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Digital Foundry: GT Sport vs Forza 7

I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Basically

Visuals = GTSport

Features = Forza


GT has a stronger car detail, lighting solution and shadow implementation, but Forza has more cars to render on screen at a time, more dynamic effects during races and such.

I give it a wash
 
T

thuway

Member
You know what's crazy- barely any one is talking about GT Sport's HDR implementation. The HDR sample video that's provided by Digital Foundry .net or even the YT Video is absolutely incredible.
 
nekkid

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
jett said:
That was an impressively comprehensive video.

It's interesting to see what different corners are cut in each game.

Forza 7 has semi-dynamic time of day, but time only moves forward as you progress through the race (for some reason), and all of the environmental shadows are static.

GTS has fully real-time shadows and more impressive global illumination with set day times to choose from, but no dynamic time of day changes.

Then there's funny stuff like GTS reusing the exact same reflections on the player car for all cars, no matter where they might be in the track.

In the end, what I'm left with that is that I'm really impressed with how GTS looked like in the video. Maybe one day when the thing actually gets enough content it'll be a worthwhile purchase.
Click to expand...

They’ve built a damned fine engine on which to build an actual GT, that’s for sure.
 
L

LordOcidax

Member
Details + lighting = GT wins.
Resolution/IQ = Forza Wins.

Is a draw guys.... 😂😂😂😂😂. Amazing job DF.
 
Xcell Miguel

Xcell Miguel

Gold Member
jett said:
Then there's funny stuff like GTS reusing the exact same reflections on the player car for all cars, no matter where they might be in the track.
Click to expand...

It's an old trick used in many games since years, even in Forza 7 (and before), despite what John says in this video (you can even see it at the end...).

Many Codemasters games used this too, and some Need for Speed.

What's funny is that it was only noticed with GTS (and previous GT did too).
 
breakfuss

breakfuss

Member
I mean...GT obviously looks better. That's indisputable. Doesn't mean the series hasn't utterly bored me since GT4.
 
P

pottuvoi

Banned
Forza used classic floating lines to fight Z-fighting artifacts.

Pretty sure GT uses a good precomputed radiance transfer to get good ambient lighting and shadows to cars.
 
P

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Is the Xbox One X that powerful? They said the GTX Titan XP running it at native 4k with all settings on max is comparable.
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO said:
PS3/360 were equal last gen yet PS3 games looked significantly better. Sony got technical talent that Microsoft just can't match.
Click to expand...

i think the SPU's had a lot to do with that, the cell giving the RSX GPU cycles helped a lot in exclusive games like God of War 3 and Ascension, Detroit, Killzone and the like.

But even then with GT, Forza on last gen was clearly far superior performance wise compared to GT, which shows Polyphony stretched themselves thin in many ways

breakfuss said:
I mean...GT obviously looks better. That's indisputable. Doesn't mean the series hasn't utterly bored me since GT4.
Click to expand...

Well GT has bored me since since 5, but i think that has more to do with my exasperation with "sim racers", more than anything else. Not to say PD hasnt dropped the ball
 
Fredrik

Fredrik

Member
Great comparison DF! While I think it’s a bit unfair to not give GTS the crown this time since it's clearly looking better in general I’m still super-impressed that Turn10 managed to squeeze this much good looking content in a 2 year dev cycle. The odd reality is that Turn10 will most likely have another chance to surpass GTS visually with FM8 before these two giants does another simultaneous release like this.
GTS>FM7
GTS<FM8
GT7 vs FM9, can’t wait to see who wins that one!
 
D

danowat

Banned
Talking purely about visuals, GTS has the edge, it looks more dynamic and realistic.

That's not to say FM7 looks bad, because it doesn't, it looks pretty amazing.

Now, if companies could stop spending so much time on the visuals and give us a decent 'game' to go with it....
 
T

thuway

Member
c0de said:
In many things, yes. This doesn't mean it looks a generation ahead at all, though, like it was mentioned in the other thread.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Neither game is some quantum leap over the other, but I do think this needs to take note: GT: Sport has been crucified in the visuals department from all sides from an embarassing "work in progress" gameplay reveal trailer to a poor default camera to a rather optimistic Forza 7 unveil. Through the months - Gran Turismo Sport; to a lot of people, was going to lose this comparison in every respect.

For GT: Sport to win this one in many of the categories- it's an incredible feat and shows just how far a game can come from a reveal trailer.
 
1

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
As someone who likes a good sense of speed I think the differences in focal point distances and the resulting higher sense of speed in Forza is interesting.
That would definitely be a factor for me.

I have played the GTS beta and on 65" the image quality is at a point where I don't have any reasons to complain. Even compared to native 4k games I played on the same TV I wouldn't say I am missing out when it comes to clarity.
The only thing that really stood out for me visually were cardboard foliage and weird looking collisions.

I have no interest in sim racers, so I was just in it for the visuals and what blew me away was the lighting and HDR in GTS. Thats really something else. Easily the best implementation I've seen, probably comes down to the realistic look, while games like Horizon ZD, Ratchet&Clank etc. have stylized looks.


I haven't seen Forza 7 in person but from what I've seen here and elsewhere the only area where it really has the visual edge is resolution. And this advantage ultimately doesn't translate into a visual edge.
While GTS' advantages in detail, lighting and off track details translate into a considerable visual edge.
 
H

Hoo-doo

Banned
ponpo said:
Is the Xbox One X that powerful? They said the GTX Titan XP running it at native 4k with all settings on max is comparable.
Click to expand...

No. The Titan X is a ~12TFLOP card and the i7-5820K is also leagues above what you'll find in the X1X.

So the comparison is kinda awkward from the get-go, but they apparently based it off of footage of the X1X version.
 
J

jett

D-Member
GSY Miguel said:
It's an old trick used in many games since years, even in Forza 7 (and before), despite what John says in this video (you can even see it at the end...).

Many Codemasters games used this too, and some Need for Speed.

What's funny is that it was only noticed with GTS (and previous GT did too).
Click to expand...

the mo you know
 
B

BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO

Junior Member
Inuhanyou said:
i think the SPU's had a lot to do with that, the cell giving the RSX GPU cycles helped a lot in exclusive games like God of War 3 and Ascension, Detroit, Killzone and the like.

But even then with GT, Forza on last gen was clearly far superior performance wise compared to GT, which shows Polyphony stretched themselves thin in many ways
Click to expand...
Yup, I always thought that the SPUs allowed to it actually catch up with the 360 GPU because the SPU could do GPU things, taking a load off of PS3's ass GPU. And yeah but GT looked waaaaayyyyyyyyy better imo, they were super ambitious to the point where Kaz(?) was saying the models were already PS4 level.
 
A

Aaron D.

Member
Upinsmoke said:
GTS is superior in every facet bar resolution. Even though it was a pro vs high end pc. Shame EG couldn't call it how it is in the final summary. Called it down the middle, when it's anything but.
Click to expand...

LQWjPGr.jpg
 
T

thuway

Member
N7.Angel said:
So GTS is superior to almost everything besides resolution, interesting, I thought F7 would look better...
Click to expand...

The bigger story to me- is just how convinced many were that Forza was going to outright demolish Gran Turismo based on cherry picked YouTube videos from older builds whilst using camera angles that were unflattering. When the final game hit- it became increasingly clear, Gran Turismo had made multiple improvements all around.

The biggest shock to me, however, is the HDR. The HDR implementation is just so good- it's literally a reference point.
 
Q

Qassim

Member
Excellent video, I really like the emphasis on what trade-offs are made to achieve certain effects, how each team optimised for 60fps.

It's definitely a toss up in many regards, I do agree that it does feel like Forza is the more conservative game vs GT's ambition and that gives GT some more striking effects (I adore the night effects, e.g. illuminated particles and details in the distance), but I really appreciate the stability of Forza's image - I do think the artefacts in GT around shadows, trees, etc are a bit off-putting.

I probably won't play GT sport until I decide to replace my PS4 with a Pro for TLOU2 and RDR2, but I'm looking forward to it nonetheless. It does feel like Polyphony are bringing it back after what I felt was a lack of quality in the PS3 games.
 
D

Diablohead

Member
I don't agree with the forza 7 trees being ok, they are a huge step back from what forza 5 and 6 were doing and just look a bit low quality from all angles, I know this video was 7 v gts but it would have been nice to mention that stuff in 6 was better, track detail, grass, stuff like that.

The gts reflections being shared over all the cars in a race has been a thing since gran turismo 3 on ps2, interesting that they still use that method after all these years but it works.
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO said:
Yup, I always thought that the SPUs allowed to it actually catch up with the 360 GPU because the SPU could do GPU things, taking a load off of PS3's ass GPU. And yeah but GT looked waaaaayyyyyyyyy better imo, they were super ambitious to the point where Kaz(?) was saying the models were already PS4 level.
Click to expand...

Of course then we had to balance that out by that whole "GT PS3 is using PS2 car models" controversy. Their work ethic seemed to be all over the place in terms of how they used rendering assets. Either they went above and beyond or didn't even try

Of course balancing out once again, its funny to see even after the mocking they faced with Forza 5, Forza is still using 2d sprites for their crowds
 
B

BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO

Junior Member
Hoo-doo said:
No. The Titan X is a ~12TFLOP card and the i7-5820K is also leagues above what you'll find in the X1X.

So the comparison is kinda awkward from the get-go, but they apparently based it off of footage of the X1X version.
Click to expand...
Yeah true but that doesn't mean that the game was designed to take advantage of the Titan X. I know for horizon 3 Max settings was basically a XB1 settings iirc. A Ti according to some gaffer here can actually do 8k Max at around 40-45 fps. If Forza wasn't so urgh on PC, 4K XB1X settings would be possible on a 580.
 
Q

Qassim

Member
ponpo said:
Is the Xbox One X that powerful? They said the GTX Titan XP running it at native 4k with all settings on max is comparable.
Click to expand...

No, Forza 7 on the PC doesn't scale all that high. Possibly not to noticeably outshine (outside of higher framerate and resolution options) a new console launch sold almost entirely on its power.

There'd be a fair amount of headroom on that Titan XP even at native 4K, max settings.
 
N

N7.Angel

Member
thuway said:
The bigger story to me- is just how convinced many were that Forza was going to outright demolish Gran Turismo based on cherry picked YouTube videos from older builds whilst using camera angles that were unflattering. When the final game hit- it became increasingly clear, Gran Turismo had made multiple improvements all around.

The biggest shock to me, however, is the HDR. The HDR implementation is just so good- it's literally a reference point.
Click to expand...

I really like the HDR implementation as well during the beta on my OLED TV, I was sure to take Forza 7 with the X and not GTsport ( I didn't want to have two racing games ) but I think I'll take both this time, win/win situation for me.
 
B

BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO

Junior Member
Inuhanyou said:
Of course then we had to balance that out by that whole "GT PS3 is using PS2 car models" controversy. Their work ethic seemed to be all over the place in terms of how they used rendering assets. Either they went above and beyond or didn't even try

Of course balancing out once again, its funny to see even after the mocking they faced, Forza is still using 2d sprites for their crowds
Click to expand...
They had a quantity over quality thing going on. The fact that GT boss is so snooty about GT upsets me. Like this is an artistic creative Industry but there is no excuse for drive club and GT not sharing the same assets. That's how Forza gets a lot done. Two teams making different games, using the same assets. We need a GT spin-off done by a different team to speed Dev up because the difference in graphics between GT:S and Forza 7 is not worth the 4 year wait.
 
N

Noobcraft

Member
Both look great, especially for 60 fps titles that run on 4 year old hardware. I'd have liked to see performance of both on base consoles though. Most players are going to be using those to play these games.

Overall GT Sport has the edge in graphics. The material work and car models are better. It's just a shame there are so few unique models and so many vision GT cars, and that there aren't more tracks/weather variations available.
 
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