disqualifying factor.
It would seem to me that Brazil's point in comparing the two and talking through his own decision-making process is reasonable, and that he's not undermining anything, he's speaking to the complexities of how humans make decisions.
OmnipotentO
Member
I already admitted it won't do much by itself in the grand scheme of things. I'm just one voter. Just one voice. Best I can do here is try and convince friends and family.
This is just sad. What's the goal here? What part of "won't inconvenience me" do you not understand? And do you need me to point out the difference between "confirmed racist" and "statistically racist"
Morality isn't a one way angle. Morality of the cannibals living in Borneo isn't inferior to your morality.
I'm just baffled to see those witch hunts internet tends to create. "Don't buy this game because a racist made some voice in it."
This is pure madness. People are dying over everything you acquire but you choose to fight this fight? Pure madness.
purseowner
Member
I wish we could patch JonTron out of the real world.
BottleFlip
Banned
Any other OT title than this would be dishonest, and frankly suspect.
No one is forcing you not to buy this game, no matter how desperate you are to be oppressed and censored.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Doesn't this speak to the fact that electronics, food, clothing, and cars are a lot more central to someone's life and without ready substitutes, versus a single video game that is at most throwaway entertainment and has thousands of direct substitutes?
Isn't it possible that the people you're talking about are not the ones blowing things out of proportion?
Glass Shark
Banned
I guess the big question for me (and this might have already been answered) is whether or not he gets any kind of compensation based on copies sold. If not, it makes me feel slightly better about it. But still not great.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Edit: not worth a post.
I don't think it's that hard to believe that they are in crunch since march.
It's hard to believe that they didn't about this, yes, but maybe they are so full of stuff to do that it didn't cross their mind to release a statemente. I could be wrong, mind you, it's just that i prefer to give developers on the end tail of development some room of doubt since there is a LOT of things to do. I don't think they meant any ill (or meant to hide, either), but yeah, they could be piece of shits for all i know. Just hoping that is not the case. The game is so innocent and charming that i find hard to believe that these guys are those kinds of people.
Giftofgab24
Member
They might put out a statement condemning his actions while saying they don't reflect the thoughts of the company. They could pledge to never work with that person again. They could donate to a charity. There's a myriad of ways they can go about it.
These devs haven't released a statement regarding it at all. They could issue a statement saying that his views are his alone as the bare minimum and they haven't done that have they?
Disappointing but if that's the case then I am not buying the game I do not feel comfortable playing a game with a racist voicing the character.
Shame really as I was looking forward to playing the game.
You may be able to bury your head in the sand and ignore the issue but I can not and will not.
As it stand to me, it feels that either the developers agrees with Jontron's view or they are too much of a coward to remove it and fear the backlash that Yooka-Layee got when Playtonic did it, despite the fact that it eventually died down.
Shame really as I was looking forward to playing the game.
You may be able to bury your head in the sand and ignore the issue but I can not and will not.
As it stand to me, it feels that either the developers agrees with Jontron's view or they are too much of a coward to remove it and fear the backlash that Yooka-Layee got when Playtonic did it, despite the fact that it eventually died down.
Good and bad are cultural things. In nature, there isn't good or bad. That's why we have laws to judge good and bad.
Judge with the law, only the law. Judge me with it if you can.
Maybe it's not my law.
ScaryShark
Banned
It isn't 'pure madness' to not buy a video game because it features a racist in it.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Not buying a video game is easier than not wearing shoes or having a phone.
I'd have to give up my job if I gave up my phone. That's not really comparable to not buying a video game, I was only kind of interested in before.
Again, not buying a given thing is the default state of being. To paint it the other way, to portray buying a video game as a moral imperative, is absurd.
kitchenmotors
Banned
No, theyre not friends anymore. Josh did move out to Illinois and lives very close to me. Surprised I havent seen him around.
Oh man, we're on the "it isn't legal therefore it's moral" thing now. Where do you think laws come from in the first place? Our morals precede their creation.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
My condolences
I haven't been following the game, but it did actually look pretty fun when I saw the dev's twitter linked. I hope they put out a statement too, but I don't envy the position they're in, and my default assumption isn't that they're approving of JonTron's racism just by not commenting on it.
That's a little, uhhhhh
That's a little, uhhhhh
Oh please. That was totally metaphoric. And funny assumption, on purpose.
I'm just taking all of you in the mud you don't see you live in.
Considering the creator of the game is openly Anti-Trump, the chances of them agreeing with JonTron is extremely low.Disappointing but if that's the case then I am not buying the game I do not feel comfortable playing a game with a racist voicing the character.
Shame really as I was looking forward to playing the game.
You may be able to bury your head in the sand and ignore the issue but I can not and will not.
As it stand to me, it feels that either the developers agrees with Jontron's view or they are too much of a coward to remove it and fear the backlash that Yooka-Layee got when Playtonic did it, despite the fact that it eventually died down.
CannonFodder52
Member
I don't think it's that hard to believe that they are in crunch since march.
I could be wrong, mind you, it's just that i prefer to give developers on the end tail of development some room of doubt since there is a LOT of things to do. I don't think they meant any ill (or meant to hide, either), but yeah, they could be piece of shits for all i know. Just hoping that is not the case. The game is so innocent and charming that i find hard to believe that these guys are those kinds of people.
That's fair.
I do want to believe you're right. It'd be awesome if they came out and actually said they didn't know anything about what had transpired, and that they'd remove the dude from the game.
PrinnyBomb
Member
That's not the point I'm making, it's that I'm talking about people hurting a company by not buying the game, and you yell "people not buying a game they were planning to due to this is violence? Lol?" When I made no mention of violence.
Nice edit to your post, by the way.
Most people probably wouldn't have even known he was in this without this thread.....
The creator of A Hat in Time? this is valuable information to me if so.
purseowner
Member
Source please?
Wow bro, what a visionary. Cleanse us Alej, show us.
Death Penalty
Member
Morality and the law are two very different things, and people ignoring the former to serve the latter is actual madness, a term you've been throwing around.
Is this a wrestling promo you're cutting now?
Ah, had no idea. That's disappointing... But thanks to the devs for helping me save money!
All the more reason he should be removed.
All the more reason he should be removed.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
How did you pivot from "There are more important wrongs in the world, how are you arguing about this stuff" to "No one can tell me what's right or wrong" in less than a page?
Mel Gibson was banished from Hollywood for a decade for his anti sematic remarks.
Yet in video games you can want to cleanse the ethnic gene pool and tell millions of children know it's okay to make anti sematic jokes and call people the n word, and people will actually defend you. Even better, if you protest those people, you're somehow the bad guy.
Christ.
Yet in video games you can want to cleanse the ethnic gene pool and tell millions of children know it's okay to make anti sematic jokes and call people the n word, and people will actually defend you. Even better, if you protest those people, you're somehow the bad guy.
Christ.
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