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[munroe]

As super hero movies go, it was alright, nothing particular special

 

[pramod]

Disney timed its released pretty perfectly. There was very little real competition for it over a month.

 

[AquaticSquirrel]

It was actually one of the better ones which really captures some great moral implications.

It basically did something that Spider-man and Superman do repeatedly but made it far far more relevant.

The premise of black panther and its conflict centers around the same superhero trope..

"With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility"

The difference here isn't about an individual making a conscious choice to save a few people here or there.

This is a country of people making a decision if their self preservation vs their ability to help around the world is an obligation.
The reason this is so relevant is because its actually an allegory for the US.
The US is mightiest economic, military, and social rights power in the world at present.

Is it's the US's responsibility to care for the world or is protecting itself number 1?

If you go saving the world you open yourself up as a target and stretch yourself thin leaving you vulnerable.
If you protect yourself you have to let other fend for themselves and that can and does create terrorist who target you.

The conflict in moral implications and responsibilities of individuals and nations is actually incredibly relevant.
And ultimately it asks the question:
Are people and nations stronger together or are they better off going it alone and protect their self interests?
More importantly the movie doesn't answer that. It centers on one characters decision but it also argues that the previously leaders successfully protect their people and its nation.
It shows how foreigner was able to contribute to their nation while other foreigners raped it, while showing how its own people can turn on each other over differences of opinion.

It was far more relevant than a superhero film deserves to be.

Great points. It's why I never understood why people here and other places say it's just another super hero movie and it doesn't do anything different. The movie and your post clearly shows that it does do different things. Don't see how people can't see that....

Just to clarify, my comment wasn't some backhanded "it's only a superhero film lolol" kind of comment. I genuinely liked the film and I do understand that it had a great impact on people and good messages.

I wasn't trying to downplay it in any way, maybe I'm reading the tone of these replies wrong and if I am I apologize.

 

[mckmas8808]

I thought it was an okay movie ticket, however, i didn’t think it was even the best super hero movie I have watched recently. I feel the novelty of a hero of color in a sea of cookie cutter Caucasian super-heroes played a huge factor in the popularity of the title.

Good for the cast and for the diversification of the genre, but I want to see better, I know they can do better. For example, the antagonist was a badass (as crazy as he is). I wish his character had been explored more.

But had the movie been a bad one, the novelty of a hero of color wouldn't have mattered at all.

 

[Hashmal_Bringer_of_Order]

Also, how many superhero films end with the hero realizing the villain was totally right in his criticism of the hero? Yes, Killmonger's extremes were too much, but he's right that Wakanda shouldn't only be concerned about themselves and should be helping minorities around the world. T'Challa grows as a character at the end because of Killmonger's ideologies. Yes, heroes sometimes sympathize with the villain's motivations (Batman realizing Freeze is trying to save his wife, the friendship between Xavier and Eric) but they don't change their ways of doing things based on the villain's actions. The ending to Black Panther is pretty unique for a superhero film.

That's not how i interpreted the film at all. T'challa comes to these realizations because those close to him hold them and because he personally sees the pain he could help prevent. He's already on the fence about isolationism at the start of the film. Killmonger meanwhile was completely uninterested in helping anyone in the way T'challa decides at the end. All Killmonger wanted was to destroy those he perceived to have wronged him and rule the rest as tyrant. The closest i ever thought T'challa came to sympathizing with Killmonger was that he felt sorry and regretful their fathers had wronged each other personally, and that Erik should have been taken to Wakanda.

 

[Ke0]

Well deserved, it had amazing turn out here in London. I thought it was awesome seeing so many Brits from various African countries show up wearing attire from their homeland. What Marvel created was really awesome when you think about it. And it was legitimately a great movie with a great message, sure the message wasn't really directed or for me, but it was cool to be able to listen to it.

Good stuff all around.

 

[highrider]

It’s definitely at the higher echelon of superhero films. I enjoyed it as much as any with possibly Winter Soldier edging it slightly for superior action sequences.

I accredit it’s popularity to three things.

1. It’s a legitimately high quality film, with a very pertinent message and story.

2. Black People have a film that is finally portraying heroism, nobility, and intelligence of their people. It’s a really important cultural thing that black kids can see this and identity with it.

3. White people want to be cool too. Clearly this was one of those films that grabbed the cultural zeitgeist of the moment, and us whiteys hate being left out. I think for many whites it also represents a clandestine opportunity to show how diverse they are in thought. I remember reading several glowing Facebook posts about the film by some of my more ‘ woke ‘ friends that I couldn’t help but feel were kind of ‘ look at me supporting black peoples! ‘

 

[mckmas8808]

It’s definitely at the higher echelon of superhero films. I enjoyed it as much as any with possibly Winter Soldier edging it slightly for superior action sequences.

I accredit it’s popularity to three things.

1. It’s a legitimately high quality film, with a very pertinent message and story.

2. Black People have a film that is finally portraying heroism, nobility, and intelligence of their people. It’s a really important cultural thing that black kids can see this and identity with it.

3. White people want to be cool too. Clearly this was one of those films that grabbed the cultural zeitgeist of the moment, and us whiteys hate being left out. I think for many whites it also represents a clandestine opportunity to show how diverse they are in thought. I remember reading several glowing Facebook posts about the film by some of my more ‘ woke ‘ friends that I couldn’t help but feel were kind of ‘ look at me supporting black peoples! ‘

Now I'm a black man, but lets be more fair to your white brothers and sisters. There is zero percent wrong with wanting to support people of other races. And also it can feel good to see something "different" on the screen. One of the reasons why I loved Girls Trip was because it was a funny movie lead all by women. It felt new and refreshing. Never overlook how watching something new can make someone feel excited.

 

[highrider]

Now I'm a black man, but lets be more fair to your white brothers and sisters. There is zero percent wrong with wanting to support people of other races. And also it can feel good to see something "different" on the screen. One of the reasons why I loved Girls Trip was because it was a funny movie lead all by women. It felt new and refreshing. Never overlook how watching something new can make someone feel excited.

That’s a good point, but I can’t say I agree. There have been many films with heroic black leads, I really think this was a highly politicized film, not only for black peoples, but also self identifying progressive whites. The amount of virtue signaling around this film was off the chart with whites.

Also at no point did I suggest there was something wrong with supporting other races, not really a relevant point.

 

[mckmas8808]

That’s a good point, but I can’t say I agree. There have been many films with heroic black leads, I really think this was a highly politicized film, not only for black peoples, but also self identifying progressive whites. The amount of virtue signaling around this film was off the chart with whites.

Also at no point did I suggest there was something wrong with supporting other races, not really a relevant point.

Okay but was the interest in this movie by progressive whites there because they felt like they wanted to be apart of something huge that hasn't been done before with people of a different race? Because I'll say this.....if I heard a bunch of LGBT people say that a movie that represented them made them cry and feel super proud of who they were was to be made by Hollywood, I'd be curious to see it too as a straight male. I'd honestly want to know why they felt that way. Besides it being a Marvel movie of course.

WHOA!!! Just thought of something. What if Marvel made a lead character of their future movies gay or lesbian? Is there a character in the Marvel universe that is gay?

 

[royox]

Is there a character in the Marvel universe that is gay?

Wasn't one of the Spidermans that's not Peter Parker a gay boy?

 

[Phoenix RISING]

WHOA!!! Just thought of something. What if Marvel made a lead character of their future movies gay or lesbian? Is there a character in the Marvel universe that is gay?

IceMan. America Chavez. Shatterstar.

Most are hoping for Hulkling and Wiccan since they're the Young Avengers, and he way that the MCU is panning out right now might open the door for them (romance between Vision and Scarlet Witch).

It’s definitely at the higher echelon of superhero films. I enjoyed it as much as any with possibly Winter Soldier edging it slightly for superior action sequences.

I accredit it’s popularity to three things.

1. It’s a legitimately high quality film, with a very pertinent message and story.

2. Black People have a film that is finally portraying heroism, nobility, and intelligence of their people. It’s a really important cultural thing that black kids can see this and identity with it.

3. White people want to be cool too. Clearly this was one of those films that grabbed the cultural zeitgeist of the moment, and us whiteys hate being left out. I think for many whites it also represents a clandestine opportunity to show how diverse they are in thought. I remember reading several glowing Facebook posts about the film by some of my more ‘ woke ‘ friends that I couldn’t help but feel were kind of ‘ look at me supporting black peoples! ‘

#3 is refreshing in a world where Stephon Clark makes the next headline.

 

[theignoramus]

It’s definitely at the higher echelon of superhero films. I enjoyed it as much as any with possibly Winter Soldier edging it slightly for superior action sequences.

I accredit it’s popularity to three things.

1. It’s a legitimately high quality film, with a very pertinent message and story.

2. Black People have a film that is finally portraying heroism, nobility, and intelligence of their people. It’s a really important cultural thing that black kids can see this and identity with it.

3. White people want to be cool too. Clearly this was one of those films that grabbed the cultural zeitgeist of the moment, and us whiteys hate being left out. I think for many whites it also represents a clandestine opportunity to show how diverse they are in thought. I remember reading several glowing Facebook posts about the film by some of my more ‘ woke ‘ friends that I couldn’t help but feel were kind of ‘ look at me supporting black peoples! ‘

I get that. What I dont get is the film doing numbers in red states or Ben Shapiro, who trolled the film relentlessly before release, coming out as a fan of it.
(I personally feel Shapiro traffics in anti-Black antagonism to remain relevant)

 

[TheMikado]

I get that. What I dont get is the film doing numbers in red states or Ben Shapiro, who trolled the film relentlessly before release, coming out as a fan of it.
(I personally feel Shapiro traffics in anti-Black antagonism to remain relevant)

It’s because the film is so incredibly complex it correctly frames the issues of what red state Americans perceive.

They have superior culture and wealth and technology. Should they protect themselves and their own or share it and open themselves up to harm.

The film never truly says which is right or wrong just that different people historically made different decisions. If I’m in a red state I’m seeing myself and the US as Wakanda ( which is an achievement unto itself) and I’m am agreeing with some of the “hero” characters on their stances of interaction with the rest of the world.

The ending strongly implies that Wakanda as a country will pay dearly for opening up to the rest of the world and for red states is a perfect example of what they feel could happen in the US. Wakanda ironically become red Americans mirror.

 

[theignoramus]

It’s because the film is so incredibly complex it correctly frames the issues of what red state Americans perceive.

They have superior culture and wealth and technology. Should they protect themselves and their own or share it and open themselves up to harm.

The film never truly says which is right or wrong just that different people historically made different decisions. If I’m in a red state I’m seeing myself and the US as Wakanda ( which is an achievement unto itself) and I’m am agreeing with some of the “hero” characters on their stances of interaction with the rest of the world.

The ending strongly implies that Wakanda as a country will pay dearly for opening up to the rest of the world and for red states is a perfect example of what they feel could happen in the US. Wakanda ironically become red Americans mirror.

Interesting, and it gels with what Breitbart's reviewer said about the movie and how he feels the film is echoing MAGA (shudders)

 

[TheMikado]

Interesting, and it gels with what Breitbart's reviewer said about the movie and how he feels the film is echoing MAGA (shudders)

It kinda does though and it pretty much asks the question. If you (whoever you might be) were the ones with power, money, and technology would you want to protect yourself and your people and would it be wrong.

The film basically frames their positions as not inherently wrong or racist which is why it’s got such rave reviews from white nationalists because black Panther is essential a country of black nationalists and emphasizing the need for “cultural” self preservation. It ironically frames their positions as “not wrong” and “justified”.

And they believe that the hero’s bleeding heart will eventually endanger the entire country which of course is pretty much a certainty and they get to say look his ancestors were right.

 

[LordPezix]

it wasn't good, wasn't bad, ... but it wasn't good.

 

[highrider]

it wasn't good, wasn't bad, ... but it wasn't good.

Naah it was good, but not great. My only real criticism I can generate is it felt over-acted at times, and the characters beyond Killmonger weren’t particularly interesting or compelling. I also think that Forest Whittaker and Angela Basset sort of felt like redundant characters that were unnecessary and didn’t add anything. I wanted to know more about the female leads, they were all pretty cool and I wanted to see more of them. And the action was nowhere near the level of Winter Soldier, it could have been much better because the cast are very good physical actors.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I get that. What I dont get is the film doing numbers in red states or Ben Shapiro, who trolled the film relentlessly before release, coming out as a fan of it.
(I personally feel Shapiro traffics in anti-Black antagonism to remain relevant)

No doubt. V.I.C.T.I.M.M.E.N.T.A.L.I.T.Y

 

[LordPezix]

Naah it was good, but not great. My only real criticism I can generate is it felt over-acted at times, and the characters beyond Killmonger weren’t particularly interesting or compelling. I also think that Forest Whittaker and Angela Basset sort of felt like redundant characters that were unnecessary and didn’t add anything. I wanted to know more about the female leads, they were all pretty cool and I wanted to see more of them. And the action was nowhere near the level of Winter Soldier, it could have been much better because the cast are very good physical actors.

Man, I just cannot get on the killmonger bandwagon, I thought he was terrible. Would've preferred to see more of the claw dude. I really wanted it to be good, I like the black panther guy, and the actor that played the rhino captain but Idk, just thought it was executed poorly.

 

[highrider]

Man, I just cannot get on the killmonger bandwagon, I thought he was terrible. Would've preferred to see more of the claw dude. I really wanted it to be good, I like the black panther guy, and the actor that played the rhino captain but Idk, just thought it was executed poorly.

I can’t even say he was all that great, the part itself was pretty ham fisted, but he was an interesting character and I thought Michael B did a lot with it, gave him a emotional resonance.

 

[manfestival]

It's so crazy how much money marvel and disney make off of these things. DC and Warner bros be crying. Though marvel seems to pump one success after another

 

[Razorback]

Honestly, I don't really have a theory that explains why this became so successful.

It's not a famous superhero, so why did it sell more than the famous ones? Genuine no fucking clue.

 

[mckmas8808]

It kinda does though and it pretty much asks the question. If you (whoever you might be) were the ones with power, money, and technology would you want to protect yourself and your people and would it be wrong.

The film basically frames their positions as not inherently wrong or racist which is why it’s got such rave reviews from white nationalists because black Panther is essential a country of black nationalists and emphasizing the need for “cultural” self preservation. It ironically frames their positions as “not wrong” and “justified”.

And they believe that the hero’s bleeding heart will eventually endanger the entire country which of course is pretty much a certainty and they get to say look his ancestors were right.

I agree with you, except the movie does clearly say that the mindset of the past were wrong and need to change. Not everybody in Wakanda will agree of course, but the new King clearly sees the ways of the past as bad. It's represented in how his cousin was treated, but then you can extrapolate that out to the rest of POC in the world and see how much Wakanda could have helped.

I can’t even say he was all that great, the part itself was pretty ham fisted, but he was an interesting character and I thought Michael B did a lot with it, gave him a emotional resonance.

I thought he was one of the best villians in superhero movie history. Not "the" best, but one of. And I'm not the only one that feels this way. Many people are feeling the way I do about Killmonger.

Honestly, I don't really have a theory that explains why this became so successful.

It's not a famous superhero, so why did it sell more than the famous ones? Genuine no fucking clue.

Well first of all because it was a really good movie (even if you take out the fact that it has superhero characters).

 

[TheMikado]

I agree with you, except the movie does clearly say that the mindset of the past were wrong and need to change. Not everybody in Wakanda will agree of course, but the new King clearly sees the ways of the past as bad. It's represented in how his cousin was treated, but then you can extrapolate that out to the rest of POC in the world and see how much Wakanda could have helped.

But that's not what the movie actually says. It makes a case for outreach, but never portrays the ancestors as evil, even though T'Chaka kills his own brother. The way the movie ends is that they are just beginning their outreach and leaves the audience to imagine what's next. Will they help bring good around the world, or will they bring trouble and war to Wakanda? It doesn't show Wakanda and the world 10 years into the future and everyone living in harmony and that's the important part. Whether the ancestors were right to protect themselves from the world is yet to be revealed.

The movie doesn't frame either as necessarily morally superior either. I think the movie does show the obvious "right" thing to do is to help and perform outreach. However, the movie strikes the right cords in stating you don't get to "do good" without a cost and sacrifice. That was the setup, but the end result and sacrifice hasn't been explored yet. We only got a partial glimpse of the internal sacrifice and casualty this can cause, the conflict hasn't even made it beyond Wakanda's borders yet. Ultimately, and I think this is the right call, doing the "right thing" comes at tremendous sacrifice and loss. It's not a free or easy path and you need to be prepared for the tremendous sacrifice that comes with it. Being given and open and outreach is not the easiest of paths, but it is the most noble and if the next movies are anything like this it will show some very real costs and heartache based on the decision T'Challa makes to reach out to the world. I think there will be moments when he doubts himself and his decisions and when those around him do as well, but I ultimately believe the subsequent movies will show him rising about and making ultimate sacrifices.

More ironically then all that is that when this happens he will become a red state hero as they see themselves as struggling to do the "right thing" in a modern world and feel they've sacrificed much in the process.

 

[Razorback]

Well first of all because it was a really good movie (even if you take out the fact that it has superhero characters).

How does that explain anything? Good movie = makes lots of money? Is that really how you think this works?

 

[mckmas8808]

How does that explain anything? Good movie = makes lots of money? Is that really how you think this works?

That is the starting point yes. It's not the only reason. Clearly it being a Marvel movie, being a different type of superhero movie that deals with real world issue, having a cast that looks different from any super-hero movie ever, great promo, etc helped.

But all of that wouldn't have mattered if the movie sucked.

 

[Razorback]

That is the starting point yes. It's not the only reason. Clearly it being a Marvel movie, being a different type of superhero movie that deals with real world issue, having a cast that looks different from any super-hero movie ever, great promo, etc helped.

But all of that wouldn't have mattered if the movie sucked.

Yes, the cast and African centric story is the defining thing that separates this from the other Marvel movies, so that's the obvious place to look at why it was such a massive success.

That's the surprise. African themes are bigger than Batman and the Avengers? That doesn't really map with what I understand of the world, but ok I'll update my beliefs and look for further evidence.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes, the cast and African centric story is the defining thing that separates this from the other Marvel movies, so that's the obvious place to look at why it was such a massive success.

That's the surprise. African themes are bigger than Batman and the Avengers? That doesn't really map with what I understand of the world, but ok I'll update my beliefs and look for further evidence.

Not just African themes. But themes that black people can relate and understand. But it's good that you are going to update your understanding of the world because honestly, I'm hoping many Hollywood execs do the same thing and update their understanding of the world too.

I hope they don't just think this is a one-off and can never be done again.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Yes, the cast and African centric story is the defining thing that separates this from the other Marvel movies, so that's the obvious place to look at why it was such a massive success.

That's the surprise. African themes are bigger than Batman and the Avengers? That doesn't really map with what I understand of the world, but ok I'll update my beliefs and look for further evidence.

It's a Marvel Movie. Hype Hype Hype Hype Hype.
It delivered and sold in the U.S. Success is contagious.
Art imitates life, it's unique and it brought new perspectives and narratives without feeling forced.

 

[pramod]

I think I can make a safe prediction now: Infinity War will not be able to surpass BP in domestic box office. Worldwide maybe, but not domestic. There is just too much competition in the summer and BP had a full 2 months with almost zero competition.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

I think I can make a safe prediction now: Infinity War will not be able to surpass BP in domestic box office. Worldwide maybe, but not domestic. There is just too much competition in the summer and BP had a full 2 months with almost zero competition.

I'm not so bold to say that IW will never pass BP domestically, but I will say that it will be tough. Deadpool 2 is May 18. IW will have a three-week head start, but that's all it took for BP to reach $1B.

 

[mckmas8808]

I think I can make a safe prediction now: Infinity War will not be able to surpass BP in domestic box office. Worldwide maybe, but not domestic. There is just too much competition in the summer and BP had a full 2 months with almost zero competition.

I think you are right! Besides I also think there will be a small percentage of people that don't want to see or just aren't interested in seeing two Marvel movies within 2 months.

 

[TrainedRage]

Eh, this means literally nothing to me.

 

[manfestival]

I enjoyed the movie more than Titanic. Whatever that means to anyone. Felt like the movie was the middle ground of super hero movies.

 

[Deleted member 713885]

I expected it too.

Every single black dude I know in in RL and Facebook saw it more then once.

My one buddy, no joke, went 6 times.

I, as a white dude, haven't seen a movie more then once since...Goonies when I was 7 lol

 

[Lokimaru]

And I still haven't seen it.

 

[goldenpp72]

And I still haven't seen it.

Are you proud or?

 

[kunonabi]

I expected it too.

Every single black dude I know in in RL and Facebook saw it more then once.

My one buddy, no joke, went 6 times.

I, as a white dude, haven't seen a movie more then once since...Goonies when I was 7 lol

I used to rewatch movies like crazy but not so much anymore. I saw the prequels, monkey trouble, and home alone 10+ times each. I saw the first avengers, man on fire, and There Will Be Blood 3 times each. Now, 2 times is usually the most ill see something since I'll take my dad the second time. I am catching Black Panther a second time though as part of my MCU rewatch.

 

[Sàmban]

Eh, this means literally nothing to me.

lol yes it does; you wouldn’t be telling us how much you literally don’t care if it didn’t

 

[TrainedRage]

lol yes it does; you wouldn’t be telling us how much you literally don’t care if it didn’t

Please can you tell me how I feel about the movie? You seem to have a good grasp on what I'm thinking. Did I like it?

 

[TheShadowLord]

it comes out next month so I'll buy the blu ray version anyways. Haven't been a theater for almost six years and I don't think I'm missing out going to one either.

 

[pramod]

If you were to tell me 10 years ago that Marvel would make a Black Panther movie and it would make more money than Titanic and gross over a billion dollars worldwide I would have said you were high on something. But that's just how amazing an accomplishment the MCU is. When even a B-level superhero like BP or Doctor Strange or Guardians can easily top the box office like it was nothing. It just blows my mind.

 

[TrainedRage]

If you were to tell me 10 years ago that Marvel would make a Black Panther movie and it would make more money than Titanic and gross over a billion dollars worldwide I would have said you were high on something. But that's just how amazing an accomplishment the MCU is. When even a B-level superhero like BP or Doctor Strange or Guardians can easily top the box office like it was nothing. It just blows my mind.

I think it's more shocking that audiences still eat this shit up, even though MCU movies have a similar plot and characters.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

If you were to tell me 10 years ago that Marvel would make a Black Panther movie and it would make more money than Titanic and gross over a billion dollars worldwide I would have said you were high on something. But that's just how amazing an accomplishment the MCU is. When even a B-level superhero like BP or Doctor Strange or Guardians can easily top the box office like it was nothing. It just blows my mind.

I mean, there's being a smashing box office success and then there's charting up there with the likes of Star Wars, Titanic, and Avatar.

 

[mckmas8808]

I think it's more shocking that audiences still eat this shit up, even though MCU movies have a similar plot and characters.

Nah they really don't man.

 

[TrainedRage]

Nah they really don't man.

You could be right I haven't seen them all but I imagine it goes.... Guy assumes power, people get mad, guy tries to fight for what is good, bad guy wants the opposite, they fight, good guy wins.

 

[TrainedRage]

I mean, there's being a smashing box office success and then there's charting up there with the likes of Star Wars, Titanic, and Avatar.

But Titanic and Avatar were complete shit, so I don't know what that proves besides the power of the hype train.

 

[Sàmban]

Please can you tell me how I feel about the movie? You seem to have a good grasp on what I'm thinking. Did I like it?

Overwatch is a great game but I don’t care much for it. You don’t see me going into a thread talking about overwatch’s awesome sales to say how much I literally don’t care about it.

People who have an axe to grind are the ones that do that. They usually think they’re really sleek and totally not transparent too. Like, just the fact that you gave enough of a shit to tell us how much you don’t care and can’t seem to grasp the irony in that is fucking hilarious.

 

[TrainedRage]

Overwatch is a great game but I don’t care much for it. You don’t see me going into a thread talking about overwatch’s awesome sales to say how much I literally don’t care about it.

People who have an axe to grind are the ones that do that. They usually think they’re really sleek and totally not transparent too. Like, just the fact that you gave enough of a shit to tell us how much you don’t care and can’t seem to grasp the irony in that is fucking hilarious.

I don't give a fuck how much the movie made. Yeah. I will stand by that. Tehehehe. HILARIOUS!!!!!!!