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[Cmerrill]

If you're hitting your kids, you're parenting wrong. In my opinion you're POS if you do.

No child deserves to be hit, and you're most likely hitting them out of anger and not the need to teach them anything.

I can't imagine hitting my son, I would die inside seeing him cry from physical pain that I caused him.

 

[cHaotix8]

This thread is the shitstorm I imagined it would be. Nothing wrong with a few smacks on the behind to get the attention of a kid that wouldn't understand otherwise.

 

[Grug]

This thread is the shitstorm I imagined it would be. Nothing wrong with a few smacks on the behind to get the attention of a kid that wouldn't understand otherwise.

Doesn't the thread title specifically refer to physical punishment? We seem to be getting away from that with some people trying to semantically find the line where it becomes a tap on the bottom to get a child's attention.

I can't imagine hitting my son, I would die inside seeing him cry from physical pain that I caused him.

Especially when basically all childhood misbehaviour is a result of being tired, hungry, hurt, under/overstimulated or simply being unaware of of how they have transgressed.

All situations that can either be managed by controlling the environment, redirecting, being empathetic or identifying the learning opportunity. Hitting is just not a proportionate or logical response to these factors.

They're unfinished products learning how to be humans. They're not done yet. They need to be shown how.

 

[LordKasual]

If they have the same stupid-ass opinions as the guys saying "Punching a kid in the face and smacking them on the bottom = totally the same" then yes.

In that they are both abuse, yes.

This is what happens when you choose to adopt a definition so broad and rigid that it just becomes completely worthless

 

[Meowster]

Your parents should be in jail for life if you didn't know it already, just FYI. I learned that in here today.

They're the same as parents who poison their kids with lead or anti-vaxxers.



I have a degree in Sociology and a minor in Psych.

Sometimes physical punishment is necessary.

Did that burst your bubble?

Jail is a bit much for a spanking lol. Oh I definitely wouldn't be able to do it to my own child because I kinda do think it was unnecessary on my parents part since that rarely ever happened and we were well behaved kids. Like, I might have been spanked three or four times in my life. But I do know the difference of a quick swat on the butt (that is more shocking, if anything, than any actual pain) versus a belt/paddle/etc too. Actually had friends who were beat hard in elementary school and it is very sad to see how much that still emotionally effects them to this day.

 

[RDreamer]

This thread is the shitstorm I imagined it would be. Nothing wrong with a few smacks on the behind to get the attention of a kid that wouldn't understand otherwise.

Hurting your child to get their attention teaches a very bad lesson to them. Children imitate you and your behavior. If they don't understand otherwise, what makes you think they'll understand anything more than that you're violent and you get violent when you want attention and that somehow that's what other humans should do?

 

[cwmartin]

"how dare you judge ME for what I do to my children?!"

This thread has hit meta levels of absolute insanity.

Yes, I am going to judge you for doing something I believe (and the majority of the world) believes to be morally wrong. If you can live with yourself knowing that, nobody gives a fuck.

 

[Always-honest]

what are you even on

we're talking about raising children, not BDSM

Nah, abusive loud dumb parents.
Waaaaay louder and scary than people who like BDSM.

 

[ApharmdX]

Shit brother it's not even just POC. I already linked it in this thread but, even as a white lady you could end up dead (or at minimum your dog): http://filmingcops.com/cop-shoots-i...-pet-dog-receives-paid-leave-with-no-charges/

This is a domestic incident, but the point is (and we should all already know) that anytime a cop shows up at your house you are in a statistically significant position of being murdered or losing a loved one or pet.

But none of that matters when e-warriors gotta rage over a smack on the bottom.

Wow, that story, what a tragedy, and these aren't isolated incidents, either. I read that poster's advice, and then re-read it because I was so incredulous. Better to call the cops on your child rather than discipline them yourself? Ugh.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

"how dare you judge ME for what I do to my children?!"

This thread has hit meta levels of absolute insanity.

Yes, I am going to judge you for doing something I believe (and the majority of the world) believes to be morally wrong. If you can live with yourself knowing that, nobody gives a fuck.

I really don't believe the majority of the world thinks a parent giving a swat to the butt is morally wrong. But now we're both just guessing.

 

[Marlenus]

Here's a true story. At the age of five I was in a class and we were all asked to pick up our chairs and move them to an adjacent room. I was a bit surprised to hear the teacher say "put the chairs on your heads." But I did so because she was in charge. Immediately I was told off for doing such a stupid thing. This puzzled me at the time.

In later life I have conjectured that I'd misheard her. Perhaps she had said "Don't put the chairs on your heads", with a pause for emphasis after "don't".

Instructing younger children is hard.

I think a class is a bit of a different scenario due to the number of kids. Of course If she had just stuck with the initial instruction and perhaps done 'name' don't do xyz if any of the kids were being dumb then it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Doesn't the thread title specifically refer to physical punishment? We seem to be getting away from that with some people trying to semantically find the line where it becomes a tap on the bottom to get a child's attention.

I think the semantics are important because a lot of the replies in this thread to the effect of "I would never hit my kids" leave it somewhat ambigious as to whether they are talking about a spanking (still legal, and not abuse according to children's aid) or a punch to the face causing injury (very illegal and defined as abuse according to children's aid)

 

[kewlmyc]

Honestly, I don't think there's a real answer to this question after reading through this thread. Some of the alternatives being presented in this thread sound way worse than a spanking, like locking them in a time out room or ignoring they exist. That's some psychological shit right there. There's no real concrete answer on how to discipline children.

 

[cwmartin]

I really don't believe the majority of the world thinks a parent giving a swat to the butt is morally wrong. But now we're both just guessing.

That's fair, and I don't. I still think its bonkers bad parents care so much when other people judge them by their actions. As if they are invincible from criticism.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

This is currently going on in Scotland just now:

Smacking to be banned in Scotland

Smacking children is to be banned in Scotland, the Scottish government has confirmed.
The move would make the country the first part of the UK to outlaw the physical punishment of children.
Ministers had previously said they did not support parents using physical chastisement, but had "no plans" to bring forward legislation of their own.
But the government has now confirmed it will ensure a bill lodged by Green MSP John Finnie will become law.
And it is understood that ministers will work with Mr Finnie to implement the bill in practice.
His proposals, which were out for consultation over the summer, would give children the same legal protection as adults.
At present, parents in Scotland can claim a defence of "justifiable assault" when punishing their child - although the use of an "implement" in any punishment is banned, as is shaking or striking a child on the head.
'Equal protection'
There are no bans on smacking in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, where parents are currently allowed to use "reasonable chastisement".
However, they can face criminal charges if they hit a child so hard that it leaves a mark, or causes bruising, swelling, cuts, grazes or scratches, and the Welsh government is to consult on an outright ban.
Mr Finnie, a former policeman, tabled a members' bill at Holyrood calling for the "justifiable assault" defence to be scrapped and for children to be given "equal protection from assault".
The Green MSP said Scotland "cannot be thought of as the best place in the world for children to grow up while our law gives children less protection from assault than anybody else in society".

More at the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41678797

Sometimes I'm proud of my wee country, only sometimes mind you.

 

[Rabid Dwarf 76]

"how dare you judge ME for what I do to my children?!"

This thread has hit meta levels of absolute insanity.

Yes, I am going to judge you for doing something I believe (and the majority of the world) believes to be morally wrong. If you can live with yourself knowing that, nobody gives a fuck.

Edit: You already answered my question.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

Hurting your child to get their attention teaches a very bad lesson to them. Children imitate you and your behavior. If they don't understand otherwise, what makes you think they'll understand anything more than that you're violent and you get violent when you want attention and that somehow that's what other humans should do?

Honestly,if my kids grow up to smack someone lightly on the butt for doing something they think is bad and it ended there as it's the only example of violence I've ever shown them, I could probably live with that.

 

[tonysidaway]

When your neighbors are assholes that call the cops on you if your kid screams for more than 5 minutes, and the only way to snap them out of a temper tantrum is a smack on the bottom, then you do it.

You wanna judge people for that? L o l.

Yes, I most certainly do. If you hit a child because you don't like what the neighbours will say, I think your priorities in child-rearing may need some careful and thoughtful revision.

 

[Grug]

I think the semantics are important because a lot of the replies in this thread to the effect of "I would never hit my kids" leave it somewhat ambigious as to whether they are talking about a spanking (still legal, and not abuse according to children's aid) or a punch to the face causing injury (very illegal and defined as abuse according to children's aid)

I think a helpful working definition for "physical punishment" in the context of this thread would be "intentionally inflicting physical pain as a disciplinary method".

Works for me. IMO, if the intention is pain, I'm comfortable calling it abuse.

People talking about "light smacks on the bottom" (whether for or against) are clouding the issue and dragging the thread into arguments over an inch of grass.

 

[PdotMichael]

I'm the only one who thinks the got beaten but I deserved it comments are quite disturbing?

 

[F34R]

Here's a nice read:
https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/growth-curve/debate-over-spanking-short-science-high-emotion

 

[RDreamer]

Honestly,if my kids grow up to smack someone lightly on the butt for doing something they think is bad and it ended there as it's the only example of violence I've ever shown them, I could probably live with that.

I like that the original example said you had to smack them a few times, which to me denotes you're doing it hard enough to inflict pain or that a light tap isn't enough to gain attention. More swings are needed.

Now the lesson you think the child is getting is that lightly tapping is enough. If a light tapping is enough, then... how about lightly tapping them on the shoulder or something?

But realistically, I think teaching your children to touch people when they have not authorized it nor want it, possibly to the point of pain, in order to get attention is a pretty fucking bad lesson.

I'm the only one who thinks the got beaten but I deserved it comments are quite disturbing?

Realistically they're victims. It's biased reporting. Victims justify their own abuse in almost every case I can think of. Stockholm syndrome in a way. Those receiving domestic violence do it all the time.

 

[Noboru Wataya]

Here's a nice read:
https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/growth-curve/debate-over-spanking-short-science-high-emotion

Still, prominent child abuse cases like Peterson’s highlight an insidious aspect of spanking: Sometimes, hitting a child in the name of discipline morphs into something far worse. It’s not hard to imagine an angry parent quickly losing control and crossing a line. And that’s not discipline—it’s abuse.


A point quite a few people in here have been trying to make. Discipline ≠ Abuse.

 

[ApharmdX]

Posting for context:

-Spanking remains extremely popular here in America. In a 2013 poll, 81% of respondents said that it is sometimes appropriate to spank children.
-Spanking is legal in all 50 states and Washington, DC.
-90% of the world's children live in countries where corporal punishment is legal.

Spanking here in the US and most of the world is going nowhere soon. It's popular and has deep roots in American society.

That said, we need to do a better job here in the US of identifying actual physical abuse, and removing children from the home where abuse is occurring. There is a sickening amount of real abuse that goes on, still, and social services is often either slow or powerless to act. Focusing on this would be a better use of resources, IMO, than trying to ban spanking altogether.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

I like that the original example said you had to smack them a few times, which to me denotes you're doing it hard enough to inflict pain or that a light tap isn't enough to gain attention. More swings are needed.

Now the lesson you think the child is getting is that lightly tapping is enough. If a light tapping is enough, then... how about lightly tapping them on the shoulder or something?

But realistically, I think teaching your children to touch people when they have not authorized it nor want it, possibly to the point of pain, in order to get attention is a pretty fucking bad lesson.

I admit, my children will likely grow up to be Nazi punchers.

 

[RDreamer]

I admit, my children will likely grow up to be Nazi punchers.

I guess if your 3 year old is advocating the genocide of an entire race then maybe you should hit them. Definitely.

 

[Messofanego]

Honestly, I don't think there's a real answer to this question after reading through this thread. Some of the alternatives being presented in this thread sound way worse than a spanking, like locking them in a time out room or ignoring they exist. That's some psychological shit right there. There's no real concrete answer on how to discipline children.

How is ignoring worse than physical punishment and how doesn't physical punishment count as "psychological shit"?

 

[TheRagnCajun]

I think a helpful working definition for "physical punishment" in the context of this thread would be "intentionally inflicting physical pain as a disciplinary method".

Works for me. IMO, if the intention is pain, I'm comfortable calling it abuse.

People talking about "light smacks on the bottom" (whether for or against) are clouding the issue and dragging the thread into arguments over an inch of grass.

It would work if we stuck to that term and definition but by the same token a lot of people are choosing the more specific term of 'hitting'. People feel the need to make distinctions in this discussion and the law sees it the same way too.

 

[F34R]

Still, prominent child abuse cases like Peterson’s highlight an insidious aspect of spanking: Sometimes, hitting a child in the name of discipline morphs into something far worse. It’s not hard to imagine an angry parent quickly losing control and crossing a line. And that’s not discipline—it’s abuse.


A point quite a few people in here have been trying to make. Discipline ≠ Abuse.

It's a legitimate point. There's a line that is crossed and discipline becomes abuse.

Posting for context:

-Spanking remains extremely popular here in America. In a 2013 poll, 81% of respondents said that it is sometimes appropriate to spank children.
-Spanking is legal in all 50 states and Washington, DC.
-90% of the world's children live in countries where corporal punishment is legal.

Spanking here in the US and most of the world is going nowhere soon. It's popular and has deep roots in American society.

That said, we need to do a better job here in the US of identifying actual physical abuse, and removing children from the home where abuse is occurring. There is a sickening amount of real abuse that goes on, still, and social services is often either slow or powerless to act. Focusing on this would be a better use of resources, IMO, than trying to ban spanking altogether.

I have been involved in dozens of abuse cases. I could be at a house for something completely unrelated to the child and notice things that set off alarms in my mind. Kids flinching when they hear a door closed, a kid sitting off to himself while his brother is playing a video game.. there are a lot of signs to look for. I didn't have any problem taking kids from homes when I had enough information available on site that the child was being abused. I took a few dozen kids over a 13 year period.

 

[ApharmdX]

I have been involved in dozens of abuse cases. I could be at a house for something completely unrelated to the child and notice things that set off alarms in my mind. Kids flinching when they hear a door closed, a kid sitting off to himself while his brother is playing a video game.. there are a lot of signs to look for. I didn't have any problem taking kids from homes when I had enough information available on site that the child was being abused. I took a few dozen kids over a 13 year period.

That's to your credit. And I'm not saying social services is entirely to blame, just as an FYI. They are often understaffed, underfunded, and have a huge case load.

Of the kids that you took, any idea how many of them were placed back into the parent's home? Because that's the complain I hear often, is that children are taken because of abuse or neglect, but the court places them back with the parents and the cycle continues.

 

[Cocaloch]

Posting for context:

-Spanking remains extremely popular here in America. In a 2013 poll, 81% of respondents said that it is sometimes appropriate to spank children.
-Spanking is legal in all 50 states and Washington, DC.
-90% of the world's children live in countries where corporal punishment is legal.

Spanking here in the US and most of the world is going nowhere soon. It's popular and has deep roots in American society.

That said, we need to do a better job here in the US of identifying actual physical abuse, and removing children from the home where abuse is occurring. There is a sickening amount of real abuse that goes on, still, and social services is often either slow or powerless to act. Focusing on this would be a better use of resources, IMO, than trying to ban spanking altogether.

Take this, and change the word children to women. Do you still feel comfortable with that? That was the law of the land for a very very long time.

 

[BlackGoku03]

Doesn't the thread title specifically refer to physical punishment? We seem to be getting away from that with some people trying to semantically find the line where it becomes a tap on the bottom to get a child's attention.

But there are people in this thread that say a smack on the bottom, wrist, or hand is the same as a beating. They equate that to be abuse. I don't necessarily agree. But I don't agree that it should be used as the "go to" solution.

As I said earlier, parents have to vary their discipline techniques so kids don't expect the same punishment.

 

[televator]

Doesn't the thread title specifically refer to physical punishment? We seem to be getting away from that with some people trying to semantically find the line where it becomes a tap on the bottom to get a child's attention.

Yeah, it seems like people are peddling back to making it as though you were taping them on shoulder or nudging them. Responsible corporal punishment. Like responsible gun owners. It’s everyone else who fucks it up... until you are.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

I guess if your 3 year old is advocating the genocide of an entire race then maybe you should hit them. Definitely.

If I ever catch my kid reading 'Baby's first Mein Kampf' you can bet I'm putting their head through the roof.

 

[Allonym]

So, you're suggesting parents wait until the situation is resolved, they calm down, and then they hit the child?

I sincerely hope I'm not the only person who is creeped out by this kind of suggestion. Please don't hit your kids. I can understand, but do not condone, that a parent might lose control and lash out in the heat of the moment. But this cold-blooded and deliberate infliction of unnecessary pain is quite chilling.

I'd rather my parent discipline me for what I did rather than getting beaten because of what I did and having to deal with their emotional response to it, which if you're getting your ass whooped is likely anger. I've seen it and wouldn't want that done to me. Punishment for what I did and nothing more. My thought on discipline does just that. It's fine if some of you don't agree and I never made the case for what happened to me being justifiable for every other parent and child. Talking doesn't work in all cases with kids in my experience and observation.

Gaf is a funny place sometimes; some people on here advocate for physically harming people for their beliefs, misdirection and even the things they sometimes say but disciplining a child for misbehaving is somehow much worse.

 

[Grug]

Gaf is a funny place sometimes; some people on here advocate for physically harming people for their beliefs, misdirection and even the things they sometimes say but disciplining a child for misbehaving is somehow much worse.

Well firstly, GAF isn't a hive mind. If you are going to play the hypocrisy card, you'd need to actually find individuals who fit the bill.

And no-one here is saying that disciplining a child is bad, it's a discussion on what types of discipline are appropriate or not, effective or not, ethical or not.

 

[RDreamer]

Gaf is a funny place sometimes; some people on here advocate for physically harming people for their beliefs, misdirection and even the things they sometimes say but disciplining a child for misbehaving is somehow much worse.

You don't see the difference between possibly harming a full grown adult that has made the decision to advocate for the genocide of other humans and hurting a defenseless child that both can't understand and looks to you for their protection, safety, and to learn how to interact with humanity plus almost all available research says it has a negative effect on that human going forward?

Yes, hitting a child for misbehaving is 'somehow' much worse than punching a full grown nazi. Come on, this isn't even close.

There are legitimate arguments to why we shouldn't punch nazis, but seriously this isn't a comparison you should be making here.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

Let's replace the word kids with something else.

Physical punishment for employees? Does it work?

Physical punishment for co-workers? Does it work?

Physical punishment for life partners? Does it work?

Physical punishment for prisoners? Does it work?

Physical punishment for bosses? Does it work?

Physical punishment for one-night-stands? Does it work?

Seriously, kids are the only ones in society who can't protect themselves, and yet they are the only ones a significant portion of society think it's okay to physically hurt.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

Take this, and change the word children to women. Do you still feel comfortable with that? That was the law of the land for a very very long time.

It's been said many times, but you gotta stop equating kids to full grown humans and animals. That really just makes people roll their eyes because it's always a false equivalency. The best way to push your argument is by focusing on the effects on actual children and the future effects.

 

[Grug]

Take this, and change the word children to women. Do you still feel comfortable with that? That was the law of the land for a very very long time.

And the justifications were often the same.

"Women can get hysterical sometimes and unable to listen to reason. A sharp slap is often effective and necessary, they need to know who is in charge etc etc."

 

[Grug]

It's been said many times, but you gotta stop equating kids to full grown humans and animals. That really just makes people roll their eyes because it's always a false equivalency.

Is it? They're still human. Just more vulnerable, impressionable and unable to seek redress if they feel the treatment is excessive.

If anything, that is more reason to hold back physically, not less. Not that you need more reasons. Don't physically hurt people unless it is self defence.

 

[tonysidaway]

One point I keep bringing up but is completely ignored is that of the fact that ANY punishment can lead to similar outcomes as spanking your kid be it screaming at your kid too much, putting your kid in time out too much/too long, or shaming them for their actions.

I may not have addressed you specifically, but I certainly haven't been too shy to say on this thread that I don't find punishment a very useful tool in childrearing and I don't think I ever did anything my kids would perceive as punishment. We argued with them a hell of a lot, changed our minds a lot, changed their minds a lot, and basically never stopped communicating with them. It was a two-way process, although it was understood that there was a parental veto.

But that's an argument for another thread. The item on the agenda for this thread is whether hitting kids is acceptable. The laws in my country are slowly being tightened up on that question. In the sixties when I was a child, corporal punishment was a celebrated feature of childhood, and the violence-obsessed teacher was a stock feature of comedy shows like Whacko. The culture has changed, and so slowly is the law. There's even a possibility that Scotland will outlaw parental smacking soon, and I look forward to the day when it's no longer legal in the UK.

 

[RDreamer]

And the justifications were often the same.

"Women can get hysterical sometimes and unable to listen to reason. A sharp slap is often effective and necessary, they need to know who is in charge etc etc."

It's masculine authoritarianism run amok. It's about keep control at all costs, not teaching and learning.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

And the justifications were often the same.

"Women can get hysterical sometimes and unable to listen to reason. A sharp slap is often effective and necessary, they need to know who is in charge etc etc."

Do we give women time outs? Do we ground women and forbid them from seeing their friends or leaving the house? Other forms of discipline don't sound a lot better in the context of an adult relationship. I'm not sure the comparison can be made.

 

[RDreamer]

Do we give women time outs? Do we ground women and forbid them from seeing their friends or leaving the house? Other forms of discipline don't sound a lot better in the context of an adult relationship. I'm not sure the comparison can be made.

We don't now, but yes those things actually were done when men were in absolute control of their wives even as recent as a few decades ago.

 

[ApharmdX]

Do we give women time outs? Do we ground women and forbid them from seeing their friends or leaving the house? Other forms of discipline don't sound a lot better in the context of an adult relationship. I'm not sure the comparison can be made.

It's been said many times, but you gotta stop equating kids to full grown humans and animals. That really just makes people roll their eyes because it's always a false equivalency. The best way to push your argument is by focusing on the effects on actual children and the future effects.

Exactly.

Men and women are both adults, with equal rights and responsibilities. Equal agency. It's not an equivalent comparison to compare women with children, or women with animals.

 

[tonysidaway]

I liked how my parents did it lol. We got the choice of a quick spanking or a tablespoon of the spiciest horseradish sauce I can remember.

So you ended up with a wasabi fetish. Thanks, Mum!

Spoiler

J/K

 

[LordKasual]

This is some flat earth, climate change is a lie, anti-vaxxer stuff right here.

Wow, quite the false dichotomy you've established there.

The thread isn't about choosing between hitting your kid or total laissez faire non-discipline of your child.

It's about physical methods of discipline vs non physical methods of discipline.

Holy shit. Please, take one semester of psychology or something. Seriously, if you go to University to study psychology, it'll quite literally be part of your psych 101 class.

Please.

Proving that you can achieve the same disciplinary effects without the use of physical punishment does not prove that physical punishment doesn't work. It obviously does, otherwise we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

The problem with this argument is the bias of people suggesting that it's absolutely positively wrong, under any and all circumstances, to cause physical pain to a child for disciplinary reasons. And seeing that we're talking about psychology, there are plenty of reasons why it's silly to take a rigid, absolute stance like this on such a complex issue.

For example, this sometimes goes beyond simple disciplinary action itself. I know kids who's parents were deliberately tough on them when it came to punishment because the environment they grew up in simply did not treat soft kids kindly, and the outside pressure to participate in "delinquent" activities has punishments that are worse than in other, more well-off neighborhoods. My own parents definitely went through this, and although i was far better off growing up than my parents were, they did the same to me and my siblings. If you personally never grew up in such an environment, and instead in one where there's no reason to ever escalate to violence, then physical punishment will sound completely unnecessary to you because you wouldn't know any better. But like in so many of these GAF arguments, people just love to argue from these unrealistically ideal viewpoints about human issues that isn't always as simple as black and white. Life doesn't work that way and children aren't raised in research controlled environments.


Now, none of that is to say that the same lesson couldn't have been taught without getting physical with your child, or that this is the only (or even most optimal) way to discipline/raise a child. But it's just something you should maybe consider before you point fingers and call well-meaning parents child abusers because they hit their children.

 

[F34R]

That's to your credit. And I'm not saying social services is entirely to blame, just as an FYI. They are often understaffed, underfunded, and have a huge case load.

Of the kids that you took, any idea how many of them were placed back into the parent's home? Because that's the complain I hear often, is that children are taken because of abuse or neglect, but the court places them back with the parents and the cycle continues.

Yeah, DSS here is definitely understaffed and underfunded. They also had an idea that they were in charge of EPC (emergency protective custody). Being an officer, it is my job to see if the kid was in danger, and if so, take the child into custody, and turn said child over to the Department of Social Services. It is their job to place the child into foster care or family relative or friend that can be verified. Parents are given a safety plan of things they need to follow. It's basic things explaining what their rights are in regards to their children at this point. Then we have 48hrs until a court hearing has to be made. I'll have to explain what reasons I had for removing the children. All the info is presented to a judge. The parents can have an attorney for their "defense" so to speak. Judge will determine whether the EPC was done within reason, and whether the child/children can be placed back in the custody of the parent(s). Every time I did it, there was sufficient cause for the EPC and it took a year for the parents to get their kids back after adhering to all the guidelines DSS/Judge issued. That was the earliest time. Some never lived with their biological parents and were put in custody of their grandparents, brothers/sisters of the mother. None of them were permanent in states custody.

 

[Allonym]

Well firstly, GAF isn't a hive mind. If you are going to play the hypocrisy card, you'd need to actually find individuals who fit the bill.

And no-one here is saying that disciplining a child is bad, it's a discussion on what types of discipline are appropriate or not, effective or not, ethical or not.

I specifically said some people on here, I never said everyone on here. People don't seem to understand the terrible things that some kids do. If my child pours boiling hot water on a person I am beating their ass, if my child punches someone in their face unprovoked to get some laughs in with their friends, I'm beating their ass. A lot of problems happen from kids not being disciplined. You all feel like talking works, sure go ahead. I won't say that you're wrong or saying your lack of action is producing monstrous children, that's your take on parenting. I'm of the opinion that you are communicating to children that there are no consequences for their actions.

I would warn the child first and if they repeated the things they were warned about, they will be disciplined. You're also wrong , there are plenty of people saying that disciplining children is wrong/bad.