Support NeoGAF

[Window]

The ink spots?

https://postapocalypticcities.wordpress.com/2014/06/30/the-ink-spots-in-dystopian-futures/

 

[Surfinn]

I actually thought the score was pretty good. This is right after seeing them back to back in the double feature. The score in the first film is clearly better, but 2049's is a lot more subtle and not as traditional.

One thing I do wish though, is that they'd turn the fucking volume down in some areas. Sometimes the score would like erupt my eardrums out of nowhere.

This adds nothing to the film whatsoever. I really hope Dunkirk isn't going to popularize the whole "louder is better" gimmick.

 

[Window]

Nonsense. The original didn't dwell on Leon or Pris's deaths

Leon's death follows shortly after Zhora's and he is visibly upset by the whole thing. It's not a very cold scene. As for Pris, erm are you serious? She spazzes out on the floor for a good 30s.

 

[JB1981]

Leon's death follows shortly after Zhora's and he is visibly upset by the whole thing. It's not a very cold scene. As for Pris, erm are you serious? She spazzes out on the floor for a good 30s.

Ok and Luv's death was just as violent and grizzly? I don't see how Priss's death was materially different or more meaningful

 

[Window]

Also, not sure what was such a "gimmick" about her. She plays an important role throughout the film as the person who birthed a natural born replicant, and then comes in as a way to tempt Deckard. The temptation is so strong that he has to lie to reject it ("she had green eyes"), and look away from her being killed.

What's not ambiguous in that scene is that she is a fake, and we know it. You could decide then whether or not you think her life means anything. Wallace doesn't so he quickly disposes her. Deckard can't watch, but the audience is forced to.

I'm not calling Rachel's character a gimmick, but rather the trick of her revival which is meant to shock Deckard (and the audience). She doesn't do much else. Also, what do you mean by she was a fake? She was a replicant made to mimic Rachel. She's no more fake than K.

 

[Window]

Ok and Luv's death was just as violent and grizzly? I don't see how Priss's death was materially different or more meaningful

I don't think I suggested otherwise in my post. In fact I mention that this film does the same by lingering on replicant deaths and Luv's death is the scene which struck me when I was thinking of this. I was just surprised that in contrast to all of this nu-Rachel is brushed aside so quickly.

 

[JB1981]

I don't think I suggested otherwise in my post. In fact I mention that this film does the same by lingering on replicant deaths and Luv's death is the scene which struck me when I was thinking of this. I was just surprised that in contrast to all of this nu-Rachel is brushed aside so quickly.

I misread what you typed. My bad

 

[Flipyap]

The whole point is that a "toy" exhibits a degree of humanity that you start to believe she is not one. You empathize with her, with K and their romance. That's what makes the scenes after Joi's death even more of a gut punch when you see that yes, she was just designed to adapt to K's desires. K (and audience) realizes that she was just a sophisticated set of algorithms.

I get that, but when no real (bioengineered or otherwise) person is treated with anything close to same care and attention, it becomes really hard to care about any of them.
Might as well watch a holo-puppet theater.

That's the fundamental question at the core of the entire film. Do/can replicants have souls? K thinks you have to be natural born to have one. The other replicants think it's more about how you feel and act, dying for something of your own choosing, aka free will. They don't prescribe one's ability to have a soul to being natural born -- all the natural born replicant shows is that they can not only be human but also rise above them.

Also, not sure what was such a "gimmick" about her. She plays an important role throughout the film as the person who birthed a natural born replicant, and then comes in as a way to tempt Deckard. The temptation is so strong that he has to lie to reject it ("she had green eyes"), and look away from her being killed.

That question was answered before the movie began. I don't know why anyone would care about the characters' definition of "soul," their humanity is not up to debate.

She's treated like a prop, not a character. Hence, gimmick.

I thought it was brilliant. The most human characters were both artificial.

Artificially grown isn't the same thing as fake. Only one of them can actually experience emotions, while the other only ever does what her owner wants to see.

 

[Tacitus_]

I don't think I suggested otherwise in my post. In fact I mention that this film does the same by lingering on replicant deaths and Luv's death is the scene which struck me when I was thinking of this. I was just surprised that in contrast to all of this nu-Rachel is brushed aside so quickly.

I think the contrast is the point. She would've been made just moments before and when she didn't deliver, was casually disposed of, like you'd toss away a useless tool. Which she was.

Artificially grown isn't the same thing as fake. Only one of them can actually experience emotions, while the other only ever does what her owner wants to see.

They're both artificial. Just because one has a silicon brain instead flesh and blood doesn't make them different

Spoiler

or does it?

. Luv even mentions how they adjust personalities and intellect so they fit their intended job better.

 

[v0yce]

Artificially grown isn't the same thing as fake. Only one of them can actually experience emotions, while the other only ever does what her owner wants to see.

Which, even if this is your read, still reflects on the owner. That his desires are very "human."

 

[Window]

As a total aside, so I noitced K's apartment has similar tiles to Deckard's. Villeneuve also chose to have the water shimmering lighting for Wallace's HQ (which by the way was so ridiculous lol) as Ridely did with Tyrell's.

I think the contrast is the point. She would've been made just moments before and when she didn't deliver, was casually disposed of, like you'd toss away a useless tool. Which she was.

She's disposable to Wallace but much like K and Luv, she's a replicant and her death should be no different than theirs (as in she's a being with some (twisted) sense of personhood dying). I get that it shows how ruthless Wallace/Luv are but to me it feels like a slightly cheap way to establish their villainy.

I think Joi's true nature is ambiguous much like Samantha in Her. K (and Luv) broke their programming (to obey) so there does exist the possibility that Joi's evolution is distinct from her designed path. However in Her

Spoiler

we get to see Sam exercise agency to do something completely different than her intended design but there's no such obvious case here.

 

[Surfinn]

I totally thought K was gunna be Deckards.. which may have been an obvious prediction to others but I was not expecting. There were a few shots from behind where K looked exactly like Deckard from the original, which was probably purposeful

 

[KraftyKrankins]

I actually thought the score was pretty good. This is right after seeing them back to back in the double feature. The score in the first film is clearly better, but 2049's is a lot more subtle and not as traditional.

One thing I do wish though, is that they'd turn the fucking volume down in some areas. Sometimes the score would like erupt my eardrums out of nowhere.

This adds nothing to the film whatsoever. I really hope Dunkirk isn't going to popularize the whole "louder is better" gimmick.

It's not, to me at least. Half the songs sound like a few random Vangelis notes jumbled in together, the other like a Skrillex beat drop. And the bolded is exactly how I feel about the soundtrack as a whole. It's good enough to fill in at some moments but it fails remarkably to enhance the emotional moments in the movie. I'd have accepted it as the OST to a BR videogame done by a up and coming composer, not for such a big movie. Especially so when you compare it to the original's score.

 

[v0yce]

Villeneuve also chose to have the water shimmering lighting for Wallace's HQ (which by the way was so ridiculous lol) as Ridely did with Tyrell's.

Why is this ridiculous?

 

[Surfinn]

It's not, to me at least. Half the songs sound like a few random Vangelis notes jumbled in together, the other like a Skrillex beat drop. And the bolded is exactly how I feel about the soundtrack as a whole. It's good enough to fill in at some moments but it fails remarkably to enhance the emotional moments in the movie. I'd have accepted it as the OST to a BR videogame done by a up and coming composer, not for such a big movie. Especially so when you compare it to the original's score.

The original has a beautiful score. And yeah, I can understand why a lot of people might feel that way.

 

[zelas]

Instead, K died fighting for what he wanted, his mission, to unite Deckard with his daughter. It was a brilliant twist and character moment, and it made the fight in the submerged vehicle much more impactful, because I did not know if K wanted to kill Deckard or save him.

If he had any intent on killing him he would have blown up the car he was in like the others.

What movie can you think of that already did the concept of love between a household AI and an android, and makes you feel just as distraught at their loss as though it were two human characters.

Do we really understand what happened here between K and Joi? How Joi who is another dimension of an artificial intelligence? It's like a human and android falling in love, except deeper. This movie abstracts the concept of love and romance and peels it one more layer.

The interactions of K and Joi aren't going to carry 2049 in its entirety to the same level of influence that almost everything in Blade Runner did. The concepts of falling in love with an AI or an AI desiring to be/thinking its real has been done several times over. Replacing the human dynamic with an android doesn't change things that much.

In fact I'd argue that the human-AI dynamic (Rachel and Decker for example) offers more depth than the android-AI dynamic which removes elements to double down on the same thoughts. Androids and AIs basically fill the same role. Humans would ask the same question about either artificial creation and either artificial creation would ask the same questions about themselves. I think the fact that the movie constantly illustrates the parallels between K and Joi backs that up.

Do you think an android and AI falling in love presents a new layer because they share a foundation of being an artificial creation?

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

Worthy sequel to the original but it didn't blow me away in terms of plot or pacing.

Would definitely recommend it to fans of the first or people that love lush cinematography.

Also, I agree that score was WAY TOO fucking loud. Like...MAN.

 

[Surfinn]

Question

Is there a chance K is alive, for a sequel?

 

[black070]

Question

Is there a chance K is alive, for a sequel?

Its possible I suppose, but I really don't want a sequel.

 

[Flipyap]

They're both artificial. Just because one has a silicon brain instead flesh and blood doesn't make them different

Spoiler

or does it?

. Luv even mentions how they adjust personalities and intellect so they fit their intended job better.

The big dumb advertisement suggests otherwise (and sapient AIs really don't belong in this setting).
I mean... they're brainwashed, naturally their personalities would have to originate from some template.

Which, even if this is your read, still reflects on the owner. That his desires are very "human."

Well, yeah, because that's what K is. His mirror... not so much.

 

[kraspkibble]

just home from seeing it. not quite sure about the story but to be fair i did only watch the original yesterday. still really enjoyed it though. probably need to watch it again a few times.

 

[tonysidaway]

As a total aside, so I noitced K's apartment has similar tiles to Deckard's. Villeneuve also chose to have the water shimmering lighting for Wallace's HQ (which by the way was so ridiculous lol) as Ridely did with Tyrell's.

Sometimes you have to go hunting for easter eggs, and sometimes you have to duck to avoid a shower of pancake batter. I loved it, anyway. The exterior shot showing Wallace's high rise towering over Tyrell's ziggurat spoke loudly of Wallace's megalomania.

 

[Window]

Why is this ridiculous?

I don't the shimmering light is ridiculous (its kinda great in the scene with Ford), but the layout and decor of Wallace's HQ certainly was.

 

[Surfinn]

Its possible I suppose, but I really don't want a sequel.

Seems like there's too much untold story not to do one honestly.

 

[Get'sMad]

Its possible I suppose, but I really don't want a sequel.

yeah me either but I'm also someone who didn't want this move to happen at all (even though I'm really delighted how well it turned out and the fact I really liked it when I thought I would hate it). I think I read that they're were planning multiple sequels after this but that is going to be especially unlikely if this tanks.

 

[jack_package_200]

Be honest, how many of you would buy your own Joi?

I

Spoiler

probably would >.<

 

[KraftyKrankins]

Something else I just remembered. The transition from the fire sparks to skyscraper lights and then the switch to a more muted color palate with the cars coming in the frame near the end of the movie was one of the best I've ever seen in cinema as a whole.

 

[Mirand]

Who else got fucked up by the drone strike scene in the junkyard?

 

[Surfinn]

Who else got fucked up by the drone strike scene in the junkyard?

That was brutal and a lot more intense than I was expecting

 

[Window]

Something else I just remembered. The transition from the fire sparks to skyscraper lights and then the switch to a more muted color palate with the cars coming in the frame near the end of the movie was one of the best I've ever seen in cinema as a whole.

Yeah that was an amazing transition.

 

[Tacitus_]

Be honest, how many of you would buy your own Joi?

I

Spoiler

probably would >.<

I'd ruin my life with one >_>

 

[jack_package_200]

The Baseline Test was a wonderfully strange and science fictiony part of the movie.

CELLS

 

[Chained Prometheus]

The Baseline Test was a wonderfully strange and science fictiony part of the movie.

CELLS

Yeah, I loved those bits, especially the sound design. It was all so damn intense.

INTERLINKED

 

[jett]

The Baseline Test was a wonderfully strange and science fictiony part of the movie.

CELLS

One of my favorite scenes in the movie.

 

[Surfinn]

"I hope you enjoyed the product" (I think was the line)

One of the best moments in the film for me.

It was just hilariously dark and brutal.

 

[El Topo]

"I hope you enjoyed the product" (I think was the line)

One of the best moments in the film for me.

It was just hilariously dark and brutal.

She even mentions it in their first encounter, presumably do deliberately taunt him. Something along the lines of "I see you have purchased one of our products. Do you enjoy it?".

 

[KraftyKrankins]

She even mentions it in their first encounter, presumably do deliberately taunt him. Something along the lines of "I see you have purchased one of our products. Do you enjoy it?".

Yupp. The callback to that moment was so good.

 

[JB1981]

One of my favorite scenes in the movie.

Yep for sure

 

[Surfinn]

She even mentions it in their first encounter, presumably do deliberately taunt him. Something along the lines of "I see you have purchased one of our products. Do you enjoy it?".

Oh yeah that's right.

 

[BronsonLee]

Joi was real Surfinn you bastard

I'll never forgive your lies

 

[JB1981]

In the scene where Robin Wright's character suspends K does she know at that point that the boy is him?

 

[Surfinn]

Joi was real Surfinn you bastard

I'll never forgive your lies

:'(

That was some "She" levels of heartbreak man.

I really felt for him

 

[jack_package_200]

:'(

That was some "She" levels of heartbreak man.

I really felt for him

You did that on purpose.

 

[oneida]

Rutger Hauer couldn't get more life so he gave Deckard more life (by not killing him lol)
K could not experience a true human moment so he gave Deckard one by reuniting him with his daughter.

 

[Chained Prometheus]

"I hope you enjoyed the product" (I think was the line)

One of the best moments in the film for me.

It was just hilariously dark and brutal.

It was "I hope you've enjoyed our product."

But yeah, definitely one of my favorite moments in the film. Luv is such a goddamn asshole.

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

Surely I wasn't the only one who thought of The Dark Knight Rises when we find out the child in the memory is a girl.

 

[EBE]

Rutger Hauer couldn't get more life so he gave Deckard more life (by not killing him lol)
K could not experience a true human moment so he gave Deckard one by reuniting him with his daughter.

It's like poetry

 

[tonysidaway]

Question

Is there a chance K is alive, for a sequel?

In a risk-averse film market, all expensive films come franchise-ready. Ryan Gosling's performance was good and he emerges as a character the audience can readily identify with. The same is true of Ana de Armas, even though her character dies in a sense. The audience loves the relationship between Joe and Joi (though I've been giving it a much harsher analysis here).

Joe doesn't actually die in the film, and both Rick and his newly discovered daughter are nearby. Dr Ana probably can't come out of her bubble but she must have human or android staff even if Rick himself can't help him.

Joe attempted to wipe all traces of Joi from the apartment system, and the emanator is presumed lost or destroyed. But there is enough wriggle room to recover or reinvent her character if a future production desires it.

 

[BronsonLee]

:'(

That was some "She" levels of heartbreak man.

I really felt for him

Joi was just tryin' to help man

(I'm of the opinion that while she's programmed to say what he wants to hear, she went against him many times like with calling the hooker over and risking herself by getting put in the emanator)

Joe and Joi are the GOAT, Deckard is a wuss and I hope his Bubble Boy daughter ignores him and his alcoholic dog

 

[Window]

In the scene where Robin Wright's character suspends K does she know at that point that the boy is him?

I don't think she did. She genuinely believes him. She does this against her better judgement despite K failing his base line test which perhaps indicates (along with earlier scenes) that she had deeper feelings for him (as a friend or otherwise).

I kind of hated how Luv performs two assassinations in the police station with no ramifications. There's apparently no surveillance cameras in 2049.