IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.
It's a way to divest the shame and guilt of being sexually assaulted while trying to regain some agency in their own lives. It's an actual defense mechanism to the crippling issues that bombard victims of sexual abuse.
It doesn't have to make sense on paper, it's literally a thing that happens all the time to people in disadvantaged positions and minorities.Exactly. If she is so horrified and disgusted by his actions why would she get into a consensual physical relationship with him afterwards? It just doesn't make sense.
Intention is key.
He intended to get into a shower naked with a woman who had not consented to it.
That's sexual assault.
Well then, way to show your true colors. I'm clearly wasting my time here. I wonder if you'd understand if you were in her shoes
This here.
Do people really not understand this phenomenon? Have so many people not known a victim of ... anything? Have so many people not at least read about victims?
Way to go Klepek for getting the SCOOPS. Dude's a badass, doing actual investigative reporting on shit that matters.
Second, I love GAF, been coming here for almost a decade. Its been an amazing place to come read about games, insight into the industry, and other's thoughts/opinions. I can't remember how many times I've come here and learned some hot news a week before a major news site picks it up. Like any forum, the strength lies in the community. Time will tell if GAF has the strength to rise again, I suppose. Its a bummer to think of this place becoming a ghost town.
My thoughts on this debacle are.. COME THE F' ON! I'm glad Klepek wrote the piece and shined some more light on the story.
It went from #metoo, I was sexually assaulted by evilore and everyone get their pitchforks shined up, TO
They are travelling together, sharing hotel rooms, getting lit. She had a boyfriend!!! (But at the same time, admittedly polyamourous, in an open relationship....so yeah, the boyfriend aspect has about zero relevance) and there was obviously some kind of relationship between the two, likely coupled with a good amount of sexual tension. They both get drunk, she goes to shower and "maybe leaves the door open partway" which could be interpreted a few different ways, (not saying it was supposed to be an invitation, but they're drunk and staying in a hotel room together here, could be easily misinterpreted) and dude tries to make an ill-thought-out move (sure, it was a little over the top way to break the ice) and she says no. He leaves.
Then the bombshell - "oh we had sex a few months later as I continued to travel with him." Oh, ok. Must have been a really horrible experience there a few months back. (Whoever claimed this is like a domestic violence victim coming back to her abuser - get real. Domestic victims come back to their abusers because of the long standing circle of abuse - the abuser has all the power, has stripped the victim of their self-worth and independence - financially and by cutting them off from their friends/family. Kids are often involved. They come back because the whole abuse cycle is designed to break them down, leaving is hard as fuck financially, and there are legit fears of violence to self/kids if they try to walk away. This woman has her own life, career, circle of friends/family/boyfriend and could've walked away at any point and never talked to this guy again. Not even remotely similar situation.) This makes me believe this whole interaction was no big deal when it happened, maybe even laughed about the next morning, and over the passage of time and a soured relationship, it becomes something else entirely.
When the whole story comes out, this seems more like someone who wanted to join the #metoo movement and came up with a salacious, half-truth of a story to join the club.
Don't think for a minute that I am an apologist for sexual offenders, I work in the court system and when someone goes to the pen for a sexual assault it FEELS GOOD. Fuck people that truly sexually victimize others, and part of me hopes they themselves get victimized behind bars to know what it feels like.
This though...c'mon.
Bringing me to my last point, BRING BACK OFF-TOPIC FORUMS. Talk like this has no business in a forum dedicated to video games
It doesn't have to make sense on paper, it's literally a thing that happens all the time to people in disadvantaged positions and minorities.
Your logic is what others in the past foolishly used to criticize women who remain in violent relationships. That line of thinking was incorrect then and it's incorrect now. Read up on the experiences of women in these situations and then you'll see what the dynamic actually looks like.
So what? Innocent until proven guilty also applies to her. Is that supposed to be some bombshell?He has accused the accuser of bringing him and a friend to people that drugged him and attempted to rape and abduct him and his friend.
You forget about Evilores power move?And if you described the men in those relationships they are all dominant males.
They wouldn't back away when asked. They want to assert control.
Evillore backed the fuck away.
Stop trying to shit whatever failed notions of criminal psychology you have into something that again. Is not the same thing.
You forget about Evilores power move?
Re read what I said please. I wasn't passing judgment on EL with that statement. Just highlighting the psychology of people in abusive relationships and why it's a fallacy to assume that assault victims would never later pursue a relationship of some form with their abusers.And if you described the men in those relationships they are all dominant males.
They wouldn't back away when asked. They want to assert control.
Evillore backed the fuck away.
Stop trying to shit whatever failed notions of criminal psychology you have into something that again. Is not the same thing.
You could excuse pretty much any instance of sexual harassment or assault by that logic. Randomly grabbing women by the pussy, groping them, kissing them, exposing yourself to them, sending dick picks, initiating sexual conversations... it might work sometimes, so it's just a "bold play", not harassment! The fact she later had a (allegedly one-off) consensual sexual encounter with him doesn't erase the previous non-consensual conduct.Yeah I do know them. Good rebuttal. Passive aggressive turd seems to be in vogue these days.
I'm telling you I don't see this as a sexual assault.
Because if I did I wouldn't be here.
I see this as an absolute failure in judgement brought along by booze and whatever chemistry they did or whatever evillore perceived they had.
He made a play and it was a bold play a really awkward play.
Naked Man. It wasn't very effective.
She said go away he went away.
Leupp said that, at the time, she was polyamorous and in an open relationship with a boyfriend, but the open part of her relationship was exclusive to women, not men. Leupp said her boyfriend knew and trusted Malka.
The two continued to hang out, according to Leupp, because she attributed the incident to him "being drunk that one night." They talked about how what happened was "not okay," and he seemed receptive to the feedback.
This is addressing your claim that the precedence is for criminal claims to be first addressed. He is the one that has made criminal claims.So what? Innocent until proven guilty also applies to her. Is that supposed to be some bombshell?
Exactly. If she is so horrified and disgusted by his actions why would she get into a consensual physical relationship with him afterwards? It just doesn't make sense.
Re read what I said please. I wasn't passing judgment on EL with that statement. Just highlighting the psychology of people in abusive relationships and why it's a fallacy to assume that assault victims would never later pursue a relationship of some form with their abusers.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say exactly with the dominant male bit.
wait so this incident happened which apparently was super appalling...then they had sex later on?
that pretty much changes everything IMO
IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.
It's a way to divest the shame and guilt of being sexually assaulted while trying to regain some agency in their own lives. It's an actual defense mechanism to the crippling issues that bombard victims of sexual abuse.
I am dealing with that in saying that it's a thing that happens often and it doesn't negate non-consent.
Yeah I do know them. Good rebuttal. Passive aggressive turd seems to be in vogue these days.
I'm telling you I don't see this as a sexual assault.
Because if I did I wouldn't be here.
I see this as an absolute failure in judgement brought along by booze and whatever chemistry they did or whatever evillore perceived they had.
He made a play and it was a bold play a really awkward play.
Naked Man. It wasn't very effective.
She said go away he went away.
Way to go Klepek for getting the SCOOPS. Dude's a badass, doing actual investigative reporting on shit that matters.
Second, I love GAF, been coming here for almost a decade. Its been an amazing place to come read about games, insight into the industry, and other's thoughts/opinions. I can't remember how many times I've come here and learned some hot news a week before a major news site picks it up. Like any forum, the strength lies in the community. Time will tell if GAF has the strength to rise again, I suppose. Its a bummer to think of this place becoming a ghost town.
My thoughts on this debacle are.. COME THE F' ON! I'm glad Klepek wrote the piece and shined some more light on the story.
It went from #metoo, I was sexually assaulted by evilore and everyone get their pitchforks shined up, TO
They are travelling together, sharing hotel rooms, getting lit. She had a boyfriend!!! (But at the same time, admittedly polyamourous, in an open relationship....so yeah, the boyfriend aspect has about zero relevance) and there was obviously some kind of relationship between the two, likely coupled with a good amount of sexual tension. They both get drunk, she goes to shower and "maybe leaves the door open partway" which could be interpreted a few different ways, (not saying it was supposed to be an invitation, but they're drunk and staying in a hotel room together here, could be easily misinterpreted) and dude tries to make an ill-thought-out move (sure, it was a little over the top way to break the ice) and she says no. He leaves.
Then the bombshell - "oh we had sex a few months later as I continued to travel with him." Oh, ok. Must have been a really horrible experience there a few months back. (Whoever claimed this is like a domestic violence victim coming back to her abuser - get real. Domestic victims come back to their abusers because of the long standing circle of abuse - the abuser has all the power, has stripped the victim of their self-worth and independence - financially and by cutting them off from their friends/family. Kids are often involved. They come back because the whole abuse cycle is designed to break them down, leaving is hard as fuck financially, and there are legit fears of violence to self/kids if they try to walk away. This woman has her own life, career, circle of friends/family/boyfriend and could've walked away at any point and never talked to this guy again. Not even remotely similar situation.) This makes me believe this whole interaction was no big deal when it happened, maybe even laughed about the next morning, and over the passage of time and a soured relationship, it becomes something else entirely.
When the whole story comes out, this seems more like someone who wanted to join the #metoo movement and came up with a salacious, half-truth of a story to join the club.
Don't think for a minute that I am an apologist for sexual offenders, I work in the court system and when someone goes to the pen for a sexual assault it FEELS GOOD. Fuck people that truly sexually victimize others, and part of me hopes they themselves get victimized behind bars to know what it feels like.
This though...c'mon.
Bringing me to my last point, BRING BACK OFF-TOPIC FORUMS. Talk like this has no business in a forum dedicated to video games
Way to go Klepek for getting the SCOOPS. Dude's a badass, doing actual investigative reporting on shit that matters.
Second, I love GAF, been coming here for almost a decade. Its been an amazing place to come read about games, insight into the industry, and other's thoughts/opinions. I can't remember how many times I've come here and learned some hot news a week before a major news site picks it up. Like any forum, the strength lies in the community. Time will tell if GAF has the strength to rise again, I suppose. Its a bummer to think of this place becoming a ghost town.
My thoughts on this debacle are.. COME THE F' ON! I'm glad Klepek wrote the piece and shined some more light on the story.
It went from #metoo, I was sexually assaulted by evilore and everyone get their pitchforks shined up, TO
They are travelling together, sharing hotel rooms, getting lit. She had a boyfriend!!! (But at the same time, admittedly polyamourous, in an open relationship....so yeah, the boyfriend aspect has about zero relevance) and there was obviously some kind of relationship between the two, likely coupled with a good amount of sexual tension. They both get drunk, she goes to shower and "maybe leaves the door open partway" which could be interpreted a few different ways, (not saying it was supposed to be an invitation, but they're drunk and staying in a hotel room together here, could be easily misinterpreted) and dude tries to make an ill-thought-out move (sure, it was a little over the top way to break the ice) and she says no. He leaves.
Then the bombshell - "oh we had sex a few months later as I continued to travel with him." Oh, ok. Must have been a really horrible experience there a few months back. (Whoever claimed this is like a domestic violence victim coming back to her abuser - get real. Domestic victims come back to their abusers because of the long standing circle of abuse - the abuser has all the power, has stripped the victim of their self-worth and independence - financially and by cutting them off from their friends/family. Kids are often involved. They come back because the whole abuse cycle is designed to break them down, leaving is hard as fuck financially, and there are legit fears of violence to self/kids if they try to walk away. This woman has her own life, career, circle of friends/family/boyfriend and could've walked away at any point and never talked to this guy again. Not even remotely similar situation.) This makes me believe this whole interaction was no big deal when it happened, maybe even laughed about the next morning, and over the passage of time and a soured relationship, it becomes something else entirely.
When the whole story comes out, this seems more like someone who wanted to join the #metoo movement and came up with a salacious, half-truth of a story to join the club.
Don't think for a minute that I am an apologist for sexual offenders, I work in the court system and when someone goes to the pen for a sexual assault it FEELS GOOD. Fuck people that truly sexually victimize others, and part of me hopes they themselves get victimized behind bars to know what it feels like.
This though...c'mon.
Bringing me to my last point, BRING BACK OFF-TOPIC FORUMS. Talk like this has no business in a forum dedicated to video games
It does in a court of law, as this poor life choice would provide the reasonable doubt that a defense needs to make make its case.
But you knew this already.
Sàmban;252771148 said:Stockholm syndrome. It doesn't make any fucking sense but it's true. In this particular situation, it is hard to tell whether this was the case. I'm not sure that some dude you were drinking with joins you in the bathroom naked, you tell him to leave, he leaves...is enough to develop Stockholm syndrome. It's possible that the nature of their relationship was more toxic/abusive than either of them have revealed and she very well could have developed some bizarre attachment to him
Sàmban;252771148 said:Stockholm syndrome. It doesn't make any fucking sense but it's true. In this particular situation, it is hard to tell whether this was the case. I'm not sure that some dude you were drinking with joins you in the bathroom naked, you tell him to leave, he leaves...is enough to develop Stockholm syndrome. It's possible that the nature of their relationship was more toxic/abusive than either of them have revealed and she very well could have developed some bizarre attachment to him
You could excuse pretty much any instance of sexual harassment or assault by that logic. Randomly grabbing women by the pussy, groping them, kissing them, exposing yourself to them, sending dick picks, initiating sexual conversations... it might work sometimes, so it's just a "bold play", not harassment! The fact she later had a (allegedly one-off) consensual sexual encounter with him doesn't erase the previous non-consensual conduct.
Whatever it is, I refuse to believe that. It is not like she was kidnapped, or anything similar.
Way to go Klepek for getting the SCOOPS. Dude's a badass, doing actual investigative reporting on shit that matters.
(...)
Bringing me to my last point, BRING BACK OFF-TOPIC FORUMS. Talk like this has no business in a forum dedicated to video games
No bullshit.
You're high off your own drama still guy.
Exposing yourself to a woman in.an attempt to get her affections is a bold play.
It doesn't violate her. There's a difference between presenting and asserting.
You could excuse pretty much any instance of sexual harassment or assault by that logic. Randomly grabbing women by the pussy, groping them, kissing them, exposing yourself to them, sending dick picks, initiating sexual conversations... it might work sometimes, so it's just a "bold play", not harassment! The fact she later had a (allegedly one-off) consensual sexual encounter with him doesn't erase the previous non-consensual conduct.
This is like, textbook misuse of the phrase Stockholm Syndrome, two grown adults in a relationship =/= Kidnapping.
Why is OT gone though? What does that have to do with any of the drama?
*snip*
IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.
It's a way to divest the shame and guilt of being sexually assaulted while trying to regain some agency in their own lives. It's an actual defense mechanism to the crippling issues that bombard victims of sexual abuse.
No
No, no, no, no.
Fucking no.
Holy shit no.
This is rape culture shit. This is really fucked up and you need to go think about your life and your morality here.
Exposing yourself is not a bold play. End of story. That's why there are laws against that sort of thing.
Seriously what is wrong with you?
What on earth was she the victim of?You refuse to believe a legitimate psychological defense mechanism that happens in victims of all walks of life?
I mean... ok, you can refuse to believe that but it doesn't make you any smarter or anything.
Because I can assess situations in a nuanced fashion.
I'm not advocating going around showing your cock to people as a general way of greeting.
But you can pretend if you want guy.
I'm saying real assault happens when you removes the victims agency to resist you.
Actual sex attacks. Actual violence.
Read what's going on with the context we already know.
They're in . a hotel alone together. Both wasted. He has feelings and wants to express . them. He's drunk so comes to.the ridiculous idea of getting naked.and.saying "what's up"
She . sees him recoils and asks him to leave..and so he left.
Real assaults are when you don't get an option.
They weren't just hanging out in a cafe. They were alone, in a hotel room, getting drunk together. By any and all definitions, that's a sexually charged setting ripe for a misunderstanding. No matter how comfortable you are with someone as a friend, being alone in a hotel room together is an uncomfortable situation for that reason. This wasn't just a random pussy grab, the way you put it. I wouldn't let my girlfriend share a hotel room with a guy for this exact reason, nor would my girlfriend let me share a room with a woman.
People! their is a justice system to deal with this sort of thing. Just saying. This is a gaming forum now.
What on earth was she the victim of?
In her story, the moment she says no, he backs away.
You tell this story to a 100 adults, and all 100 will laugh, think the girl shot him down, and feel a bit embarrassed for the guy.
You're either inexperienced with the other sex, or you're not being genuine.
No bullshit.
You're high off your own drama still guy.
Exposing yourself to a woman in.an attempt to get her affections is a bold play.
It doesn't violate her. There's a difference between presenting and asserting.
So you could say to a woman "I want to grab you by the pussy" that would be ok to do.
Because there's time for the woman to react adversely or positively.
As opposed to violating her space with your hand and groping. That's assault. As soon as you take the choice away. Its assault.
She had a choice she had a voice. She said . leave. He left.
When you get assaulted you don't have fucking agency to do anything.
Again you're a fucking moron. If I didn't say it before.
Keep getting high off the drama though.
What on earth was she the victim of?
In her story, the moment she says no, he backs away.
You tell this story to a 100 adults, and all 100 will laugh, think the girl shot him down, and feel a bit embarrassed for the guy.
You're either inexperienced with the other sex, or you're not being genuine.
People! their is a justice system to deal with this sort of thing. Just saying. This is a gaming forum now.
Yeah I do know them. Good rebuttal. Passive aggressive turd seems to be in vogue these days.
I'm telling you I don't see this as a sexual assault.
Because if I did I wouldn't be here.
I see this as an absolute failure in judgement brought along by booze and whatever chemistry they did or whatever evillore perceived they had.
He made a play and it was a bold play a really awkward play.
Naked Man. It wasn't very effective.
She said go away he went away.